Getting into PC gaming

[LordMastodon]

1 hour ago, CUDA_Cores said:

OH my god, do you know ANYTHING about buying last-gen older but still faster hardware?

 

 A really shitty CPU you say, we'll then let's check some benchmarks shall we:

 

Xeon W3570:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+W3570+%40+3.20GHz&id=1271

 

Intel i5-2400:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-2500+%40+3.30GHz

 

From the benchmarks it looks like they are both neck-and neck.

 

2. About the RAM. No you wouldn't need to buy new RAM. RAM speeds do not have to match when you upgrade. Its just that the computer will downclock the 1333mhZ RAM down to 1066. While 11GB of RAM is something that should be avoided, it absolutely can be done. In fact the system I am typing this on has 7GB of RAM in the form of 3x1GB sticks and 1x4GB stick. In nearly every computer I have worked with you can mix-and-match RAM capacities, latencies, and speeds. It's just that the computer will run all your RAM at the lowest speeds and take a small performance hit in the process. As far as the impact of RAM speed on games, it's not that much as shown by a video linus made in 2013:

 

3. As far as the graphics goes: We don't currently HAVE any benchmarks (or evidence in any form) that the RX 470 performs better than the R9 280X. Once We see some concrete benchmarks from tech reviewers I cannot recommend a card to anyone because I don't KNOW how it will perform yet. As far as the claim that the R9 280X is a slow pile of crap because it is two generations old, let's check some benchmarks again shall we:

 

http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-960-vs-AMD-R9-280X/3165vs2192

 

From the benchmarks it looks like it is around 18% faster than a GTX 960, and it costs less than a GTX 960. As far as recommending an RX 470 goes. IF there had been confirmed un-biased benchmarks out from tech reviewers of the card AND it was available to buy TODAY, yes I would've recommended the RX 470. But since the RX 470 isn't out on the market yet, I can't recommend it as I have no idea how it will perform. 

 

4. The case: The reason I chose to buy an old dell machine like this is because it is much cheaper to do so. With a budget of I would say under $600, your primary concern should be the absolute best performance/dollar. If you honestly care about how your computer looks, go buy an apple product. Now as far as the motherboard goes, why don't we look at another one of linus's videos on this:

If you watched the video, then you would notice that motherboards have very little impact on performance. So basically any motherboard that will fit the parts in question should work fine, even if it is a bottom-of-the-barrel motherboard. It will still get the job done and do it nearly as well as the more expensive motherboards.

 

5. HERE is where the claim or a killer rig comes into place. Even with this computer containing much older hardware than what OP is suggesting, my suggested rig will still beat it out in the benchmarks:

 

First let's focus on the pentium CPU: 

 

Pentium G4400 benchmark:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Pentium+G4400+%40+3.30GHz

 

Xeon W3570 benchmark:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+W3570+%40+3.20GHz

 

Now I'm no expert with numbers, but i think 6246 for our Xeon is indeed better than 3678.

Now the GPU:

 

GTX 950 vs R9 280X:

http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-950-vs-AMD-R9-280X/3510vs2192

 

Again, the R9 280X is 41% faster than the originally suggested GTX 950.

 

As far as RAM speeds go, yes I will admit here 1066 is slower than 1600MHz RAM. But again I will point to the video above of linus testing RAM speeds in games and how it showed very little impact in performance. RAM speed should come as a second priority. 

 

6. Upgradablility:

 

Here is where I admit you are (somewhat) correct. Yes it IS true that building a PC from an old workstation lacks a few of the perks that you will get from building an entirely DIY PC. Then only two downsides to doing this is that the Motherboard and case are proprietary and cannot be swapped out for anything new but that is it, everything else can be reused. 

 

Now as far as upgrading in the short-term goes, there is more room for upgrades than you may think. First of all, yes there is a limit to a max of 24GB of RAM. But judging by the fact that most budget rigs these days are using 8GB of RAM and how that hasn't changed in years, 24GB should be just fine for the long-term.

 

As far as upgrading the CPU, yes you would only be able to upgrade to other LGA 1366 CPUs. Although judging by passmarks site, there are actually a very wide range of LGA 1366 CPUs to choose from. You need to consider that there are not just i7-1st GEN CPUs OP could upgrade to, but also a wide range of Xeon CPUs OP can use instead. 

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/socketType.html#id4

 

In fact here's another example of a good upgrade OP could make down the line. OP could upgrade that Xeon W3570 to a xeon X5680 to get performance on-par with a core-i5 6600K:

 

Xeon X5680:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+X5680+%40+3.33GHz&id=1312

 

i5-6600K:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-6600K+%40+3.50GHz

 

AS far as I know, most people say that nearly all games will be fine these days with an i5-6600K. And since the Xeon X5680 performs on-par with a 6600K, I would say OP could extend the life of the computer more than you think. 

 

7. Being suspicious of my post? 

 

OK why the hell would you think that? If I was indeed some guy posting those ebay listings then:

 

1. WHY are they listed under different seller names? someone isn't going to have 27 seperate ebay accounts just for this one purpose, that would be absolutely stupid.

 

2. IF I was indeed someone on ebay trying to get people to buy my junk, then why did I also recommend buying a few new PC parts to put in the rig too? If I really was a scammer or something then I would've put everything from an ebay listing and not just a few things.

 

3. I have over 2100 posts and that means According to the forum I am somewhat reputable. Also, IF I was indeed a scammer or something I would've been caught a VERY long time ago by one of the mods and banned. Since I am still here with over 2,100 posts, it should serve as enough proof that all I am really trying to do is help others out and get the absolute best performance/dollar by going used. 

 

The point of this:

 

The point of this build I was trying to make is that you can get significantly more performance/dollar by buying older but still faster computer hardware and building that instead. By the benchmarks I showed above what I am trying to prove is that if one is on a tight budget it is always a good idea to try to buy a mix of new/used parts in order to get the best performance possible and that is what I was trying to prove with the build I did above. I am not trying to scam anyone and I have no affiliation with ebay. I have been building computers for friends for years and many of them that are on a very tight budget we always buy used PC parts. We do this to get the absolute best performance/dollar with the little money my friends have just like OP. Although again if you do not believe me that older tigher-tier hardware can still be faster than newer, lower-tier hardware, let's take a look at one of linus's videos about building a new vs used PC:

 

If you watched the video, then you would notice that the used PC performs better than any of the new PC builds that were suggested on this forum. This is all I was trying to do. Give OP a good computer with the absolute best performance/dollar for what little money he has. If OP still wants to go with the pentium/GTX 950 rig that's fine. All I was trying to do here was give OP a build using used PC parts that would still perform better than the pentium/GTX 950 rig originally suggested. 

 

The truth is most people don't know about the used PC market and how much more performance one can get by going there. Just look at all the youtube channels that have sprung up recently trumpeting the value that can be found in going used. There are just a few videos on the subject:

 

 

This was all I was trying to do. Suggest a used build in order to extract the most value. If OP still wants to go with a pentium/GTX 950 that is fine, but again as I have said, all I was trying to do is show OP how much performance he can get by going used on a tight budget.

 

35

1. The CPU:

A) You kept switching up which CPU you were talking about, sometimes it was a Xeon W3565 and sometimes a Xeon W3570, and sometimes it was an i5-2400 and sometimes an i5-2500. Not to nitpick, and they all of them did get pretty similar scores on Passmark, but some constructive criticism to pay a bit more attention.

 

When I reported my findings in my earlier post, I was actually going by this website, which in fact said that the i5-2400 was the better choice over the Xeon, and the same website also recommends you get a Pentium G4400 instead of the Xeon.

 

2. The RAM:

While yes, the RAM speeds don't matter much, it's still nice to have it regardless. And yes, it will just lower the speed, so I'd argue you're better off just buying some 1066 RAM that won't suffer the performance hit you talked about in your post.

 

And while 8 GB is the budget option today, the OP specifically wants upgradability and eventually he may decide to get into 3D modelling or video rendering or something similar and save up for more than 24 GB.

 

3. The GPU:

You seem to correct about the R9 280X being better than the RX 470 after further inspection, my apologies. However, the RX 480 is better than the R9 280X from my research, and it's only $50 more, so perhaps the OP could upgrade after a while. Again, I apologize, I did not do my due diligence in this department.

 

4. The Case / Motherboard:

Yes, I know that if you're going for a budget build, you shouldn't worry about the looks too much (one of the reasons I recommend green PCB RAM without a heat spreader in my list), but IMHO, if I had to look at that hideous case for however many years the OP plans on keeping this PC, I'd want to vomit. Also, your comment about Apple having the best-looking computers is quite subjective and I think that you can have Windows computers that look really good, although that's my opinion. Not to mention the fact that in order to upgrade to a new socket type he'd have to change probably at least $100 worth of hardware, not including the new CPU.

 

You are correct in saying that the motherboard does not impact performance at all, but as Linus has said on multiple occasions, it impacts features, which upon further inspection are where this motherboard/case combo really falls short. Note: all of things in the below list of features not present come from the Dell spec sheet itself, which you can find here.

 

    A. No USB 3.0.

    B. SATA 3 GiB/s vs. the 6 GiB/s of my motherboard.

    C. PCIe Gen2 (this article explains why that might be important).

    D. Sometimes with proprietary boards, the Windows versions you can install are limited, and on that spec sheet only versions up to Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit are listed, although I don't know if that necessarily means that you can't install Windows 8.1 or 10.

    E. Many Asus features like Fan Xpert and AISuite, although you can decide if those are actually important to you.

 

5. The Upgradability:

The CPU could be upgraded to a Xeon X5680 in the near future to get performance on-par with an i5-6600k, but the OP has said that he wants to keep his PC, and in a few years when we're on Cannonlake, that X5680 won't look so great, and at that point he will have to upgrade his case, motherboard and CPU in order to keep up with the newest games, something he has also said he doesn't want to do. They may stick to LGA 1151 for Kaby Lake and Cannonlake, which would mean that the OP could upgrade nicely.

 

6. Being Suspicious:

I was suspicious of your post because you seemed to not actually have the OP's best interests in mind while I was reading, although now that you've explained yourself a bit more I can see that I was incorrect in saying that, and I apologize.

[LordMastodon]

Thank you for following me, I'm not really sure what I have done to deserve that.

[LordMastodon]

Just now, CUDA_Cores said:

as this point uggh, I don't care anymore. OP can do whatever he wants. I don't even care if OP spends his PC money on a gigantic potato. I'm leaving this thread to avoid some sort of flame-war.

1

I'm not trying to incite a flame-war, I just don't want any sort of misunderstandings or similar in order to prevent the OP from spending his money on something that he may not actually want.

[LordMastodon]

Just now, CUDA_Cores said:

OK, thanks. 

 

(also as others will tell you on the forum CPUboss is not a very good benchmarking tool. Because according to them a mobile-core i5 chip is faster than an fx-8350 and this simply isn't true)

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-6200U-vs-AMD-FX-8350

2

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know that, thanks for telling me. I'll avoid using CPUBoss in the future, then.

[LordMastodon]

Just now, CUDA_Cores said:

That's okay.

Why did you follow me though? You're definitely the first, and I didn't even know that you could do that until you did.

[LordMastodon]

Just now, CUDA_Cores said:

Its a way of saying to another person "I don't hate you let's be friends lol"

Oh. Well that's good to know.

[Marcoman2]

I thank you both for you contributions to helping me.  I spent about an hour and a half reading this thread.  Having considered both of these options I think I am still going to go with the Pentium predominantly because of the Skylake architecture and the upgrade path it gives.  Being able to keep my motherboard and DDR4 memory is something that is important to me because it saves money in the future (from having to buy new Mobo processor and ram).  I will consider the r9 280x over the gtx 950 and definitely upgrade to the rx480 in the future, but at the momentit depends what kind of deal I can get on the two GPUs.  Thank you both for the help though, my brother built a computer and hasn't been much help so far but this forum has really cleared things up for me.