HTC Vive priced at $799

[raendeu]

I wouldn't mind the price, if the screens wouldn't be in such shit resolution.

After I got used to 4K, seeing the black bars between pixels in VR was like a slap to the face. Considering the price, hell no.

I tested the Vive with Elite Dangerous in 2015 EGX.

[ivan134]

16 minutes ago, Davehaslanded said:

My biggest concern for Vive is in its marketing, its putting all its eggs into full body tracking. I can see 3 reasons this could backfire. 

 

1. People are lazy, and as we learnt from Wii and Kinect, dont want to jump and dance around their room when playing

 

2. Most people really don't have the room for moving around a VR world. Here in the UK, homes are a lot smaller as are most parts of Europe and Asia. There's no point having full body tracking if you only have a few feet to move about in. 

 

3. Most VR games shown off so far have been cross platform between Rift and Vive. AAA title are probably going to support PSVR too. As we've seen with consoles and the Kinect/move previously, devs develop for the lowest common denominator. That's VR with head tracking. Neither the Rift or the Vive currently has body tracking in their first consumer kits. 

Whi is going to release a game that's is cutting off 2/3s of the Market?  

 

It's a great idea, but until it's universally supported on all VR platforms, I can't see it taking off. 

Bruh, the wii outsold the ps3 and xbox 360 combined.

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, Davehaslanded said:

I never said anything about the failure or success of the console. My point is business decision aren't as simple as "sell at a loss, make it back later". These companies are new as you said. But millions has been invested in them, and share holders are going to want to see a return. Not in a few years, but soon. 

 

Thats not how the world really works. I run my own business as photographer. I've reduced prices in the past to encourage a customer that was on the fence, but I've never worked at a loss. I still have a bottom line I need to keep in the black on a yearly basis. 

If I borrow several hundred or thousand pounds from the bank to buy new equipment and then work at a loss, I can't say to them "sorry but I'm building up my profile at the moment and haven't actually made any money, but if you wait, it might pay off in a year or two."

 

Not it how the world works. The world works on profits and revenues. 

That's clearly enough credentials to lecture me about business tactics of course. Sorry but I hate arguments from authority, so I won't bother finding out if what you say makes sense. It probably does, good for you, but you shouldn't have given that condescending, stupid line.

[samcool55]

Well that counts me out for VR for now, time to play the waiting game and see how it goes.

[Davehaslanded]

Just now, ivan134 said:

Bruh, the wii outsold the ps3 and xbox 360 combined.

Sorry. Let me clarify, I didn't mean sales. What I meant was instead of getting up and using the controller as seen in the ads, people soon realised that items just as easy to sit on the sofa and do it. 

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, ivan134 said:

Bruh, the wii outsold the ps3 and xbox 360 combined.

And the Wii U fucking bombed. So the real question is do you think this will be an imaginative product that will capture the imagination of mainstream consumers everywhere? or an impractical hunk of junk that implemented a gimmick badly and died in the water?

 

I know most of you think VR will be the Wii, I think it will be the Wii U. We shall see.

[hph6203]

Sony and Microsoft didn't launch their most recent boxes at a launch, because they determined that the video Game market isn't strong enough to support a launch like that.

 

It took Sony 4 years to turn a profit on each PS3 sold, and Microsoft a year and a half. That's in a mature product space, where R&D costs are likely negligible in comparison to what VR is facing right now. It's unlikely that Oculus and Vive are turning a profit as it is currently, and if they are its negligible in comparison to sunk costs. Make no mistake the VR headsets as they sit right now are likely already at their subsidized costs.

 

I have not yet used a VR headset, but the industry wide perception is that they are amazing and nothing like 3D television. I've seen it first hand as co-workers used something as primitive in comparison as the Samsung Gear VR. This is only the first wave of consumer devices to be released and with massive players like Alphabet (Google), Apple and Samsung already releasing or working on VR headsets it would be a shock if this is just a passing fad.

 

However the only way that the gaming centric headsets are going to survive is if they either reduce their price over time as they achieve economies of scale, or they show utility in the business sector (architecture, landscape design, robotic surgical procedures etc.) that cannot be achieved on the lower end offerings.

[Davehaslanded]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

That's clearly enough credentials to lecture me about business tactics clearly. Sorry but I hate arguments from authority, so I won't bother finding out if what you say makes sense. It probably does, good for you, but you shouldn't have given that condescending, stupid line.

How was I condecending by mentioning what I do? I was simply giving a source of my opinion. My point is I based everything I wrote on real world financials, not some wonderful idea that a business will sell me something on the cheap because I can't afford it. Sorry if that upsets you. I wasn't expecting such an aggressive reply. 

[Misanthrope]

Again you keep assuming this is some highly revolutionary technology that's sooo expensive to R&D for. It's a pair of fucking screens REALLY close to your eyes. That's it really, we had very high DPI screens on cellphones for years.

 

I'm just not seeing the supposedly massive jump in technology here.

[Misanthrope]

4 minutes ago, Davehaslanded said:

How was I condecending by mentioning what I do? I was simply giving a source of my opinion. My point is I based everything I wrote on real world financials, not some wonderful idea that a business will sell me something on the cheap because I can't afford it. Sorry if that upsets you. I wasn't expecting such an aggressive reply. 

It's called arguing from authority and it insults the intelligence of people arguing assuming you don't really have to present a real argument because of your authority on the subject matter, which is also ridiculously irrelevant on the scope of your experience vs a new product on this scale being released.

[ivan134]

7 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

And the Wii U fucking bombed. So the real question is do you think this will be an imaginative product that will capture the imagination of mainstream consumers everywhere? or an impractical hunk of junk that implemented a gimmick badly and died in the water?

 

I know most of you think VR will be the Wii, I think it will be the Wii U. We shall see.

I'm not making an argument for VR. I was arguing agaisnt the notion that people arent into motion gaming. WiiU had nothing to do with motion gaming so I'm not sure why you think its relevant here. Relax bruh. Did VR run over your dog?

[Davehaslanded]

2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

It's called arguing from authority and it insults the intelligence of people arguing assuming you don't really have to present a real argument because of your authority on the subject matter, which is also ridiculously irrelevant on the scope of your experience vs a new product on this scale being released.

Well that's not how I see it. I see it as an opinion on basic business principles source from my own experience actually running a business. That's all. Agree to disagree. 

 

However one one thing I would add to the PS3 comment is I'm not sure what the terms of licence are for Rift and Vive. Anyone who made a PS3 game had to pay Sony a fee to do so. They also had a forecast on sales based on the generation of consoles. I'm pretty sure that VR companies have neither. 

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, Davehaslanded said:

Well that's not how I see it. I see it as an opinion on basic business principles source from my own experience actually running a business.

Your business experience compared to the launch of something as important as a brand new product on consumer electronics is as relevant to the proceedings as the business experience of my 10 year old cousin running his lemonade stand.

[ivan134]

17 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

That's clearly enough credentials to lecture me about business tactics of course. Sorry but I hate arguments from authority, so I won't bother finding out if what you say makes sense. It probably does, good for you, but you shouldn't have given that condescending, stupid line.

Its okay. I can vouch for him that he is right and you are wrong. You definitely dont know how the real world works.

[Misanthrope]

Just now, ivan134 said:

Its okay. I can vouch for him that he is right and you are wrong. You definitely dont know how the real world works.

As we all know, 3 vouches are the equivalent of actually making a logic based argument, so you're getting close I better pack my shit and leave, such rhetoric and argument skills.

[Davehaslanded]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

Your business experience compared to the launch of something as important as a brand new product on consumer electronics is as relevant to the proceedings as the business experience of my 10 year old cousin running his lemonade stand.

Well as I said, agree to disagree. Either way the whole arguments irrelevant. No VR business has chosen to sell at a loss. Personally I'm not surprised or angry at this. I wasn't expecting them too. I've already preordered the rift as I believe it's worth paying the early adopters fee. Luke and Linus have both had positive attitudes towards VR, (both of whom are notoriously skeptic)  

[Davehaslanded]

3 minutes ago, ivan134 said:

Its okay. I can vouch for him that he is right and you are wrong. You definitely dont know how the real world works.

Thank you. Much appreciated b

[jaggysnake57]

oculus doesn't look so expensive now does it.

[Misanthrope]

6 minutes ago, Davehaslanded said:

Well as I said, agree to disagree. Either way the whole arguments irrelevant. No VR business has chosen to sell at a loss. Personally I'm not surprised or angry at this. I wasn't expecting them too. I've already preordered the rift as I believe it's worth paying the early adopters fee. Luke and Linus have both had positive attitudes towards VR, (both of whom are notoriously skeptic)  

To be fair I'm not really "angry" at it, I just find it baffling that they think they can succeed at 800. But I could be wrong and millions could buy the 800 USD koolaid who knows.

[ivan134]

13 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

As we all know, 3 vouches are the equivalent of actually making a logic based argument, so you're getting close I better pack my shit and leave, such rhetoric and argument skills.

Publicly traded companies have an obligation to one and only one group of people: Investors. That's it. No one else. Your average investor does not invest in something where someone tells them "I will make your money back for you with interest in 5 - 10 years." They want their money ASAP. If you cant deliver, they find somewhere else to put their money.

Lets take the crash of 08 for example. Companies should have opted to operate in the red, until people got encouraged to start spending again. Do you know of any corporation that did this? So if they didn't do it when it meant a crash of the global economy what makes you think they would do it in good times?

You're wrong about the ps3. Sony did not make the ps3 expensive with the intention of eating up costs. They were coming off the huge success of the ps2 and grossly overestimated how much people would be willing for a ps3.

[TopDollar]

Better price than I thought. Might have to get both now since steam VR seems a bit more promising.

[Davehaslanded]

1 minute ago, TopDollar said:

Better price than I thought. Might have to get both now since steam VR seems a bit more promising.

Completely agree. I expected the included controllers and body tracking tech to push it up to $1000. 

[dimitriianghelov]

Damn it i was expecting it to be 350$ ,wtf Steam ???!! with all that free money from hats,skins and dota you should sell it at a loss , now VR is ruined , literally

Spoiler

/s

 

[Watermelon Guy]

1 hour ago, Misanthrope said:

I'm calling it now: the VR movement will be priced out of relevance at this rate.

Like 4k, when that was expensive? Or 1440p. New things are expensive when they launch, its the nature of products like this. 

[Watermelon Guy]

Just now, dimitriianghelov said:

Damn it i was expecting it to be 350$ wtf Steam with all that free money from hats,skins and dota you should sell it at a loss , now VR is ruined , literally

  Reveal hidden contents

/s

 

Are you being serious, why the hell would they sell this at a loss, do you have no understanding for how companies work? They make money by selling things. You cant expect something as high end as this, with as much R&D as this to sell for 350$. You insane and quite frankly stupid.