Other sources wrong, Pascal not taped out in June, potentially still in testing

[Jahramika]

Okay Amd said at Ces the target is Before back to school. Another wards on the self for moms and pops to buy for the little kiddies not august or September sometime from now and August/September.

[DocSwag]

20 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Indeed, in the past, NVIDIA has loved dropping new advanced products early, and rubbing it in AMD's face (Eg: 980 Ti and Titan X).

 

The fact that we haven't seen any demos at all, tells me that they're pretty far behind. Unless AMD drops the ball and runs into huge issues fine tuning their chips, they're going to have a huge advantage this year.

 

I've bought both AMD and NVIDIA GPU's, but I'm not a fan of NVIDIA's business practices. I don't want NVIDIA to go away or die or get crushed - but rather, I want AMD to succeed so it pressures NVIDIA to adopt more consumer friendly policies.

 

I also want to see AMD's marketing really take a turn for the positive, because despite having incredibly competitive products in the 300 series vs NVIDIA's 900 series, they sell a tiny fraction of the amount of cards. That makes no sense from a purely price/performance perspective. Many people won't ever even consider an AMD GPU because "they suck" or have "bad drivers" - despite neither being true (Both AMD and NVIDIA have occasional driver problems). It's baffling, but NVIDIA has really marketed themselves so much better.

Exactly my point of view! I hate Nvidia marketing practices! Sure, I know it's part of business, but it still makes me hate them a little bit when AMD open sources all their game dev stuff so that they run equally well on AMD and nvidia while all nvidia game dev stuff is only developed by them so that it runs better on nvidia hardware. AMD 300 series/fury are also great, only nvidia Gpus worth getting right now are probably GTX 980 ti and GTX 950. Even so, often new people to the forum posting on new builds are using stuff like GTX 970 instead of 390 and 960 instead of 380/380x. I hope that RTG can fix this marketing issue. AMDs marketing has just not been that great.

[patrickjp93]

1 hour ago, DocSwag said:

Exactly my point of view! I hate Nvidia marketing practices! Sure, I know it's part of business, but it still makes me hate them a little bit when AMD open sources all their game dev stuff so that they run equally well on AMD and nvidia while all nvidia game dev stuff is only developed by them so that it runs better on nvidia hardware. AMD 300 series/fury are also great, only nvidia Gpus worth getting right now are probably GTX 980 ti and GTX 950. Even so, often new people to the forum posting on new builds are using stuff like GTX 970 instead of 390 and 960 instead of 380/380x. I hope that RTG can fix this marketing issue. AMDs marketing has just not been that great.

For the love of...

 

AMD has only just started doing open source anything, and suddenly they're saints?! What the actual flying f@ck? Intel has been the spearhead of open source for more than a decade and yet it's the bane of people's existences here and around the Internet. How did this happen?

 

Mantle never actually made it either! We have GPUOpen, but that's item number 1! They don't open source much at all. And Intel is still the only one with a fully open source graphics driver until AMD actually does release their full stack to the Linux dev community.

[DocSwag]

1 minute ago, patrickjp93 said:

For the love of...

 

AMD has only just started doing open source anything, and suddenly they're saints?! What the actual flying f@ck? Intel has been the spearhead of open source for more than a decade and yet it's the bane of people's existences here and around the Internet. How did this happen?

 

Mantle never actually made it either! We have GPUOpen, but that's item number 1! They don't open source much at all. And Intel is still the only one with a fully open source graphics driver until AMD actually does release their full stack to the Linux dev community.

I'm not talking about Intel, just AMD and Nvidia.

[Watermelon Guy]

14 hours ago, Jahramika said:

Okay Amd said at Ces the target is Before back to school. Another wards on the self for moms and pops to buy for the little kiddies not august or September sometime from now and August/September.

But AMD has working samples, nvidia does not. 

[asim1999]

I am gonna wait until GTC to make any final judgements 

[patrickjp93]

1 hour ago, DocSwag said:

I'm not talking about Intel, just AMD and Nvidia.

It's an overall thing though. Everyone seems to just irrationally love AMD regardless of the fact all this goody-two-shoes stuff is brand new and we have no way of knowing if they'll really pursue this. It's just aggravating.

 

1 hour ago, Watermelon Guy said:

But AMD has working samples, nvidia does not. 

Engineering samples of their Pascal Tesla are circulating. My school had one in late december along with Knight's Landing and FirePro samples (we're upgrading the Red Hawk Cluster with Broadwell E5 in the next year).

[dalekphalm]

3 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

It's an overall thing though. Everyone seems to just irrationally love AMD regardless of the fact all this goody-two-shoes stuff is brand new and we have no way of knowing if they'll really pursue this. It's just aggravating.

 

Engineering samples of their Pascal Tesla are circulating. My school had one in late december along with Knight's Landing and FirePro samples (we're upgrading the Red Hawk Cluster with Broadwell E5 in the next year).

And how come there hasn't been any news at all of actual engineering samples? You're literally the first I've heard of Pascal anything engineering samples. Not that I doubt your word, but if that was the case, there should have been news stories all over the place covering that.

[Shakaza]

On 2/2/2016 at 2:14 PM, dalekphalm said:

 

I think you two are disagreeing on semantics on this School, in most places (North America in particular), starts first week of September. However, "Back to School" season, at least here in Canada, is considered to start in August - particularly the last two weeks of August, since that's when all the big retailers do their huge back to school shopping/sales push.

So to say they're aiming for Back To School, could very well mean by August, since they'll want to have it on the shelf, ready to purchase, before the end of August.

To add another confusing perspective, where I live, school goes back at early to mid-August, and my university goes back on the latter end of mid-August.

[Jahramika]

Polaris (AMD) confirmed to come Before The Back To School Season For Desktops And Laptops. This is Amd's official statement key words before back to school season. Which mean shopping time so latest July availability release before that.

[Jahramika]

5 hours ago, Watermelon Guy said:

But AMD has working samples, nvidia does not. 

Lol I agree with you

[patrickjp93]

45 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

And how come there hasn't been any news at all of actual engineering samples? You're literally the first I've heard of Pascal anything engineering samples. Not that I doubt your word, but if that was the case, there should have been news stories all over the place covering that.

Have you heard of enterprise clients getting hold of Polaris? Nvidia hasn't done a public demo. I'm not surprised at all enterprise is keeping quiet. They're under NDA from both companies. I never signed one, but I know exactly why it is the HPC professor had to emergency cancel class and cloister himself in Hoyt Hall. The heterogeneous cluster is his baby. I saw the KNL test node since it was already a public item. I didn't have to see inside the other two to know he had them, especially since I asked and he responded with "I can't tell you." Nvidia, even with foundry problems, would put out engineering samples if for no other reason than to keep potential clients waiting for the finished product.

[Jahramika]

8 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

For the love of...

 

AMD has only just started doing open source anything, and suddenly they're saints?! What the actual flying f@ck? Intel has been the spearhead of open source for more than a decade and yet it's the bane of people's existences here and around the Internet. How did this happen?

 

Mantle never actually made it either! We have GPUOpen, but that's item number 1! They don't open source much at all. And Intel is still the only one with a fully open source graphics driver until AMD actually does release their full stack to the Linux dev community.

Do me a favor please make a list of all the open source Amd has done and then nvidia

[patrickjp93]

2 hours ago, Jahramika said:

Do me a favor please make a list of all the open source Amd has done and then nvidia

AMD:

Partial Linux Driver (contains binary blobs still, with a promise to go fully open source)

Mantle

GPUOpen

Linux Kernel Development

 

Nvidia

Linux Kernel Development

Android OS Developer Images (Shield Products mostly)

Moonlight Game Streaming protocol (replaced Limelight)

PhysX

 

By my count it's Nvidia in the lead until AMD delivers on those promises.

[niofalpha]

2 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

AMD:

Partial Linux Driver (contains binary blobs still, with a promise to go fully open source)

Mantle

GPUOpen

Linux Kernel Development

 

Nvidia

Linux Kernel Development

Android OS Developer Images (Shield Products mostly)

Moonlight Game Streaming protocol (replaced Limelight)

 

By my count it's about equal until AMD delivers on its promises.

You forgot PhysX 

https://developer.nvidia.com/physx-source-github

[Jahramika]

3 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

AMD:

Partial Linux Driver (contains binary blobs still, with a promise to go fully open source)

Mantle

GPUOpen

Linux Kernel Development

 

Nvidia

Linux Kernel Development

Android OS Developer Images (Shield Products mostly)

Moonlight Game Streaming protocol (replaced Limelight)

PhysX

 

By my count it's Nvidia in the lead until AMD delivers on those promises.

Lol

[patrickjp93]

Just now, Jahramika said:

Lol

Feel free to contribute to the lists. I'm perfectly willing to have this debate, but I'll admit I actually don't know everything both companies do.

[Jahramika]

For starters Ageia developed Physic x Nvidia bought there tech and slapped it on there's. Serious name something Nvidia developed and gave access to all. Like freesync vs loved g sync. Or Hbm memory tech or Hsa even mantel would be open if they did not drop it since it's basically in Dx12 which is open.

[Jahramika]

Just be honest Nvidia tries to lock Amd at ever turn rather than compete honorably.

[patrickjp93]

11 hours ago, Jahramika said:

For starters Ageia developed Physic x Nvidia bought there tech and slapped it on there's. Serious name something Nvidia developed and gave access to all. Like freesync vs loved g sync. Or Hbm memory tech or Hsa even mantel would be open if they did not drop it since it's basically in Dx12 which is open.

And did Ageia ever open-source it? Did Nvidia never improve upon it? DX 12 is not open you twit. Neither will Vulkan be. Both of them are managed by businesses. One is Microsoft, and the other is the Khronos Consortium. Nvidia did help co-develop HMC which has been deployed for 2.5 years in Sparc Fujitsu servers and will be launching for main system memory for x86 servers in the next 2 years with consumerville to follow later when JEDEC can't replace DDR4 with anything better. FreeSync also isn't open, and Adaptive Sync predated AMD's foray into it. Most of it was in eDP long before DP 1.2 anyway, which was ALREADY developed by VESA.

 

For Pete's sake. Nvidia isn't the devil and AMD is no saint.

 

Nvidia competes perfectly fairly. Just because it decides to MAKE ITS OWN PRODUCTS that work together as a better ecosystem than the open standards can support does not mean it's being unfair. Nvidia is doing nothing wrong. They've also proven Gameworks isn't a hindrance to AMD. Both companies do most of their driver optimization based on the binaries anyway. Just because the raw C/C++ and shader code isn't handed to AMD doesn't mean Nvidia's being any better or worse. You AMD fanchildren need to get over yourselves. Buy the best product for you, but don't go spouting this BS that AMD is somehow THE PREMIER open source company in this mess. They are far from it.

[Sakkura]

 

22 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

Mantle never actually made it either! We have GPUOpen, but that's item number 1! They don't open source much at all. And Intel is still the only one with a fully open source graphics driver until AMD actually does release their full stack to the Linux dev community.

You know the only reason Mantle didn't go open is that they instead handed it over to the Khronos Group to develop Vulkan, right? That also makes your count of pros/cons for AMD and Nvidia misleading - the very graphics API that will fundamentally drive Linux gaming in the future is derived from Mantle.

[Sakkura]

9 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

And did Ageia ever open-source it? Did Nvidia never improve upon it? DX 12 is not open you twit. Neither will Vulkan be.

Vulkan is the successor to OpenGL, and will be just as open. There's a big difference between an open standard and a fully proprietary API like DirectX. It's not a coincidence OpenGL is cross-platform while DirectX only runs on Windows.

[patrickjp93]

43 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

 

You know the only reason Mantle didn't go open is that they instead handed it over to the Khronos Group to develop Vulkan, right? That also makes your count of pros/cons for AMD and Nvidia misleading - the very graphics API that will fundamentally drive Linux gaming in the future is derived from Mantle.

You have no way of determining how much of Mantle is actually in Vulkan, and further you think Intel and Apple couldn't simply make a low-level API from the ground up without Mantle? No, it's not misleading. Mantle doesn't count for AMD, period.

[patrickjp93]

40 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

Vulkan is the successor to OpenGL, and will be just as open. There's a big difference between an open standard and a fully proprietary API like DirectX. It's not a coincidence OpenGL is cross-platform while DirectX only runs on Windows.

It runs on Linux through wine with a minimal performance hit. And again it's not an open standard in any classical sense.

[Humbug]

49 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

You have no way of determining how much of Mantle is actually in Vulkan, and further you think Intel and Apple couldn't simply make a low-level API from the ground up without Mantle? No, it's not misleading. Mantle doesn't count for AMD, period.

 

Of course it could have been done without AMD, but this is how it did pan out...

 

watch below at 1:50

https://youtu.be/QF7gENO6CI8?t=1m50s