Big wifi network advice!

[¨TrisT¨]

Hey! So apparently my school wants students to have internet access on their phones and stuff.

 

 

I'm kinda going in blind here, but I was told that if I connect the ethernet cable that will provide internet to anything will give me one IP only, and I about 800 users have to be able to connect to a network that will give them access to that same internet connection.

 

The way I think is the ideal is to get a powerful smart switch, do DHCP server on it, and connect the internet cable god knows where comes from to it, then connect that switch to multiple access points.

 

I still have to test the bandwidth on the APs so I can know how many I can put "in line", on one CAT6 cable only (sorry for my english), before it starts bottlenecking it. The area of it should be about half a soccer field. I think worst case scenario should be 1200~ users connected. It is not my problem if the bandwidth given by the ISP isn't enough, I just have to make things work flawlessly local network side and get it access to the internet.

 

If the ISP bandwidth is greater than gigabit, and I think they have some sort of "ruler" that separates the initial fiber onto multiple copper gigabit, I could learn to do link aggregation and get through that easy. No one was able to tell me exactly how it works and I was given this task today.

 

So powerful smart switch + APs a good idea? If so, need help on the switch, I was thinking of going with something from routerboard. 

 

Thanks in advance!

[Andrew_C]

You're scaring me dude.. There is a lot to consider here. I'll be honest, I've never planned anything quite so large myself.

 

Just 800-1200 users in a small-ish site, you're gonna need some tasty access points to handle the load/concurrent connections. Also I'd careful with routerboard and how many DHCP leases they can handle, licensing might cripple you. A small dedicated DHCP server might be a better call.

[¨TrisT¨]

What other networking infrastructure does your school have? 800 users in half the size of a soccer field seems like alot. Most of the Routerboard switches don't have POE, which you will absolutely need.

Why not just an injector?

[¨TrisT¨]

You're scaring me dude.. There is a lot to consider here. I'll be honest, I've never planned anything quite so large myself.

 

Just 800-1200 users in a small-ish site, you're gonna need some tasty access points to handle the load/concurrent connections. Also I'd careful with routerboard and how many DHCP leases they can handle, licensing might cripple you. A small dedicated DHCP server might be a better call.

Thanks!

Hopefully it won't be that big, ppl will be scattered around the school so it'll probably be less, but I'm expecting that in the beginning, the hype will mess it up

Do you know if there's any way to like disconnect devices that are not using any > bandwidth from the network? Most phones just do the typical annoying ping to check if the network is up.

Once again thank you for your help.

[KuJoe]

I would recommend an Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch (there are 24 and 48 port PoE versions) that are amazing for the price. I have a EdgeSwitch Lite and EdgeRouter in my cabinet at a local data center for over a thousand clients and they've been running strong without any issues. Ubiquiti also has some amazing APs and their UniFi Controller is amazing for managing APs through-out a whole environment (make the change in the software and it pushes it out to the APs automatically).

 

Linus did a review on one of their really beefy APs a while back but I opted for 2 In-Wall APs for my house and it's amazing being able to stream content from one side of the house to the other without any issues. The software also shows you who is logged into each AP (hostname, MAC, IP, utilization, and more) so it might be helpful for troubleshooting bottlenecks and such.

 

They even have APs specifically designed for schools that have built in intercoms so you can replace your current PA system with them if that's an added bonus for you.

[KraftDinner]

Why not just configure a router with an SSID and preferably using 802.11n or 802.11ac, then place access points around the school providing decent coverage and configure them with the same SSID you configured the router with. The internal IP addresses shouldn't matter as long as you set the internal network to the 10.0.0.0 subnet in your router you will have more than enough internal addresses for everyone. Configure NAT on the router so that all internal addresses are translated into a single public IP. This should get the job done.

[leadeater]

-snip-

 

So I've done a number of wireless deployments in schools using enterprise grade wireless equipment so should be able to provide advice on this. Biggest thing would be budget as to do it properly it will cost a significant amount.

 

Brands to consider would be Aruba, Ruckus and Ubiquiti. Most of my experience is with Aruba but their stuff is on the most expensive side of wireless equipment so be warned if you want to go with them, but they do have the most fully featured management tools and can cater for the most complex setups imaginable. Ruckus controllers are also very good but much more limited than what Aruba offers but also at a much lower cost, ditto this for Ubiquiti but having not used their management software I can't really say how it compares to Aruba.

 

As a general rule for good quality of access plan your AP deployment locations for around 30 users per AP. Any more than this and you will start to have contention issues etc. You can have more users on an AP but only if they are generating very little traffic, like 30 laptops plus another 20 phones.

 

For PoE I highly advise not to buy PoE switches. They require much more power, generate more heat, bigger fans so suck in more dust and fail much quicker. Use what is called a Midspan Injector. They are rack mount, come in 8 ports to 24 ports and the total cost of a switch plus Midspan Injector is less than a PoE switch (bar Ubiquiti their stuff is abnormally cheap).

 

https://www.blackbox.com/store/us/Detail.aspx/802-3af-PoE-Gigabit-Injector-8-Port/LPJ008A-F

https://www.blackbox.com/store/us/Detail.aspx/802-3af-PoE-Gigabit-Injector-24-Port/LPJ024A-F

[¨TrisT¨]

So I've done a number of wireless deployments in schools using enterprise grade wireless equipment so should be able to provide advice on this. Biggest thing would be budget as to do it properly it will cost a significant amount.

 

Brands to consider would be Aruba, Ruckus and Ubiquiti. Most of my experience is with Aruba but their stuff is on the most expensive side of wireless equipment so be warned if you want to go with them, but they do have the most fully featured management tools and can cater for the most complex setups imaginable. Ruckus controllers are also very good but much more limited than what Aruba offers but also at a much lower cost, ditto this for Ubiquiti but having not used their management software I can't really say how it compares to Aruba.

 

As a general rule for good quality of access plan your AP deployment locations for around 30 users per AP. Any more than this and you will start to have contention issues etc. You can have more users on an AP but only if they are generating very little traffic, like 30 laptops plus another 20 phones.

 

For PoE I highly advise not to buy PoE switches. They require much more power, generate more heat, bigger fans so suck in more dust and fail much quicker. Use what is called a Midspan Injector. They are rack mount, come in 8 ports to 24 ports and the total cost of a switch plus Midspan Injector is less than a PoE switch (bar Ubiquiti their stuff is abnormally cheap).

 

https://www.blackbox.com/store/us/Detail.aspx/802-3af-PoE-Gigabit-Injector-8-Port/LPJ008A-F

https://www.blackbox.com/store/us/Detail.aspx/802-3af-PoE-Gigabit-Injector-24-Port/LPJ024A-F

Thx a lot man! 

[¨TrisT¨]

If you want to fill your networking closet with dozens of injectors lying around, go ahead.

 

Again, what networking infrastructure does your school already have? You're also going to have to run ethernet.

I think I like exaggerated by a lot, this is some weird POE bunch of cisco APs that only connect to that one network somehow, and that I supposedly can't configure without being at the main server. Which I can't. So I don't just pull one out of the wall, stick it onto the router/switch and configure it. We also have no manuals so I'm screwed there.

Which means I have to use the internet provided by the isp and do it all myself, without any support from the school network. It wouldn't be too hard to configure some accounts to use that internet if it was connected to the main server, and put some deidcated aps so it wouldn't bottleneck the rest of the network too, but I can't touch the server. So yeah, I'm following leadeater's advice, and probably putting in some speed limits, like enough to do 480p and maybe something like time limits per day if that's possible. What do you think?

[¨TrisT¨]

Why not just configure a router with an SSID and preferably using 802.11n or 802.11ac, then place access points around the school providing decent coverage and configure them with the same SSID you configured the router with. The internal IP addresses shouldn't matter as long as you set the internal network to the 10.0.0.0 subnet in your router you will have more than enough internal addresses for everyone. Configure NAT on the router so that all internal addresses are translated into a single public IP. This should get the job done.

I know all that, that's how I run my personal network. Tho the problem is, this is not my personal network, it's gonna take on a lot more juice than 10 systems connected.

[¨TrisT¨]

I would recommend an Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch (there are 24 and 48 port PoE versions) that are amazing for the price. I have a EdgeSwitch Lite and EdgeRouter in my cabinet at a local data center for over a thousand clients and they've been running strong without any issues. Ubiquiti also has some amazing APs and their UniFi Controller is amazing for managing APs through-out a whole environment (make the change in the software and it pushes it out to the APs automatically).

 

Linus did a review on one of their really beefy APs a while back but I opted for 2 In-Wall APs for my house and it's amazing being able to stream content from one side of the house to the other without any issues. The software also shows you who is logged into each AP (hostname, MAC, IP, utilization, and more) so it might be helpful for troubleshooting bottlenecks and such.

 

They even have APs specifically designed for schools that have built in intercoms so you can replace your current PA system with them if that's an added bonus for you.

Woah, thanks for the info, I'll be looking into that!

[¨TrisT¨]

If you want to fill your networking closet with dozens of injectors lying around, go ahead.

 

Again, what networking infrastructure does your school already have? You're also going to have to run ethernet.

Filling the closet with injectors seems like a better idea than making a switch barbecue.