ATH M-Series Questions

[Philosobyte]

We all know that if you want a flat headphone, Sony MDR-7506 and V6 is pretty much the way to go, and they're only like 85 bucks. 

Yesss this. I have the V6, and its only shortcoming is its soundstage is medium-narrow. But get the V6 over the MDR-7506 - many people think the newer MDR-7506 is less even than the V6. 

 

[CierroMierdo]

You have a point there, graphs and charts can't really make you decide on what you want. Testing them in store is the best option always.

It just comes down to personal preference from there. But to say something is flat when measurements may or may not tell a different story is just a wrong way of saying a particular headphone is flat. Not all ears are the same. Some have a tendency to have impacted ears, having hearing deficiency, sensitive to certain frequencies which may cause irritation (which is why I never liked the T1 as it had harsh treble), or are naturally "perfect" hearing. 

[KaminKevCrew]

You have a point there, graphs and charts can't really make you decide on what you want. Testing them in store is the best option always.

No. If you know what you like, graphs and charts are an excellent way to decide on a headphone, because if two headphones sound similar, then they will have similar measurements. 

 

Saying that the M50X is 'Neutral' is utter crap. They are NOT a neutral headphone, in any sense. They are a bass-heavy headphone, that has no reason to call itself a monitoring headphone. It is a fact that the M50X is a bass-heavy headphone, so you clearly like headphones with more bass. There's nothing wrong with that. There is, however, something wrong with you calling them neutral, because that's a fallacy. @SSL, after this, I totally agree. Most of these topics are literally rehashes of things that we have been over many, many times. 

[spwath]

No. If you know what you like, graphs and charts are an excellent way to decide on a headphone, because if two headphones sound similar, then they will have similar measurements. 

 

Saying that the M50X is 'Neutral' is utter crap. They are NOT a neutral headphone, in any sense. They are a bass-heavy headphone, that has no reason to call itself a monitoring headphone. It is a fact that the M50X is a bass-heavy headphone, so you clearly like headphones with more bass. There's nothing wrong with that. There is, however, something wrong with you calling them neutral, because that's a fallacy. @SSL, after this, I totally agree. Most of these topics are literally rehashes of things that we have been over many, many times. 

We need like a master thread, withanswers to all the common questions.

 

I mean, there is one, but it needs to be read, and have even more info about specific headphones and such

[SSL]

There isn't any such thing as a neutral headphone. Everyone has a unique HRTF, which means that getting it completely right above 1kHz is impossible. On the low end, headphones should really have rising response into the sub bass, which is impossible. Flat is not neutral, either. I prefer to use the term "uncolored" which implies that there are no narrow-band peaks or dips which might create an unnatural timbre.

[KaminKevCrew]

There isn't any such thing as a neutral headphone. Everyone has a unique HRTF, which means that getting it completely right above 1kHz is impossible. On the low end, headphones should really have rising response into the sub bass, which is impossible. Flat is not neutral, either. I prefer to use the term "uncolored" which implies that there are no narrow-band peaks or dips which might create an unnatural timbre.

Fair enough I'll work on transitioning my vocabulary over

[SSL]

Fair enough I'll work on transitioning my vocabulary over

 

It may just be dithering over semantics, but I find it silly when people declare a headphone "neutral". Too subjective.

[KaminKevCrew]

It may just be dithering over semantics, but I find it silly when people declare a headphone "neutral". Too subjective.

It may be, but I think that if we use the same terms it will help out, since that will let people know that we are talking about the same things.

[CierroMierdo]

There isn't any such thing as a neutral headphone. Everyone has a unique HRTF, which means that getting it completely right above 1kHz is impossible. On the low end, headphones should really have rising response into the sub bass, which is impossible. Flat is not neutral, either. I prefer to use the term "uncolored" which implies that there are no narrow-band peaks or dips which might create an unnatural timbre.

Has there ever been a headphone, based on measurements, that have achieved something close enough to be considered uncolored? 

[KaminKevCrew]

Has there ever been a headphone, based on measurements, that have achieved something close enough to be considered uncolored?

Yeah. The hd800 is probably one of the more prominent candidates. Also the stax sr009, when paired with an appropriate energizer.

[SSL]

Has there ever been a headphone, based on measurements, that have achieved something close enough to be considered uncolored? 

 

Plenty. It's open to interpretation, though.

[CierroMierdo]

Yeah. The hd800 is probably one of the more prominent candidates. Also the stax sr009, when paired with an appropriate energizer.

 

 

Plenty. It's open to interpretation, though.

Well, which was has been close enough thats considered the absolute uncolored sound based on measurements? I'm just asking for the sake of curiosity.

[KaminKevCrew]

Well, which was has been close enough thats considered the absolute uncolored sound based on measurements? I'm just asking for the sake of curiosity.

The stax sr009 some pretty close to flat, according to the measurements from inner fidelity. It has some weirdness in the upper bass with a lift, but other than that it's pretty good.

Also, it has really good impulse response, and does a good job with 30 and 300hz square waves. That being said, that's totally expected from an electrostatic headphone, since the diaphragm weighs almost nothing.

[SSL]

Well, which was has been close enough thats considered the absolute uncolored sound based on measurements? I'm just asking for the sake of curiosity.

 

HD800, DT880, some Stax as mentioned. Anything that measures more or less flat below 1kHz and doesn't have anything too weird going on above that.

[KaminKevCrew]

HD800, DT880, some Stax as mentioned. Anything that measures more or less flat below 1kHz and doesn't have anything too weird going on above that.

HE-500 does a pretty decent job of it too.

[CierroMierdo]

The stax sr009 some pretty close to flat, according to the measurements from inner fidelity. It has some weirdness in the upper bass with a lift, but other than that it's pretty good.

Also, it has really good impulse response, and does a good job with 30 and 300hz square waves. That being said, that's totally expected from an electrostatic headphone, since the diaphragm weighs almost nothing.

 

 

HD800, DT880, some Stax as mentioned. Anything that measures more or less flat below 1kHz and doesn't have anything too weird going on above that.

I see. Now I feel like I wanna get a DT880.

[dylan43270]

The ATH -MSR7's start with an M. That is an "M" series Audio-Technica headphone that I would recommend.

[Philosobyte]

 Flat is not neutral, either.

^That's the part I never understood. Can you/someone explain this or point me to an article that does?

 

I know that our outer ears and ear canals mess with the frequencies, but I don't understand why headphones would need to account for that if sound from real sources has to go through the same things in our ears. 

[SSL]

^That's the part I never understood. Can you/someone explain this or point me to an article that does?

 

I know that our outer ears and ear canals mess with the frequencies, but I don't understand why headphones would need to account for that if sound from real sources has to go through the same things in our ears. 

 

Normal sounds are boosted by the outer ear structures, resulting in a broad peak centered around 3-4kHz. This peak is not subtle; it's on the order of 20dB or more. We are used to hearing this as neutral because all incoming sound is affected, including sound from speakers.

 

Headphones bypass the outer ear, thus this natural boost to the upper mid-range does not occur. As a result, a truly flat headphone will sound as though it has a large cut in this frequency range. The only solution is to boost the response of the headphone in the affected range. Angled drivers supposedly help in this area as well.