NVIDIA Pascal Mythbusting

[v3ron]

WoW! so many misconceptions cleared. Thanks for an awesome post

[Caeradwyn]

I think Nvidia's focus on compute performance and HPC applications, prove that the consumers haven't quite caught up with hardware development yet. Because the increase in performance over the last two to three generations of hardware haven't been exactly mind boggling (from a consumer point of view), most people seem to be running their slightly older systems, and are only starting to upgrade now, due to the introduction of VR. It wouldn't make financial sense for Nvidia to focus too heavily on new high end gaming solutions at the moment, as the 980 and 980Ti should be able to sell in large quantities for a good while yet. Even the 970, especially in SLi config, will most likely be a popular choice for a lot of people wanting to get ready for VR over the coming year. There has been quite a shift going on in the HPC market though, moving from traditional CPU based super computers and over to more compute based systems, which for many tasks can provide a major boost in performance. The HPC and also workstation markets have much higher profit margins than the consumer/gamer market, so I'm not surprised that the next gen GPU will focus heavily on this.

[GrimboSnipes]

On 10/13/2015 at 2:23 PM, ShanaSakai said:

Thank you for this, I was wondering whether I should wait b/c I'm worried I would need a new motherboard, guess not, so I'll just continue with my new build!

+1 on this, i guess their is no need to panic after reading that piece. I too will go foward with my first build.

[xframe]

As this is a Pascal MythBusting place, I have read some statements made by the CEO of Nvidia that it will cover gaming.

 

“We have found over the years to be able to focus on just one thing, which is visual computing, and be able to leverage that one thing across PC, cloud, and mobile, and be able to address four very large markets with that one thing: gaming, enterprise, cloud, and automotive,” said Mr. Huang. “We can do this one thing and now be able to enjoy all and deliver the capabilities to the market in all three major computing platforms, and gain four vertical markets that are quite frankly very exciting.” …“I cannot wait to tell you all about it, you are just going to have to wait just a little longer,” – CEO, Nvidia

Read more: http://wccftech.com/nvidia-ceo-talks-pascal-gp100-gp104-gpus-produced-finfets-hbm/#ixzz42aB7nk84

 

The three major computing platforms = PC, Cloud, mobile (Correct me if I am wrong)

The four vertical markets = gaming, enterprise, cloud, automotive (Correct me if I am wrong)

 

Which means Pascal is made to cover all the above right? 

[Glenwing]

55 minutes ago, xframe said:

As this is a Pascal MythBusting place, I have read some statements made by the CEO of Nvidia that it will cover gaming.

 

“We have found over the years to be able to focus on just one thing, which is visual computing, and be able to leverage that one thing across PC, cloud, and mobile, and be able to address four very large markets with that one thing: gaming, enterprise, cloud, and automotive,” said Mr. Huang. “We can do this one thing and now be able to enjoy all and deliver the capabilities to the market in all three major computing platforms, and gain four vertical markets that are quite frankly very exciting.” …“I cannot wait to tell you all about it, you are just going to have to wait just a little longer,” – CEO, Nvidia

Read more: http://wccftech.com/nvidia-ceo-talks-pascal-gp100-gp104-gpus-produced-finfets-hbm/#ixzz42aB7nk84

 

The three major computing platforms = PC, Cloud, mobile (Correct me if I am wrong)

The four vertical markets = gaming, enterprise, cloud, automotive (Correct me if I am wrong)

 

Which means Pascal is made to cover all the above right? 

Well yes, that was never under debate. All I said was that we don't know what Pascal's gaming performance will be like, because NVIDIA hasn't talked about gaming performance at all yet. But I don't think there was ever any question about whether NVIDIA was going to even make Pascal-based gaming cards at all. That's pretty much a given.

[xframe]

Yeah, true. Those information about Pascal and gaming seems very confidential.

 

Even in the latest announcement, they made it very general. Well, looks like we have to wait for another month to see what will they unveil.

[cyberlocc]

Great Post OP,  this deserves a bump, I been  calling the same thing and just get hit with "no the 1070 will be more than 20% faster than the 980ti" ya in there dreams :). It  would be nice but it isn't going to happen. (well it would be nice for people that dont own 980tis, so it doesn't apply to me lol).    

 

 

On 2/8/2016 at 4:53 AM, DELTAprime said:

I'm wanting to get a new card when Pascal, and Polaris, come out. When Nvidia says HBM will not be on low and mid tier cards what cards does that mean? I was wanting to get whatever the next xx70 card is, but if I have to step up to a xx80 I guess I better start saving.

No a 1070 will not get HBM, neither will a 1080, 1080 is a midrange card the 1070 is the bottom of midrange, unless a 1060 is released than that is the rock bottom of  mid range. The cards ranges are judged by there chips, if a chip ends in 4 it is midrange, if it ends in 0 it is flagship/high end.  The cards that will  get HBM are the GP100 chips, this  will be the Titan and the 1080ti no other cards. Those cards will also not release for quite awhile most likely q1 2017. 

 

 

On 2/9/2016 at 8:09 AM, Teddy07 said:

I consider the gtx 970 the begin of the upper end cards, definately not midrange.

Sorry to break your bubble but no a GTX 970 is about middle of the mid range, the midrange in 900 series consist of 960/970/980. The top End is 980TI/Titan X again dont listen to the names NV give look at chip names those are what matters. GM204 is mid range, the 970 and 980 use this chip (and I think the 960?) the top tier cards use GM200, that is like I said Titan X /980ti.  

 

How you think a 300 dollar card is high end when the real high end cards are 1000, I do not know. I could see that mistake with the 980 as the price was 650 at launch however Enthusiasts know better as we follow chips not marketing names. Dont be fooled by NVs trickery of cash grabs look at chip names always not card names :).

 

That is not to downplay the 970 its a great card with a great price but it is far from high end. someone that plays at 1080p would be  happy with it, and it would be great price ot performance that's for sure but it isn't high end. For someone like me that plays at 4k max settings SLI doesn't support enough cards for me to even use those lol ;). 

 

[loony979]

i also nearly got victim ,to this pascal crap - (well it's not crap that we know we all know nothing yet) But i asked on a topic i made ,upgrading 2xgtx 660's reference cards asus to windforce gtx 970 ,now i won't be getting the G1 as they are they same card to my knowledge and only have slightly differ clock speeds and the back plate may be more led crap .i don't care for led crap tho if it's there cool nor do i on the clock speeds or back plate.

i just hope i will see a noticeable upgrade from the 2x660's to eventually 2x 970's .

 

And as for pascal ,im not gonna listen till will know hard rock evidence that it's going to be great and i hope it is. for me i can only afford a $500 GPU as im in aus and that will be the windforce gtx 970 yes i could go $30 more and get that g1 but for what ? a back plate slightly different clocks ,mehh i OC anyway .

 

So for now im keen to NOT bother to listen to people that say Wait for Pascal.

[Big-G]

On 13/3/2016 at 0:38 AM, loony979 said:

So for now im keen to NOT bother to listen to people that say Wait for Pascal.

The same can be said about Polaris... without concrete specs... it's all "speculation"

[Autoimmunity]

On 3/12/2016 at 9:38 AM, loony979 said:

i also nearly got victim ,to this pascal crap - (well it's not crap that we know we all know nothing yet) But i asked on a topic i made ,upgrading 2xgtx 660's reference cards asus to windforce gtx 970 ,now i won't be getting the G1 as they are they same card to my knowledge and only have slightly differ clock speeds and the back plate may be more led crap .i don't care for led crap tho if it's there cool nor do i on the clock speeds or back plate.

i just hope i will see a noticeable upgrade from the 2x660's to eventually 2x 970's .

 

And as for pascal ,im not gonna listen till will know hard rock evidence that it's going to be great and i hope it is. for me i can only afford a $500 GPU as im in aus and that will be the windforce gtx 970 yes i could go $30 more and get that g1 but for what ? a back plate slightly different clocks ,mehh i OC anyway .

 

So for now im keen to NOT bother to listen to people that say Wait for Pascal.

Pascal WILL be faster, and it will be out in a few months.  If you can handle waiting that long, it is better to wait.  This is also a die shrink so you get the benefits of that as well.

[SpriteNo5]

3 hours ago, Autoimmunity said:

Pascal WILL be faster, and it will be out in a few months.  If you can handle waiting that long, it is better to wait.  This is also a die shrink so you get the benefits of that as well.

Of course it will be faster but that's not what the thread is about, it's about people going on as if it was the second coming!

 

And Pascal might be out in a few months, but the cards worth buying won't be out for at least another year. We'll get the 970/980 cards this year then the ti and Titan equivalents next summer. So for peeps with high end Nvidia ATM, who want a direct replacement, the wait is still a way off yet. 

[loony979]

14 hours ago, SpriteNo5 said:

Of course it will be faster but that's not what the thread is about, it's about people going on as if it was the second coming!

 

And Pascal might be out in a few months, but the cards worth buying won't be out for at least another year. We'll get the 970/980 cards this year then the ti and Titan equivalents next summer. So for peeps with high end Nvidia ATM, who want a direct replacement, the wait is still a way off yet. 

and thats the reason i just bought the WF G1 970 4gb. ill be a very happy man tomorrow hehehe.

[Autoimmunity]

On 3/15/2016 at 1:34 PM, SpriteNo5 said:

Of course it will be faster but that's not what the thread is about, it's about people going on as if it was the second coming!

 

And Pascal might be out in a few months, but the cards worth buying won't be out for at least another year. We'll get the 970/980 cards this year then the ti and Titan equivalents next summer. So for peeps with high end Nvidia ATM, who want a direct replacement, the wait is still a way off yet. 

The poster I was replying to has SLI 660s.  Hardly high end at this point.

[Ace0100]

Should i sell my 970 g1 gaming edition and play the waiting game for this? i only got the card a month back

[Big-G]

1 hour ago, Ace0100 said:

Should i sell my 970 g1 gaming edition and play the waiting game for this? i only got the card a month back

Na.... hold out for big pascal at the end of the year or maybe next year.

[dubdub]

Just wait and sell if the pascal lives up to its hype.. 

On 16/03/2016 at 8:32 PM, Ace0100 said:

Should i sell my 970 g1 gaming edition and play the waiting game for this? i only got the card a month back

 

[boq]

Moved my post (for some reason I put this in the wrong place)

 

Edited March 24, 2016 by boq
Wrong place

[libremaster]

I just play FFXIV so my 970 should be enough, but still can't wait for the 1080 Pascal from MSI 

[Overkilled]

On 12/03/2016 at 7:25 AM, cyberlocc said:

Great Post OP,  this deserves a bump, I been  calling the same thing and just get hit with "no the 1070 will be more than 20% faster than the 980ti" ya in there dreams :). It  would be nice but it isn't going to happen. (well it would be nice for people that dont own 980tis, so it doesn't apply to me lol).    

 

 

No a 1070 will not get HBM, neither will a 1080, 1080 is a midrange card the 1070 is the bottom of midrange, unless a 1060 is released than that is the rock bottom of  mid range. The cards ranges are judged by there chips, if a chip ends in 4 it is midrange, if it ends in 0 it is flagship/high end.  The cards that will  get HBM are the GP100 chips, this  will be the Titan and the 1080ti no other cards. Those cards will also not release for quite awhile most likely q1 2017. 

 

 

Sorry to break your bubble but no a GTX 970 is about middle of the mid range, the midrange in 900 series consist of 960/970/980. The top End is 980TI/Titan X again dont listen to the names NV give look at chip names those are what matters. GM204 is mid range, the 970 and 980 use this chip (and I think the 960?) the top tier cards use GM200, that is like I said Titan X /980ti.  

 

How you think a 300 dollar card is high end when the real high end cards are 1000, I do not know. I could see that mistake with the 980 as the price was 650 at launch however Enthusiasts know better as we follow chips not marketing names. Dont be fooled by NVs trickery of cash grabs look at chip names always not card names :).

 

That is not to downplay the 970 its a great card with a great price but it is far from high end. someone that plays at 1080p would be  happy with it, and it would be great price ot performance that's for sure but it isn't high end. For someone like me that plays at 4k max settings SLI doesn't support enough cards for me to even use those lol ;). 

 

No the Titan x is enthusiast range, the 980ti is upper high end 980 lower high end, the 970 upper mid range 960 lower mid-range.

 

Edit: if the 960 is the rock bottom of mid range is 1080p price to performance 950 low end along with the GT210?

[othertomperson]

http://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-pascal-p100-architecture-deep-dive/

 

Tesla, not consumer grade at all. But still interesting.

[i_build_nanosuits]

2 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

http://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-pascal-p100-architecture-deep-dive/

 

Tesla, not consumer grade at all. But still interesting.

it's only a matter of time before it does get to consumer grade cards...what you are looking at there is most likely what the next TITAN gaming card will be...but they will release the replacement to the GTX 970 and GTX 980 before that big chip there.

[othertomperson]

1 minute ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

it's only a matter of time before it does get to consumer grade cards...what you are looking at there is most likely what the next TITAN gaming card will be...but they will release the replacement to the GTX 970 and GTX 980 before that big chip there.

It's GP100 so that would definitely give that impression, yes.

[Gladius]

Any chance that the very high end pascal will be a 980 Ti killer? From what we have heard and seen now how much faster could it actually be in theory?

[The Salt Is REAL]

3 hours ago, Gladius said:

Any chance that the very high end pascal will be a 980 Ti killer? From what we have heard and seen now how much faster could it actually be in theory?

Probably not by much for gaming, NVIDIA's focus for Pascal was "deep learning" and workstation use

[MMKing]

I think quite a few people underestimate Pascal based on the busted myths.

 

If Nvidia release a gamer 610mm^2 chip on the 16nm Finfet with HBM2 memory. It is not inconceivable that the card will perform near double of what the current 601mm^2 980Ti or Titan X is performing.

 

However, i find this scenario unlikely. The sole reason why Nvidia is able to release a 610mm^2 chip in Q1-2017 and why it is aimed at the professional market, is because of the hefty price premium. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up at a 5000USD price tag, if not even more. The sheer amount of silicon they are gonna have to throw out due to impurities is gonna see to that. Keep in mind, Nvidia announced a computer with: 8xP100, 2x 16 core Xeon, 512GB DDR4 Memory, 4x2TB SSD and dual 10GbE ports. for the low price of 129 000 USD.

 

I predict we are going back to 600/7000 series die sizes, with a premium 980Ti / FuryX replacement added on top. 

 

GM206 (950/960) / Tonga (380/380x) replacement = 200-250 mm^2

Probably GDDR5x memory, i strongly believe this segment will replace the current 970, 980, 390 and 390x in terms of performance. 

 

GM204 (970/980) / Hawaii (390/390x) replacement = 275-325 mm^2

If HBM2 memory, i strongly believe this segment will have the edge over the current 980Ti and the Fury X in terms of performance.

 

GM200 (980Ti/TitanX) / Fiji (Fury/FuryX) = 350-400 mm^2 

These will probably come a bit later, maybe as much as a full year in the future. But they will most likely have HBM2 memory and have a significant lead over the 980TI and the Fury X in performance.

 

 

We are not gonna see a consumer priced 600mm^2 chip for at least two more years. I'm guessing we are gonna have to wait for ''Volta'' and ''Navi'' for that.