Help me with these tracert results please

Dimi3os · August 30, 2015

Hey guys, I've posted a topic earlier (which no one replied to ), since then I've been trying as many things as I could to figure out the problem but I need your help!

This was the previous thread which gives a lot of insight into the situation:

Hey guys,

I've posted about this particular issue once before but decided to let it rest since it was too time consuming, since then it has gotten better and worse, depending on the conditions.

Sometimes my pages load snappy (how it should be), other times, like now I can't even load a page without refreshing, when I tried to open a configurator for example (on a website) it took me a few refreshes and cancels to get in and with everything I selected in the configuration it had to load and sometimes it got stuck.

This all started after I got a new router (the Netgear Nighthawk AC1900) and hooked it up to my Netgear GS108 switch in the basement. Previously the only connected cables that were in use were the 2 to my pc upstairs. I had a powerline adapter from my modem to a Netgear wndr3700v2 (I believe it's v2). Everything worked fine and was snappy, until I decided to upgrade and hook up the Nighthawk to the same switch (which connected to the modem) as my pc, because of that I recycled the wndr router and put it downstairs to increase wifi coverage, hooked up to the same modem. Now suddently there are 5 ports in use on the switch (2 to my pc, 2 to the routers and 1 from my modem).

When I just shut off the Nighthawk things seemed to go better (might've been an illusion but probably not, no way to be sure though ). My network speed is 200 down/12 up, I reach 190+/11+ with speedtest.net and get a grade A on pingtest consitently but the loading times are so long.

I've tried resetting my modem, uplugging it, restarting all networking equipment etc. On average there are 20+ devices connected to the network, more so in the evening when more people are at my home. Loading videos seems to go fine on my pc with a wired connection but terrible on a mobile device via wifi, even connected to my modem which is a Doscis 3 modem/router combo.

Some important things:

My routers are set up as APs and take Ip addresses from the modem

I have tested the connection directly to the modem over wifi but not over ethernet

All routers/aps have the same SSID/password and their range overlaps in some places

Sometimes my Nighthawk's internet speed drops to really low levels, that's why I didn't connect through it but directly through the wall outlets leading to my switch.

I don't know how to connect to google DNS stuff.

What is it the bottleneck/ problem?

According to me it's either the switch or the modem. I believe more in the idea of the switch being the culprit since everything exept the wifi signal from the modem/router goes through there and the problems started right after installing it.

ALL HELP IS HIGHLY APPRECIATED, THANKS IN ADVANCE!

EDIT1: According to the box the bandwith is 16Gbps (non-blocking, whatever that means) and the Forwarding rate is 148800 packets/sec for 100Mbps and 1,488,000 packets/sec for 1Gbps

The latency is 38.44 µs max for 100Mbps and 17.9µs max for 1Gbps

Well, after reading a post on LTT talking about high ping times I went ahead and ran some different speedtests, all exept one giving the same results and telling me that my speeds are more than sufficient to not cause the problem (latest test in an 8 hours cycle 171.6 Mbps down and 7.4 up)

I've also done some tracerts to my modem/router combo (doscis 3) and to my 2 other routers. The result of the tracert are <1 ms ping normally with the occasional =1ms ping and the exceptional 3-10 on the routers. On the modem i've seen 60 once but haven't seen it more than that in the 15 minutes of my test so far.

This is where things become interesting: I've ran a tracert to google.be and the results were:

Tracing route to google.be [blanked out, not sure if I should share]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 2a02:1812:1c1f:2500:5e35:3bff:fe73:300a

2 13 ms 18 ms 12 ms 2a02:1800:2:30c0::2

3 10 ms 13 ms 28 ms 2a02:1800:2:30c0::2

4 13 ms 14 ms 14 ms 2a02:1800:0:1:208:2100:0:3

5 26 ms 24 ms 18 ms 2001:730:2205:b::d52e:b3a5

6 20 ms 15 ms 18 ms 2001:730:2205::d52e:b626

7 21 ms 25 ms 16 ms 2001:4860::1:0:87aa

8 16 ms 13 ms 17 ms 2001:4860::8:0:519f

9 41 ms 39 ms 35 ms 2001:4860::8:0:83d2

10 40 ms 41 ms 37 ms 2001:4860::2:0:7454

11 * * * Request timed out.

12 40 ms 39 ms 42 ms wq-in-x5e.1e100.net [2a00:1450:400c:c08::5e]

Trace complete.

I've ran it again and here are the results of the second one:

Tracing route to google.be [blanked out, not sure if I should share]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 2a02:1812:1c1f:2500:5e35:3bff:fe73:300a

2 14 ms 17 ms 21 ms 2a02:1800:2:30c0::2

3 29 ms 11 ms 19 ms 2a02:1800:2:30c0::2

4 15 ms 17 ms 19 ms 2a02:1800:0:1:208:2100:0:3

5 14 ms 14 ms 13 ms 2001:730:2205:b::d52e:b3a5

6 15 ms 19 ms 18 ms 2001:730:2205::d52e:b626

7 22 ms 16 ms 19 ms 2001:4860::1:0:87aa

8 16 ms 27 ms 17 ms 2001:4860::8:0:51a0

9 40 ms 35 ms 38 ms 2001:4860::8:0:507b

10 35 ms 39 ms 36 ms 2001:4860::2:0:a949

11 * * * Request timed out.

12 41 ms 53 ms 37 ms wk-in-x5e.1e100.net [2a00:1450:400c:c04::5e]

Trace complete.

When reading the post "Ping spikes" I came across this comment:

yes you should.... a traceroute will show where the issue is, within the first 8 hops is the network, so if the ping is high within the first 8 its the provider, if its high after the 8th hop its due to downloading etc.

looking at your traceroute it seems that maybe your isp is having some issues ie congestion that is due to network overload (too many customers and not enough bandwidth) contact them and tell them whats going on.

is this at certain times?

So what does this conclude to, is it my fault, is it my ISPs fault, is there any bottlenecking on my side and can I do something about it? Any help is highly appreciated, I've been trying to figure this out for a while now. :unsure:

EDIT1: Another symptom of my network's disease is that on some pages the images are blurry and I need to refresh to get to see an image at all or make it sharp.

arronleeds · August 30, 2015

if you have high ping within the first 8 hops it's an ISP issue, if ping is higher above the 8th hop it's your problem, things like downloading too much at one time or uploading a lot of things.

Dimi3os · August 30, 2015

if you have high ping within the first 8 hops it's an ISP issue, if ping is higher above the 8th hop it's your problem, things like downloading too much at one time or uploading a lot of things.

Does it mean downloading and uploading too much through my switch? That's where everything goes before it goes into the modem/router.

arronleeds · August 30, 2015

Does it mean downloading and uploading too much through my switch? That's where everything goes before it goes into the modem/router.

Indeed my friend, anything you are doing to cause ping rise will show on the 8th hop and upwards.

you have really good internet but as soon as one bad wifi device starts using bandwidth it can cripple it, my girlfriends dad has a shitty tablet and if he downloads anything it cripples my 80 Mbps connection down to 20 Mbps.

Dimi3os · August 30, 2015

Indeed my friend, anything you are doing to cause ping rise will show on the 8th hop and upwards.

you have really good internet but as soon as one bad wifi device starts using bandwidth it can cripple it, my girlfriends dad has a shitty tablet and if he downloads anything it cripples my 80 Mbps connection down to 20 Mbps.

I didn't know that, how would I find out what is crippling my connection? Even my wired connection.

arronleeds · August 30, 2015

I didn't know that, how would I find out what is crippling my connection? Even my wired connection.

Is it just you who uses the Internet ? Could you also do me a speedtest and show me the results (image)

dzonidev · August 30, 2015

-snip-

Are you running Dual Stack? Could be that's the issue. I can't really be bothered to look up every hop but from looking at this, your ISP has pretty shitty ass routes, probably because of IPv6.. Anyways only thing I can suggest is to start pinging a site before you open it. (ping host -t -l 32). If you notice any packet drops at the same time your connection times out. Then connect your modem directly and test again. If issue persists, call your ISP.

arronleeds · August 30, 2015

Are you running Dual Stack? Could be that's the issue. I can't really be bothered to look up every hop but from looking at this, your ISP has pretty shitty ass routes, probably because of IPv6.. Anyways only thing I can suggest is to start pinging a site before you open it. (ping host -t -l 32). If you notice any packet drops at the same time your connection times out. Then connect your modem directly and test again. If issue persists, call your ISP.

I think his ping is pretty shitty for the speed of his connection, I get 11ms on vdsl, by the sounds of it he's on fttp (fibre to the premises)

Never mind he's on docsis 3.0 which is actually pretty shitty for latency and better for raw speed.

Also why do you have so many routers connected to each other? This could be the cause, unless you mean you've tried different routers.

Dimi3os · August 30, 2015

Is it just you who uses the Internet ? Could you also do me a speedtest and show me the results (image)

It's everyone, I will get you a speedtest when I get to my pc.

Dimi3os · August 30, 2015

I think his ping is pretty shitty for the speed of his connection, I get 11ms on vdsl, by the sounds of it he's on fttp (fibre to the premises)

Never mind he's on docsis 3.0 which is actually pretty shitty for latency and better for raw speed.

Also why do you have so many routers connected to each other? This could be the cause, unless you mean you've tried different routers.

My ISP has a fiber backbone but no direct fiber yet, I can't get around the shitty ISP router, I have 1 new router upstairs configured as an AP (because of the problems mainly). And one near the garden also configured as an AP since I had no use for it after replacing it with the Nighthawk

Are you running Dual Stack? Could be that's the issue. I can't really be bothered to look up every hop but from looking at this, your ISP has pretty shitty ass routes, probably because of IPv6.. Anyways only thing I can suggest is to start pinging a site before you open it. (ping host -t -l 32). If you notice any packet drops at the same time your connection times out. Then connect your modem directly and test again. If issue persists, call your ISP.

I am not running dual stack or at least I didn't enable it (I don't know what it is tbh)

Are you running Dual Stack? Could be that's the issue. I can't really be bothered to look up every hop but from looking at this, your ISP has pretty shitty ass routes, probably because of IPv6.. Anyways only thing I can suggest is to start pinging a site before you open it. (ping host -t -l 32). If you notice any packet drops at the same time your connection times out. Then connect your modem directly and test again. If issue persists, call your ISP.

Looked it up, ipv6 is enabled on the modem router combo from my ISP and I can't disable it. I can on my own routers though but then I have to get them out of AP mode and get a wired modem that will allow me to use my router without conflict (the doscis 3 combo crap can't be used as an ap and will always give stuff an IP adress even if another router does so...)

arronleeds · August 30, 2015

My ISP has a fiber backbone but no direct fiber yet, I can't get around the shitty ISP router, I have 1 new router upstairs configured as an AP (because of the problems mainly). And one near the garden also configured as an AP since I had no use for it after replacing it with the Nighthawk

It could just be because you have so many things connected to your network that it's not sharing bandwidth out correctly, if others in the house are using the access points and not the main router that could be a big reason why it's not performing as well.

If you look at your traceroutes the high ping is on the 8th hop and higher so your ISP is not to blame but either the equipment in use or too many people using the Internet at the same time and using all the different Access points.

Dimi3os · August 30, 2015

It could just be because you have so many things connected to your network that it's not sharing bandwidth out correctly, if others in the house are using the access points and not the main router that could be a big reason why it's not performing as well.

If you look at your traceroutes the high ping is on the 8th hop and higher so your ISP is not to blame but either to equipment in use or too many people using the Internet at the same time and using all the different Access points.

Before I had the garden router connected via powerline to the modem, it had to travel so far that I only had like 30 mbs out of the possible 100 with those powerlines but it never lagged. There is a big construction project going on the end of the street. My ISP is probably messing with the backbone as well. It might not be this but I am surely going to give them a call tomorrow.

arronleeds · August 30, 2015

Before I had the garden router connected via powerline to the modem, it had to travel so far that I only had like 30 mbs out of the possible 100 with those powerlines but it never lagged. There is a big construction project going on the end of the street. My ISP is probably messing with the backbone as well. It might not be this but I am surely going to give them a call tomorrow.

give it a shot they may be able to tell you where you're going wrong , my friend is on Virgin media here in the uk and he has docsis 3.0 cable and he gets high ping a lot of the time due to his provider always upgrading the network.

Dimi3os · August 30, 2015

give it a shot they may be able to tell you where you're going wrong , my friend is on Virgin media here in the uk and he has docsis 3.0 cable and he gets high ping a lot of the time due to his provider always upgrading the network.

will do, thanks a lot for helping me out so far

I will go to bed now and post an update after I have called my ISP.

arronleeds · August 30, 2015

will do, thanks a lot for helping me out so far I will go to bed now and post an update after I have called my ISP.

Gooood and good night my friend you're welcome.

Dimi3os · August 30, 2015

Gooood and good night my friend you're welcome.

Thanks, you too! I'm going this time

Wombo · August 31, 2015

-snip-

Those pings look pretty normal to me. Anything past hop 1 in this trace is definitely out of your hands and if that is your issue here then yes it is something you may want to talk with your isp about. However, ping results are not the most reliable when it comes to testing the true speed of a connection. Most enterprise gear knows it is going to be answering a lot of ICMP requests and thus are set to only process a certain number at any given time and if the device is running low on resources it may delay in answering or just not respond to any ICMP requests at all. A peak round trip time of 42 ms is really not bad at all, given the extra delay expected in ICMP echo-replies.

TL;DR - I think this looks fine, but talk to your ISP if you are receiving inconsistent services.

Dimi3os · September 6, 2015

Gooood and good night my friend you're welcome.

Those pings look pretty normal to me. Anything past hop 1 in this trace is definitely out of your hands and if that is your issue here then yes it is something you may want to talk with your isp about. However, ping results are not the most reliable when it comes to testing the true speed of a connection. Most enterprise gear knows it is going to be answering a lot of ICMP requests and thus are set to only process a certain number at any given time and if the device is running low on resources it may delay in answering or just not respond to any ICMP requests at all. A peak round trip time of 42 ms is really not bad at all, given the extra delay expected in ICMP echo-replies.

TL;DR - I think this looks fine, but talk to your ISP if you are receiving inconsistent services.

Talked to my ISP yesterday, they did some tests and said the modem was fine and that the roadworks aren't affecting my connection, the support guy told me that he had optimized something with pop-ups (like, wtf does that have to do with it). I then reset my modem and shut down both routers, even reset 1 router but didn't turn it back on. It was a bit better, I could play some League of Legends without disconnecting from chat and champ select in the client like all the time, today it's the same as yesterday morning without having changed a thing. I can't do anything without having to wait 10s and then reload the page. Just tried to play a game of LoL and guess what, I couldn't pick a champion and got thrown out of the lobby.

I'm going to restart my switch now, don't see the point in it but I could try...

Does anyone have another idea because I'm running out of ideas and have tried literally everything. I'm going to also hook up my desktop directly to my modem if the switch reset fails, if it persists then I'm calling them to come and get their crappy doscis 3 modem out of here.

arronleeds · September 6, 2015

Talked to my ISP yesterday, they did some tests and said the modem was fine and that the roadworks aren't affecting my connection, the support guy told me that he had optimized something with pop-ups (like, wtf does that have to do with it). I then reset my modem and shut down both routers, even reset 1 router but didn't turn it back on. It was a bit better, I could play some League of Legends without disconnecting from chat and champ select in the client like all the time, today it's the same as yesterday morning without having changed a thing. I can't do anything without having to wait 10s and then reload the page. Just tried to play a game of LoL and guess what, I couldn't pick a champion and got thrown out of the lobby.

I'm going to restart my switch now, don't see the point in it but I could try...

Does anyone have another idea because I'm running out of ideas and have tried literally everything. I'm going to also hook up my desktop directly to my modem if the switch reset fails, if it persists then I'm calling them to come and get their crappy doscis 3 modem out of here.

maybe its the switch?

Dimi3os · September 6, 2015

maybe its the switch?

I thought so too, but what could be the problem there? I'm getting constant disconnects and it's becoming so annoying, there are people with 500kb/s having a better time playing games and loading pages than me, this is just...

I could disable the wifi on my modem and put the Nighthawk R7000 downstairs, run my cables through that and have a switch with an AP upstairs, idk if it would work though. I'm going to contact netgear now though, it's killing me.

Footy · September 6, 2015

I thought so too, but what could be the problem there? I'm getting constant disconnects and it's becoming so annoying, there are people with 500kb/s having a better time playing games and loading pages than me, this is just...

I could disable the wifi on my modem and put the Nighthawk R7000 downstairs, run my cables through that and have a switch with an AP upstairs, idk if it would work though. I'm going to contact netgear now though, it's killing me.

If your using wireless then you need to isolate that possible issue first.

Use a tool like WinMTR to ping google 8.8.8.8 its like a traceroute but over time and gives stats

Do this wired and wireless, quite often on these modern wifi devices they auto switch between 5ghz and 2.4 ghz, i would always recommend disabling this and giving them different names and connect to the one you want, 2.4ghz better at range, 5ghz faster.

also setup a ping -t <IP> to your router on the command line Start->Run->'cmd' this is the default gateway in 'ipconfig /all'

If the ping to your router is dropping pings, either its a wifi or router issue.

If you are happy you dont have local network issues after running the tests and splitting your wifi networks, run a WinMTR to your localised LOL servers and try and start a game, you should see some latency spikes or ping drops.

Paste some results and lets see if there is any more we can do to help.

Dimi3os · October 2, 2015

If your using wireless then you need to isolate that possible issue first.

Use a tool like WinMTR to ping google 8.8.8.8 its like a traceroute but over time and gives stats

Do this wired and wireless, quite often on these modern wifi devices they auto switch between 5ghz and 2.4 ghz, i would always recommend disabling this and giving them different names and connect to the one you want, 2.4ghz better at range, 5ghz faster.

also setup a ping -t <IP> to your router on the command line Start->Run->'cmd' this is the default gateway in 'ipconfig /all'

If the ping to your router is dropping pings, either its a wifi or router issue.

If you are happy you dont have local network issues after running the tests and splitting your wifi networks, run a WinMTR to your localised LOL servers and try and start a game, you should see some latency spikes or ping drops.

Paste some results and lets see if there is any more we can do to help.

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| WinMTR statistics |

|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|

| 192.168.0.1 - 0 | 264 | 264 | 0 | 0 | 25 | 0 |

| ..-..-..-..access.telenet.be - 1 | 260 | 259 | 7 | 12 | 88 | 10 |

| .access.telenet.be 0 | 264 | 264 | 5 | 12 | 39 | 11 |

| .access.telenet.be - 0 | 264 | 264 | 10 | 16 | 44 | 16 |

| .Brussels1.Level3.net - 0 | 264 | 264 | 11 | 17 | 42 | 15 |

|.Amsterdam1.Level3.net - 1 | 260 | 259 | 14 | 19 | 135 | 18 |

| .... - 1 | 260 | 259 | 10 | 17 | 68 | 13 |

| .... - 0 | 264 | 264 | 24 | 30 | 66 | 32 |

| ....132 - 0 | 264 | 264 | 23 | 31 | 65 | 25 |

| ....139 - 0 | 264 | 264 | 25 | 34 | 104 | 31 |

| ...30 - 1 | 260 | 259 | 0 | 31 | 141 | 29 |

| No response from host - 100 | 52 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |

| google-public-dns-a.google.com - 1 | 260 | 259 | 0 | 30 | 141 | 31 |

|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|

WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

Sorry for replying so late, I was tried of trying to solve this after numerous attempts and let it be, but today I tried to watch the LoL world championship on Twitch and I got tons of stuttering again. I also tried to play a game and had constant disconnects in the client, I have this on every online game. My stupid ISP says that there is nothing wrong. Also, construction work is going on at the end of the street, might be a coincidence but the problem started weeks ago when their trucks started showing. I would really appreciate it if you could help me interpret those numbers.

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| WinMTR statistics |

|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|

| - 0 | 116 | 116 | 0 | 0 | 24 | 0 |

| .access.telenet.be - 0 | 116 | 116 | 7 | 13 | 39 | 10 |

| .access.telenet.be - 0 | 116 | 116 | 9 | 14 | 43 | 12 |

| .access.telenet.be - 0 | 116 | 116 | 7 | 13 | 36 | 12 |

| ..Brussels1.Level3.net - 0 | 116 | 116 | 11 | 20 | 73 | 16 |

| --..Amsterdam1.Level3.net - 0 | 116 | 116 | 14 | 19 | 59 | 15 |

| No response from host - 100 | 23 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |

|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|

WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

When trying to load a stream I also got a "failed to connect to chat" reconnecting. I feel like I'm getting this with everything I try to open on every device.

Wombo · October 2, 2015

-snip-

Is that second trace supposed to only reach the Amsterdam node of Level3? If this is where the trace stopped when you tried to reach 8.8.8.8 there is a major issue here, however it's actually not directly with your ISP, but with one of their peers. If the ping wasn't supposed to stop there send these to your ISP and tell them they have an issue with one of their peers. This type of connectivity issue will most certainly not just be affecting you. If you do send these to your ISP make ensure you tell them the address you were trying to resolve and the time at which you tried to do this, additional logs could also be helpful

I had an issue similar to this a few years back and it was a bit of a pain to get my ISP to listen to me when I told them they have to contact the offending party as they are infact the ones with the circuit numbers and peering agreements. Eventually threatening not to pay got them to take me seriously and my problem was fixed in less than a week... funny how that works.

Dimi3os · October 2, 2015

Is that second trace supposed to only reach the Amsterdam node of Level3? If this is where the trace stopped when you tried to reach 8.8.8.8 there is a major issue here, however it's actually not directly with your ISP, but with one of their peers. If the ping wasn't supposed to stop there send these to your ISP and tell them they have an issue with one of their peers. This type of connectivity issue will most certainly not just be affecting you. If you do send these to your ISP make ensure you tell them the address you were trying to resolve and the time at which you tried to do this, additional logs could also be helpful

I had an issue similar to this a few years back and it was a bit of a pain to get my ISP to listen to me when I told them they have to contact the offending party as they are infact the ones with the circuit numbers and peering agreements. Eventually threatening not to pay got them to take me seriously and my problem was fixed in less than a week... funny how that works.

Alright, I'll try that! Hope it works, thanks for your response!

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Help me with these tracert results please

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