DirectX 12 - AMD vs Intel

[TheCaptain53]

Hey guys,

So the other day I bought myself an i5-4690K which should be arriving today. Having just been reminded of the imminent release of DirectX 12, has my purchase become of less value? I'm currently using an FX-6300.

I already spent £170 on the CPU, I'd like to know if it's definitely worth rebuilding my PC before spending another £130 on new RAM and mobo.

[minibois]

-snip-

DX12 is not out yet, we don't even know what stuff it will do..

And if a game wants to use it, I heard it has to revamp its game engine.

We don't know yet. But for now, that i5 is a great CPU.

[techguru]

the intel chip will still beat the amd chip with dx12

its just the amd chip will do better with dx12

 

also..people forget

that games have to be programmed for dx12 for it to help at all

and that won't happen immediatly

[Sakkura]

It's going to take a while before games supporting DX12 begin to arrive, and even then a Core i5-4690K will remain ahead of an FX-6300. I think your purchase is worth it.

[Sauron]

DX12 will NOT affect games that have already been released. Plus, an i5 is still superior to an fx 6300, even when the FX is being fully utilized.

[TheCaptain53]

Thanks guys, I'm feeling a little more confident in my purchase.

[flipped_bit]

DX12 will benefit both AMD and Intel CPUs.  But at the end of the day, the Intel will still have the considerably faster single-threaded performance. 

 

According to the benchmarks I've read, the 4690K can handle two 970s in SLI without a problem, and that's with DX11.  With DX12 reducing CPU load even more, I'd expect it be a capable CPU for many years.  I'm looking at buying an Intel quad myself when Skylake is released, either the new quad Skylake or the 4690K.  It all depends on price vs. performance

[FruitBasketSilex]

Let me just correct something here.

DX12 is ONLY meant to move the graphics stack from core 0 to all cores, all this does is allow any core to perform a draw call, all it is meant to do is reduce draw call bottlenecks, a not very common problem. This does not mean, that when devs use this API that the program is instantly able to use all of the cores. It is still up to the developers to multithread their programs and games.

DX12 DOES NOT mean that any game that uses it is instantly multithreaded.
DX12 DOES move the graphics stack across all cores.

It gets really annoying seeing everyone thinking about dx12 the wrong way.

As for the benchmarks, they're just to make Microsoft look good. I suggest you wait until dx12 comes out to actually see what changes performances wise.

[flipped_bit]

Let me just correct something here.

DX12 is ONLY meant to move the graphics stack from core 0 to all cores, all this does is allow any core to perform a draw call, all it is meant to do is reduce draw call bottlenecks, a not very common problem. This does not mean, that when devs use this API that the program is instantly able to use all of the cores. It is still up to the developers to multithread their programs and games.

DX12 DOES NOT mean that any game that uses it is instantly multithreaded.

DX12 DOES move the graphics stack across all cores.

It gets really annoying seeing everyone thinking about dx12 the wrong way.

As for the benchmarks, they're just to make Microsoft look good. I suggest you wait until dx13 comes out to actually see what changes performances wise.

 

That's very true.  With DX12 graphics will be more distributed, but that doesn't mean the rest of the game logic will be.  That said, many games today put the graphics load and the game logic code on the same thread.  By distributing the graphics logic among different threads, that gives the thread handling the game logic more resources to work with.  This will benefit both AMD and Intel processors, but it will be more noticeable in AMD processors because of their poor single-threaded performance.

 

The other point that people often mistake is that DX12 will benefit current and older games.  To my understanding this isn't the case.  Developers won't go back and code their older games to support DX12.  That's why I still suggest people get CPUs with good single-threaded performance.

[FruitBasketSilex]

That's very true. With DX12 graphics will be more distributed, but that doesn't mean the rest of the game logic will be. That said, many games today put the graphics load and the game logic code on the same thread. By distributing the graphics logic among different threads, that gives the thread handling the game logic more resources to work with. This will benefit both AMD and Intel processors, but it will be more noticeable in AMD processors because of their poor single-threaded performance.

The other point that people often mistake is that DX12 will benefit current and older games. To my understanding this isn't the case. Developers won't go back and code their older games to support DX12. That's why I still suggest people get CPUs with good single-threaded performance.

This.

[WaitForMeImOnDialUp]

That's very true.  With DX12 graphics will be more distributed, but that doesn't mean the rest of the game logic will be.  That said, many games today put the graphics load and the game logic code on the same thread.  By distributing the graphics logic among different threads, that gives the thread handling the game logic more resources to work with.  This will benefit both AMD and Intel processors, but it will be more noticeable in AMD processors because of their poor single-threaded performance.

 

The other point that people often mistake is that DX12 will benefit current and older games.  To my understanding this isn't the case.  Developers won't go back and code their older games to support DX12.  That's why I still suggest people get CPUs with good single-threaded performance.

but didnt microsoft show an example of dx12 that had about a 50% increase in a benchmark not made for dx12? (starswarm benchmark?) they claimed it actually would increase even in games not made for it...

[FruitBasketSilex]

but didnt microsoft show an example of dx12 that had about a 50% increase in a benchmark not made for dx12?

Made to make Microsoft look good. I suggest you wait till dx12 launches to see how it performs.

[flipped_bit]

but didnt microsoft show an example of dx12 that had about a 50% increase in a benchmark not made for dx12? (starswarm benchmark?) they claimed it actually would increase even in games not made for it...

 

I'm pretty sure Starswarm was designed specifically to show off DX12.  It's pretty much a best-case scenario.

 

I suppose it's possible that DX12 could benefit current and older games if DX12 refactors some of the DX11 functions to make them more efficient.  But they are APIs, and it's up to the developers to use them.  It's very unlikely development shops will invest the resources necessary to support DX12 in anything but new titles.

[Megahurt]

Let me just correct something here.

DX12 is ONLY meant to move the graphics stack from core 0 to all cores, all this does is allow any core to perform a draw call, all it is meant to do is reduce draw call bottlenecks, a not very common problem. This does not mean, that when devs use this API that the program is instantly able to use all of the cores. It is still up to the developers to multithread their programs and games.

DX12 DOES NOT mean that any game that uses it is instantly multithreaded.

DX12 DOES move the graphics stack across all cores.

It gets really annoying seeing everyone thinking about dx12 the wrong way.

As for the benchmarks, they're just to make Microsoft look good. I suggest you wait until dx13 comes out to actually see what changes performances wise.

The 3dmark api test show that even a single core with no HT in DX12 can perform almost twice as many draw calls as DX11, with any prcessor, it's not just distributing across multiple cores.

 

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/3DMark-API-Overhead-Feature-Test-Early-DX12-Performance

[FruitBasketSilex]

The 3dmark api test show that even a single core with no HT in DX12 can perform almost twice as many draw calls as DX11, with any prcessor, it's not just distributing across multiple cores.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/3DMark-API-Overhead-Feature-Test-Early-DX12-Performance

My post was to mostly handle the 'auto multi thread' rumour.

[Sakkura]

Made to make Microsoft look good. I suggest you wait till dx12 launches to see how it performs.

 

That's a bit harsh. It was a benchmark designed to illustrate bottlenecks in one particular area, and it did that perfectly well, without any indications of it being a biased or manipulated benchmark. Making a crazy draw call bottleneck just automatically makes APIs like DirectX 12 and Mantle look a lot better, because that is the most prominent area of improvement in these newer APIs.

 

Obviously games will never show as big a performance difference as Star Swarm, since it's a deliberately designed worst case scenario for DirectX 11.