What DAC/AMP to buy

[Eddprzz]

Then don't post.

I posted a response to the op but this guy replies wit some other info that I didn't care about that's why I wrote that

[SSL]

I posted a response to the op but this guy replies wit some other info that I didn't care about that's why I wrote that

 

He was explaining why your comment was wrong and unhelpful. If that isn't something you care about, then go away.

[KaminKevCrew]

I posted a response to the op but this guy replies wit some other info that I didn't care about that's why I wrote that

creatip was trying to be helpful, and educate you in a factual, easily relate-able way. There is no reason for you to get snarky with him. If you don't care about being correct, and learning, then allow me to quote SSL: 

...your comment was wrong and unhelpful. If that isn't something you care about, then go away.

The whole point of a forum is that we help each other to make educated decisions. Guys like SSL, creatip, ShearMe, Xtroria, etc. (in the audio section, which I where I spend most of my time) are really incredibly helpful. They just do their best to help people like the OP understand what is actually going on with the Impedance ratings, etc. 

 

 

@OP, sorry to distract from the original topic... Anyway, the guys are right. You would be fine with just the onboard audio. I have a pair of Sennheiser HD650s that I use on a daily basis. They are rated at 300 ohms, but they have been measured to jump to over 500 at certain frequencies. They can be run fine on my standard onboard audio. Impedance has almost nothing to do with how hard a given pair of headphones would be to drive. What DOES make a difference is the efficiency of the headphones. That's why the HifiMan headphones outlined earlier have a low impedance, but are very hard to drive. It also has to do with what type of driver is used to produce sound (that's generally, not a hard and fast rule) Generally, dynamic drivers (the same idea as most speakers) tend to be easiest to drive, then Orthodynamic or Planar Magnetic, with the hardest to drive being electrostatic headphones. (has anyone tried to drive a pair of electrostats on a iphone? I would love to know how that went) 

 

If you're posting here, be open to the ideas that others bring to the table, and listen to what they have to say before refuting their points, please We try to be friendly (mostly) but it gets hard when people won't listen to those of us that have a lot of experience with this stuff. Feel welcome to contest our ideas and points, but please bring some actual evidence to back up your opinions (example: Creatip's point about the hifiman headphones.)

[Eddprzz]

He was explaining why your comment was wrong and unhelpful. If that isn't something you care about, then go away.

how was my comment wrong and unhelpful op asked for a dac around 200 250 dollars and I said the d1 dac and stated couple nice things about it

[Eddprzz]

creatip was trying to be helpful, and educate you in a factual, easily relate-able way. There is no reason for you to get snarky with him. If you don't care about being correct, and learning, then allow me to quote SSL:

The whole point of a forum is that we help each other to make educated decisions. Guys like SSL, creatip, ShearMe, Xtroria, etc. (in the audio section, which I where I spend most of my time) are really incredibly helpful. They just do their best to help people like the OP understand what is actually going on with the Impedance ratings, etc.

@OP, sorry to distract from the original topic... Anyway, the guys are right. You would be fine with just the onboard audio. I have a pair of Sennheiser HD650s that I use on a daily basis. They are rated at 300 ohms, but they have been measured to jump to over 500 at certain frequencies. They can be run fine on my standard onboard audio. Impedance has almost nothing to do with how hard a given pair of headphones would be to drive. What DOES make a difference is the efficiency of the headphones. That's why the HifiMan headphones outlined earlier have a low impedance, but are very hard to drive. It also has to do with what type of driver is used to produce sound (that's generally, not a hard and fast rule) Generally, dynamic drivers (the same idea as most speakers) tend to be easiest to drive, then Orthodynamic or Planar Magnetic, with the hardest to drive being electrostatic headphones. (has anyone tried to drive a pair of electrostats on a iphone? I would love to know how that went)

If you're posting here, be open to the ideas that others bring to the table, and listen to what they have to say before refuting their points, please We try to be friendly (mostly) but it gets hard when people won't listen to those of us that have a lot of experience with this stuff. Feel welcome to contest our ideas and points, but please bring some actual evidence to back up your opinions (example: Creatip's point about the hifiman headphones.)

here's the thing I don't know shit about it it's like trying to learn math and u jump into multiplication first I gotta somewhat know addition to go into multiplication i don't know what ohms does all I somewhat know is u need an amp to run a 300 ohm headphone volume decently rather than using phone internal sound card

[BoredErica]

how was my comment wrong and unhelpful op asked for a dac around 200 250 dollars and I said the d1 dac and stated couple nice things about it

The way you were looking at it, just looking at impedance and saying it won't work, is not the correct way to go about it. Recommending a $180 dac/amp for the amp when the amp is USB powered is a bad idea. There exists better solutions with more power for cheaper if the OP even needs one in the first place.

 

here's the thing I don't know shit about it it's like trying to learn math and u jump into multiplication first I gotta somewhat know addition to go into multiplication i don't know what ohms does all I somewhat know is u need an amp to run a 300 ohm headphone volume decently rather than using phone internal sound card

If you have no idea what you're talking about perhaps it's best not to give recommendations like those.

[KaminKevCrew]

here's the thing I don't know shit about it it's like trying to learn math and u jump into multiplication first I gotta somewhat know addition to go into multiplication i don't know what ohms does all I somewhat know is u need an amp to run a 300 ohm headphone volume decently rather than using phone internal sound card

Here's the thing: You just said that you don't know anything about it. If you don't know, then ask questions, don't try to refute the arguments that people who know what they're talking about are trying to make. I love audio, that's why most of my time here is spent in the audio section. I know for a fact that you do not need an amp to run 300 ohm headphones. Case and point: My 300-500 ohm Sennheiser HD650s because, you know, I actually own them, and have done that. Had you read the entirety of my post, you might have learned something about why you were wrong, and that may have helped you. I can run my senns off my phone with no issue, and they get plenty loud. 

 

Also, this:

 

If you have no idea what you're talking about perhaps it's best not to give recommendations like those.

 

 

Oh, also, with the way that knowledge is no longer top down (you know, with the advent of the internet) you could try to just jump in, and then google the terms you don't understand. That's how I learned about audio, and computers, and just about every one of my hobbies. I find it much easier to start with something complex and then work my way down to the basics. I spend actual time in an effort to learn these things, as you clearly have not (at least as far as audio goes). So I implore you to listen and ask questions instead of ignorantly arguing. Form an opinion once you know something about the subject, not before!

[Eddprzz]

 

The way you were looking at it, just looking at impedance and saying it won't work, is not the correct way to go about it. Recommending a $180 dac/amp for the amp when the amp is USB powered is a bad idea. There exists better solutions with more power for cheaper if the OP even needs one in the first place.

 

If you have no idea what you're talking about perhaps it's best not to give recommendations like those.

 

he said he needed a dac/amp combo so i said d1 dac he didnt say decdicated amp

 

[BoredErica]

 

 

The way you were looking at it, just looking at impedance and saying it won't work, is not the correct way to go about it. Recommending a $180 dac/amp for the amp when the amp is USB powered is a bad idea. There exists better solutions with more power for cheaper if the OP even needs one in the first place.

 

If you have no idea what you're talking about perhaps it's best not to give recommendations like those.

 

he said he needed a dac/amp combo so i said d1 dac he didnt say decdicated amp

 

 

And he probably doesn't need a new dac, which leads right back into my original post.

[creatip123]

(has anyone tried to drive a pair of electrostats on a iphone? I would love to know how that went) 

 

 

Never got the chance to personally try one, but from what I read, electrostats are on a whole different level, in the working mechanism. They need a very high voltage to charge the electric plates, which in turn make the electrostatic plate/film vibrates. They need a special electrostat amp, one that can output that high of a voltage, 100-1000V according to this: http://headfonics.com/2011/05/dynamic-vs-orthodynamic-vs-electrostatic-which-is-which/.

 

So it can't be, say, plugged to something like an O2 (which is a very powerful amp already), because it can't output the high voltage needed. 

 

This is also a good read on the subject: http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/stax/electrostatic.htm

 

 

 

By comparison, the Stax SR-Lambda Professional of 1982 was rated at 0.007% distortion at 400 Hz at a live-concert level 100 dB SPL. Looking at its actual distortion curve, we can see that its distortion is about -67 dB (0.05%) from 30 Hz on up, at 100 dB SPL. Not only is this about one-thirtieth the level of the world's best conventional loudspeaker, this is measured at 100 dB at the ear, or at ten times the apparent acoustic power, and down to 30 Hz, not 45 Hz! Even at 100 dB SPL, these electrostatic headphones have only about 0.1% distortion down to 20 Hz!

 

This lack of distortion is only one of many reasons why electrostatics sound so much better than ordinary transducers.

 

*I think there were also a 'left-wing' group that think it can't be good to have thousands volts running so close to your brain, but never read the science behind it that states why it's detrimental. 

[BoredErica]

Yeah, that shit needs is own amp, which is unfortunate.

[creatip123]

Yeah, that shit needs is own amp, which is unfortunate.

 

DIYaudio got a topic where people build their own electrostats, the headphone and the amp. Apparently in principle, it's not that hard to build/mod an electrostat amp. Just have to add a voltage transformer to raise the voltage output. That's in principle tho, in reality I think it's anything but 'easy'

 

Also, from the kenrockwell link:

 

 

Electrostatic headphones use extremely thin diaphragms. For comparison, a very thin dry-cleaning plastic bag, the type that blows away just by breathing on it, is ten to twenty times thicker than the material used in electrostatic headphones.

 

Now where in the hell does a guy get his hands on that kind of thin material? I don't think radioshack has it....

[KaminKevCrew]

Yeah, that shit needs is own amp, which is unfortunate.

life goals though... I WILL own a pair one day.

[KaminKevCrew]

DIYaudio got a topic where people build their own electrostats, the headphone and the amp. Apparently in principle, it's not that hard to build/mod an electrostat amp. Just have to add a voltage transformer to raise the voltage output. That's in principle tho, in reality I think it's anything but 'easy'

 

Also, from the kenrockwell link:

 

 

Now where in the hell does a guy get his hands on that kind of thin material? I don't think radioshack has it....

I think it's probably like microprocessors, where you actually have to grow it in order for it to be that thin...

The founder of hifiman actually has a degree in nanotechnology, not audio anything.

[creatip123]

I think it's probably like microprocessors, where you actually have to grow it in order for it to be that thin...

The founder of hifiman actually has a degree in nanotechnology, not audio anything.

 

Yeah, I was referring to the common DIY-ers who build their own ESL (what they call electrostats) headphones. Where do they get their hands on those film. I don't think they can e-mail Stax or something, and order a pre-made film. Or can they? 

[BoredErica]

Yeah, I was referring to the common DIY-ers who build their own ESL (what they call electrostats) headphones. Where do they get their hands on those film. I don't think they can e-mail Stax or something, and order a pre-made film. Or can they? 

Maybe you should ask the DIYers where they get it.

 

I've kindda moved past audio now. I've been looking into keyboards and trying to find the perfect keyboard.

[ShearMe]

Maybe you should ask the DIYers where they get it.

I've kindda moved past audio now. I've been looking into keyboards and trying to find the perfect keyboard.

I've never understood the keyboard hobby...

Sure, getting the right kind of switch is nice, but beyond that you're just nitpicking useless features.

[xtroria]

I've never understood the keyboard hobby...

Sure, getting the right kind of switch is nice, but beyond that you're just nitpicking useless features.

Hobby, that's like people searching for the best headphones for their taste.

[BoredErica]

I've never understood the keyboard hobby...

Sure, getting the right kind of switch is nice, but beyond that you're just nitpicking useless features.

For me it's about finding the right type of keycaps, lighting, and case construction.

 

I end up finding pros and cons to every keyboard and I do get annoyed if the keycap is the wrong type of plastic, the legends look like Comic Sans (or not ideal), the backlighting is off, the case looks bad, the case angle is too strong, etc. It all annoys me.

 

 

[SSL]

I've never understood the keyboard hobby...

Sure, getting the right kind of switch is nice, but beyond that you're just nitpicking useless features.

 

Needs good synergy.

[BoredErica]

Needs good synergy.

I've actually been thinking about the sound typing makes, based upon the construction of the case, the switch, backplate, and keycaps... and how much vibration is transferred over to the desk. That's actually testable with a trusty mic. Doable? Yes. Viewed as sane by the majority of the population? Not quite.

[KaminKevCrew]

@creatip123, I'm definitely going to look and see if I can order some ultra thin polymer film now...

I really like my Daskeyboard 4, but I have now gone through two different set of PBT keycaps, and the main reason I like it is the volume wheel. The aluminum faceplaate is certainly nice, but I definitely wish that there was a full aluminum case for the lower half of the keyboard.

 

I should really look into some of those awesome Ducky keyboards...

 

I also really want to try out those crazy Zinc keycaps, although I would robably get pissed at them for being too slick to type on properly.

[BoredErica]

@creatip123, I'm definitely going to look and see if I can order some ultra thin polymer film now...

I really like my Daskeyboard 4, but I have now gone through two different set of PBT keycaps, and the main reason I like it is the volume wheel. The aluminum faceplaate is certainly nice, but I definitely wish that there was a full aluminum case for the lower half of the keyboard.

 

I should really look into some of those awesome Ducky keyboards...

 

I also really want to try out those crazy Zinc keycaps, although I would robably get pissed at them for being too slick to type on properly.

For me a solid, all-aluminum build is the right choice for me. The Gon keyboards look slick, especially for people who want a ton of lighting options. But something like the Kmac 2 is right for me (but I need custom work for leds on all keys). The Duck Spacesaver is very nice, but the 11 degree case incline is a dealbreaker for me. 

 

This whole journey started because freakin' Ducky doesn't make Ducky Legend TKL. I don't want a volume wheel, I'd just use the volume wheel on my amp instead.

[KaminKevCrew]

Yeah, the whole reason I needed a volume wheel is that I am currently using an Asus Xonar Essence STX, so I needed something convenient. I've never heard of Gon Keyboards. Time to check them out!!! 

 

I swear, if I buy one, my girlfriend is going to kill me if I don't sell the other two mechanical keyboards I have...

[xtroria]

Yeah, the whole reason I needed a volume wheel is that I am currently using an Asus Xonar Essence STX, so I needed something convenient. I've never heard of Gon Keyboards. Time to check them out!!!

I swear, if I buy one, my girlfriend is going to kill me if I don't sell the other two mechanical keyboards I have...

Not if you get her a handbag or a purse first, lol