Confused by the steam subscriber agreement.

[ShadowCaptain]

You don't have to particularly play a game to crack it. Just have to launch it and keep reverse engineering the DRM, so assuming they keep the game open for testing <1hr, they could pay, crack, refund, release, putting them out no money at all. Someone has to pay for a copy in order to crack it, and it's usually people like SKiDROW.

 

I am glad somebody understands it

 

In an industry looking to sell hundreds of thousands, if not millions of units, a single copy is a drop in the ocean.

 

not if it makes it easier, somebody could keep buying games and refunding them - safer than downloading a torrent as its direct from steam

[Jade]

In an industry looking to sell hundreds of thousands, if not millions of units, a single copy is a drop in the ocean.

See Greenlight. If Valve offered refunds like that, it would essentially have to be across their entire platform, fucking over the new and smaller developers. Steam doesn't just sell blockbuster titles, it sells a lot of indie games like Besiege, for example.

[jayctech]

Not just them. Similar contradiction in the Google Play Store and the receipt.

[Tacitus]

not if it makes it easier, somebody could keep buying games and refunding them - safer than downloading a torrent as its direct from steam

 

No they couldn't. If you are seen to be abusing the return rights provided under EU law they can be revoked by the retailer. Otherwise you could keep buying a a GPU from amazon, returning it within the allowed 30 days, buying it again, returning it etc etc until new GPUs come out and the cycle repeats itself.

 

Just one example.

 

See Greenlight. If Valve offered refunds like that, it would essentially have to be across their entire platform, fucking over the new and smaller developers. Steam doesn't just sell blockbuster titles, it sells a lot of indie games like Besiege, for example.

 

See above + I think people have a different attitude toward indie developers, especially when they're not being asked to fork out £40 for a game.

 

Irrespective, piracy is a fact of life and saying any rule changes open the door to it is inconsequential.

[Jade]

No they couldn't. If you are seen to be abusing the return rights provided under EU law they can be revoked by the retailer. Otherwise you could keep buying a a GPU from amazon, returning it within the allowed 30 days, buying it again, returning it etc etc until new GPUs come out and the cycle repeats itself.

 

Just one example.

 

 

See above + I think people have a different attitude toward indie developers, especially when they're not being asked to fork out £40 for a game.

 

Irrespective, piracy is a fact of life and saying any rule changes open the door to it is inconsequential.

Then, by the same logic, Valve can and does revoke the choice to withdraw once their service is provided. Also, nothing would stop the crackers from just switching between accounts so they can still continue to purchase and refund.

 

tl;dr: Valve isn't obligated to provide anything after they give you access to the game, as their service is providing access to games digitally. You get the game within 14 days, so their service is fulfilled and no longer withdrawable. That said, if you -really- want your money back, chargebacks on the card carrier level.

[ShadowCaptain]

SNIP

 

But you have to keep returning it, meaning you cant keep use it while its being sent, physical items are COMPLETELY different to digitally downloaded media

 

Valve would have no way of knowing, say you dont refund cheap games but maybe 1 AAA game a month etc

 

I am just saying, its not as easy as saying yeah let people refund things, they have to think about protecting their products and clients from piracy and scams, making agreements with hundreds of developers and publishers etc

 

 

Then, by the same logic, Valve can and does revoke the choice to withdraw once their service is provided. Also, nothing would stop the crackers from just switching between accounts so they can still continue to purchase and refund.

 

 

Yeah you could have unlimited accounts and just keep doing it, even getting new cards from different banks etc (though very traceable)

 

 

Anyway dont all get me wrong, I think a refund system would be great, but I am not sure how it could be implemented fairly for both the consumer AND the retailer and developers

[Tacitus]

Then, by the same logic, Valve can and does revoke the choice to withdraw once their service is provided. Also, nothing would stop the crackers from just switching between accounts so they can still continue to purchase and refund.

 

tl;dr: Valve isn't obligated to provide anything after they give you access to the game, as their service is providing access to games digitally. You get the game within 14 days, so their service is fulfilled and no longer withdrawable. That said, if you -really- want your money back, chargebacks on the card carrier level.

 

It's not the same logic - a one off opportunity to get a refund is not the same as systematic abuse.

 

But you have to keep returning it, meaning you cant keep use it while its being sent, physical items are COMPLETELY different to digitally downloaded media

 

Valve would have no way of knowing, say you dont refund cheap games but maybe 1 AAA game a month etc

 

I am just saying, its not as easy as saying yeah let people refund things, they have to think about protecting their products and clients from piracy and scams, making agreements with hundreds of developers and publishers etc

 

 

 

 

Yeah you could have unlimited accounts and just keep doing it, even getting new cards from different banks etc (though very traceable)

 

 

Anyway dont all get me wrong, I think a refund system would be great, but I am not sure how it could be implemented fairly for both the consumer AND the retailer and developers

 

If one really wished, they could juggle multiple physical items so as never to be left without one. Valve I'm sure are perfectly capable of tracking users' purchase/chargeback history.

 

If, as you argue, the hassle of doing it with physical items outweighs the potential benefits then the same applies to having multiple steam accounts and especially multiple bank accounts. You'd have to be extremely sad to make multiple bank accounts solely for the purpose of a few hours of a game on Steam.

 

I'm not saying I advocate a standard 14-day return policy as with physical items, but I am certain there are ways of accommodating an element of consumer protection within their ToS which would not have extensive negative consequences.

[mcmxcii]

This post reminds me of this screen grab i saw.