U.S. Supreme court overturns anti gay marriage laws.

[Vitalius]

Both Capulet and Montague.

Not really understanding how this connect to Romeo and Juliet. :|

[Bleedman0xx]

Where in the Bible does it say that it's followers must prevent all evil from happening if they see it? I know it says how to protect yourself from evil but nothing about protecting or saving others souls from Hell.

 

In fact the Bible says never to get involved. Let God handle it.

Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

 

Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.

[Art Vandelay]

Well, I am to vote with love in mind (in other words, to do what is best for people). If I consider something like this to be evil, and to hurt someone in said way, then I can't vote for it for that reason, because then I'm intentionally enabling evil.

There's a difference between intentional and unintentional, though people have argued the difference before and I won't go into that because the explanation is long and tiresome.

 

Do you believe that gay marriage is hurting people? I understand that both voting for and against it could hurt people to some degree.

 

Not really understanding how this connect to Romeo and Juliet. :|

I also don't understand how that was supposed to connect to what you said.

[whatthe_fuzz]

Well, when reading the Bible, the quickest way to show you don't know what you are reading is to just quote passages without understanding where they came from and why they were written.

The reason Christians don't do a lot of what the Old Testament says (such as having clean shaven portions of their face vs a beard on their chin) is because those were made for a specific reason that doesn't exist anymore.

The whole "don't make inscriptions on your body" thing was to separate them from the Pagans (people who worshiped multiple gods, such as the Babylonians and the Assyrians). Edit: So it could be visibly seen who followed who. This was the same reason the shaving thing was in place.

The whole "don't eat pork" thing was because pork was sickening back then. They basically lived in the sewage of society, so eating them was both spiritually and literally "unclean". 

Those are just a few examples, but homosexuality was directly called an "abomination". An abomination is "that which is devoid of God" and essentially means it's something God will have no part of or participate in. The idea of sex between a man and a woman is one in which two people's souls made a special connection beyond the physical world. This can only take place with God's power and since He won't do this in a homosexual's relations, it means that sex is simply for lust and nothing more. 

That's the idea behind it anyway, and one which I believe.

THIS IS PERFECT!

 

if you disagree with this man's beliefs do not insult him? he can believe whatever he wants. that's the problem with these debates. one side feels they are the majority and immediately insult the other side. we all have differrent viewpoints so instead of arguing just respect one others diversity. 

[calarahil]

Where in the Bible does it say that it's followers must prevent all evil from happening if they see it? I know it says how to protect yourself from evil but nothing about protecting or saving others souls from Hell.

 

In fact the Bible says never to get involved. Let God handle it.

If I recall correctly I haven't gone to church in a while but if I do recall that within the bible it does say to spread the word. That we are commanded to do so. Although I wouldn't go as far to say that its out to prevent all evil its to present a choice. Either way I think we ought to respect those who believe in what they do and by the same token respect those who do not believe the same things we do. People may not appreciate religion or care for religion but the fact is that religion has always been a pivotal part of society whether we deem it worthwhile or not faith is important to many and the more we persecute those who believe in something the more you are doing the same thing that those who disrespect those who are fighting for a cause the respect of the community (gays, lesbians, and bi-sexual alike). I'm essentially saying don't be a hypocrite and respect people because you have people expressing their opinions, and views and people hold those very dear to their hearts and you can really push beyond where you ought to on these forums by slightest movement of insensibility 

[calarahil]

THIS IS PERFECT!

 

if you disagree with this man's beliefs do not insult him? he can believe whatever he wants. that's the problem with these debates. one side feels they are the majority and immediately insult the other side. we all have differrent viewpoints so instead of arguing just respect one others diversity. 

Thank you sir!  You sir are win

[whatthe_fuzz]

Well, first of all, voting for anyone in most democracies will probably do quite a bit of evil.

 

Is it really evil to let people who want to pursue a relationship, which is viewed by the church as only for lust, allowing evil to happen? I've never really understood religion and how all of this is supposed to work.

 

the US was indeed founded on religion so the entire idea of seperation of Church and State is impractical. however at this point in time when the seperation is at a peak, it doesn't come down to religion but rather a moral standard. where is the line drawn? what's next? bestiality? if i were to love my dog and my dog loved me should we be allowed to marry? it goes against nature. there's a reason 2 men can't reproduce. 

 

[Vitalius]

Where in the Bible does it say that it's followers must prevent all evil from happening if they see it? I know it says how to protect yourself from evil but nothing about protecting or saving others souls from Hell.

 

In fact the Bible says never to get involved. Let God handle it.

That quote says never to take vengeance. That means when evil is done to us (we are hurt) we are to never attack back, or if evil is done to another, never to take vengeance for them and leave it to God to do these things for these things are His as He alone is righteous in doing them.

That has nothing to do with allowing/disallowing said evil to occur. This only talks about what to do if said evil does indeed occur.

To give you a real world example, applying it to this would be to not to attack the government or people who voted for gay marriage if it were to be legalised wholly and completely as vengeance for enabling evil.

Simply put, God calls us to abstain from all evil and to not tempt our brothers (that's everyone else) with evil. Things like this do that, essentially.

 

[whatthe_fuzz]

Thank you sir!  You sir are win

 

no YOU sir are win! haha

 

this is a great community built upon respect! this is what separates this forum from...well..."other" tech forums

[NeoZeon]

Not really understanding how this connect to Romeo and Juliet. :|

 

 

Do you believe that gay marriage is hurting people? I understand that both voting for and against it could hurt people to some degree.

 

I also don't understand how that was supposed to connect to what you said.

 

 

The Capulets and Moteagues prevented Romeo and Juliet from being together because of feud that started many years before the actual play took place.  The words written in the bible and the ideas of preventing gay marriage were written well before the government turned marriage into a legal issue.  Those who prevent others from progressing by holding onto ideology are today's Capulets and Montagues.   

[Vitalius]

Do you believe that gay marriage is hurting people? I understand that both voting for and against it could hurt people to some degree.

Yes. I am not worried about their relationships, as they will get over it. I am more concerned with their spiritual health rather than their emotional health. 

Things that are to exist forever vs things that are finite and minute. It's a simple choice really.

 

The Capulets and Moteagues prevented Romeo and Juliet from being together because of feud that started many years before the actual play took place.  The words written in the bible and the ideas of preventing gay marriage were written well before the government turned marriage into a legal issue.  Those who prevent others from progressing by holding onto ideology are today's Capulets and Montagues.   

Nice connection there. :P Not that I agree with it. Still a great connection based on your views. :)

[NeoZeon]

 

the US was indeed founded on religion so the entire idea of seperation of Church and State is impractical. however at this point in time when the seperation is at a peak, it doesn't come down to religion but rather a moral standard. where is the line drawn? what's next? bestiality? if i were to love my dog and my dog loved me should we be allowed to marry? it goes against nature. there's a reason 2 men can't reproduce. 

 

 

 

Read the first amendment. 

[Art Vandelay]

 

the US was indeed founded on religion so the entire idea of seperation of Church and State and impractical. however at this point in time when the seperation is at a peak, it doesn't come down to religion but rather a moral standard. where is the line drawn? what's next? bestiality? if i were to love my dog and my dog loved me should we be allowed to marry? it goes against nature. there's a reason 2 men can't reproduce. 

 

 

Yes, when I have consentual sex with another man, it is the exact same thing as if I went out and did my neighbor's dog (which would also be rape since a dog can't consent). 

 

Also, I would assume that you would want to ban all forms of contraception, in addition to possibly banning purely recreational sex entirely, since sex is only there for reproduction. You'd never see a dolphin having sex just because it feels good. 

 

seriously, that argument sounds like something a bad troll would have come up with.

 

 

Yes. I am not worried about their relationships, as they will get over it. I am more concerned with their spiritual health rather than their emotional health. 

Things that are to exist forever vs things that are finite and minute. It's a simple choice really.

 

Well, seeing as I don't even understand the concept of spiritual health, I'm not gonna try arguing this.

[Vitalius]

Read the first amendment. 

While I agree with you on that, amendments aren't always upheld (looks at 2nd amendment).

:|

Edit:

My point is that using amendments is somewhat pointless because they are subjective. 

[calarahil]

I'd also like to add a food for thought. If something is right and then over time society lives differently does that make what was right wrong? I would think not what was right was always right. However that withstanding perhaps over time understanding and acceptance of what was wrong may make the difference between what was considered right more acceptable to both parties. 

[calarahil]

Also I'd like to quote the Declaration of Independence.

 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

[Art Vandelay]

While I agree with you on that, amendments aren't always upheld (looks at 2nd amendment).

Yeah, the practicality of letting civilians have fighter jets is a little over the top. It's still being upheld to a degree, with mostly reasonably restrictions, though.

[whatthe_fuzz]

Read the first amendment. 

freedom of religion? yes shockingly i'm quite familiar with it. HOWEVER that doesn't mask the FACT that america was founding on Christianity. I'm not saying follow my religion or die. in no means am i forcing my beliefs on anyone. i am however stating that this country was founded on a moral guide lines that just so happen to correspond with Christian beliefs so to blame Christianity is irrelevant. the only thing to blame is morality. in todays society we are rapidly change the moral basis which this country was based on. 

[Vitalius]

freedom of religion? yes shockingly i'm quite familiar with it. HOWEVER that doesn't mask the FACT that america was founding on Christianity. I'm not saying follow my religion or die. in no means am i forcing my beliefs on anyone. i am however stating that this country was founded on a moral guide lines that just so happen to correspond with Christian beliefs so to blame Christianity is irrelevant. the only thing to blame is morality. in todays society we are rapidly change the moral basis which this country was based on. 

I see this as true as well.

Example:

Compare scantily clad women of the 20's to today. Pretty stark difference.

Compare the rate of bastardized children (children with no fathers) back then to now. Same thing.

I could go on. 

[Art Vandelay]

freedom of religion? yes shockingly i'm quite familiar with it. HOWEVER that doesn't mask the FACT that america was founding on Christianity. I'm not saying follow my religion or die. in no means am i forcing my beliefs on anyone. i am however stating that this country was founded on a moral guide lines that just so happen to correspond with Christian beliefs so to blame Christianity is irrelevant. the only thing to blame is morality. in todays society we are rapidly change the moral basis which this country was based on. 

The first amendment still states that no religion should be promoted over any other. Some of the principles of religion are universal, but regardless, basing a law that is effectively entirely based on the teachings of one religion goes against the intentions of the first amendment.

[calarahil]

freedom of religion? yes shockingly i'm quite familiar with it. HOWEVER that doesn't mask the FACT that america was founding on Christianity. I'm not saying follow my religion or die. in no means am i forcing my beliefs on anyone. i am however stating that this country was founded on a moral guide lines that just so happen to correspond with Christian beliefs so to blame Christianity is irrelevant. the only thing to blame is morality. in todays society we are rapidly change the moral basis which this country was based on. 

Agreed and that shouldn't deter either side from having a belief in something. By one side telling the other that they can't believe in something because its not up there moral code and then the same thing being said by the other side doesn't make much logical sense. For those who this matters to this whole discussion impacts the United States and really no one else so we can agree on the standpoint that freedom means something quite different here and you may disagree with it and thats fine but it doesn't take away the fact. 

[Vitalius]

The first amendment still states that no religion should be promoted over any other. Some of the principles of religion are universal, but regardless, basing a law that is effectively entirely based on the teachings of one religion goes against the intentions of the first amendment.

Well technically it's multiple religions.

And as I said, those aren't always upheld for various reasons.

[calarahil]

The first amendment still states that no religion should be promoted over any other. Some of the principles of religion are universal, but regardless, basing a law that is effectively entirely based on the teachings of one religion goes against the intentions of the first amendment.

 

They don't though read things like the bill of rights, the declaration of independence, the constitution. They are very non specific about which religion other than to basically say that people have a creator which could be a number of different beings amongst different faiths. 

[Vitalius]

Well, it's been fun talking with you guys, but I'm tired.

I'm gonna go watch One Piece and sleep. Later.

[Art Vandelay]

Well technically it's multiple religions.

And as I said, those aren't always upheld for various reasons.

I think that the constitution should always be upheld. It was put in place as a safeguard to prevent laws that violated the principles that the country was builton from being put into place.