A bit overwhelming coming from cheap headphones

[MaxBunny]

I'm in the market for new headphones coming from cheapos that are dying and it's all a bit confusing. As an audio noob I don't have any particular standards, but since I have a budget for a better one I'm going to upgrade and naturally want the best bang for the buck.

 

My problem is: how exactly do you determine the sound quality of products from descriptions/specs? Using all of that "bass, high, mids, lows, ohms, amps, Hz, impedence, channels, music theory, and sound theory" thinga-ma-jingies that may or may not factor into it. Or maybe some of those things only apply to sound cards and not headphones/speakers? :huh:

 

I'm confused about how some people recommend generic headphones or how they say a $30-$50 pair sounds better than some $200 ones. What specs determine that if it's not arbitrary? Why this one over that one? Read the FAQ and watched all of the videos (techquickie, logan, etc.). It's a lot to digest but I don't want to just buy something based on recommendations or because someone is tired and gave up (e.g, last FAQ question). I have too many to choose from with that pool anyhoo and just want to make a more informed decision..which I admit is difficult with my background but still, to be humored at least would be nice.

[Kyuubixchidori]

-snip-

whats your budget?

 

My personal recommendation is what the go to is in high end audio, audio techinica m50s. honestly yeah theres better, but I went into stores, tried 400$ bose, and honestly cant tell the difference. 

[MaxBunny]

whats your budget?

 

My personal recommendation is what the go to is in high end audio, audio techinica m50s. honestly yeah theres better, but I went into stores, tried 400$ bose, and honestly cant tell the difference. 

Cheers. but I don't need nor want anymore recommendations. I just want what I asked for.

[Kyuubixchidori]

Cheers. but I don't need nor want anymore recommendations. I just want what I asked for.

well, to answer your question, you cant judge sound quality on just numbers. what sounds good is subjective. some people love flat headphones, others cant stand it. 

the typical example is that some people hate heavy bass boosted headphones, in that case they will say my 7$ in ears are better than beats. but to someone who loves bass, beats will sound better than 1000$ rare earth magentic-magical-driver perfectly balanced headphones. 

 

best bet would be to try them. go to stores like best buy. yeah, they will mostly be the beats, and other major artist headphones, but they also will have other brands like bose, and you can start to get a idea. 

[theodoro]

I don't like when i hear "this 50$ headphone sounds better than 200$ ones" because it might be an overpriced pair of headphones that costs 200/400$ and it sounds like poop. The real comparison is between these-very-good-50$ and some other good 40/60$ headphones. 

Just see some recomendations at your budget and then try to understand how each headphone will sound like (you can see the frequency responce)
Get 5/10 headphones at your list, decide what sound signature you like and finally try to understand which are more comfortable (or durable, efficient etc...)

[SSL]

Specs don't determine audio quality; nor does price. Basically it comes down to what sounds good to you with what you listen to. The only way to determine that is to try lots of things. Do no expect that another persons experience can reliably inform your own beyond generalities.

[MaxBunny]

well, to answer your question, you cant judge sound quality on just numbers. what sounds good is subjective

So lets use your M50's for example. What makes them better than a $20 Sony's or the $79.99 HyperX Cloud? How would they be compared to a $300 Bose or a $150/equally priced Astro/Turtle Beach/Beyerdynamics?

 

Good and bad are subjective. But saying "I don't like bass" is the opinion and "this has a lot of bass" is the observation. So I do think we can learn about them based on the observations/descriptions that let us know in what ways it stands out.

 

 

Just see some recomendations at your budget and then try to understand how each headphone will sound like (you can see the frequency responce)

Get 5/10 headphones at your list, decide what sound signature you like and finally try to understand which are more comfortable (or durable, efficient etc...)

I'll be buying them online anyway so I'm not going to get any feel for them nor any comparisons with other products other than visual and anecdoctal. If it is possible to use specifications then that will be helpful, but otherwise it'll be a completely blind purchase. Preferably not on recommendations alone.

[Kyuubixchidori]

So lets use your M50's for example. What makes them better than a $20 Sony's or the $79.99 HyperX Cloud? How would they be compared to a $300 Bose or a $150/equally priced Astro/Turtle Beach/Beyerdynamics?

 

-cracks fingers- welp, example time.

 

with my experience, 20$ skullcrushers(i believe), had fake vibrator things to simulate bass, wanted to stomp on the immediately for being so gimmicky. never used hyperx cloud, but my brother had 60$ turtle beaches, where very uncomfortable, and sounds "tinny" guess it didn't sound real at all. 

 

honestly once you break the 100$ for anything but gaming headsets, they will all generally sound good. compared to other headphones that are 200+, you just gain build quality, and possibly comfort. the only pair i liked more was some high end bose i tried in a apple store. Forget the model, but it was 250+ sounded marginally better then my m50s, but it had noise cancellation. this feature is really great, but makes me feel sick. if you can handle it, id highly recommend noise cancellation. my 50s block out enough noise i can block out a lawn mower though. so no issues there.

 

IE, better than sub 100$ because it literally does sound better. most over 100, and everything over 200, your paying for the name, or quality, or both. I honestly can barely tell, or cant tell the difference between my headphones and all the celebrity endorsed $200+ headphones. honestly sounds like it could just be a EQ change. so the M50s sound as good as everything else, but doesnt come with a huge price tag. they only lack nice earpads. they isolate noise, but are not the most comfortable thing in the world. 

[theodoro]

So lets use your M50's for example. What makes them better than a $20 Sony's or the $79.99 HyperX Cloud? How would they be compared to a $300 Bose or a $150/equally priced Astro/Turtle Beach/Beyerdynamics?

 

Good and bad are subjective. But saying "I don't like bass" is the opinion and "this has a lot of bass" is the observation. So I do think we can learn about them based on the observations/descriptions that let us know in what ways it stands out.

 

 

I'll be buying them online anyway so I'm not going to get any feel for them nor any comparisons with other products other than visual and anecdoctal. If it is possible to use specifications then that will be helpful, but otherwise it'll be a completely blind purchase. Preferably not on recommendations alone.

Well, that's an "easy" question. If you spend a lot of time trying different headphones you will pick up the differences easier over time. 

The M50 have a nice tight and accurate bass, with clear mids and nice crisp highs. It's a night&day difference between M50 and the best 20$ headphones. Now compairing  the m50 to some beyerdynamics, it gets interesting. 

I believe that the M50 still have tighter bass, but the beyerdynamic's lows to mid frequencies are a bit smoother IMO and i personally prefer it. At the higher frequencies both headphones (let's say DT770/DT990 & M50) have some spikes that makes the sound more "exiting" but makes it also a bit agressive and sometimes artificial. 

Technically i would say that the M50X are "better" headphones because it has a more detailed sound, but i would take the beyerdynamics any day. It's all about comfort for me, and i also like the sound signature more (but they are pretty similar). 

(i cannot compair to the gaming headphones that you mentioned, because i never heard any of them)

[SSL]

more detailed sound

 

I've yet to hear someone reliably explain what this means. It seems to be the go-to phrase for "I think it sounds better, but I can't describe how".

[xtroria]

-cracks fingers- welp, example time.

 

with my experience, 20$ skullcrushers(i believe), had fake vibrator things to simulate bass, wanted to stomp on the immediately for being so gimmicky. never used hyperx cloud, but my brother had 60$ turtle beaches, where very uncomfortable, and sounds "tinny" guess it didn't sound real at all. 

 

honestly once you break the 100$ for anything but gaming headsets, they will all generally sound good. compared to other headphones that are 200+, you just gain build quality, and possibly comfort. the only pair i liked more was some high end bose i tried in a apple store. Forget the model, but it was 250+ sounded marginally better then my m50s, but it had noise cancellation. this feature is really great, but makes me feel sick. if you can handle it, id highly recommend noise cancellation. my 50s block out enough noise i can block out a lawn mower though. so no issues there.

 

IE, better than sub 100$ because it literally does sound better. most over 100, and everything over 200, your paying for the name, or quality, or both. I honestly can barely tell, or cant tell the difference between my headphones and all the celebrity endorsed $200+ headphones. honestly sounds like it could just be a EQ change. so the M50s sound as good as everything else, but doesnt come with a huge price tag. they only lack nice earpads. they isolate noise, but are not the most comfortable thing in the world. 

 

1. $200+ celebrity-endorsed headphone (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF QUINCY JONES BECAUSE ALL HAIL Q701) = Half the price for headphone, another half for ads + paying the celebrity.

 

2. For me the diminishing return happens after $300-500 headphones, where more money can give you better sound but more often than not they simply give you a sound preference than overall better sound quality

 

3. I'd never touch noise cancelling headphones except if you can't wear IEM comfortably at all. You could even get custom art audio one ($260) + impression ($50-70) + ego boost (the thing is custom yo) which I believe will sound better than bose QC series

[DigitalHermit]

@OP

 

Specs has some part to play... Basically, what you'd want to look at are the following key points:

 

Driver - This is what makes the sound... There are various types but the Dynamic Driver is the most common out there that you'll find... And you will most likely be getting a pair with this type of driver...

 

Frequency Response - Frequecy response can be said to be the 'character' of a certain pair of headphones... A supposed ideal frequency response is said to be flat, but that varies from person to person... Choose a pair with a frequency response curve that suits what you listen to most commonly... i.e. The Superlux HD660 is a good all rounder with slightly emphasized bass, and flat-ish mids; the Beats Solo HD have well emphasized bass, but underwhelming mids and slightly diminished highs which makes them sound great for certain genres, but absolute rubbish for others.

 

Design - this is how the headphone looks... Does it have round or oval earcups? Is it open-back or closed-back? Is it an on-ears or an over-ears? etc. Design can also affect the sound of the pair. i.e. closed back headphones tend to have punchier bass compared to open-back, but open-back headphones tend to have a wider sound stage (which makes them ideal for gaming)

 

Comfort and Build Quality - This is how the headphone feels... A good sounding pair that feels uncomfortable and breaks easily is automatically a deal-breaker....

 

These factors are what I look at and and I've tried around 50 pairs of headphones at a few local stores... I personally use a cheap pair from Philips (Philips SHL-3100) along with an equalizer to make it sound close to an ATH-M50...

[creatip123]

Simple answer: you can't (tell sound quality from data/numbers)

 

Here's an analogy: this cake got egg, flour, baking powder, chocolate, cream, and sugar in it. Now tell me how tasty this cake is.

 

The only answer is to try them on. Now since a lot of people got no privilege of going to an audio store or audio meets to test them out, so they resort to the next best thing, which is other people's opinion, reviews, etc. Of course this is always hit and miss. It's like, 'hey there's a new Italian diner opening, is it good?' Your friend might say it's good, but turns out it's not your taste. Something like that.

[xtroria]

I've yet to hear someone reliably explain what this means. It seems to be the go-to phrase for "I think it sounds better, but I can't describe how".

 

Try describing love then

[Kyuubixchidori]

1. $200+ celebrity-endorsed headphone (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF QUINCY JONES BECAUSE ALL HAIL Q701) = Half the price for headphone, another half for ads + paying the celebrity.

 

2. For me the diminishing return happens after $300-500 headphones, where more money can give you better sound but more often than not they simply give you a sound preference than overall better sound quality

 

3. I'd never touch noise cancelling headphones except if you can't wear IEM comfortably at all. You could even get custom art audio one ($260) + impression ($50-70) + ego boost (the thing is custom yo) which I believe will sound better than bose QC series

I havent played with noise cancelling much, I guess im just lucky(unlucky?) that i apparently cant hear any better than what my m50s can provide. or maybe its one of those things that your ears adjust to. like i had 2$ earbuds I had to use for a long time because i was broke, sounded worst then a blender. but after 3 weeks, I remembered that they sound like crap, but couldnt hear the crap anymore. they honestly sounded fine. wierdest thing in the world. 

 

edit:

Try describing love then 

 

the feeling I Had for my pc as I built it christmas morning. thats what love is. 

[SSL]

Try describing love then

 

Loving can be tight, if you follow me. But seriously, I've heard better descriptions of love than of audio.

[MaxBunny]

Snip

I see. That's actually a better explanation than most I've seen of people's own experiences. Cheers! Also, never buy something at full price @those turtle beaches. For sub-$100 while I don't buy things often I do watch sales and they tend to get heavily discounted more than the premium ones.

 

Try describing love then

What is love? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more. :wub:

 

 

Snip

I hope I won't have to try many. If one worked forever I would use that and never bother with them again. My electronics tend to have longevity and my needs are more towards durability than anything. :>

 

Simple answer: you can't (tell sound quality from data/numbers)

 

Here's an analogy: this cake got egg, flour, baking powder, chocolate, cream, and sugar in it. Now tell me how tasty this cake is.

 

The only answer is to try them on. Now since a lot of people got no privilege of going to an audio store or audio meets to test them out, so they resort to the next best thing, which is other people's opinion, reviews, etc. Of course this is always hit and miss. It's like, 'hey there's a new Italian diner opening, is it good?' Your friend might say it's good, but turns out it's not your taste. Something like that.

I was worried about that too. I'd never invest a lot of money into anyone's recommendations though. I'd rather gamble with their money than mine.

 

Snip

 

I see. Is there anything with an all around balanced/not-special frequency or is it part of the current technological limitations that to be good in one area it has to be crap in another?

 

Also, does anyone know what the cheapest mics would be with noise canceling features? That Zalman is awesome but I need a mic that would block out keystrokes, fans, or breathing noises. And not modmic/snowball. A sound blocker fuzzy for the Zalman would be enough if I knew what those things were called.

[DigitalHermit]

I see. Is there anything with an all around balanced/not-special frequency or is it part of the current technological limitations that to be good in one area it has to be crap in another?

 

 

I personally listen to a wide genre of music so an all-rounder is the best pair for me... It has mostly to do with the engineering of the drivers themselves and the only way to determine which sounds good is to try different pairs out yourself...

 

Also having a pair that is good in one area and crap in others can mean that it has crappy engineering or it's a specialist pair for that genre of music...

 

For example, I have 2 in-ears with me, a TDK EB300 and a Panasonic ErgoFit... For general listening, I use my ErgoFit because it's got a relatively well-balanced response, but for techno, I use my EB300 because of the extra-punchy bass and slightly diminished mids...

[theodoro]

I've yet to hear someone reliably explain what this means. It seems to be the go-to phrase for "I think it sounds better, but I can't describe how".

You simply hear things clearer and some times you can actually hear more things in the music. I am not talking about 500 or 1500$ headphones, because i've never heard any of them. 

If we couldn't notice which is the more detailed and better-sounding headphones, then we could just EQ all a 50$ headphones and we would be ok

The same question goes for the DACs. How do you describe the sound quality of a DAC?

Well, the sound is more "detailed".

[EmoRarity]

Loving can be tight, if you follow me. But seriously, I've heard better descriptions of love than of audio.

I love fucking around with you on this fourham, but I like to sit here a judge people. Love is just an extreme of preference. 

You simply hear things clearer and some times you can actually hear more things in the music. I am not talking about 500 or 1500$ headphones, because i've never heard any of them. 

If we couldn't notice which is the more detailed and better-sounding headphones, then we could just EQ all a 50$ headphones and we would be ok

Weeell, I've heard really good sounding $50 headphones and really good $5000 headphones, and I couldn't tell you where the money went. Yeah the sounded nice, but in no way better, just different. 

Which is what I think happens, you don't pay for better (With subjectively good headphones) you pay for different. My SRH1540's aren't better then my CHC's, just different. 

The same question goes for the DACs. How do you describe the sound quality of a DAC?

Well, the sound is more "detailed".

Weeeell, you don't really listen to the dac anyway. 

[theodoro]

I love fucking around with you on this fourham, but I like to sit here a judge people. Love is just an extreme of preference. 

Weeeell, you don't really listen to the dac anyway. 

Allow me to disagree. You listen to the dac just as you listen to you music. Actually the dac is usually the second part of the chain, after the digital audio and if it's something wrong with that, then it will mess up the rest of the chain. 

However, you are partially right. You don't want to listen to the dac. You need something neutral that won't affect the sound, but the dac is always a crucial part of the chain. 

But just because you don't want to listen to the DAC, doesn't mean you don't  

[EmoRarity]

Allow me to disagree. You listen to the dac just as you listen to you music. Actually the dac is usually the second part of the chain, after the digital audio and if it's something wrong with that, then it will mess up the rest of the chain. 

However, you are partially right. You don't want to listen to the dac. You need something neutral that won't affect the sound, but the dac is always a crucial part of the chain. 

But just because you don't want to listen to the DAC, doesn't mean you don't

Technically, but its all about how you slice your bread, you listen to a dac, but because "all dac's sound the same" and one or the other don't make a difference (Technically.) 

[theodoro]

Technically, but its all about how you slice your bread, you listen to a dac, but because "all dac's sound the same" and one or the other don't make a difference (Technically.) 

Yes indeed.

Human hearing isn't great so that's why most of the DACs sound the same. I think that's a good thing if you ask me

[EmoRarity]

Yes indeed.

Human hearing isn't great so that's why most of the DACs sound the same. I think that's a good thing if you ask me

Headfi would have a foot hold if the latter was true. 

[xtroria]

Yes indeed.

Human hearing isn't great so that's why most of the DACs sound the same. I think that's a good thing if you ask me

Headfi would have a foot hold if the latter was true. 

 

Well it's always a bit tough to judge "all DAC sound the same" because some might make the DAC to sound warmer or brighter and even neutral sounding because how the hell we know what's neutral exactly.