Generations Behind Time to Get Ahead

[TheVoiceofExile]

Hey Everyone!

 

I'm rebuilding my computer after a power surge numbered the days my SSD has left (because obviously if your SSD is going dead you need a whole new computer). And I am in need of some good advice. I am a member of the Red team, but the Blue/Green team is looking mighty tempting with the release of Haswell and the 700 series. I'm just not sure what to go with anymore. I'm after the best gaming performance but I am also after the best deal I can get. This has me on what feels like the world's tallest fence, and I need some additional help in making a few decisions on my hardware. 

 

I plan on doing this upgrade and not upgrading again for at least 3 years, probably 4-5 if the hardware lasts that long. I will eventually have dual 7970s, and around 16gb of Ram (4x4gb) for just looks alone. I won't be water cooling until my next upgrade 3-5 years from now, so air performance is a factor. I also plan on OC'ing everything I get to a certain temperature threshold, so that needs to be a factor as well. Here is what I have going on right now:

 

Case: ThermalTake Chaser MK-1

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ socket

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 Quad-Core AM3 3.2ghz-3.8ghz (depends on the day)

-Cooler: Xigmatek Dark Knight I

RAM: 2x2gb OCZ Gold 1600 DDR3, 2x4gb GSKILL Sniper 1600 DDR3

Video Card: XFX Radeon 5770 1gb 256-bit XXX Limited Edition (Totally hit 975mhz with it, then MSI afterburner was like NOPE no GHz for you)

HDD: Western Digital Blue 640gb 7200RPM Sata II (storage drive)

SSD: OCZ Vertex 60gb Sata III (boot drive)

Sound Card: ASUS Xonar D1 7.1 Channel

PSU: OCZ Stealthstream 700w

 

Now I plan on keeping the Case, and the sound card. But that is about it. This is where I need the advice. I have some choices to make.

*I would like to note I am OCD over my color coordination. Which is currently Blue and Black, with a tad bit of silver/grey thrown in for accents. 

 

1. I can keep my current motherboard, grab and 8320 (I don't mind OC'ing it up to the 8350). I have heard however that even the 8300 series can bottleneck performance in games when you get up to the 7970s and running more than 1 card. I have no idea how true this is. Which brings me to my other option. I can switch teams and go Blue with either an Ivy bridge 3570k or a Haswell 4670k and get a new motherboard. This is literally, and I mean literally, double the price of going with an 8300 from AMD. Which is what is turning me off from it. I have a couple questions that go along with this:

-Is there a substantial performance difference between the 8350, 3570k, and 4670k?

-Is PCI Express Gen III worth the switch? 

-Will any of those 3 CPUs limit my 7970 or dual 7970s?

-Any other information/advice you may want to include is appreciated, I love learning about computers.

 

2. I plan on grabbing 8gb of RAM from the start, which I know will be fine. But just pure aesthetics opinion on this one. which looks the best iyo:

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145345 (personal favorite)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104231

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233196

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231477

 

Please try to keep performance in mind with these as well, I know different brands do perform differently. 

 

3, Now I am after a CPU cooler as well, the fact that the Dark Knight I was reflective means it has tarnished and doesn't look so good anymore. So if you have a recommendation aside from the Dark Knight II, keeping with the blue/black/silver theme, that'd be great :D. The might be willing to sacrifice some looks for a substantial performance increase. 

 

4. I am pretty sure I'm going with the 7970 ghz edition. 4 free games, performs back and forth with the 670, 680, and 770. However I have been on the fence with the 7870 since it is 100 dollars cheaper and only about 20% weaker than the 7970. Remember I will eventually have 2 of these, so Xfire and SLI TDP and performance scaling is a factor. Opinions here are appreciated. 

 

5. I found a 2TB Seagate Barracuda for 100 bucks, WD doesn't have anything like that I know Seagate has some pretty good performance. Not much here but if you have any recommendations I'm looking for a SATA III 1TB+ HDD. 

 

6. Solid States are what get me. I like the looks of the Kingston HyperX drives, but the OCZ Vector matches my build theme completely. I'm fine with painting the outside of the drive in the case of the Samsung 840 Pro (that orange square >_>). So I am looking for a 120/128gb SSD that performs like a champ and looks great while doing it. 

 

7. Power supplies. I am after a PSU that is strong enough to one day power 2 7970s OC'd, fully modular, and preferably Corsair so I can get a set of those individually sleeved cables. I would like it to already have blue on it, and not be orange or something, but I have no problems painting it away. I've been looking at the Corsair AX850. But I don't know if that has enough juice to do the job. 

 

I think that covers everything I'm confused or indecisive about. Here is a nice list of what I have put together so far:

 

RED TEAM:

 

Case: Same

Motherboard: Same

CPU: AMD FX8350 Octa-Core 4ghz

-Cooler: Xigmatek Dark Knight II (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233029)

RAM: 8gb (2x4gb) Corsair Vengeance (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145345) 

Video Card: MSI R7970 TF 3GD5/OC BE Radeon 7970 3gb (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127732)

HDD: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200RPM SATA III (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148910)

SSD: Kingston HyperX 3k 128gb (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239045)

PSU: Corsair AX850 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139015)

 

 

BLUE TEAM:

 

Case: Same

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-D3H (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128591)

CPU: Intel Haswell 4670k i5 Quad (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116899)

-Cooler: Xigmatek Dark Knight II (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233029)

RAM: 8gb (2x4gb) Corsair Vengeance (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145345) 

Video Card: MSI R7970 TF 3GD5/OC BE Radeon 7970 3gb (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127732)

HDD: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200RPM SATA III (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148910)

SSD: Kingston HyperX 3k 128gb (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239045)

PSU: Corsair AX850 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139015)

 

 

The other blue team alternative is an Ivy Bridge version but that is not as important. I really, really, really, really, really, really (really), want to keep this under 1100 dollars. But if there is that big of a difference going Blue then I can crack that number. Of course the further under 1100 we can go the better, because that means the sooner I can get it and start my build log :D. I'd like to know anyone's opinions, advice, words of wisdom, and thoughts on what I am aiming to do and if there is a better way to do it. Many thanks in advance. (Small Note: I'm totally shooting for the LinusTechTips live stream build log of the week, there hasn't been an aircooled system that I have seen yet on there) Thanks again.

 

PS I'm selling my current hardware if anyone is interested. All of it is in good condition (aside from the SSD, which I think is what is failing atm) and not too old.

 

Exile

[Victor Golf]

1) It depends on how heavily threaded the applications you are running on your computer. For example: video rendering, editing, or cad work is going to leverage the extra cores that a CPU might have. So in that case, AMD is the way to go. Not to mention that the 8350 is way cheaper than the intel.

Intel has faster single threaded performance. This means that the 3570K/4670K will likely be better for modern games (assuming that modern games won't use more than four cores). However, with the new consoles coming out, both having eight core CPU's, games might start to utilize more threads and cores for CPUs.

Last thing on the CPUs, I have the same motherboard as you. I bought it with an FX8150 and I was stoked to have a fast processor like that. Next month, the 8350 was released. I was not happy about that. If I was you, I would either wait to catch a good deal on a haswell CPU or wait for steamroller.

2) Any of those choices would do if I was you unless you go with a large air cooler.

3) if I was looking at an air heatsync, I would look at the be quiet! Dark Rock 2.

Here is an urn boxing featuring the one, the only linus Sebastian!

As well as the Phanteks Thermal Solutions PH-TC14PE

As you can see linus was stunned by the epic finishes on both of those coolers.

4) I honestly can't comment here. I have a single 7950 and it runs everything I want it to at max settings.

5) hard drives are hard drives.

7)I suggest you take a look at the neutron GTX from corsair. Anything goes though. The corsair sad has a blue/black colour scheme.

8) 850W will be more than enough to power two 7970s. That particular power supply is a really good one too. Corsair has some of their powersupplies made by seasonic and believe me they are some of, if not the best powersupplies on the market. I have an AX 850 The fan dose not spin up unless you are gaming essentially ( 30% load).

Anyways, if I was you I would go with the 8350as they represent a value that intel is having a hard time beating at this price point. Not to mention you would be able to afford one of those air coolers Linus liked. That might make him look at your build and say, "Hey! I unboxed that!" And give you bonus points.

[WoodenMarker]

Go for the 8350. Switching to intel won't be that substaintial. Once you get to the i5/83xx's cpu speeds, bottlenecking gpus become less relevant since those cpus are quite fast.

 

Different brands and ram don't really perform differently--they're pretty much all the same. It's just the specs and overclockability that differentiates them but an CL9 1600 memory will do. Basically, RAM IS RAM.

 

The WD caviar blue/seagate barracuda are in all practicality, the same drive and costs the same. Depending on where your shopping, one will be cheaper than the other.

 

Unless, the ssd will be used as a scratch disk, the normal Samsung 840 is a great performer at a good price--you can skip the pro.

 

The 7950 is a better deal than the 7970 with similar performance. When both overclocked, the 2 cards are pretty close. Also, a 750w should do for a 79507970 crossfire but a 800w will leave headroom for the 7970's. I'm talking about bronze psu's here--no need to get silvers, golds, or platinums.

[VVR4ITH]

When are you buying?  You should consider asking for help again when you're at least 3 days before buying.  Prices change very quickly.

[TheVoiceofExile]

1) It depends on how heavily threaded the applications you are running on your computer. For example: video rendering, editing, or cad work is going to leverage the extra cores that a CPU might have. So in that case, AMD is the way to go. Not to mention that the 8350 is way cheaper than the intel.

Intel has faster single threaded performance. This means that the 3570K/4670K will likely be better for modern games (assuming that modern games won't use more than four cores). However, with the new consoles coming out, both having eight core CPU's, games might start to utilize more threads and cores for CPUs.

Last thing on the CPUs, I have the same motherboard as you. I bought it with an FX8150 and I was stoked to have a fast processor like that. Next month, the 8350 was released. I was not happy about that. If I was you, I would either wait to catch a good deal on a haswell CPU or wait for steamroller.

2) Any of those choices would do if I was you unless you go with a large air cooler.

3) if I was looking at an air heatsync, I would look at the be quiet! Dark Rock 2.

Here is an urn boxing featuring the one, the only linus Sebastian!

As well as the Phanteks Thermal Solutions PH-TC14PE

As you can see linus was stunned by the epic finishes on both of those coolers.

4) I honestly can't comment here. I have a single 7950 and it runs everything I want it to at max settings.

5) hard drives are hard drives.

7)I suggest you take a look at the neutron GTX from corsair. Anything goes though. The corsair sad has a blue/black colour scheme.

8) 850W will be more than enough to power two 7970s. That particular power supply is a really good one too. Corsair has some of their powersupplies made by seasonic and believe me they are some of, if not the best powersupplies on the market. I have an AX 850 The fan dose not spin up unless you are gaming essentially ( 30% load).

Anyways, if I was you I would go with the 8350as they represent a value that intel is having a hard time beating at this price point. Not to mention you would be able to afford one of those air coolers Linus liked. That might make him look at your build and say, "Hey! I unboxed that!" And give you bonus points.

1) That is an extremely good point, and would be exactly why I'm going to go for the 8350. Cheaper, will do everything I do right now great, and may perform better as newer games come out.

 

2) Going to have to keep track of my clearances then

 

3) Both of those look fantastic :D thanks for showing me

 

4) I've thought about those

 

5) True enough

 

7) I haven't really taken a look at Corsair SSDs, I'll check them out

 

8) Awesome, I plan on getting the individually sleeved cable kit from them 

 

Thanks for the help :D

 

Go for the 8350. Switching to intel won't be that substaintial. Once you get to the i5/83xx's cpu speeds, bottlenecking gpus become less relevant since those cpus are quite fast.

 

Different brands and ram don't really perform differently--they're pretty much all the same. It's just the specs and overclockability that differentiates them but an CL9 1600 memory will do. Basically, RAM IS RAM.

 

The WD caviar blue/seagate barracuda are in all practicality, the same drive and costs the same. Depending on where your shopping, one will be cheaper than the other.

 

Unless, the ssd will be used as a scratch disk, the normal Samsung 840 is a great performer at a good price--you can skip the pro.

 

The 7950 is a better deal than the 7970 with similar performance. When both overclocked, the 2 cards are pretty close. Also, a 750w should do for a 79507970 crossfire but a 800w will leave headroom for the 7970's. I'm talking about bronze psu's here--no need to get silvers, golds, or platinums.

Yeah the 8350 has been at the top of my list, I am curious though if the 8320 can be clocked just as high as the 8350. That'll save 40 bucks since I don't mind OC'ing. 

 

Looks it is then :)

 

Hard drives are hard drives like Victor said.

 

The main reason I was looking at the pro over the not pro for the Samsung 840 is because the pro has double the write speed of of the not pro. I'm not sure how it affects me, but it's just one of those feelings.

 

Is it really possible to clock a 7950 up to where you can OC a 7970? I know you can clock the 7950 up to the same speeds as a 7970, but I would think the 7970 would have more headroom.

 

When are you buying?  You should consider asking for help again when you're at least 3 days before buying.  Prices change very quickly.

I plan to buy within the next 2-4 weeks. I'm going to go piece by piece and wait for sales. I totaled it up and it is looking around 1200 dollars, hoping I can get it all for around 900-1000 by buying smart. 

[WoodenMarker]

Hard drives are hard drives like Victor said.

The main reason I was looking at the pro over the not pro for the Samsung 840 is because the pro has double the write speed of of the not pro. I'm not sure how it affects me, but it's just one of those feelings.

Is it really possible to clock a 7950 up to where you can OC a 7970? I know you can clock the 7950 up to the same speeds as a 7970, but I would think the 7970 would have more headroom.

Hard drives can have different cache and transfer speeds as well as access drives. You should watch out for those. Generally, the caviar blues/seagate barracudas are the go-to hdds though.

The write speeds aren't that important since you rarely write to an ssd. What's important is the random read speed in iops that determines how fast and snappy an ssd feels. The 840 is useful as a scratch disk because of it's faster random write speed which helps when you're constantly writing data.

The 7950 and 7970 when BOTH overclocked are quite close. The 7950 is significantly cheaper though.

[Victor Golf]

I forgot to point out that you can also go for an AIO water cooler like the H100i. They look sleek and perform good while not overhanging the ram.

[TheVoiceofExile]

Hey everyone, just an update. I have all the things ordered (finishing up the last bit of them), and it looks like I'll be starting the build process within a week or so. Keep an eye out for my build log. A quick question though, I need to paint over some oddly colored stuff, what kind of paint can I use/how can I fix it?