Dual Graphics Busted!

[Cptblitzkrieg]

Ok tech community, I'm building a budget HTPC in a Fractal Designs Node 804. Originally I was roped into the intreging new Kaveri APU architecture and designed an A10 7850k/R7 250 combo. However after further researching and reviewing benchmarks I decided to see what I could build for the exact same price as my previous dual graphics design. My results are as follows:

On Newegg an A10 7850k and R7 250 total $280. Also on Newegg I can pair a Radeon R9 270 with an AMD FX 6300 six core processor. This is quite an impressive pair that will blow the dual graphics build completely out of the water. But then to top it off when I started completing the build design I saved so much on an AM3+ motherboard and ram over an FM2 motherboard and ram that I can upgrade the R9 270 to an R9 280 and still come in at a lower complete build price point!! The only negative aspect is that I was unable to find a micro ATX AM3+ socket motherboard that would support the 2400Mhz ram I was running along side the Kaveri processor. So I will be running 1866Mhz of the same series.

Long story short if you are building a new PC from scratch you can run a Six Core CPU along side an R9 280 GPU for the same pricethat you can build a new Kaveri based "budget" PC platform.

I hope this is helpful to some who are considering a new Kaveri build. I would also like to note that I will still be watching APU's as they develop and look forward to a day when we can run an APU in dual graphics with a card like the R9 290 or greater! I am also interested to see what future smart phone graphics may look like with tiny APUs inside of them!! Hope this helps again, thanks for reading!

[Guest]

...

[Jerakl]

People don't tend to suggest APUs unless it's for general use or REALLY budget.

 

 

But thanks

[79wjd]

I was unable to find a micro ATX AM3+ socket motherboard

P.s. don't overclock that fx6300 of yours if you're on a mATX board. 

[AlwaysFSX]

Yeah this has been something I've truly questioned for a long time, but never decided to do the math on.

[Scouten]

yeah dual graphics basically died when it came out

[Sakkura]

Dual graphics was also worse affected by microstuttering issues than regular Crossfire, and AFAIK AMD has also been slower about implementing frame pacing for it. So yeah... dual graphics was never a good idea.

 

I do think you may have gone a bit overboard on the memory and RAM for the APU system though. APU builds are always going to be very price-sensitive, even to the point where DDR3-2400 may not be worth the premium (because at that point you could probably do better with dedicated graphics). And FM2+ boards are available down to less than $40, so it's not like AM3+ can really go much lower.

[aidenrelkoff]

P.s. don't overclock that fx6300 of yours if you're on a mATX board. 

why... i have a mATX and im doing great. maybe dont OC if you have a 4 pin cpu power for the 95Watt TDP cpus. but mines a 8 pin and its 125Watt and it overclocks like a champ. Heck, its running at 36* under standard gaming load, no joke. and its OC'ed to 4.2GHz

[Interfectorem]

Just don't try to do any crazy overclocks on that motherboard, mATX AM3+ motherboard tend to be poopy.

[79wjd]

why... i have a mATX and im doing great. maybe dont OC if you have a 4 pin cpu power for the 95Watt TDP cpus. but mines a 8 pin and its 125Watt and it overclocks like a champ. Heck, its running at 36* under standard gaming load, no joke. and its OC'ed to 4.2GHz

You also have an FX4130.

[Cptblitzkrieg]

I went with Asus hoping to try to clock it a little bit, I'll see what it does and post my results

[Cptblitzkrieg]

PC Part Picker Links

Kaveri Build

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/CptBliztkrieg/saved/88DQzy

FX 6300 Build

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/CptBliztkrieg/saved/fxvD4D

[MEC-777]

PC Part Picker Links

Kaveri Build

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/CptBliztkrieg/saved/88DQzy

FX 6300 Build

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/CptBliztkrieg/saved/fxvD4D

I would not trust that motherboard in the AM3+ build list. It's old and will be limiting in more ways than one. 

 

If you're doing an AM3+ build with an FX 6300 or higher, it is highly recommended that you use a decent quality 970 chipset motherboard at the very least. You will not find this in the mATX form factor since they don't exist. 

 

You may be better off looking at an Intel i3 paired with a B or H series board if you need mATX.

[DigitalHermit]

Here's how I see it...

 

Dual Graphics was not meant to be used from the get go... It's for absolutely low budget builds...

 

The proper way to do a Dual Graphics build is like this:

 

1: Get the base build... APU only, a single high-speed stick of RAM and a beefy cooler...

2: Get a 250/240 and a matching stick of RAM a few months later...

 

Dual Graphics is for people with a tight budget who need a decently performing PC ASAP but still have a low-cost upgrade that boosts performance significantly...

[aidenrelkoff]

You also have an FX4130.

... so? its a 125Watt, the 6300 is a 95Watt. power is not the problem if thats what your implying

[Hieb]

Ok tech community, I'm building a budget HTPC in a Fractal Designs Node 804. Originally I was roped into the intreging new Kaveri APU architecture and designed an A10 7850k/R7 250 combo. However after further researching and reviewing benchmarks I decided to see what I could build for the exact same price as my previous dual graphics design. My results are as follows:

On Newegg an A10 7850k and R7 250 total $280. Also on Newegg I can pair a Radeon R9 270 with an AMD FX 6300 six core processor. This is quite an impressive pair that will blow the dual graphics build completely out of the water. But then to top it off when I started completing the build design I saved so much on an AM3+ motherboard and ram over an FM2 motherboard and ram that I can upgrade the R9 270 to an R9 280 and still come in at a lower complete build price point!! The only negative aspect is that I was unable to find a micro ATX AM3+ socket motherboard that would support the 2400Mhz ram I was running along side the Kaveri processor. So I will be running 1866Mhz of the same series.

Long story short if you are building a new PC from scratch you can run a Six Core CPU along side an R9 280 GPU for the same pricethat you can build a new Kaveri based "budget" PC platform.

I hope this is helpful to some who are considering a new Kaveri build. I would also like to note that I will still be watching APU's as they develop and look forward to a day when we can run an APU in dual graphics with a card like the R9 290 or greater! I am also interested to see what future smart phone graphics may look like with tiny APUs inside of them!! Hope this helps again, thanks for reading!

 

I wouldn't use the AM3+ microATX boards if they were free.

Most of them don't have USB 3.0, most of them have atrocious QA and they have a high failure rate, they're incapable of handlign the FX-8000 chips or get much (if any) of an overclock out of the FX-4000 or 6000 chips...

 

But dual graphics can save a lot of money... the A10-7850K is just overpriced as fuck. It would be a great budget option if you were using something like the A8-7600 or the A10-5800K which are a good $60+ cheaper than the A10-7850K. Though you're not supposed to get it out of the gate. The idea with dual graphics is that you get somethign like an A8-7600 out of the gate... since there's nothing better you can get for $110. Then in like a year you can toss in a $90 R7-250 for a performance boost.

[Hieb]

why... i have a mATX and im doing great. maybe dont OC if you have a 4 pin cpu power for the 95Watt TDP cpus. but mines a 8 pin and its 125Watt and it overclocks like a champ. Heck, its running at 36* under standard gaming load, no joke. and its OC'ed to 4.2GHz

 

no it isn't. FX CPUs don't provide proper temperature readings. I guaranfuckingtee you that it is running a lot hotter than that.

Let me guess, on idle it's like 15? ... below room temperature?

[aidenrelkoff]

no it isn't. FX CPUs don't provide proper temperature readings. I guaranfuckingtee you that it is running a lot hotter than that.

Let me guess, on idle it's like 15? ... below room temperature?

no accually. its 27* right now, and i can verify that... i have used a lazer temp reader and shot it into the side of the exposed cpu, under prime 95 its 52* MAX under gaming load like i said its about 30-40. I can touch the heat sink right now and its like maybe 24*. also my pc case will greatly help with overclocking.

 

 

i forgot to mention. i also used a thermal imager, my dad has one, the hottest spot on my mobo is that little heatsink below the ram.

[slasher0161]

Dual graphics is a moot point now days in just about every way. And has setups that beat it, Intel has setups that beat it. The only reason for dual graphics is htpc on the ultra low budget whereby you need it right now. If you can afford dual graphics out the Ute you can afford a better dedicated card setup.

Also never trust amd board readings and that heatsink below your ram is important, that is your south bridge. That melts (which they often do) and the board is a brick.

 

Using AU prices, dual graphics setup and then comparable setups.

 

Dual graphics (A8 + 250)

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: AMD A8-6600K 3.9GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($109.00 @ CPL Online) 

Motherboard: ASRock FM2A88M-HD+ Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard  ($76.00 @ CPL Online) 

Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($88.00 @ CPL Online) 

Video Card: MSI Radeon R7 250 2GB Video Card  ($99.00 @ Centre Com) 

Total: $372.00

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-07 07:32 EST+1100

 

Pure gaming build, pentium aniversary + dedicated graphics

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Pentium G3258 3.2GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($75.00 @ PLE Computers) 

Motherboard: ASRock Z97M Anniversary Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($112.00 @ CPL Online) 

Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($88.00 @ CPL Online) 

Video Card: MSI Radeon R7 250 2GB Video Card  ($99.00 @ Centre Com) 

Total: $374.00

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-07 07:35 EST+1100

 

i3+ dedicated graphics (Slightly better rendering than above build, less room for upgrading)

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Core i3-4150 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($127.00 @ Centre Com) 

Motherboard: ASRock H81M-DGS Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($57.00 @ CPL Online) 

Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($88.00 @ CPL Online) 

Video Card: MSI Radeon R7 250 2GB Video Card  ($99.00 @ Centre Com) 

Total: $371.00

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-07 07:50 EST+1100

 

FX6300 + dedicated graphics

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor  ($125.00 @ CPL Online) 

Motherboard: Asus M5A78L-M/USB3 Micro ATX AM3+ Motherboard  ($75.00 @ CPL Online) 

Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($88.00 @ CPL Online) 

Video Card: MSI Radeon R7 250 2GB Video Card  ($99.00 @ Centre Com) 

Total: $387.00

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-07 07:53 EST+1100

 

Of the above builds the 6300 + dedicated is marginally better than the i3 or pentium; all of which are better than the apu build.

However having said that for just gaming the increased cost of the fx build will put the i3 or pentium builds in a better position as any possible stretch to the budget will allow the i3 or pentium to upgrade to a new gpu first.

If pure gaming is the goal the i3 build is a good choice, if you want to overclock the pentium build is a good choice and if you should stumble into the money to upgrade to an unlocked i5 later you can get a huge cpu upgrade without need for mobo change.

 

At this point from a pure numbers perspective it is just almost impossible to recommend amd for cpu.

 

With the fx build despite the 6300 and 8320 or 8350 all running AM3+ I would never recommend putting an 83xx chip into a micro atx AM3+ board.

Alternatively keeping an eye out for bargins here and there isn't necessarily a bad idea, I parted ways with my old i5 3570k + 7870xt rig for $1000 just because at the time I needed to down size to an itx rig. It is possible to jag some cheap hardware on the second hand market however without being able to inspect the rig or knowing the seller it can be hit and miss.