980 v. 780 Lightning

[aduman]

It's worth it. I'm going to keep my Tis until my step up ends though.

[JonU]

Here is a side-by-side comparison using that chart you linked and another from the same site when the card was actually released: 

 

 

The only time the 780 manages to beat the reference GTX980 is on Batman: Orgins, ComputeMark, and Heven 4.0 (only at 2560x1600 and even then it's only half a frame different).

 

Here is the actual image so it is easier to read:

 

[JonU]

It's worth it. I'm going to keep my Tis until my step up ends though.

 

Exactly what I would do. The improvements aren't enough imo to warrant upgrading until the next generation is released. I'm hoping the next generation is able to maintain the energy efficiency and make a solid push forward in performance.

[aduman]

Exactly what I would do. The improvements aren't enough imo to warrant upgrading until the next generation is released. I'm hoping the next generation is able to maintain the energy efficiency and make a solid push forward in performance.

You just described the "Big Maxwell"/ GM200 mate. I completely agree with you.

[i_build_nanosuits]

wrong image this one compare a 980 to a 980...

[JonU]

wrong image this one compare a 980 to a 980...

 

It does, but if you put it side by side with the chart @BiG StroOnZ linked you can do the comparison easily enough. That is what I tried to do in the first post by using photoshop to put them side-by-side, but it's a little difficult to read.

[i_build_nanosuits]

It does, but if you put it side by side with the chart @BiG StroOnZ linked you can do the comparison easily enough. That is what I tried to do in the first post by using photoshop to put them side-by-side, but it's a little difficult to read.

ohhh i see okay yea., sorry!

[JonU]

ohhh i see okay yea., sorry!

 

No worries.

[BiG StroOnZ]

 

you sound like a guru and i think you are somewhat crazy so i'm done typing to you...have a good day 

 

I'm crazy yet you ignore information that you can see with your own eyes and everyone else can see. Good job at name calling when you lose an argument. How typical.

 

 

Here is a side-by-side comparison using that chart you linked and another from the same site when the card was actually released: 

 

 

The only time the 780 manages to beat the reference GTX980 is on Batman: Orgins, ComputeMark, and Heven 4.0 (only at 2560x1600 and even then it's only half a frame different).

 

Here is the actual image so it is easier to read:

 

 

 

I was comparing the 970 to the 780. Not the 980 to the 780. Read first before you try to get involved!

 

 

Not once did I say a 780 is faster than a 980 lol. Good try though. A for Effort. I was talking about the 780 vs the 970 (and 780 Ti vs 980 in another part). And as you can see above, that still remains true for the 970. 1059MHz boost 780 matching and surpassing a 1216 boost 970.

 

Here's a stock 980, overclocked 980, mild overclocked 780 Ti and nicely overclocked 780 Ti:

 

1440P Heaven Benchmarks:

 

EVGA 980 SC, stock boosting to 1366MHz:

 

 

EVGA 980 SC OCed to 1480 core / 7600 memory:

 

 

GTX 780 Ti @ 1175 core / 6400 memory:

 

 

GTX 780 Ti @ 1294 core / 7000 memory:

 

 

an almost 1200 Core 780 Ti nearly matches an almost 1500 core 980. Then once the 780 Ti gets into the 1300MHz range, it's like there's no chance. What is a 980 going to have to hit 1700MHz to keep up, it's already at 1500MHz?

[JonU]

And why exactly are you comparing it to the 970 when the OP was considering the 980 vs. 780? Anyways, here are some benchmarks for the 970 from Guru3d.com. I hope this is sufficient, otherwise I don't know what else to say. You keep asking people to backup their claims that the 970 is better than the 780, well here you go. You can click on that link for the full review, but these are all the charts. If you notice, the 780 doesn't outperform the 970 anywhere. It matches it on a few tests, but never does the 780 come out ahead. And if you say that the 780Ti beats it, then how about we compare it to the 980 which has all of the new chip's performance enabled and then the 980 runs away from the 780Ti. The 970 is definitely the best bang for the buck currently available. The 780Ti doesn't really outperform the 980 until you run it in SLI. You say that I need to read first before getting involved? You need to go back and read the original post where the OP asked about the 980 compared to the 780. All these charts include all the cards mentioned in this debate. So now I have addressed your 970 vs 780 debate as well as the 980 vs 970 vs 780Ti vs 780 debate  @BiG StroOnZ

 

[DirtySHISNO]

So far 

 

Both overclocked. 

 

Take silicon lottery in hand and lets just assume 780 and 970 are on par.

[BiG StroOnZ]

And why exactly are you comparing it to the 970 when the OP was considering the 980 vs. 780? Anyways, here are some benchmarks for the 970 from Guru3d.com. I hope this is sufficient, otherwise I don't know what else to say. You keep asking people to backup their claims that the 970 is better than the 780, well here you go. You can click on that link for the full review, but these are all the charts. If you notice, the 780 doesn't outperform the 970 anywhere. It matches it on a few tests, but never does the 780 come out ahead. And if you say that the 780Ti beats it, then how about we compare it to the 980 which has all of the new chip's performance enabled and then the 980 runs away from the 780Ti. The 970 is definitely the best bang for the buck currently available. The 780Ti doesn't really outperform the 980 until you run it in SLI. You say that I need to read first before getting involved? You need to go back and read the original post where the OP asked about the 980 compared to the 780. All these charts include all the cards mentioned in this debate. So now I have addressed your 970 vs 780 debate as well as the 980 vs 970 vs 780Ti vs 780 debate @BiG StroOnZ

Maybe you should read more thoroughly to see where the argument arose. Instead of trying to get involved in something you are not a part of.

Those benchmarks are stock vs stock, which again if you read what I was trying to explain you would get the point that of course stock vs stock the 970 is faster than a 780 or the 980 faster than the 780 Ti. You cant compare a card like the 780 running at 800MHz boosting into the 900MHz range to a card like the 970 boosting into the 1200's to 1300MHz range its not a fair comparison. Obviously in this scenario the 970 is faster. Same applies to the 980. Which is the point of the 970 vs 780 GHz Ed graph and the Heaven Benchark arrangement. It shows that with more fair variables the 780 holds its own against the 970 and the 780 Ti agains the 980. You cant compare a card at 800MHz to a card at 1100MHz and say this card performs better. Of course it does, its not a fair comparison.

[i_build_nanosuits]

Maybe you should read more thoroughly to see where the argument arose. Instead of trying to get involved in something you are not a part of.

Those benchmarks are stock vs stock, which again if you read what I was trying to explain you would get the point that of course stock vs stock the 970 is faster than a 780 or the 980 faster than the 780 Ti. You cant compare a card like the 780 running at 800MHz boosting into the 900MHz range to a card like the 970 boosting into the 1200's to 1300MHz range its not a fair comparison. Obviously in this scenario the 970 is faster. Same applies to the 980. Which is the point of the 970 vs 780 GHz Ed graph and the Heaven Benchark arrangement. It shows that with more fair variables the 780 holds its own against the 970 and the 780 Ti agains the 980. You cant compare a card at 800MHz to a card at 1100MHz and say this card performs better. Of course it does, its not a fair comparison.

Newer cards runs at higher clock speed just like newer CPU's run at higher clock speed IT'S NORMAL THATS IS THE WAY IT SUPPOSED TO BE... INCREASING THE CLOCKSPEED AND LOWERING THE POWER CONSUMPTION BY REDUCING THE AMOUNT OF CUDA CORES NEEDED TO GET THE SAME PERFORMANCE IS THE WAY TO IMPROVE ON A NEW GPU ARCHITECTURE how many times will i have to explain that to you so that you get it?!

[Yakito]

Wow... I came to get some actual answers to the question in the Name of the Topic and this is what I got - a forum fight. Thanks a lot guys!
You were so helfpul...

So what's the answer?

It seems like 780 Lightning is not as good of an overclocker as you'd expect with the older version of Vram, limit on voltage and slightly lauder fans than the two fan GPUs.

[JonU]

Wow... I came to get some actual answers to the question in the Name of the Topic and this is what I got - a forum fight. Thanks a lot guys!

You were so helfpul...

So what's the answer?

It seems like 780 Lightning is not as good of an overclocker as you'd expect with the older version of Vram, limit on voltage and slightly lauder fans than the two fan GPUs.

The simple answer is if you have a 780 or 780Ti you should save your money and keep what you already have. If you were already in the market or have to have the latest and greatest then you can't go wrong with the 900 series.

[Face2Face]

Wow... I came to get some actual answers to the question in the Name of the Topic and this is what I got - a forum fight. Thanks a lot guys!

You were so helfpul...

So what's the answer?

It seems like 780 Lightning is not as good of an overclocker as you'd expect with the older version of Vram, limit on voltage and slightly lauder fans than the two fan GPUs.

 

I own a (1500Mhz capable) 780 Lightning, while it's an awesome card there is no reason to buy it over a GTX 970. The GTX 970 is a better all around card--- Period.

 

780/780Ti users looking to upgrade should wait for BIG Maxwell or AMD's next card.

[JonU]

Maybe you should read more thoroughly to see where the argument arose. Instead of trying to get involved in something you are not a part of.

Those benchmarks are stock vs stock, which again if you read what I was trying to explain you would get the point that of course stock vs stock the 970 is faster than a 780 or the 980 faster than the 780 Ti. You cant compare a card like the 780 running at 800MHz boosting into the 900MHz range to a card like the 970 boosting into the 1200's to 1300MHz range its not a fair comparison. Obviously in this scenario the 970 is faster. Same applies to the 980. Which is the point of the 970 vs 780 GHz Ed graph and the Heaven Benchark arrangement. It shows that with more fair variables the 780 holds its own against the 970 and the 780 Ti agains the 980. You cant compare a card at 800MHz to a card at 1100MHz and say this card performs better. Of course it does, its not a fair comparison.

 

Hmm yes, I'm pretty sure this is where it started:

 

Would you go from a 780 to a 780 Ti? Because it's basically the same thing as going from a 780 to a 980. Only difference is the new "features" as far as performance goes not much of an improvement. The only reason why it might look there is improvements based on the benchmarks available is because they are running the 700 series at stock clocks (boosting to like 900MHz) and comparing them to 900 series cards that are boosting into the 1300MHz range. 

 

Oh come on @ stock the GTX 970 let alone the 980 has such a stagering lead that even OCed the 780 would have a hard time closing the gap. Not to meantion that the 9xx series OC better than the 780 and there really is no competition here. 970 cheaper to boot.

 

 

While I wouldn't go as far to say that the 970 will beat an overclocked 780, I will say stock for stock the 970 outperforms the 780. If you put equal time into overclocking each card the 970 will generally outperform the 780 still (I say generally because you always have a card that loves to OC). Same goes for the 980 vs 780Ti.

 

Youre comparing cards at stock clocks, again who cares about stock clocks.

 

 

Apples to apples. Stock clocks are the fairest way to see how much of an improvement has been made between the last generation (700 series) and the current one (900 series). Is it a huge increase? Not in benchmarks until you get to the power consumption. Then that slight performance increase becomes impressive. I wouldn't go out and sell my 780/780Ti to get one of the new cards though. The performance gap is small enough that it would be smarter to wait until the next generation of GPU is launched. 

 

Finally, I have provided a few different sites that have benchmarked the 900 series. You keep referencing the same one over and over. Can you provide a link to that review? I'm sorry but if multiple sites are getting generally similar results (both stock and OC) then I would be more likely to believe their results. They generally have a standardized test bench that they use to test each GPU that comes through their office. The specs may vary from place to place, but you can compare results that particular place has obtained from each GPU they have tested. I would like to see any reputable site that says the 780/780Ti legitimately outperforms the 970/980.

Links:

Guru3d.com Gigabyte GTX970 G1 Gaming

Guru3d.com Nvidia Reference GTX970/980 review

OC3D Nvidia Reference GTX980 Review

 

Here is probably the best summary of the whole 700 series vs. 900 series debate from TinyTomLogan at OC3D: "The great thing about the GTX980 is that it is better than the GTX780, just in all the ways you might not expect. Performance is the most obvious one that people look for and there is no doubt that they GTX980 has bags of it. Some tests it's there or thereabouts, and in others it is just about the best we've seen from a single GPU. But it's not really aimed at the people who already have a GK110 in their system. It's aimed at those of you with a 6 series or earlier, and if that is you and you have been waiting patiently to see what the second generation after yours brings, this is the product to buy."

 

There is probably nothing any of us can say that will convince you otherwise, but hopefully if someone looks in this thread and reads the reviews and sees those benchmarks they will be able to see the facts for what they are. Until you can come up with a logical and valid response (with something to back it up), I'm done responding to your argument. Or better shoot me a PM so we can stop filling this thread with off topic crap.

[BiG StroOnZ]

 

Newer cards runs at higher clock speed just like newer CPU's run at higher clock speed IT'S NORMAL THATS IS THE WAY IT SUPPOSED TO BE... INCREASING THE CLOCKSPEED AND LOWERING THE POWER CONSUMPTION BY REDUCING THE AMOUNT OF CUDA CORES NEEDED TO GET THE SAME PERFORMANCE IS THE WAY TO IMPROVE ON A NEW GPU ARCHITECTURE how many times will i have to explain that to you so that you get it?!

 

Unfortunately for you, since all do you is make up crap. This is not the case, the 680 came in at 1000MHz base clock, and the 670 came in 915MHz base. While the 780 came in at an 863 base clock and the 780 Ti came in at a 876 base clock. Are you also saying that the 600 series had more Power Consumption that the 700 series? Because we know that isn't true at all. 

 

Hmm yes, I'm pretty sure this is where it started:

 

 

 

While I wouldn't go as far to say that the 970 will beat an overclocked 780, I will say stock for stock the 970 outperforms the 780. If you put equal time into overclocking each card the 970 will generally outperform the 780 still (I say generally because you always have a card that loves to OC). Same goes for the 980 vs 780Ti.

 

 

 

Apples to apples. Stock clocks are the fairest way to see how much of an improvement has been made between the last generation (700 series) and the current one (900 series). Is it a huge increase? Not in benchmarks until you get to the power consumption. Then that slight performance increase becomes impressive. I wouldn't go out and sell my 780/780Ti to get one of the new cards though. The performance gap is small enough that it would be smarter to wait until the next generation of GPU is launched. 

 

Finally, I have provided a few different sites that have benchmarked the 900 series. You keep referencing the same one over and over. Can you provide a link to that review? I'm sorry but if multiple sites are getting generally similar results (both stock and OC) then I would be more likely to believe their results. They generally have a standardized test bench that they use to test each GPU that comes through their office. The specs may vary from place to place, but you can compare results that particular place has obtained from each GPU they have tested. I would like to see any reputable site that says the 780/780Ti legitimately outperforms the 970/980.

Links:

Guru3d.com Gigabyte GTX970 G1 Gaming

Guru3d.com Nvidia Reference GTX970/980 review

OC3D Nvidia Reference GTX980 Review

 

Here is probably the best summary of the whole 700 series vs. 900 series debate from TinyTomLogan at OC3D: "The great thing about the GTX980 is that it is better than the GTX780, just in all the ways you might not expect. Performance is the most obvious one that people look for and there is no doubt that they GTX980 has bags of it. Some tests it's there or thereabouts, and in others it is just about the best we've seen from a single GPU. But it's not really aimed at the people who already have a GK110 in their system. It's aimed at those of you with a 6 series or earlier, and if that is you and you have been waiting patiently to see what the second generation after yours brings, this is the product to buy."

 

There is probably nothing any of us can say that will convince you otherwise, but hopefully if someone looks in this thread and reads the reviews and sees those benchmarks they will be able to see the facts for what they are. Until you can come up with a logical and valid response (with something to back it up), I'm done responding to your argument. Or better shoot me a PM so we can stop filling this thread with off topic crap.

 

You say even overclocked the 970 will outperform a 780 but I posted a graph with multiple games and benchmarks that proves that wrong. A 780GHz Ed matching a 970 @ 1220 Boost. Heck even look at Linus' review on the 970. 

 

Stock for stock in this particular case is not a fair contest. As I stated for the 9000th time, they run the 780 and 780 Ti at stock clocks on purpose. To make it look like these non-reference 970's and 980's perform that much better. This is because the stock 780 and 780 Ti are only boosting into the 900MHz range while the 970 and 980 non references are boosting into the high 1200's to the mid 1300's. Even the reference 970's and 980's are boosting into the high 1100's low 1200's.

Every single review you posted with the exception of Overclock3D runs stock vs stock. Now when you actually take a look at the Overclock3D results what do you see. The only time they give results of overclocking is in its own separate slide that has no other cards to compare it to. In the other games, they have overclocked cards, but the 900 series is not overclocked. Which is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about OC for OC. 

 

There is nothing I need to say, I provided factual information to back up by my claims. You people keep delivering the same stock for stock comparisons repeatedly. Which is not my argument. Anyone with half a brain will read this thread can look at the benchmarks I posted and make up their own mind based on the proper information available.

 

I've come up with plenty of logical and valid responses along with information to back up my claims. While you've delivered the same stock for stock benchmarks. You're done responding to my argument because you are another person proven wrong that jumped onto the 900 series hype train.  

[Mclegendary]

I heard MSI were waiting for a 980 ti because they are afraid of jumping the gun again with their big overclocking card. (Msi released a 780 lightning right before the 780ti came out and they released a 7970 lighting a few weeks before the 7970 ghz edition came out.)

[Face2Face]

The Tech YES City guy - replaced his GTX 780 Lightning with a Gigabyte 970 - He does a pretty good job with his review. Should help clear some things up.

 

 

 

 

[i_build_nanosuits]

nevermind