Why are you not pissed at Nvidia?

[BiG StroOnZ]

You are going to claim victory based on one program? Im guessing you have never compiled and analysed data before? Submit your score. Did you run Firestrike? Im guessing no because it didnt favor your point of view.

 

 

See the difference between us is that you are looking to win a argument by being bias towards your point of view. You are only willing to bench 1 or 2 programs.

I am looking to to review the scores from numerous sources, which i have already done. Fact is the 970 is a better card. It runs faster at stock and so far overclocks better on average. Among other obvious features. Does it make sense to sell a 780 to get it. Probably not but it is still a better card. You are acting like im the only one who thinks this. Lmao

 

 

You obviously haven't compiled and analyzed data. I given you multiple benchmarks, many different games, GPU bound benchmarks like Valley and Heaven and you are going on about one single benchmark by 3DMark. So what did you find from analyzing your data? The 970 has a weird advantage in 3DMark but loses in all games and GPU bound benchmarks. But I'm the one favoring a point of view?

 

Look at all the games Linus tested with it:

 

 

Look at the Valley Spreadsheet, with multiple 780's above your 970 @ 1600MHz practically.

 

 

Look at this benchmark done by another website:

 

 

But I'm the one favoring data because of one singular benchmark. 

 

You are one among many who think that because they jumped on the 900 series hype train. I rather be intelligent about my views, than follow the herd. LOL. Then Big Maxwell will come out and actually be worth people's money and then they will suddenly not feel so smart.

[Razzaa]

You obviously haven't compiled and analyzed data. I given you multiple benchmarks, many different games, GPU bound benchmarks like Valley and Heaven and you are going on about one single benchmark by 3DMark. So what did you find from analyzing your data? The 970 has a weird advantage in 3DMark but loses in all games and GPU bound benchmarks. But I'm the one favoring a point of view?

Look at all the games Linus tested with it:

Look at the Valley Spreadsheet, with multiple 780's above your 970 @ 1600MHz practically.

Look at this benchmark done by another website:

But I'm the one favoring data because of one singular benchmark.

You are one among many who think that because they jumped on the 900 series hype train. I rather be intelligent about my views, than follow the herd. LOL.

You dont even have the balls to post a benchmark.

Linus Overclocks all the cards and then benches. Do you even understand why that would be flawed and a poor example. The garbage expressview graph has a 780 winning against a 970 in Firestrike and Firestrike extreme at stock clocks. Very good data there bud.

Do you even know why a 780 would perform better in Valley or Heaven? Do you understand what Valley favors?

[BiG StroOnZ]

You dont even have the balls to post a benchmark.

Linus Overclocks all the cards and then benches. Do you even understand why that would be flawed and a poor example. The garbage expressview graph has a 780 winning against a 970 in Firestrike and Firestrike extreme at stock clocks. Very good data there bud.

Do you even know why a 780 would perform better in Valley or Heaven? Do you understand what Valley favors?

 

You are totally clueless about the argument aren't you. The only reason why the 970 and 980 perform so much better in benchmarks at stock clocks is because they are clocked significantly higher than the 780 and 780 Ti. This makes it appear they are so much better. Only a blind person wouldn't be able to tell such a fact. Wow you are aren't kidding, a 800MHz clocked card got beaten by a 1100MHz clocked card, golly gee wiz. The 780 and 780 Ti are clocked at 800MHz and are boosting into the 900MHz range. Non-reference 970's and 980's are clocked in the 1200's and are boosting into the 1300's. Even reference 900 series cards are clocked in the 1100's and are boosting to the 1200's. Of course it looks like the 980 and 970 have a significant advantage. They aren't fair tests to begin with.

 

It's only garbage data because just like you are the person to point the finger, you are actually the one trying to favor data. 

 

Are you just mad that you owned 290 and made a side-grade to a 970? I understand you are trying to defend your purchase, but that doesn't make it a smart decision or worthy to defend.

[Razzaa]

You are totally clueless about the argument aren't you. The only reason why the 970 and 980 perform so much better in benchmarks at stock clocks is because they are clocked significantly higher than the 780 and 780 Ti. This makes it appear they are so much better. Only a blind person wouldn't be able to tell such a fact. Wow you are aren't kidding, a 800MHz clocked card got beaten by a 1100MHz clocked card, golly gee wiz. The 780 and 780 Ti are clocked at 800MHz and are boosting into the 900MHz range. Non-reference 970's and 980's are clocked in the 1200's and are boosting into the 1300's. Even reference cards are clocked in the 1100's and are boosting to the 1300's. Of course it looks like the 980 and 970 have a significant advantage. They aren't fair tests to begin with.

It's only garbage data because just like you are the person to point the finger, you are actually the one trying to favor data.

Are you just mad that you owned 290 and made a side-grade to a 970? I understand you are trying to defend your purchase, but that doesn't make it a smart decision or worthy to defend.

You are fucking dense lol. You just said the 970 is a better card. Why argue if you agree? I dont need to justify any purchase. I sold my 290 for 400$. It was an easy decision. Its funny because the only people who argue thisvare the ones who spent 500$ for a 780 only to get out classed by a 330$ card.

Im done with this argument. You win bud. Your 500$ discontinued card would be better if it had the clocks.........but it doesn't.

[BiG StroOnZ]

You are fucking dense lol. You just said the 970 is a better card. Why argue if you agree? I dont need to justify any purchase. I sold my 290 for 400$. It was an easy decision. Its funny because the only people who argue thisvare the ones who spent 500$ for a 780 only to get out classed by a 330$ card.

Im done with this argument. You win bud. Your 500$ discontinued card would be better if it had the clocks.

 

I'm dense, but you can't even grasp the freaking argument. I said the 970 appears to be the better card because it is clocked significantly higher. At stock vs stock. But you gives a damn about stock versus stock? We are enthusiasts we overclock our cards. I want to see OC vs OC results. That's what makes or breaks an enthusiast's purchase. Even at lower clocks the 780 is at least matching and surpassing the 970 at higher clocks. You say you don't need to justify your purchase but you are defending this card to the grave like it's your child. I didn't spend 500 on my card, I got it for much less than that. You say we are getting outclassed but based on proper benchmarks by enthusiasts that doesn't seem to be the case. What advantage do you have? More VRAM? Better power consumption, some fancy features that you are never going to actually use? Neato. I play games, I want more fps at higher graphical settings period. The 970 and 980 doesn't do that compared to the previous gen cards. Not enough to justify an upgrade for someone who owns a 780 or 780 Ti already; heck, even someone who owns a 290 or 290X. Big Maxwell is coming, and that's what people should be saving their money for who own a 700 series card or a 290 series card. Hell, who even knows what AMD has got up their sleeves.

 

Regardless, the beauty about being an enthusiast is there's a certain extend where you can decide what clocks you want your components to run at because of overclocking. So lucky for me and you, I get to decide if it has the clocks and whether or not it will be better. As a matter a fact we all do because we all have the ability to overclock our cards and gain free performance. It's really that simple.

[Razzaa]

I'm dense, but you can't even grasp the freaking argument. I said the 970 appears to be the better card because it is clocked significantly higher. At stock vs stock. But you gives a damn about stock versus stock? We are enthusiasts we overclock our cards. I want to see OC vs OC results. That's what makes or breaks an enthusiast's purchase. Even at lower clocks the 780 is matching the 970 at higher clocks. You say you don't need to justify your purchase but you are defending this card to the grave like it's your child. I didn't spend 500 on my card, I got it for much less than that. You say we are getting outclassed but based on proper benchmarks by enthusiasts that doesn't seem to be the case. What advantage do you have? More VRAM? Better power consumption, some fancy features that you are never going to actually use. Neato. I play games, I want more fps at higher graphical settings period. The 970 and 980 doesn't do that compared to the previous gen cards. Not enough to justify an upgrade for someone who owns a 780 or 780 Ti already; heck, even someone who owns a 290 or 290X. Big Maxwell is coming, and that's what people should be saving their money for who own a 700 series card or a 290 series card. Hell, who even knows what AMD has got up their sleeves.

Regardless, the beauty about being an enthusiast is there's a certain extend where you can decide what clocks you want your components to run at because of overclocking. So lucky for me and you, I get to decide if it has the clocks and whether or not it will be better. As a matter a fact we all do because we all have the ability to overclock our cards and gain free performance. It's really that simple.

Lol you are too much. I said it was a faster card and your argument is it is only faster because it is clocked higher..........oooook. We will agree to disagree on what is the better card. Once more cards get out there and more data is available we can revisit this argument. Thanks for the conversation though.

Edit: Still dont see your benchmarks lol

[JonU]

@Razzaa You might as well just stop trying to prove anything with him. I had the exact same argument with him in another thread and gave up. What some people are failing to realize is just how much of an improvement the 900 series is. Just because it didn't have a significant jump in performance doesn't mean it is a bad card. With that sizable drop in power consumption, Nvidia has opened a whole realm of possibilities with this chip and hopefully the chips following can maintain this kind of efficiency. Then people get hung up on the fact that since there is no 980Ti that the 980 is the successor to the 780Ti. I feel it should really be compared to the 780. Before the 9xx cards were launched the 780 cards were running ~550 bucks. The 980 launched at $550, so how can you not compare it to the card at which the price points essentially match. Before the 9xx launch I planning on running a 780, but now I'll definitely go with the 980. It's a free upgrade since I didn't already have the 780. Would I be pissed at Nvidia if they released a card that runs 15% faster than the 980 a week after I bought the 980? No, but I also understand that is how things work and there is no reason to be pissed at a company for continuing to advance their product (had to squeeze in an answer to the original question). The only reason I would get mad at them is if the released xyz card and then said that the next update would cause my card to quit functioning.

[Matthew12106]

Because I'm getting a 970 and I liked your grass joke... That's pretty much it

[rossbunting35]

Just let me begin by saying that I have not read the entire thread, more like glossed through it so if I'm repeating something that's already been said excuse me. Maxwell may not be a huge performance increase over the Kepler GPU however, it could be an important stepping stone towards 4k gaming being a viable option. The way I see it, it's pointless having a gpu that is capable of smooth 4k but needs its own generator and liquid nitrogen cooling to achieve that performance. Maxwell is a chip that can handle high res (over 1080p) happily while staying relatively cool, to me this seems like a logical step towards 4k. Another point I would like to make is that I noticed some people comment that they don't care about power draw and heat and that it's only raw performance they want, well isn't that what the r9 290x was? The main reason that people give to new builders to get an nvidia gpu is that they are cooler and more efficient than AMD so why would anybody be mad at nvidia for delivering a card that runs that way?

[HippY]

The only thing that stop me buying a 780Ti right away ( 980 peformance for £50 cheaper) is the VR support.

I am really interested in the consumer version of the ocolus, and while 780Ti SLI should run it well, 970 SLI should be  sufficient and cheaper too, while supporting the VR features and technologies

[MC_loud]

Only thing I'm pissed at is the lack of two DVI-D ports on the reference GTX 980, which drove me toward the GTX 970. Other than that, you can't complain about power consumption or price of the 970

[Darthmullet]

They laid the ground work for a lot of performance increases in the future, that's why. They have a card that uses fewer hardware components than the 780 Ti that consumes less energy, puts out less heat, and still beats it because it is faster. 

 

Eventually they won't be able to shrink the dye any more, then what? Performance has to be gained somehow. The R&D they did will now carry over. They'll release a 980 Ti that will have the same amount of CUDA cores and what not as the 780 Ti, but this time they'll all be way faster. It will blow it out of the water. Then they'll move down to 20 or 14 nanometers and do it all over again. 

 

I used an R9 295x2 for several months, and I really liked the card. While it had a really great cooling system, I think its time to work on the real problems not just the symptoms. AMD is now playing serious catchup -- if they can't improve their cards' clock speeds then come they will really lose at CES next year when the above happens with Nvidia.

 

I agree its a bit disappointing that they seem to be "milking" us with these cards -- IMO the Ti cards should be their true flagships rather than making enthusiasts buy these then upgrade later. The 980 should have been released with its full capabilities -- its current engineering combined with the full amount of power that the 780 Ti has. But I forgive them because its the first card I'm willing to buy that has HDMI 2.0 for my 4k television.

[That Norwegian Guy]

The 970 is fine. I consider it a good "generational bridge" card. And it is finally a properly priced card with 4GB of VRAM from Nvidia, even if it took them way too stonking long to get there.

 

However, the 980 is a huge waste of everyone's time.

 

What I really want is a MARS-like dual GPU card with the 970 GPUs, and 4GB of usable VRAM. That would finally be the affordable card that can run Star Citizen properly.

[Midnight]

Many enthusiasts, including myself, have expected a leap in performance with the new GTX 900 Series. However we did not get it.

Why did you expect such a performance leap? Amdahl's law is slowly coming into effect and Moore's law is going to end soon...

 

In fact a more often than not the GTX 780 Ti beats the GTX 980.

Really now? I looked at multiple reviews and that doesn't seem to be the case. Sure, 780 ti can beat the 980 in certain cases, but not "more often than not".

 

Also Nvidia claimed that 900 Series would be cheaper... That applies for the GTX 970. But not for the GTX 980. The cheapest 780ti costs

429€ (Asus DCU II) and the cheapest GTX 980 costs 516.9 € (Galax Reference cooler) . (May change over time)

I don't think ANY company would outright claim that because if you don't match the hype, oftentimes the sales goes down by a lot (e.g. AMD Bulldozer). It was probably a (crappy) rumor.

 

So it's not cheaper and it's not faster... 

 

What did we get then? 

 

A more powerefficent GPU? Yes. But as Linus said it 'Imporovements in powerconsumtion are boring' (Pharaphrasing)

Some new features that we are not likely to use?

Improvements in power consumption are boring? I suppose it would be, for laypeople anyway. For engineers, it is an incredible feat to achieve similar or greater performance at a lower power draw and it is pretty insulting to say "this is boring".

On a further note, Linus does claim he is not an engineer (which is blatantly obvious), but perhaps he should give the respect the engineers deserve when they achieve something good because without them, you wouldn't have ANY tech to begin with. (I don't mean to say I hate Linus. I like him or else I wouldn't use this forum, but few of the things he say are rude/disrespectful/wrong.)

 

Why is nobody mad? Especially Youtubers and reviewers are suprisingly positive about it. I expected many to crush the GTX 980 in their review.

 

Enlighten me. Why are you not mad? I'm am sure Nvidia has something better up their sleeve but this is a dick move. 

 

I feel like Nvidia is not the enthusiast's place to be anymore. The grass looks a lot more green on the red side now... (See what I did there?)

 

 Do you agree with it me? What's your opinion on the GTX 900 Series?

 

 

Tell me all about it.

I'd like to see you coming up with a GTX 980 or any good piece of tech and have other people shit on your product...

 

Nvidia probably does have something better, but that's how many companies work in order to maximize profit. They can release the greatest and the latest product, but if there is a good opportunity to make more profit with an "inferior" product, they WILL take it.

 

In short, no, I do not agree with you and you should stop being juvenile. I think the GTX 900's are very good and I will probably buy a 970 some time next year.

[pedronery80]

And aren't the gtx980 future drivers bring more better performance?

[Mclegendary]

But what you've forgotten is that the 980 and 970 are the medium size core. It is expected that the 970=780 and 980=780ti because Nvidia still haven't rolled out the 980ti or the titan 2.

[Helios79]

Most of us are enthusiasts and since when do enthusiast give a crap about powerconsumtion? 

 

You're not much of an enthusiast if you aren't looking for ways to reduce heat and power consumption in your PC build. There are those that wish to reduce noise, heat, and size in their builds. Are they not enthusiasts? Somehow your definition of the word enthusiast is misconstrued.

[Sintezza]

But why does the GTX980 out performs the GTX780Ti in allmost every gaming benchmarks out there then?

Or in some benchmarks it seems to be on par with it

 

Stock vs stock cards.

Are all those reviewers spoiling wrong information then?...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIUWaXO9DJc

[Helios79]

If the reviewer is sponsored, expect he/she to throw in a little FUD about their benchmarking results. They have to make the product look good, otherwise they could risk losing their sponsorship. How do you know if it will perform better than the previous generation? Buy the card and compare it for yourself.

[Eddprzz]

Many enthusiasts, including myself, have expected a leap in performance with the new GTX 900 Series. However we did not get it.

In fact a more often than not the GTX 780 Ti beats the GTX 980.

Also Nvidia claimed that 900 Series would be cheaper... That applies for the GTX 970. But not for the GTX 980. The cheapest 780ti costs

429€ (Asus DCU II) and the cheapest GTX 980 costs 516.9 € (Galax Reference cooler) . (May change over time)

So it's not cheaper and it's not faster...

What did we get then?

A more powerefficent GPU? Yes. But as Linus said it 'Imporovements in powerconsumtion are boring' (Pharaphrasing)

Some new features that we are not likely to use?

Why is nobody mad? Especially Youtubers and reviewers are suprisingly positive about it. I expected many to crush the GTX 980 in their review.

Enlighten me. Why are you not mad? I'm am sure Nvidia has something better up their sleeve but this is a dick move.

I feel like Nvidia is not the enthusiast's place to be anymore. The grass looks a lot more green on the red side now... (See what I did there?)

Do you agree with it me? What's your opinion on the GTX 900 Series?

Tell me all about it.

why wudd u expect a huge difference it's the same thing every year they increase it by a little and that's it u must b like a little kid if u expected something different this year

[Zaku77]

I've been guilty of this flawed thought process too, but the 980 isn't replacing the 780ti, it's replacing the 780--which it fully outclasses. The fact that it is already matching/beating the 780ti with way lower power consumption seems pretty impressive to me. Now if you want the successor to the 780ti, then we'll just have to see what the 980ti is capable of. And be ready to drop $700+, of course. :3

[Jey R.]

People are focusing too much in performance that they are not quite grasping the essence of the 9xx series. Features is one of them, tdp, efficiency, cool. Geeez these are awesome.

And let's bring about an average. Not all 780 will clock as high so averagely speaking that is why, for a fair comparison, you overclock the stock values and performance.

Everyone here knows not everyone will overclock the same. It's a lottery draw. However we see how these 9xx can easily overclock quite high...

Focus, lll

[Belmire]

Nvidia has stated that a single cuda core from the Maxwell architecture is about 1.4x faster than a cuda core from Kepler, hence the lower power / fewer cores / better performance from less cores this time around.

[techenthused73]

What is anoying is that Nvidia in their improvements just really only give us what matches the games currently out or are coming out.  You never really get a card that will serve you for some time.  It almost seems game companies are egging on the card makers and vice versa.  Yes you can sli when a card gets cheaper but then you are limited by V-Ram and clock speeds.  The only real way to beat this is to only play and buy games a year after their out and get the previous x80 card when it is discounted due to the newer card. Also you are paying at least half price for those games.

 

Same goes for the monitor capabilities and the cards.

[I/O]

What is anoying is that Nvidia in their improvements just really only give us what matches the games currently out or are coming out.  You never really get a card that will serve you for some time.  It almost seems game companies are egging on the card makers and vice versa.  Yes you can sli when a card gets cheaper but then you are limited by V-Ram and clock speeds.  The only real way to beat this is to only play and buy games a year after their out and get the previous x80 card when it is discounted due to the newer card. Also you are paying at least half price for those games.

Well it would stand to reason based on various factors that the TW3 is going to need SLI 980x to really enjoy it proper. I always buy games after they have been out for a long time when they go on sale on Steam this way the games are patched up and the bugs are fixed. Steam Summer Sales get allot of money from me. The only game I am getting day one is GTA V when it comes out.