Why do people hate AMD cpu's so much

[Faa]

was the fx overclocked 

yes

[loepa]

I don't hate them. I quite like them actually. Because AMD tends to be better at virtualization (virtual amchine) all modern amd have AMD-V, but not all modern Intel have VT-X (or something i kinda forget the name) which AMD-V and VT-X helps virtualization a lot.

 

But AMD does Runs hotter, Consume more power. But they're better at overclocking if  you have great cooling(at least in the past, i never use amd since 5 years ago).

 

So in some casses i prefer Intel but in other I prefer AMD.

[TheRagingGamer]

yes

still find it hard to believe considering i have already made 2 threads about this:

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/172174-intel-pentium-g3258-vs-amd-fx-6300/

https://teksyndicate.com/forum/cpu/intel-pentium-g3258-vs-amd-fx-6300/180818

[patrickjp93]

One reason: Single core performance. Any other reasons are stupid.

Theyre not cutting cores off and moving it somewhere else, thats hilarious for someone "studying" computer science. Theyre making them as a whole and they disable things like cores/cache by lasercutting them and the die size remains the same. A CPU with a smaller die size is on a total different wafer.

You notice it that theyre using a 3rd ring bus and a 2nd memory controller and another cache thing. 12c is a E5, and the other two are E3's by the way.

They laser-cut cores to disable them when moving down from entry level Xeons to enthusiast consumer without removing them. This is true. There have been some studies done on Pentiums showing evidence their cores were cut from I5s, and the same with some I3s. This may or may not have to do with simply building similar chips and maximizing usage of a wafer, but it's not entirely impossible to cut an I5 into 2 I3s. The upper-tier Xeons do have fundamentally different designs and will be on separate wafers within a production run, but there are still only 3 manufacturing processes running, and this comes from a family friend who works at the fabrication labs.

[Enderman]

only those are more than double the price of an 8320/8350

That's why I said AMD is good for budget PCs. If you want the best performance overall and you have the money for it there is no doubt you have to go to intel.

[Faa]

still find it hard to believe considering i have already made 2 threads about this:

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/172174-intel-pentium-g3258-vs-amd-fx-6300/

https://teksyndicate.com/forum/cpu/intel-pentium-g3258-vs-amd-fx-6300/180818

I ain't seeing anyone linking a proper source to back their claims up. People yelling that a 6300 is better for BF4 without telling you by how much or providing you a creditable source is something fanboys would only do.

 

They laser-cut cores to disable them when moving down from entry level Xeons to enthusiast consumer without removing them. This is true. There have been some studies done on Pentiums showing evidence their cores were cut from I5s, and the same with some I3s. This may or may not have to do with simply building similar chips and maximizing usage of a wafer, but it's not entirely impossible to cut an I5 into 2 I3s. The upper-tier Xeons do have fundamentally different designs and will be on separate wafers within a production run, but there are still only 3 manufacturing processes running, and this comes from a family friend who works at the fabrication labs.

You don't need studies for that; the i3 shares the same die size with the i5 meaning the cores/cache are lasercut coming from the same wafer. S2011 cpu's have nothing to do with mainstream cpu's.

How exactly are you transforming a i5 into two i3's when there's only one memory/pcie controller available for mainstream cpu's? Cut them in two? Yeah cut the ring bus as well and expect it to work.

[DigitalHermit]

Skylake will be that Intel solution with a projected 60% performance increase over Broadwell which is projected 40% improvement over Haswell, and Skylake is basically Intel's Kaveri.

 

We'll see when it comes out...

inb4 intel abandons x86-64bit

[patrickjp93]

I ain't seeing anyone linking a proper source to back their claims up. People yelling that a 6300 is better for BF4 without telling you by how much or providing you a creditable source is something fanboys would only do.

You don't need studies for that; the i3 shares the same die size with the i5 meaning the cores/cache are lasercut coming from the same wafer. S2011 cpu's have nothing to do with mainstream cpu's.

How exactly are you transforming a i5 into two i3's when there's only one memory/pcie controller available for mainstream cpu's? Cut them in two? Yeah cut the ring bus as well and expect it to work.

Face palm* on the I7 socket 2011. I said those come from low-end Xeon 8-core chips that didn't pass inspection. And they do.

You can find a second memory controller on quad-core parts if you look hard enough. It's a few million transistors and is a tiny portion of any chip. The ring bus can be partially disabled to account for missing cores via microcode as well.

It would be really cool if Intel just released a chip with everything on it. Overclockable 8-core Xeon with FPGA attached and an iGPU. That's an enthusiast workstation chip.

[TheRagingGamer]

Face palm* on the I7 socket 2011. I said those come from low-end Xeon 8-core chips that didn't pass inspection. And they do.

You can find a second memory controller on quad-core parts if you look hard enough. It's a few million transistors and is a tiny portion of any chip. The ring bus can be partially disabled to account for missing cores via microcode as well.

It would be really cool if Intel just released a chip with everything on it. Overclockable 8-core Xeon with FPGA attached and an iGPU. That's an enthusiast workstation chip.

that will only happen when intel starts to feel that they are loosing money. They are not pushing any limits 

[patrickjp93]

We'll see when it comes out...

inb4 intel abandons x86-64bit

Won't happen for several decades if ever. ARM still can't hold a candle to Intel's I3 line. Intel needs to shave another 14 nearly useless instruction set extensions from Atom for phones, and then they'll get the power efficiency they need to go head to head with ARM in the wattage department. ARM's chips have all been rising in power usage, and performance gains have been plateauing since the 7th generation, hence going quad-core. ARM will have to abandon staying RISC or find a truly revolutionary solution to gain performance and stay in the 5-watt budget for phones. Die shrinks alone won't save Qualcomm and Samsung or AMD from Intel or Nvidia (I'd like to see a Tegra in a phone someday).

that will only happen when intel starts to feel that they are loosing money. They are not pushing any limits

I really don't understand them not making vPro standard. The security features are palpable, and there's no reason it should interfere with other operations.

[TheRagingGamer]

I really don't understand them not making vPro standard. The security features are palpable, and there's no reason it should interfere with other operations.

i think they need something better than silicone. So then they could make cpu's with less than 10nm process, and the clock speed would be amazing. 

[D3MON]

 

You kinda got it wrong here; 8320 is equal to a 6300 and 4300 mostly so basically you're paying twice as much for the 8320 for no gain except in 10 games with half of them only showing a difference with a 400$ GPU and with a simple 7850 you're justifying as good as nothing with a 8320 over a 4300. Most 8320 owners I've seen are pairing it up with a cheap board and a cheap GPU, cores that are adding nothing is hardly making sense. Also don't forget about the i5 4440 which can run flawlessly on much cheaper boards than 8320's need, single core performance is still far ahead of 9590's so it's a better value than a 8320 here for gaming.

 

In a dying market like the desktop thats mostly only being used for gaming, almost dead for mainstream use why would you go with a CPU like the 8320 where of its full potential hasn't been unleashed yet that people have been hoping for since 2011 when you can have for a few more pennies a CPU thats provides up to twice as much performance?

 

Whats the point of your CPU besides its better for rendering and your question is answered.

 

"8320 is equal to a 6300 and 4300"

how is an 8320 equal to the lesser fx's? when i see the others get a 730cb then it'll be the same, but i upgraded from a phenom cus while the performance in games might be very similar (havent tested) my transcoding times are less then half, considering phenoms are usually around £60 second hand spending the extra 43% to gain 110% more performance is worth it id say.

"Most 8320 owners I've seen are pairing it up with a cheap board and a cheap GPU"

my board cost me £65 and my gpu cost me £105 (in fact because i traded in a 7770 which I bought from a friend for a profit basicaly) its only cost me MAX £44, £109 for a gpu AND board that can play crysis 2 on extreme at 65fps avg at 1080p while remaining stable at 4.6 I'd say is the deal of the century, my gpu & board & cpu cost me less than a 3770k was at the time...how much cheaper do you want me to be?

as for the 4430, im not just talking about gaming, if i was buying intel for what i do, it would be a second hand 2600k for £120. it was nearly the chip i was going to buy when i first decided to make a full on rig. (but i got a phenom x4 for 1/4 of the price  )

if you're all about single core games you'd be no better off than with a pentium-k...

as for a few more pennies, in proper games where you're gpu limited as you should be theres no difference between the 95th percentile and in games that are single threaded you're going to limiting the power of your gpu, not great for gaming i'd say.

also single core performance depends on IPC and clock speed, taking clock speed out of it and talking about ipc improvements from the various architectures, talking about the 9590 as an underperformer to the intel chip is like saying that when the speed limit is 70mph (uk) a honda civic is more efficient than a bugatti veyron...no s*** but which would you rather have for driving to the shops AND trackdays if you had to chose?

in summery this is why I have this cpu.

i get similar (sometimes better sometimes worse) multithreaded performance to a 3770k in some tasks which considering i was going to get a 2600k is great. especially considering a 3770k is 150% more expensive.

in the games i play which are mostly multithreaded (some better than others but gpu limited the same) it doesnt make any difference wether i have an 8320, a 6300, a 9590, or a 2500k, im limited by my gpu and considering i like 45-70fps on high with AA on my games and get it im doing well, im still going to get an msi 270, 280x or 290 to match my build and set me up for 1440/1600p in the future.

in single threaded tasks like ermmm.... chrome? no thats multithreaded, oh winzip! err even if im only 66% of the speed of an i5 that costs the same price, if an i5 unzips a file in 10 seconds im done in 15....who cares about 5 seconds, either a files so compressed it takes ages to unzip anyway (and thats where the biggest difference will be in intels favour) but in that case it takes ages either way.... or the file size isnt compressed much in which case it takes 4 seconds on intel and 6sec on mine. im not going to nitpick about a few seconds in a task that i might do once a month when the majority of everything else i do would be no different.

it comes down to what everyone does, if i was building a htpc now id be getting a celeron dual core or some low end apu, before choosing my 8320 i considered selling my pc and starting scratch with a second hand 3930k (£220), but while its performance might be double my 8320 (at say 4.2 ghz each) it would cost me atleast 3x more considering a £200-£250 board and 4 sticks of ram so after much diliberation i decided to go bang/buck.

so essentially the 4770k(etc) is just for people that need more performance than an i5 for rendering a faster but not so much that they might need an i7-e...okay

[DigitalHermit]

Won't happen for several decades if ever. ARM still can't hold a candle to Intel's I3 line. Intel needs to shave another 14 nearly useless instruction set extensions from Atom for phones, and then they'll get the power efficiency they need to go head to head with ARM in the wattage department. ARM's chips have all been rising in power usage, and performance gains have been plateauing since the 7th generation, hence going quad-core. ARM will have to abandon staying RISC or find a truly revolutionary solution to gain performance and stay in the 5-watt budget for phones. Die shrinks alone won't save Qualcomm and Samsung or AMD from Intel or Nvidia (I'd like to see a Tegra in a phone someday).

 

Well, you're comparing a low wattage mobile chip to a desktop/notebook chip... Like I said, we'll see when things roll out (most likely within 5-10 years)... I'm not favoring any of them because of brand loyalty... I just want the biggest bang for the buck within my budget (which is measly in comparison to everyone else (can't even afford the cheapest quad core i3))...

 

I'm not in the 'enthusiast' market (although I consider myself an enthusiast), which makes the i7 out of the question until I have an absolute need for it....

 

Also, Intel and AMD chips have a substantial price difference in my country where 20USD can make or break a deal...

[patrickjp93]

i think they need something better than silicone. So then they could make cpu's with less than 10nm process, and the clock speed would be amazing.

Silicon will take us down to 5nm according to industry experts. Intel is optimistic in thinking it will handle 3nm. IBM will have a graphene chip out before 2018 mark my words.

[patrickjp93]

Well, you're comparing a low wattage mobile chip to a desktop/notebook chip... Like I said, we'll see when things roll out (most likely within 5-10 years)... I'm not favoring any of them because of brand loyalty... I just want the biggest bang for the buck within my budget (which is measly in comparison to everyone else (can't even afford the cheapest quad core i3))...

I'm not in the 'enthusiast' market (although I consider myself an enthusiast), which makes the i7 out of the question until I have an absolute need for it....

Also, Intel and AMD chips have a substantial price difference in my country where 20USD can make or break a deal...

And I understand that position. I do. I just know ARM is at a crossroads, and x86 is going to become too bloated at some point, but the crossover for mainstream computing and server computing is decades away if it's ever going to happen.

[TheRagingGamer]

Well, you're comparing a low wattage mobile chip to a desktop/notebook chip... Like I said, we'll see when things roll out (most likely within 5-10 years)... I'm not favoring any of them because of brand loyalty... I just want the biggest bang for the buck within my budget (which is measly in comparison to everyone else (can't even afford the cheapest quad core i3))...

 

I'm not in the 'enthusiast' market (although I consider myself an enthusiast), which makes the i7 out of the question until I have an absolute need for it....

 

Also, Intel and AMD chips have a substantial price difference in my country where 20USD can make or break a deal...

where do you live, if you don't have lots of money buy used (just dont buy gpu)  

[D3MON]

Because modern games benefit of Hyper Threading & i7s give more performance. That's why.

http://www.techspot.com/review/734-battlefield-4-benchmarks/page6.html

really? i agree modern games can use multiple threads (i know this ) but unless the cpu is bottlenecking i wouldnt say you gain more performance...

[D3MON]

Silicon will take us down to 5nm according to industry experts. Intel is optimistic in thinking it will handle 3nm. IBM will have a graphene chip out before 2018 mark my words.

I hope so, i'd be optimistic for 5nm but I'd also put money on intel pushing it to 3.5nm because they'll throw money at it to get that extra 40%

(going from 180nm-130nm-90nm-65 etc etc we've seen shrinks by about 40% each time on average unless im mistaken?)

[TheRagingGamer]

Because my first computer had an Intel CPU so I never saw the point of switching.. You can ask me anything about Intel and I can tell you, but I lnow absolutely nothing about AMD, not even the names of the CPU's..

Same goes for graphics cards, I trust Nvidia and I see no point of getting an AMD.

 I switched from ATI to nvidia and from nvidia to AMD. And i also switched from intel to AMD. You cant be so closed minded 

[DigitalHermit]

where do you live, if you don't have lots of money buy used (just dont buy gpu)  

 

I would if I could but the local used parts market is swindling people big time... Around 250USD for a refurbished Core2Quad based system (peripehrals included), 100USD for a refurbished P4 system (peripherals included)... The total market value of the peripeherals are around 25-30USD combined, and it even comes with a 'legit' copy of Windows...

 

Also, people here are notorious for not throwing out anything that is still usable... Even when they throw it out, it ends up being reused until it meets its end as scrap metal/plastic/silicon...

 

I'm in the Philippines...

[GamerDude]

Because my first computer had an Intel CPU so I never saw the point of switching.. You can ask me anything about Intel and I can tell you, but I lnow absolutely nothing about AMD, not even the names of the CPU's..

Same goes for graphics cards, I trust Nvidia and I see no point of getting an AMD.

Whoa...such a closed minded view......

[TheRagingGamer]

I would if I could but the local used parts market is swindling people big time... Around 250USD for a refurbished Core2Quad based system (peripehrals included), 100USD for a refurbished P4 system (peripherals included)... The total market value of the peripeherals are around 25-30USD combined, and it even comes with a 'legit' copy of Windows...

 

Also, people here are notorious for not throwing out anything that is still usable... Even when they throw it out, it ends up being reused until it meets its end as scrap metal/plastic/silicon...

 

I'm in the Philippines...

hmm i had that problem because i lived in croatia and i just went to austria bought parts got tax refound and walked away. I usually get my parts from somewhere else 

[DigitalHermit]

hmm i had that problem because i lived in croatia and i just went to austria bought parts got tax refound and walked away. I usually get my parts from somewhere else 

I'd leave the country when given the chance... Unless you have a stable, good-paying job, it'll be difficult to survive...

[FizzyFantom]

Many people have spread the misconceptions that AMD "are just crap" and "run really hot" (as evidenced in this thread). Anyone who has any real world experience with AMD CPUs will know that these are both lies and AMD is actually as good an option as Intel (most times). Please note I said "as good as" not better. Neither is "better" than the other overall (they possibly are for very specific uses) so saying that they all "just run hot" (which I see far too much) is simply not true.

People "hate" AMD for the same reason they "hate" Nvidia, or Asus, or Gigabyte etc. Fanboyism. Anyone who claims "AMD is just crap" or "AMDs just run hot" are talking rubbish. Please stop...

[wrath]

why do a lot of people say that amd chips run hot?

yes there are a couple that run hot but not all of them just because one runs hot doesnt mean they all do and btw i have had a few amd chips and they didnt run hot.

I have a quad now and overclocked with stock cooler it rarely goes higher than 55 grades celsius(only when i forget to clean it) soo not all of them