An angry rant about Swiftech H220.

[Yamuda]

Hello all, this is Gabriel Rouchon (aka Gabe), CEO and Swiftech's founder. Here are my comments/responses to this rant.

To start off he says this product will bridge the gap between all in one systems and full on loops. Ha! I would say that rather a joke. If you really want to have a water cooling system then please' date=' please, do yourself the decency of buying your own custom loop. [/quote']

This is an arguable opinion:

First off, the pleasure of building your own system remains. It is only made simpler here. Secondly, building a custom loop doesn’t guarantee that you will have a better performing system. It only guarantees that 1/ you’ll have fun doing research for weeks or months looking for individual components and 2/ you’ll be able to pick the components that please you most cosmetically. Do not tell us that building a custom loop will automatically result in a higher performing system.. there are just too many options out there. It may or may not, and that’s all you can say.

But more about that end. “This system can be used by novices and custom DIY users†If I ever see a DIY user buying an all-in-one cooler I will slit my wrists. Now seriously.

Slit your wrists? Please be my guest, really..

But seriously, let’s move on..

That’s like saying a pre-built PC can be used by custom PC builders. Eh' date=' no thanks. Then he goes ahead and says there’s a 3 year warranty. Well what he is saying is there is a 3 years warranty on your pump. Because that is really the only thing that can fail in a loop. [/quote']

False/incomplete: you forget the fans

Once you take it apart to add your own things I doubt you will ever get your warranty if anything but the pump fails.

Unfounded conjecture – so let me clarify your doubts:

The only thing we cannot guarantee if user expands the loop is leaks, because we can’t obviously control how the user will implement setup (just like any custom loop).. However, we have done everything in our power to make sure that connections (clamps) are as “idiot proof†as possible. Videos and how-to’s will be available upon product release showing exactly the proper installation/upgrades procedures.

Anything you put together wrong is YOUR FAULT.

Correct: if you put it together wrong, isn’t it your fault by definition? However, our responsibility and commitment is to ensure that you don’t by providing clear and complete installation guide and maintenance procedures as mentioned above.

“It comes with fans pre-attached†; well those 8 screws really made me happy.

Making light of this additional convenience to users is interesting. We’ll see later below that you turn this opinion around 180 Degree to suit your purpose.

Remember this also makes it cheaper to ship for them so it’s a benefit for THEM.

False: space in packaging is identical; but cost of installation is higher (human resource), so it does cost us a little more to install them.

“Plug and play?†; yeah taking apart a CPU socket does really take some considerable time. I think this guy forgot what plug and play means.

False: we’ve setup the CPU upgrade method to simplest possible. It take no more than 3 minutes to change from one socket to another.

“Introduced side channels in a rad†; You mean it cost you less to manufacture because there is less metal.

False: no cost saving here – and it’s not “introduced side channelsâ€, it’s “enlarged the spacing of side channels†so that there is no chance that novice user could puncture them by using non standard screws. We’ve seen people bolting screws thru the entire radiator…

Not your excuse that you won’t poke holes in it with screws. If you didn’t want that then you could have just added a rubber plate where the screw comes through?

False: Thanks for the technical advice, but that wouldn’t eliminate the above scenario.

“Swivel fittings†; Single rotary from what I can see' date=' not dual, hmm. [/quote']

Hmm what? Swivel rotates 360 degrees. No need for dual joints here.

Pump was good' date=' fair enough, you made it cheaper for yourself by cutting out the manufactures. More profit for you. Great! Also small savings to the end user. [/quote']

False: our profit margins for this kind of volume products are actually much tighter because of competitive pressures. So the savings to users are huge. For reference H20-220 Elite kit sells for $239 whereas the H220 sells for $139.00 – See the videos explaining how we pulled it off, but I can summarize it again: manufacturing the pump ourselves, and large economies of scale by launching production of components by the thousands instead of by the hundreds.

Yup great job with the pump' date=' I won’t deny that. However, the comparison to the competition is wrong. Those pumps were made for doing a closed loop. [/quote']

False: There is nothing wrong about comparing when we clearly explain that our pump was specifically designed for a different –and bigger purpose: driving multiple cooling devices as needed.

Compare yourself to an 18W Laing DDC-1Plus pump. Yeah' date=' didn’t think so. Now your 5W seems kind of childish to boast about. [/quote']

Incorrect: the pump is rated at 6Watts – and we are absolutely not ashamed to comparing against the Laing (our MCP35X) either. In fact, prior to releasing the kit, at equal 4500 RPM this pump was able to beat the 35X pressure wise by 0.5 mH20 (4.7 for ours vs 4.2 for the 35X). We intentionally not implemented high speed in the kit in order to blend operating noise with fans.

Hmm' date=' adding another radiator? I assume you will have to drain the system of course first, not JUST undo the fitting and add a radiator. I wonder how easy those all in one systems are to drain and clean out. Hmmmmm… [/quote']

False: No more difficult that any DIY system: open fill-port and drain the rad in a bucket. Port is big enough that you don’t have to disconnect tubes, and if you are setting up additional components in the loop, since you are doing custom, there is nothing preventing you from adding a drain line in the process, isn't that true?

Yeah now to the worst thing in the whole cooler. The fill port. If you look at its position you will notice it is facing up now. Consider this. You have the cooler mounted in your case. Fans facing down because that is their stock position. Now look where your fill port is. WELL' date=' unless I’m very mistaken its pointing directly down. [/quote']

You are indeed very mistaken: The fans are meant to be attached to the top of the case, and the fill-port will be facing up. Not that it would change anything anyhow because the fill-port is sealed with an o-ring so it wouldn’t leak even if it was upside down.

Well oh oh. This won’t end well. Now you see what I mean. Now lets imagine for arguments sake that the radiator is pointing the other way. Well you seem to have a huge chunk of metal called your case in the way of your fill port now. Gold star on your design swiftech! Well from my previous point bleeding the air bubbles out of the system will be joy won’t it!

Self-contradicting: It is interesting that you dismissed installing 8 screws to attach the radiator as trivial above (“well those 8 screws really made me happyâ€), and you are now criticizing to having to unscrew them to access the fill-port..what was so easy before is now becoming so difficult.. looks like a contradiction to me, no? anyways, if you use this for CPU cooling only, there is no maintenance refill for 3 years, and if you do go custom, then you are by definition an enthusiast, and a little case modding shouldn’t scare you: simple tools (a dremel or a 1†hole saw) will allow you to cut a small hole directly above the fill-port for convenient repeated access (based on the premise that enthusiasts are frequently revising their configuration to add stuff).

Firstly all the other manufactures are going “F**k you Swiftech for making our product look worse than yours

Unfounded conjecture (?):

How do you know that for a fact? Any statements so far? Any examples you care to give? Or you are just imagining? Maybe you heard it directly from the horse’s mouth? If so, how? Let me ask you straight: are you representing one of these manufacturers? or are you associated with one of them? It is so easy to publish a rant like this under the protection of anonymity.. If you do represent one of our competitors, then have the courage to say it.

I have never seen more offensive advertising in my life. It’s like Coca Cola comparing itself to Pepsi in an advert. Disgraceful.

Disgraceful heh?

How about this for disgraceful: I remember (for being there) about 3 or 4 CES ago that Cool-It (who manufactures the corsair Kit) demoed their system comparing it to a first release Apogee water-block that was at least 3 generations behind. Talk about unequal comparison.. They just wanted to prove that their AIO was better than custom kits.. so they had to pick the most antiquated of our waterblocks. In contrast, we picked the latest models from the competition available at retail. Anyways, about comparative advertising in general, you must be equally offended by auto makers comparing each other’s models on a daily basis on TV right ? Let me add in contrast to your statement that every single member of the media that came to our booth clearly stated that it was the best demo they had seen BECAUSE it placed our kit in context with some of the competition. We used the latest kits available and we never said anything derogatory. We just SHOWED the temps, using equally equipped PC’s with equal settings, and had the public LISTEN to each one. If any of the members of the media had any doubts or concerns, don’t you think they would have voiced them right there and then?

Now the overclock is a joke. They did not tweek the voltage.

From whose point of view? This was NOT an overclocking contest. It was meant to show the OC at the click of a button like most novice users will do. It also guaranteed that the lowest possible voltage would be used to reduce the heat output on each CPU so as to minimize the thermal differences due to CPU quality. This was certainly not meant -nor presented as a lab experiment, it was presented to give users an idea of the respective ranking of the cooling systems. See more comments about this below.

Also' date=' saying they are on equal ground is an outright lie. [/quote']

I strongly object to your comment here: if you are accusing us of lying this is libel on your part, and I invite you to be very careful. At no point in any of the presentations did I represent that the CPU’s generated the same amount of heat. What I said was that the systems were identical, with identical setup and overclock, and that they were all at full load (100% CPU load). What I also said in the Techoftommorow presentation was, I quote: “we want to be able to read the temperatures and be able to see approximately what temperature differences are†.

You have all heard about the silicon lottery. Some chips get hotter overclocked' date=' some don’t. [/quote']

I presume you mean some chips get hotter than others.. In that sense, then the comment is technically correct, but see my own comments above – For the record, we also tested the various competitors using same CPU’s, and the ranking remained completely consistent with the CES presentation.

You put the other fans at MINIMUM and you put your fans at half speed. Well that’s a fair test.

False: we put all the fans at 1400 RPM, which also happens to be the minimum fan speed of both Corsair and Thermaltake.

Also did you happen to add more rads to those GTX680s well yeah of course you did.

False. The system using the GTX680’s only used the H220 radiator.

.. I have perhaps the worst bone to pick with Swiftech.. the loudness should have been measured by a decibel meter.

Not feasible: This was a trade show.. not a lab experiment. I can’t help it if people from the media didn’t have a db meter. Plus there was so much ambient noise that it would have been impossible to measure anything scientifically. See for example the difference in ambient noise between Linus video (using a directional mike) and Techoftomorrow video which also picked up all the room noises making it difficult to hear the systems themselves..

http://i.imgur.com/FSLOH.jpg[/img] Why the hell is there someone’s hand there? And' date=' why did the fans suddenly ramp up all of a sudden. [/quote']

What's with the suspicion seing someone hand?

We started the demo with system running at 1400 rpm, then increased the fan speed using the manufacturer software to full speed. Someone had to do it while I was talking, right? That was the very purpose of the demo: listening to full speed.

If you really want to go into custom watercooling buy a custom kit to start out with.

Why? because you say so? let the readers decide what’s best for them!

I feel so angry at swiftech for these vids and just wanted to set a few things straight for all the people saying how great it is.

You didn’t set anything straight: You voiced your personal opinions, more often than not using false or incorrect assumptions, and failed to present anything factually correct. Just a bunch of insinuations and conjectures.

I don't understand why temps were taken at lowered speeds and noise ratings were taken at highest speeds. I would like to personally see the temps when fans were at highest speeds. To see how comparable they really are.

To take temps at max speed would require that the systems ramp up in temp for 20 to 30 minutes. There was no time for that. And comparing temps at higher speeds to see how comparable they are? Comparing temps without comparing noise levels is utter nonsense. Running the Corsair unit at 2700 rpms is simply unbearable (as a matter of personal opinion).

I'm saying this will be a horrible failure when people want to add a gpu or something to their loop.

And how can you say that? We DEMONSTRATED that it works with 2 GTX680’s and with 2 Radeon’s 7900..

http://thingist.com/user_uploads/321362382158439961.gif

[Ghost]

.

Holy.

Well I actually can't argue with that.

Well I guess you have actually made me believe in your product.

Thank you. That's exactly what I wanted to know.

If the fill port is intended to be placed facing upwards with a hole cut out to fill it from above then that would work.

Well I take back all my arguments.

I will also remove my whole rant and direct people to your post.

I do not represent any company. I am simply a computer enthusiast.

Edit: I would argue some of your responses but they are not directly related to the product so I will give it a pass.

[ScuderiaNerd]

Now that's what i call an happy ending... Lol

[germand]

The only thing I was puzzling about was the demonstration of the Rig with dual 7970 at the end. It seemed like the hole system was running under full load, as one would expect for a "this is as extreme as it gets" temperature test. But one can clearly see that only the heaven benchmark is running and the CPU is only stressed partially due to the benchmark. I guess a lot of viewers might have thought that also a prime95 torture test would have been at work. From that point of view the temps would have seem very impressive.

One the other hand, in the techtomorrow video Gabriel explicitly says that prime95 is NOT at work. My guess is Gabriel truly (!!) forgot to mention it...

[Kev]

Hello all, this is Gabriel Rouchon (aka Gabe), CEO and Swiftech's founder. Here are my comments/responses to this rant.

To start off he says this product will bridge the gap between all in one systems and full on loops. Ha! I would say that rather a joke. If you really want to have a water cooling system then please' date=' please, do yourself the decency of buying your own custom loop. [/quote']

This is an arguable opinion:

First off, the pleasure of building your own system remains. It is only made simpler here. Secondly, building a custom loop doesn’t guarantee that you will have a better performing system. It only guarantees that 1/ you’ll have fun doing research for weeks or months looking for individual components and 2/ you’ll be able to pick the components that please you most cosmetically. Do not tell us that building a custom loop will automatically result in a higher performing system.. there are just too many options out there. It may or may not, and that’s all you can say.

But more about that end. “This system can be used by novices and custom DIY users†If I ever see a DIY user buying an all-in-one cooler I will slit my wrists. Now seriously.

Slit your wrists? Please be my guest, really..

But seriously, let’s move on..

That’s like saying a pre-built PC can be used by custom PC builders. Eh' date=' no thanks. Then he goes ahead and says there’s a 3 year warranty. Well what he is saying is there is a 3 years warranty on your pump. Because that is really the only thing that can fail in a loop. [/quote']

False/incomplete: you forget the fans

Once you take it apart to add your own things I doubt you will ever get your warranty if anything but the pump fails.

Unfounded conjecture – so let me clarify your doubts:

The only thing we cannot guarantee if user expands the loop is leaks, because we can’t obviously control how the user will implement setup (just like any custom loop).. However, we have done everything in our power to make sure that connections (clamps) are as “idiot proof†as possible. Videos and how-to’s will be available upon product release showing exactly the proper installation/upgrades procedures.

Anything you put together wrong is YOUR FAULT.

Correct: if you put it together wrong, isn’t it your fault by definition? However, our responsibility and commitment is to ensure that you don’t by providing clear and complete installation guide and maintenance procedures as mentioned above.

“It comes with fans pre-attached†; well those 8 screws really made me happy.

Making light of this additional convenience to users is interesting. We’ll see later below that you turn this opinion around 180 Degree to suit your purpose.

Remember this also makes it cheaper to ship for them so it’s a benefit for THEM.

False: space in packaging is identical; but cost of installation is higher (human resource), so it does cost us a little more to install them.

“Plug and play?†; yeah taking apart a CPU socket does really take some considerable time. I think this guy forgot what plug and play means.

False: we’ve setup the CPU upgrade method to simplest possible. It take no more than 3 minutes to change from one socket to another.

“Introduced side channels in a rad†; You mean it cost you less to manufacture because there is less metal.

False: no cost saving here – and it’s not “introduced side channelsâ€, it’s “enlarged the spacing of side channels†so that there is no chance that novice user could puncture them by using non standard screws. We’ve seen people bolting screws thru the entire radiator…

Not your excuse that you won’t poke holes in it with screws. If you didn’t want that then you could have just added a rubber plate where the screw comes through?

False: Thanks for the technical advice, but that wouldn’t eliminate the above scenario.

“Swivel fittings†; Single rotary from what I can see' date=' not dual, hmm. [/quote']

Hmm what? Swivel rotates 360 degrees. No need for dual joints here.

Pump was good' date=' fair enough, you made it cheaper for yourself by cutting out the manufactures. More profit for you. Great! Also small savings to the end user. [/quote']

False: our profit margins for this kind of volume products are actually much tighter because of competitive pressures. So the savings to users are huge. For reference H20-220 Elite kit sells for $239 whereas the H220 sells for $139.00 – See the videos explaining how we pulled it off, but I can summarize it again: manufacturing the pump ourselves, and large economies of scale by launching production of components by the thousands instead of by the hundreds.

Yup great job with the pump' date=' I won’t deny that. However, the comparison to the competition is wrong. Those pumps were made for doing a closed loop. [/quote']

False: There is nothing wrong about comparing when we clearly explain that our pump was specifically designed for a different –and bigger purpose: driving multiple cooling devices as needed.

Compare yourself to an 18W Laing DDC-1Plus pump. Yeah' date=' didn’t think so. Now your 5W seems kind of childish to boast about. [/quote']

Incorrect: the pump is rated at 6Watts – and we are absolutely not ashamed to comparing against the Laing (our MCP35X) either. In fact, prior to releasing the kit, at equal 4500 RPM this pump was able to beat the 35X pressure wise by 0.5 mH20 (4.7 for ours vs 4.2 for the 35X). We intentionally not implemented high speed in the kit in order to blend operating noise with fans.

Hmm' date=' adding another radiator? I assume you will have to drain the system of course first, not JUST undo the fitting and add a radiator. I wonder how easy those all in one systems are to drain and clean out. Hmmmmm… [/quote']

False: No more difficult that any DIY system: open fill-port and drain the rad in a bucket. Port is big enough that you don’t have to disconnect tubes, and if you are setting up additional components in the loop, since you are doing custom, there is nothing preventing you from adding a drain line in the process, isn't that true?

Yeah now to the worst thing in the whole cooler. The fill port. If you look at its position you will notice it is facing up now. Consider this. You have the cooler mounted in your case. Fans facing down because that is their stock position. Now look where your fill port is. WELL' date=' unless I’m very mistaken its pointing directly down. [/quote']

You are indeed very mistaken: The fans are meant to be attached to the top of the case, and the fill-port will be facing up. Not that it would change anything anyhow because the fill-port is sealed with an o-ring so it wouldn’t leak even if it was upside down.

Well oh oh. This won’t end well. Now you see what I mean. Now lets imagine for arguments sake that the radiator is pointing the other way. Well you seem to have a huge chunk of metal called your case in the way of your fill port now. Gold star on your design swiftech! Well from my previous point bleeding the air bubbles out of the system will be joy won’t it!

Self-contradicting: It is interesting that you dismissed installing 8 screws to attach the radiator as trivial above (“well those 8 screws really made me happyâ€), and you are now criticizing to having to unscrew them to access the fill-port..what was so easy before is now becoming so difficult.. looks like a contradiction to me, no? anyways, if you use this for CPU cooling only, there is no maintenance refill for 3 years, and if you do go custom, then you are by definition an enthusiast, and a little case modding shouldn’t scare you: simple tools (a dremel or a 1†hole saw) will allow you to cut a small hole directly above the fill-port for convenient repeated access (based on the premise that enthusiasts are frequently revising their configuration to add stuff).

Firstly all the other manufactures are going “F**k you Swiftech for making our product look worse than yours

Unfounded conjecture (?):

How do you know that for a fact? Any statements so far? Any examples you care to give? Or you are just imagining? Maybe you heard it directly from the horse’s mouth? If so, how? Let me ask you straight: are you representing one of these manufacturers? or are you associated with one of them? It is so easy to publish a rant like this under the protection of anonymity.. If you do represent one of our competitors, then have the courage to say it.

I have never seen more offensive advertising in my life. It’s like Coca Cola comparing itself to Pepsi in an advert. Disgraceful.

Disgraceful heh?

How about this for disgraceful: I remember (for being there) about 3 or 4 CES ago that Cool-It (who manufactures the corsair Kit) demoed their system comparing it to a first release Apogee water-block that was at least 3 generations behind. Talk about unequal comparison.. They just wanted to prove that their AIO was better than custom kits.. so they had to pick the most antiquated of our waterblocks. In contrast, we picked the latest models from the competition available at retail. Anyways, about comparative advertising in general, you must be equally offended by auto makers comparing each other’s models on a daily basis on TV right ? Let me add in contrast to your statement that every single member of the media that came to our booth clearly stated that it was the best demo they had seen BECAUSE it placed our kit in context with some of the competition. We used the latest kits available and we never said anything derogatory. We just SHOWED the temps, using equally equipped PC’s with equal settings, and had the public LISTEN to each one. If any of the members of the media had any doubts or concerns, don’t you think they would have voiced them right there and then?

Now the overclock is a joke. They did not tweek the voltage.

From whose point of view? This was NOT an overclocking contest. It was meant to show the OC at the click of a button like most novice users will do. It also guaranteed that the lowest possible voltage would be used to reduce the heat output on each CPU so as to minimize the thermal differences due to CPU quality. This was certainly not meant -nor presented as a lab experiment, it was presented to give users an idea of the respective ranking of the cooling systems. See more comments about this below.

Also' date=' saying they are on equal ground is an outright lie. [/quote']

I strongly object to your comment here: if you are accusing us of lying this is libel on your part, and I invite you to be very careful. At no point in any of the presentations did I represent that the CPU’s generated the same amount of heat. What I said was that the systems were identical, with identical setup and overclock, and that they were all at full load (100% CPU load). What I also said in the Techoftommorow presentation was, I quote: “we want to be able to read the temperatures and be able to see approximately what temperature differences are†.

You have all heard about the silicon lottery. Some chips get hotter overclocked' date=' some don’t. [/quote']

I presume you mean some chips get hotter than others.. In that sense, then the comment is technically correct, but see my own comments above – For the record, we also tested the various competitors using same CPU’s, and the ranking remained completely consistent with the CES presentation.

You put the other fans at MINIMUM and you put your fans at half speed. Well that’s a fair test.

False: we put all the fans at 1400 RPM, which also happens to be the minimum fan speed of both Corsair and Thermaltake.

Also did you happen to add more rads to those GTX680s well yeah of course you did.

False. The system using the GTX680’s only used the H220 radiator.

.. I have perhaps the worst bone to pick with Swiftech.. the loudness should have been measured by a decibel meter.

Not feasible: This was a trade show.. not a lab experiment. I can’t help it if people from the media didn’t have a db meter. Plus there was so much ambient noise that it would have been impossible to measure anything scientifically. See for example the difference in ambient noise between Linus video (using a directional mike) and Techoftomorrow video which also picked up all the room noises making it difficult to hear the systems themselves..

http://i.imgur.com/FSLOH.jpg[/img] Why the hell is there someone’s hand there? And' date=' why did the fans suddenly ramp up all of a sudden. [/quote']

What's with the suspicion seing someone hand?

We started the demo with system running at 1400 rpm, then increased the fan speed using the manufacturer software to full speed. Someone had to do it while I was talking, right? That was the very purpose of the demo: listening to full speed.

If you really want to go into custom watercooling buy a custom kit to start out with.

Why? because you say so? let the readers decide what’s best for them!

I feel so angry at swiftech for these vids and just wanted to set a few things straight for all the people saying how great it is.

You didn’t set anything straight: You voiced your personal opinions, more often than not using false or incorrect assumptions, and failed to present anything factually correct. Just a bunch of insinuations and conjectures.

I don't understand why temps were taken at lowered speeds and noise ratings were taken at highest speeds. I would like to personally see the temps when fans were at highest speeds. To see how comparable they really are.

To take temps at max speed would require that the systems ramp up in temp for 20 to 30 minutes. There was no time for that. And comparing temps at higher speeds to see how comparable they are? Comparing temps without comparing noise levels is utter nonsense. Running the Corsair unit at 2700 rpms is simply unbearable (as a matter of personal opinion).

I'm saying this will be a horrible failure when people want to add a gpu or something to their loop.

And how can you say that? We DEMONSTRATED that it works with 2 GTX680’s and with 2 Radeon’s 7900..

That's how you run a company.

[Ghost]

Hello all, this is Gabriel Rouchon (aka Gabe), CEO and Swiftech's founder. Here are my comments/responses to this rant.

To start off he says this product will bridge the gap between all in one systems and full on loops. Ha! I would say that rather a joke. If you really want to have a water cooling system then please' date=' please, do yourself the decency of buying your own custom loop. [/quote']

This is an arguable opinion:

First off, the pleasure of building your own system remains. It is only made simpler here. Secondly, building a custom loop doesn’t guarantee that you will have a better performing system. It only guarantees that 1/ you’ll have fun doing research for weeks or months looking for individual components and 2/ you’ll be able to pick the components that please you most cosmetically. Do not tell us that building a custom loop will automatically result in a higher performing system.. there are just too many options out there. It may or may not, and that’s all you can say.

But more about that end. “This system can be used by novices and custom DIY users†If I ever see a DIY user buying an all-in-one cooler I will slit my wrists. Now seriously.

Slit your wrists? Please be my guest, really..

But seriously, let’s move on..

That’s like saying a pre-built PC can be used by custom PC builders. Eh' date=' no thanks. Then he goes ahead and says there’s a 3 year warranty. Well what he is saying is there is a 3 years warranty on your pump. Because that is really the only thing that can fail in a loop. [/quote']

False/incomplete: you forget the fans

Once you take it apart to add your own things I doubt you will ever get your warranty if anything but the pump fails.

Unfounded conjecture – so let me clarify your doubts:

The only thing we cannot guarantee if user expands the loop is leaks, because we can’t obviously control how the user will implement setup (just like any custom loop).. However, we have done everything in our power to make sure that connections (clamps) are as “idiot proof†as possible. Videos and how-to’s will be available upon product release showing exactly the proper installation/upgrades procedures.

Anything you put together wrong is YOUR FAULT.

Correct: if you put it together wrong, isn’t it your fault by definition? However, our responsibility and commitment is to ensure that you don’t by providing clear and complete installation guide and maintenance procedures as mentioned above.

“It comes with fans pre-attached†; well those 8 screws really made me happy.

Making light of this additional convenience to users is interesting. We’ll see later below that you turn this opinion around 180 Degree to suit your purpose.

Remember this also makes it cheaper to ship for them so it’s a benefit for THEM.

False: space in packaging is identical; but cost of installation is higher (human resource), so it does cost us a little more to install them.

“Plug and play?†; yeah taking apart a CPU socket does really take some considerable time. I think this guy forgot what plug and play means.

False: we’ve setup the CPU upgrade method to simplest possible. It take no more than 3 minutes to change from one socket to another.

“Introduced side channels in a rad†; You mean it cost you less to manufacture because there is less metal.

False: no cost saving here – and it’s not “introduced side channelsâ€, it’s “enlarged the spacing of side channels†so that there is no chance that novice user could puncture them by using non standard screws. We’ve seen people bolting screws thru the entire radiator…

Not your excuse that you won’t poke holes in it with screws. If you didn’t want that then you could have just added a rubber plate where the screw comes through?

False: Thanks for the technical advice, but that wouldn’t eliminate the above scenario.

“Swivel fittings†; Single rotary from what I can see' date=' not dual, hmm. [/quote']

Hmm what? Swivel rotates 360 degrees. No need for dual joints here.

Pump was good' date=' fair enough, you made it cheaper for yourself by cutting out the manufactures. More profit for you. Great! Also small savings to the end user. [/quote']

False: our profit margins for this kind of volume products are actually much tighter because of competitive pressures. So the savings to users are huge. For reference H20-220 Elite kit sells for $239 whereas the H220 sells for $139.00 – See the videos explaining how we pulled it off, but I can summarize it again: manufacturing the pump ourselves, and large economies of scale by launching production of components by the thousands instead of by the hundreds.

Yup great job with the pump' date=' I won’t deny that. However, the comparison to the competition is wrong. Those pumps were made for doing a closed loop. [/quote']

False: There is nothing wrong about comparing when we clearly explain that our pump was specifically designed for a different –and bigger purpose: driving multiple cooling devices as needed.

Compare yourself to an 18W Laing DDC-1Plus pump. Yeah' date=' didn’t think so. Now your 5W seems kind of childish to boast about. [/quote']

Incorrect: the pump is rated at 6Watts – and we are absolutely not ashamed to comparing against the Laing (our MCP35X) either. In fact, prior to releasing the kit, at equal 4500 RPM this pump was able to beat the 35X pressure wise by 0.5 mH20 (4.7 for ours vs 4.2 for the 35X). We intentionally not implemented high speed in the kit in order to blend operating noise with fans.

Hmm' date=' adding another radiator? I assume you will have to drain the system of course first, not JUST undo the fitting and add a radiator. I wonder how easy those all in one systems are to drain and clean out. Hmmmmm… [/quote']

False: No more difficult that any DIY system: open fill-port and drain the rad in a bucket. Port is big enough that you don’t have to disconnect tubes, and if you are setting up additional components in the loop, since you are doing custom, there is nothing preventing you from adding a drain line in the process, isn't that true?

Yeah now to the worst thing in the whole cooler. The fill port. If you look at its position you will notice it is facing up now. Consider this. You have the cooler mounted in your case. Fans facing down because that is their stock position. Now look where your fill port is. WELL' date=' unless I’m very mistaken its pointing directly down. [/quote']

You are indeed very mistaken: The fans are meant to be attached to the top of the case, and the fill-port will be facing up. Not that it would change anything anyhow because the fill-port is sealed with an o-ring so it wouldn’t leak even if it was upside down.

Well oh oh. This won’t end well. Now you see what I mean. Now lets imagine for arguments sake that the radiator is pointing the other way. Well you seem to have a huge chunk of metal called your case in the way of your fill port now. Gold star on your design swiftech! Well from my previous point bleeding the air bubbles out of the system will be joy won’t it!

Self-contradicting: It is interesting that you dismissed installing 8 screws to attach the radiator as trivial above (“well those 8 screws really made me happyâ€), and you are now criticizing to having to unscrew them to access the fill-port..what was so easy before is now becoming so difficult.. looks like a contradiction to me, no? anyways, if you use this for CPU cooling only, there is no maintenance refill for 3 years, and if you do go custom, then you are by definition an enthusiast, and a little case modding shouldn’t scare you: simple tools (a dremel or a 1†hole saw) will allow you to cut a small hole directly above the fill-port for convenient repeated access (based on the premise that enthusiasts are frequently revising their configuration to add stuff).

Firstly all the other manufactures are going “F**k you Swiftech for making our product look worse than yours

Unfounded conjecture (?):

How do you know that for a fact? Any statements so far? Any examples you care to give? Or you are just imagining? Maybe you heard it directly from the horse’s mouth? If so, how? Let me ask you straight: are you representing one of these manufacturers? or are you associated with one of them? It is so easy to publish a rant like this under the protection of anonymity.. If you do represent one of our competitors, then have the courage to say it.

I have never seen more offensive advertising in my life. It’s like Coca Cola comparing itself to Pepsi in an advert. Disgraceful.

Disgraceful heh?

How about this for disgraceful: I remember (for being there) about 3 or 4 CES ago that Cool-It (who manufactures the corsair Kit) demoed their system comparing it to a first release Apogee water-block that was at least 3 generations behind. Talk about unequal comparison.. They just wanted to prove that their AIO was better than custom kits.. so they had to pick the most antiquated of our waterblocks. In contrast, we picked the latest models from the competition available at retail. Anyways, about comparative advertising in general, you must be equally offended by auto makers comparing each other’s models on a daily basis on TV right ? Let me add in contrast to your statement that every single member of the media that came to our booth clearly stated that it was the best demo they had seen BECAUSE it placed our kit in context with some of the competition. We used the latest kits available and we never said anything derogatory. We just SHOWED the temps, using equally equipped PC’s with equal settings, and had the public LISTEN to each one. If any of the members of the media had any doubts or concerns, don’t you think they would have voiced them right there and then?

Now the overclock is a joke. They did not tweek the voltage.

From whose point of view? This was NOT an overclocking contest. It was meant to show the OC at the click of a button like most novice users will do. It also guaranteed that the lowest possible voltage would be used to reduce the heat output on each CPU so as to minimize the thermal differences due to CPU quality. This was certainly not meant -nor presented as a lab experiment, it was presented to give users an idea of the respective ranking of the cooling systems. See more comments about this below.

Also' date=' saying they are on equal ground is an outright lie. [/quote']

I strongly object to your comment here: if you are accusing us of lying this is libel on your part, and I invite you to be very careful. At no point in any of the presentations did I represent that the CPU’s generated the same amount of heat. What I said was that the systems were identical, with identical setup and overclock, and that they were all at full load (100% CPU load). What I also said in the Techoftommorow presentation was, I quote: “we want to be able to read the temperatures and be able to see approximately what temperature differences are†.

You have all heard about the silicon lottery. Some chips get hotter overclocked' date=' some don’t. [/quote']

I presume you mean some chips get hotter than others.. In that sense, then the comment is technically correct, but see my own comments above – For the record, we also tested the various competitors using same CPU’s, and the ranking remained completely consistent with the CES presentation.

You put the other fans at MINIMUM and you put your fans at half speed. Well that’s a fair test.

False: we put all the fans at 1400 RPM, which also happens to be the minimum fan speed of both Corsair and Thermaltake.

Also did you happen to add more rads to those GTX680s well yeah of course you did.

False. The system using the GTX680’s only used the H220 radiator.

.. I have perhaps the worst bone to pick with Swiftech.. the loudness should have been measured by a decibel meter.

Not feasible: This was a trade show.. not a lab experiment. I can’t help it if people from the media didn’t have a db meter. Plus there was so much ambient noise that it would have been impossible to measure anything scientifically. See for example the difference in ambient noise between Linus video (using a directional mike) and Techoftomorrow video which also picked up all the room noises making it difficult to hear the systems themselves..

http://i.imgur.com/FSLOH.jpg[/img] Why the hell is there someone’s hand there? And' date=' why did the fans suddenly ramp up all of a sudden. [/quote']

What's with the suspicion seing someone hand?

We started the demo with system running at 1400 rpm, then increased the fan speed using the manufacturer software to full speed. Someone had to do it while I was talking, right? That was the very purpose of the demo: listening to full speed.

If you really want to go into custom watercooling buy a custom kit to start out with.

Why? because you say so? let the readers decide what’s best for them!

I feel so angry at swiftech for these vids and just wanted to set a few things straight for all the people saying how great it is.

You didn’t set anything straight: You voiced your personal opinions, more often than not using false or incorrect assumptions, and failed to present anything factually correct. Just a bunch of insinuations and conjectures.

I don't understand why temps were taken at lowered speeds and noise ratings were taken at highest speeds. I would like to personally see the temps when fans were at highest speeds. To see how comparable they really are.

To take temps at max speed would require that the systems ramp up in temp for 20 to 30 minutes. There was no time for that. And comparing temps at higher speeds to see how comparable they are? Comparing temps without comparing noise levels is utter nonsense. Running the Corsair unit at 2700 rpms is simply unbearable (as a matter of personal opinion).

I'm saying this will be a horrible failure when people want to add a gpu or something to their loop.

And how can you say that? We DEMONSTRATED that it works with 2 GTX680’s and with 2 Radeon’s 7900..

I actually really respect the fact that he took the time to respond to the thread, It must have taken a considerable time to make that post. Not many CEOs would do that.

[gliliumho]

Hello all, this is Gabriel Rouchon (aka Gabe), CEO and Swiftech's founder. Here are my comments/responses to this rant.

To start off he says this product will bridge the gap between all in one systems and full on loops. Ha! I would say that rather a joke. If you really want to have a water cooling system then please' date=' please, do yourself the decency of buying your own custom loop. [/quote']

This is an arguable opinion:

First off, the pleasure of building your own system remains. It is only made simpler here. Secondly, building a custom loop doesn’t guarantee that you will have a better performing system. It only guarantees that 1/ you’ll have fun doing research for weeks or months looking for individual components and 2/ you’ll be able to pick the components that please you most cosmetically. Do not tell us that building a custom loop will automatically result in a higher performing system.. there are just too many options out there. It may or may not, and that’s all you can say.

But more about that end. “This system can be used by novices and custom DIY users†If I ever see a DIY user buying an all-in-one cooler I will slit my wrists. Now seriously.

Slit your wrists? Please be my guest, really..

But seriously, let’s move on..

That’s like saying a pre-built PC can be used by custom PC builders. Eh' date=' no thanks. Then he goes ahead and says there’s a 3 year warranty. Well what he is saying is there is a 3 years warranty on your pump. Because that is really the only thing that can fail in a loop. [/quote']

False/incomplete: you forget the fans

Once you take it apart to add your own things I doubt you will ever get your warranty if anything but the pump fails.

Unfounded conjecture – so let me clarify your doubts:

The only thing we cannot guarantee if user expands the loop is leaks, because we can’t obviously control how the user will implement setup (just like any custom loop).. However, we have done everything in our power to make sure that connections (clamps) are as “idiot proof†as possible. Videos and how-to’s will be available upon product release showing exactly the proper installation/upgrades procedures.

Anything you put together wrong is YOUR FAULT.

Correct: if you put it together wrong, isn’t it your fault by definition? However, our responsibility and commitment is to ensure that you don’t by providing clear and complete installation guide and maintenance procedures as mentioned above.

“It comes with fans pre-attached†; well those 8 screws really made me happy.

Making light of this additional convenience to users is interesting. We’ll see later below that you turn this opinion around 180 Degree to suit your purpose.

Remember this also makes it cheaper to ship for them so it’s a benefit for THEM.

False: space in packaging is identical; but cost of installation is higher (human resource), so it does cost us a little more to install them.

“Plug and play?†; yeah taking apart a CPU socket does really take some considerable time. I think this guy forgot what plug and play means.

False: we’ve setup the CPU upgrade method to simplest possible. It take no more than 3 minutes to change from one socket to another.

“Introduced side channels in a rad†; You mean it cost you less to manufacture because there is less metal.

False: no cost saving here – and it’s not “introduced side channelsâ€, it’s “enlarged the spacing of side channels†so that there is no chance that novice user could puncture them by using non standard screws. We’ve seen people bolting screws thru the entire radiator…

Not your excuse that you won’t poke holes in it with screws. If you didn’t want that then you could have just added a rubber plate where the screw comes through?

False: Thanks for the technical advice, but that wouldn’t eliminate the above scenario.

“Swivel fittings†; Single rotary from what I can see' date=' not dual, hmm. [/quote']

Hmm what? Swivel rotates 360 degrees. No need for dual joints here.

Pump was good' date=' fair enough, you made it cheaper for yourself by cutting out the manufactures. More profit for you. Great! Also small savings to the end user. [/quote']

False: our profit margins for this kind of volume products are actually much tighter because of competitive pressures. So the savings to users are huge. For reference H20-220 Elite kit sells for $239 whereas the H220 sells for $139.00 – See the videos explaining how we pulled it off, but I can summarize it again: manufacturing the pump ourselves, and large economies of scale by launching production of components by the thousands instead of by the hundreds.

Yup great job with the pump' date=' I won’t deny that. However, the comparison to the competition is wrong. Those pumps were made for doing a closed loop. [/quote']

False: There is nothing wrong about comparing when we clearly explain that our pump was specifically designed for a different –and bigger purpose: driving multiple cooling devices as needed.

Compare yourself to an 18W Laing DDC-1Plus pump. Yeah' date=' didn’t think so. Now your 5W seems kind of childish to boast about. [/quote']

Incorrect: the pump is rated at 6Watts – and we are absolutely not ashamed to comparing against the Laing (our MCP35X) either. In fact, prior to releasing the kit, at equal 4500 RPM this pump was able to beat the 35X pressure wise by 0.5 mH20 (4.7 for ours vs 4.2 for the 35X). We intentionally not implemented high speed in the kit in order to blend operating noise with fans.

Hmm' date=' adding another radiator? I assume you will have to drain the system of course first, not JUST undo the fitting and add a radiator. I wonder how easy those all in one systems are to drain and clean out. Hmmmmm… [/quote']

False: No more difficult that any DIY system: open fill-port and drain the rad in a bucket. Port is big enough that you don’t have to disconnect tubes, and if you are setting up additional components in the loop, since you are doing custom, there is nothing preventing you from adding a drain line in the process, isn't that true?

Yeah now to the worst thing in the whole cooler. The fill port. If you look at its position you will notice it is facing up now. Consider this. You have the cooler mounted in your case. Fans facing down because that is their stock position. Now look where your fill port is. WELL' date=' unless I’m very mistaken its pointing directly down. [/quote']

You are indeed very mistaken: The fans are meant to be attached to the top of the case, and the fill-port will be facing up. Not that it would change anything anyhow because the fill-port is sealed with an o-ring so it wouldn’t leak even if it was upside down.

Well oh oh. This won’t end well. Now you see what I mean. Now lets imagine for arguments sake that the radiator is pointing the other way. Well you seem to have a huge chunk of metal called your case in the way of your fill port now. Gold star on your design swiftech! Well from my previous point bleeding the air bubbles out of the system will be joy won’t it!

Self-contradicting: It is interesting that you dismissed installing 8 screws to attach the radiator as trivial above (“well those 8 screws really made me happyâ€), and you are now criticizing to having to unscrew them to access the fill-port..what was so easy before is now becoming so difficult.. looks like a contradiction to me, no? anyways, if you use this for CPU cooling only, there is no maintenance refill for 3 years, and if you do go custom, then you are by definition an enthusiast, and a little case modding shouldn’t scare you: simple tools (a dremel or a 1†hole saw) will allow you to cut a small hole directly above the fill-port for convenient repeated access (based on the premise that enthusiasts are frequently revising their configuration to add stuff).

Firstly all the other manufactures are going “F**k you Swiftech for making our product look worse than yours

Unfounded conjecture (?):

How do you know that for a fact? Any statements so far? Any examples you care to give? Or you are just imagining? Maybe you heard it directly from the horse’s mouth? If so, how? Let me ask you straight: are you representing one of these manufacturers? or are you associated with one of them? It is so easy to publish a rant like this under the protection of anonymity.. If you do represent one of our competitors, then have the courage to say it.

I have never seen more offensive advertising in my life. It’s like Coca Cola comparing itself to Pepsi in an advert. Disgraceful.

Disgraceful heh?

How about this for disgraceful: I remember (for being there) about 3 or 4 CES ago that Cool-It (who manufactures the corsair Kit) demoed their system comparing it to a first release Apogee water-block that was at least 3 generations behind. Talk about unequal comparison.. They just wanted to prove that their AIO was better than custom kits.. so they had to pick the most antiquated of our waterblocks. In contrast, we picked the latest models from the competition available at retail. Anyways, about comparative advertising in general, you must be equally offended by auto makers comparing each other’s models on a daily basis on TV right ? Let me add in contrast to your statement that every single member of the media that came to our booth clearly stated that it was the best demo they had seen BECAUSE it placed our kit in context with some of the competition. We used the latest kits available and we never said anything derogatory. We just SHOWED the temps, using equally equipped PC’s with equal settings, and had the public LISTEN to each one. If any of the members of the media had any doubts or concerns, don’t you think they would have voiced them right there and then?

Now the overclock is a joke. They did not tweek the voltage.

From whose point of view? This was NOT an overclocking contest. It was meant to show the OC at the click of a button like most novice users will do. It also guaranteed that the lowest possible voltage would be used to reduce the heat output on each CPU so as to minimize the thermal differences due to CPU quality. This was certainly not meant -nor presented as a lab experiment, it was presented to give users an idea of the respective ranking of the cooling systems. See more comments about this below.

Also' date=' saying they are on equal ground is an outright lie. [/quote']

I strongly object to your comment here: if you are accusing us of lying this is libel on your part, and I invite you to be very careful. At no point in any of the presentations did I represent that the CPU’s generated the same amount of heat. What I said was that the systems were identical, with identical setup and overclock, and that they were all at full load (100% CPU load). What I also said in the Techoftommorow presentation was, I quote: “we want to be able to read the temperatures and be able to see approximately what temperature differences are†.

You have all heard about the silicon lottery. Some chips get hotter overclocked' date=' some don’t. [/quote']

I presume you mean some chips get hotter than others.. In that sense, then the comment is technically correct, but see my own comments above – For the record, we also tested the various competitors using same CPU’s, and the ranking remained completely consistent with the CES presentation.

You put the other fans at MINIMUM and you put your fans at half speed. Well that’s a fair test.

False: we put all the fans at 1400 RPM, which also happens to be the minimum fan speed of both Corsair and Thermaltake.

Also did you happen to add more rads to those GTX680s well yeah of course you did.

False. The system using the GTX680’s only used the H220 radiator.

.. I have perhaps the worst bone to pick with Swiftech.. the loudness should have been measured by a decibel meter.

Not feasible: This was a trade show.. not a lab experiment. I can’t help it if people from the media didn’t have a db meter. Plus there was so much ambient noise that it would have been impossible to measure anything scientifically. See for example the difference in ambient noise between Linus video (using a directional mike) and Techoftomorrow video which also picked up all the room noises making it difficult to hear the systems themselves..

http://i.imgur.com/FSLOH.jpg[/img] Why the hell is there someone’s hand there? And' date=' why did the fans suddenly ramp up all of a sudden. [/quote']

What's with the suspicion seing someone hand?

We started the demo with system running at 1400 rpm, then increased the fan speed using the manufacturer software to full speed. Someone had to do it while I was talking, right? That was the very purpose of the demo: listening to full speed.

If you really want to go into custom watercooling buy a custom kit to start out with.

Why? because you say so? let the readers decide what’s best for them!

I feel so angry at swiftech for these vids and just wanted to set a few things straight for all the people saying how great it is.

You didn’t set anything straight: You voiced your personal opinions, more often than not using false or incorrect assumptions, and failed to present anything factually correct. Just a bunch of insinuations and conjectures.

I don't understand why temps were taken at lowered speeds and noise ratings were taken at highest speeds. I would like to personally see the temps when fans were at highest speeds. To see how comparable they really are.

To take temps at max speed would require that the systems ramp up in temp for 20 to 30 minutes. There was no time for that. And comparing temps at higher speeds to see how comparable they are? Comparing temps without comparing noise levels is utter nonsense. Running the Corsair unit at 2700 rpms is simply unbearable (as a matter of personal opinion).

I'm saying this will be a horrible failure when people want to add a gpu or something to their loop.

And how can you say that? We DEMONSTRATED that it works with 2 GTX680’s and with 2 Radeon’s 7900..

I actually had some doubt about the products too and was waiting for reviews after the cooler comes out.

Thanks for coming out to clarify the things for us.

[Aron_the_canadian]

its this type of shit that makes me respect a company. they dont just pump out products and hope a couple get sold they care and but lots of time and effort into them

[Mentalguy]

I'm a litte sceptical that it is the real Gabriel Rouchon. having a comeback as "Slit your wrists? Please be my guest, really.." is not something tha I would think a CEO of a corperation would say. But, it really doesn't matter. All the thing stated are good agument from what ghost said.

If that really is you, Gabe, i salute you for doing something that anyone who sells products should do. Getting to know who buys your products and being there to answer question and refuting any false accusations about your company.

[grouchon]

The only thing I was puzzling about was the demonstration of the Rig with dual 7970 at the end. It seemed like the hole system was running under full load' date=' as one would expect for a "this is as extreme as it gets" temperature test. But one can clearly see that only the heaven benchmark is running and the CPU is only stressed partially due to the benchmark. I guess a lot of viewers might have thought that also a prime95 torture test would have been at work. From that point of view the temps would have seem very impressive. One the other hand, in the techtomorrow video Gabriel explicitly says that prime95 is NOT at work. My guess is Gabriel truly (!!) forgot to mention it...[/quote']

After close to 15 minutes video time was running out for the media. The fifth system was only there to illustrate the pump ability to drive all these components, and we had no more time for benchmarking. Any enthusiast knows what using 3 rads will do to the system temps, right? So showing the temps was more of a quick thing..

But yes we could have been running prime and heaven consistently (or furmark, I've done this before..) but frankly what's the point in real life? Nobody plays COD3 while running prime, right?

[grouchon]

I'm a litte sceptical that it is the real Gabriel Rouchon. having a comeback as "Slit your wrists? Please be my guest' date=' really.." is not something tha I would think a CEO of a corperation would say. But, it really doesn't matter. All the thing stated are good agument from what ghost said. If that really is you, Gabe, i salute you for doing something that anyone who sells products should do. Getting to know who buys your products and being there to answer question and refuting any false accusations about your company.[/quote']

You may contact me at gabe@swiftech.com if you want to verify my identity; now, this comment on my part, similarly to that of the OP, was meant as a joke (it was followed by "seriously, let's move on"). My company is not that big that I can't allow myself to joke around a bit ;-)

[grouchon]

.

Holy. Well I actually can't argue with that. Well I guess you have actually made me believe in your product. Thank you. That's exactly what I wanted to know. If the fill port is intended to be placed facing upwards with a hole cut out to fill it from above then that would work. Well I take back all my arguments. I will also remove my whole rant and direct people to your post. I do not represent any company. I am simply a computer enthusiast. Edit: I would argue some of your responses but they are not directly related to the product so I will give it a pass.

Thank you, I truly appreciate that. It looks like this was all a big misunderstanding, and I'm glad that my responses helped to clarify things :-)

Looking forward to read independent reviews that will validate our observed results. Now I am heading to our factory to supervise production and make sure that we execute this very promising project properly.

[Dim]

So, uh...

I'll be grabbing me a H220, I guess...

It's good to see that this CEO actually knows what he's talking about.

[Ssoele]

So' date=' uh... I'll be grabbing me a H220, I guess...[/quote']

Same here, any news on when we will be able to buy these sweeties?

[Broxigar]

Hello all, this is Gabriel Rouchon (aka Gabe), CEO and Swiftech's founder. Here are my comments/responses to this rant.

To start off he says this product will bridge the gap between all in one systems and full on loops. Ha! I would say that rather a joke. If you really want to have a water cooling system then please' date=' please, do yourself the decency of buying your own custom loop. [/quote']

This is an arguable opinion:

First off, the pleasure of building your own system remains. It is only made simpler here. Secondly, building a custom loop doesn’t guarantee that you will have a better performing system. It only guarantees that 1/ you’ll have fun doing research for weeks or months looking for individual components and 2/ you’ll be able to pick the components that please you most cosmetically. Do not tell us that building a custom loop will automatically result in a higher performing system.. there are just too many options out there. It may or may not, and that’s all you can say.

But more about that end. “This system can be used by novices and custom DIY users†If I ever see a DIY user buying an all-in-one cooler I will slit my wrists. Now seriously.

Slit your wrists? Please be my guest, really..

But seriously, let’s move on..

That’s like saying a pre-built PC can be used by custom PC builders. Eh' date=' no thanks. Then he goes ahead and says there’s a 3 year warranty. Well what he is saying is there is a 3 years warranty on your pump. Because that is really the only thing that can fail in a loop. [/quote']

False/incomplete: you forget the fans

Once you take it apart to add your own things I doubt you will ever get your warranty if anything but the pump fails.

Unfounded conjecture – so let me clarify your doubts:

The only thing we cannot guarantee if user expands the loop is leaks, because we can’t obviously control how the user will implement setup (just like any custom loop).. However, we have done everything in our power to make sure that connections (clamps) are as “idiot proof†as possible. Videos and how-to’s will be available upon product release showing exactly the proper installation/upgrades procedures.

Anything you put together wrong is YOUR FAULT.

Correct: if you put it together wrong, isn’t it your fault by definition? However, our responsibility and commitment is to ensure that you don’t by providing clear and complete installation guide and maintenance procedures as mentioned above.

“It comes with fans pre-attached†; well those 8 screws really made me happy.

Making light of this additional convenience to users is interesting. We’ll see later below that you turn this opinion around 180 Degree to suit your purpose.

Remember this also makes it cheaper to ship for them so it’s a benefit for THEM.

False: space in packaging is identical; but cost of installation is higher (human resource), so it does cost us a little more to install them.

“Plug and play?†; yeah taking apart a CPU socket does really take some considerable time. I think this guy forgot what plug and play means.

False: we’ve setup the CPU upgrade method to simplest possible. It take no more than 3 minutes to change from one socket to another.

“Introduced side channels in a rad†; You mean it cost you less to manufacture because there is less metal.

False: no cost saving here – and it’s not “introduced side channelsâ€, it’s “enlarged the spacing of side channels†so that there is no chance that novice user could puncture them by using non standard screws. We’ve seen people bolting screws thru the entire radiator…

Not your excuse that you won’t poke holes in it with screws. If you didn’t want that then you could have just added a rubber plate where the screw comes through?

False: Thanks for the technical advice, but that wouldn’t eliminate the above scenario.

“Swivel fittings†; Single rotary from what I can see' date=' not dual, hmm. [/quote']

Hmm what? Swivel rotates 360 degrees. No need for dual joints here.

Pump was good' date=' fair enough, you made it cheaper for yourself by cutting out the manufactures. More profit for you. Great! Also small savings to the end user. [/quote']

False: our profit margins for this kind of volume products are actually much tighter because of competitive pressures. So the savings to users are huge. For reference H20-220 Elite kit sells for $239 whereas the H220 sells for $139.00 – See the videos explaining how we pulled it off, but I can summarize it again: manufacturing the pump ourselves, and large economies of scale by launching production of components by the thousands instead of by the hundreds.

Yup great job with the pump' date=' I won’t deny that. However, the comparison to the competition is wrong. Those pumps were made for doing a closed loop. [/quote']

False: There is nothing wrong about comparing when we clearly explain that our pump was specifically designed for a different –and bigger purpose: driving multiple cooling devices as needed.

Compare yourself to an 18W Laing DDC-1Plus pump. Yeah' date=' didn’t think so. Now your 5W seems kind of childish to boast about. [/quote']

Incorrect: the pump is rated at 6Watts – and we are absolutely not ashamed to comparing against the Laing (our MCP35X) either. In fact, prior to releasing the kit, at equal 4500 RPM this pump was able to beat the 35X pressure wise by 0.5 mH20 (4.7 for ours vs 4.2 for the 35X). We intentionally not implemented high speed in the kit in order to blend operating noise with fans.

Hmm' date=' adding another radiator? I assume you will have to drain the system of course first, not JUST undo the fitting and add a radiator. I wonder how easy those all in one systems are to drain and clean out. Hmmmmm… [/quote']

False: No more difficult that any DIY system: open fill-port and drain the rad in a bucket. Port is big enough that you don’t have to disconnect tubes, and if you are setting up additional components in the loop, since you are doing custom, there is nothing preventing you from adding a drain line in the process, isn't that true?

Yeah now to the worst thing in the whole cooler. The fill port. If you look at its position you will notice it is facing up now. Consider this. You have the cooler mounted in your case. Fans facing down because that is their stock position. Now look where your fill port is. WELL' date=' unless I’m very mistaken its pointing directly down. [/quote']

You are indeed very mistaken: The fans are meant to be attached to the top of the case, and the fill-port will be facing up. Not that it would change anything anyhow because the fill-port is sealed with an o-ring so it wouldn’t leak even if it was upside down.

Well oh oh. This won’t end well. Now you see what I mean. Now lets imagine for arguments sake that the radiator is pointing the other way. Well you seem to have a huge chunk of metal called your case in the way of your fill port now. Gold star on your design swiftech! Well from my previous point bleeding the air bubbles out of the system will be joy won’t it!

Self-contradicting: It is interesting that you dismissed installing 8 screws to attach the radiator as trivial above (“well those 8 screws really made me happyâ€), and you are now criticizing to having to unscrew them to access the fill-port..what was so easy before is now becoming so difficult.. looks like a contradiction to me, no? anyways, if you use this for CPU cooling only, there is no maintenance refill for 3 years, and if you do go custom, then you are by definition an enthusiast, and a little case modding shouldn’t scare you: simple tools (a dremel or a 1†hole saw) will allow you to cut a small hole directly above the fill-port for convenient repeated access (based on the premise that enthusiasts are frequently revising their configuration to add stuff).

Firstly all the other manufactures are going “F**k you Swiftech for making our product look worse than yours

Unfounded conjecture (?):

How do you know that for a fact? Any statements so far? Any examples you care to give? Or you are just imagining? Maybe you heard it directly from the horse’s mouth? If so, how? Let me ask you straight: are you representing one of these manufacturers? or are you associated with one of them? It is so easy to publish a rant like this under the protection of anonymity.. If you do represent one of our competitors, then have the courage to say it.

I have never seen more offensive advertising in my life. It’s like Coca Cola comparing itself to Pepsi in an advert. Disgraceful.

Disgraceful heh?

How about this for disgraceful: I remember (for being there) about 3 or 4 CES ago that Cool-It (who manufactures the corsair Kit) demoed their system comparing it to a first release Apogee water-block that was at least 3 generations behind. Talk about unequal comparison.. They just wanted to prove that their AIO was better than custom kits.. so they had to pick the most antiquated of our waterblocks. In contrast, we picked the latest models from the competition available at retail. Anyways, about comparative advertising in general, you must be equally offended by auto makers comparing each other’s models on a daily basis on TV right ? Let me add in contrast to your statement that every single member of the media that came to our booth clearly stated that it was the best demo they had seen BECAUSE it placed our kit in context with some of the competition. We used the latest kits available and we never said anything derogatory. We just SHOWED the temps, using equally equipped PC’s with equal settings, and had the public LISTEN to each one. If any of the members of the media had any doubts or concerns, don’t you think they would have voiced them right there and then?

Now the overclock is a joke. They did not tweek the voltage.

From whose point of view? This was NOT an overclocking contest. It was meant to show the OC at the click of a button like most novice users will do. It also guaranteed that the lowest possible voltage would be used to reduce the heat output on each CPU so as to minimize the thermal differences due to CPU quality. This was certainly not meant -nor presented as a lab experiment, it was presented to give users an idea of the respective ranking of the cooling systems. See more comments about this below.

Also' date=' saying they are on equal ground is an outright lie. [/quote']

I strongly object to your comment here: if you are accusing us of lying this is libel on your part, and I invite you to be very careful. At no point in any of the presentations did I represent that the CPU’s generated the same amount of heat. What I said was that the systems were identical, with identical setup and overclock, and that they were all at full load (100% CPU load). What I also said in the Techoftommorow presentation was, I quote: “we want to be able to read the temperatures and be able to see approximately what temperature differences are†.

You have all heard about the silicon lottery. Some chips get hotter overclocked' date=' some don’t. [/quote']

I presume you mean some chips get hotter than others.. In that sense, then the comment is technically correct, but see my own comments above – For the record, we also tested the various competitors using same CPU’s, and the ranking remained completely consistent with the CES presentation.

You put the other fans at MINIMUM and you put your fans at half speed. Well that’s a fair test.

False: we put all the fans at 1400 RPM, which also happens to be the minimum fan speed of both Corsair and Thermaltake.

Also did you happen to add more rads to those GTX680s well yeah of course you did.

False. The system using the GTX680’s only used the H220 radiator.

.. I have perhaps the worst bone to pick with Swiftech.. the loudness should have been measured by a decibel meter.

Not feasible: This was a trade show.. not a lab experiment. I can’t help it if people from the media didn’t have a db meter. Plus there was so much ambient noise that it would have been impossible to measure anything scientifically. See for example the difference in ambient noise between Linus video (using a directional mike) and Techoftomorrow video which also picked up all the room noises making it difficult to hear the systems themselves..

http://i.imgur.com/FSLOH.jpg[/img] Why the hell is there someone’s hand there? And' date=' why did the fans suddenly ramp up all of a sudden. [/quote']

What's with the suspicion seing someone hand?

We started the demo with system running at 1400 rpm, then increased the fan speed using the manufacturer software to full speed. Someone had to do it while I was talking, right? That was the very purpose of the demo: listening to full speed.

If you really want to go into custom watercooling buy a custom kit to start out with.

Why? because you say so? let the readers decide what’s best for them!

I feel so angry at swiftech for these vids and just wanted to set a few things straight for all the people saying how great it is.

You didn’t set anything straight: You voiced your personal opinions, more often than not using false or incorrect assumptions, and failed to present anything factually correct. Just a bunch of insinuations and conjectures.

I don't understand why temps were taken at lowered speeds and noise ratings were taken at highest speeds. I would like to personally see the temps when fans were at highest speeds. To see how comparable they really are.

To take temps at max speed would require that the systems ramp up in temp for 20 to 30 minutes. There was no time for that. And comparing temps at higher speeds to see how comparable they are? Comparing temps without comparing noise levels is utter nonsense. Running the Corsair unit at 2700 rpms is simply unbearable (as a matter of personal opinion).

I'm saying this will be a horrible failure when people want to add a gpu or something to their loop.

And how can you say that? We DEMONSTRATED that it works with 2 GTX680’s and with 2 Radeon’s 7900..

...BAM!

Thank you good sir, I will be waiting for one of these to replace my D14.

[jukki]

Only thing i hate about this is that I allready bought my D14 2 weeks ago...

[Borek]

Hello all, this is Gabriel Rouchon (aka Gabe), CEO and Swiftech's founder. Here are my comments/responses to this rant.

To start off he says this product will bridge the gap between all in one systems and full on loops. Ha! I would say that rather a joke. If you really want to have a water cooling system then please' date=' please, do yourself the decency of buying your own custom loop. [/quote']

This is an arguable opinion:

First off, the pleasure of building your own system remains. It is only made simpler here. Secondly, building a custom loop doesn’t guarantee that you will have a better performing system. It only guarantees that 1/ you’ll have fun doing research for weeks or months looking for individual components and 2/ you’ll be able to pick the components that please you most cosmetically. Do not tell us that building a custom loop will automatically result in a higher performing system.. there are just too many options out there. It may or may not, and that’s all you can say.

But more about that end. “This system can be used by novices and custom DIY users†If I ever see a DIY user buying an all-in-one cooler I will slit my wrists. Now seriously.

Slit your wrists? Please be my guest, really..

But seriously, let’s move on..

That’s like saying a pre-built PC can be used by custom PC builders. Eh' date=' no thanks. Then he goes ahead and says there’s a 3 year warranty. Well what he is saying is there is a 3 years warranty on your pump. Because that is really the only thing that can fail in a loop. [/quote']

False/incomplete: you forget the fans

Once you take it apart to add your own things I doubt you will ever get your warranty if anything but the pump fails.

Unfounded conjecture – so let me clarify your doubts:

The only thing we cannot guarantee if user expands the loop is leaks, because we can’t obviously control how the user will implement setup (just like any custom loop).. However, we have done everything in our power to make sure that connections (clamps) are as “idiot proof†as possible. Videos and how-to’s will be available upon product release showing exactly the proper installation/upgrades procedures.

Anything you put together wrong is YOUR FAULT.

Correct: if you put it together wrong, isn’t it your fault by definition? However, our responsibility and commitment is to ensure that you don’t by providing clear and complete installation guide and maintenance procedures as mentioned above.

“It comes with fans pre-attached†; well those 8 screws really made me happy.

Making light of this additional convenience to users is interesting. We’ll see later below that you turn this opinion around 180 Degree to suit your purpose.

Remember this also makes it cheaper to ship for them so it’s a benefit for THEM.

False: space in packaging is identical; but cost of installation is higher (human resource), so it does cost us a little more to install them.

“Plug and play?†; yeah taking apart a CPU socket does really take some considerable time. I think this guy forgot what plug and play means.

False: we’ve setup the CPU upgrade method to simplest possible. It take no more than 3 minutes to change from one socket to another.

“Introduced side channels in a rad†; You mean it cost you less to manufacture because there is less metal.

False: no cost saving here – and it’s not “introduced side channelsâ€, it’s “enlarged the spacing of side channels†so that there is no chance that novice user could puncture them by using non standard screws. We’ve seen people bolting screws thru the entire radiator…

Not your excuse that you won’t poke holes in it with screws. If you didn’t want that then you could have just added a rubber plate where the screw comes through?

False: Thanks for the technical advice, but that wouldn’t eliminate the above scenario.

“Swivel fittings†; Single rotary from what I can see' date=' not dual, hmm. [/quote']

Hmm what? Swivel rotates 360 degrees. No need for dual joints here.

Pump was good' date=' fair enough, you made it cheaper for yourself by cutting out the manufactures. More profit for you. Great! Also small savings to the end user. [/quote']

False: our profit margins for this kind of volume products are actually much tighter because of competitive pressures. So the savings to users are huge. For reference H20-220 Elite kit sells for $239 whereas the H220 sells for $139.00 – See the videos explaining how we pulled it off, but I can summarize it again: manufacturing the pump ourselves, and large economies of scale by launching production of components by the thousands instead of by the hundreds.

Yup great job with the pump' date=' I won’t deny that. However, the comparison to the competition is wrong. Those pumps were made for doing a closed loop. [/quote']

False: There is nothing wrong about comparing when we clearly explain that our pump was specifically designed for a different –and bigger purpose: driving multiple cooling devices as needed.

Compare yourself to an 18W Laing DDC-1Plus pump. Yeah' date=' didn’t think so. Now your 5W seems kind of childish to boast about. [/quote']

Incorrect: the pump is rated at 6Watts – and we are absolutely not ashamed to comparing against the Laing (our MCP35X) either. In fact, prior to releasing the kit, at equal 4500 RPM this pump was able to beat the 35X pressure wise by 0.5 mH20 (4.7 for ours vs 4.2 for the 35X). We intentionally not implemented high speed in the kit in order to blend operating noise with fans.

Hmm' date=' adding another radiator? I assume you will have to drain the system of course first, not JUST undo the fitting and add a radiator. I wonder how easy those all in one systems are to drain and clean out. Hmmmmm… [/quote']

False: No more difficult that any DIY system: open fill-port and drain the rad in a bucket. Port is big enough that you don’t have to disconnect tubes, and if you are setting up additional components in the loop, since you are doing custom, there is nothing preventing you from adding a drain line in the process, isn't that true?

Yeah now to the worst thing in the whole cooler. The fill port. If you look at its position you will notice it is facing up now. Consider this. You have the cooler mounted in your case. Fans facing down because that is their stock position. Now look where your fill port is. WELL' date=' unless I’m very mistaken its pointing directly down. [/quote']

You are indeed very mistaken: The fans are meant to be attached to the top of the case, and the fill-port will be facing up. Not that it would change anything anyhow because the fill-port is sealed with an o-ring so it wouldn’t leak even if it was upside down.

Well oh oh. This won’t end well. Now you see what I mean. Now lets imagine for arguments sake that the radiator is pointing the other way. Well you seem to have a huge chunk of metal called your case in the way of your fill port now. Gold star on your design swiftech! Well from my previous point bleeding the air bubbles out of the system will be joy won’t it!

Self-contradicting: It is interesting that you dismissed installing 8 screws to attach the radiator as trivial above (“well those 8 screws really made me happyâ€), and you are now criticizing to having to unscrew them to access the fill-port..what was so easy before is now becoming so difficult.. looks like a contradiction to me, no? anyways, if you use this for CPU cooling only, there is no maintenance refill for 3 years, and if you do go custom, then you are by definition an enthusiast, and a little case modding shouldn’t scare you: simple tools (a dremel or a 1†hole saw) will allow you to cut a small hole directly above the fill-port for convenient repeated access (based on the premise that enthusiasts are frequently revising their configuration to add stuff).

Firstly all the other manufactures are going “F**k you Swiftech for making our product look worse than yours

Unfounded conjecture (?):

How do you know that for a fact? Any statements so far? Any examples you care to give? Or you are just imagining? Maybe you heard it directly from the horse’s mouth? If so, how? Let me ask you straight: are you representing one of these manufacturers? or are you associated with one of them? It is so easy to publish a rant like this under the protection of anonymity.. If you do represent one of our competitors, then have the courage to say it.

I have never seen more offensive advertising in my life. It’s like Coca Cola comparing itself to Pepsi in an advert. Disgraceful.

Disgraceful heh?

How about this for disgraceful: I remember (for being there) about 3 or 4 CES ago that Cool-It (who manufactures the corsair Kit) demoed their system comparing it to a first release Apogee water-block that was at least 3 generations behind. Talk about unequal comparison.. They just wanted to prove that their AIO was better than custom kits.. so they had to pick the most antiquated of our waterblocks. In contrast, we picked the latest models from the competition available at retail. Anyways, about comparative advertising in general, you must be equally offended by auto makers comparing each other’s models on a daily basis on TV right ? Let me add in contrast to your statement that every single member of the media that came to our booth clearly stated that it was the best demo they had seen BECAUSE it placed our kit in context with some of the competition. We used the latest kits available and we never said anything derogatory. We just SHOWED the temps, using equally equipped PC’s with equal settings, and had the public LISTEN to each one. If any of the members of the media had any doubts or concerns, don’t you think they would have voiced them right there and then?

Now the overclock is a joke. They did not tweek the voltage.

From whose point of view? This was NOT an overclocking contest. It was meant to show the OC at the click of a button like most novice users will do. It also guaranteed that the lowest possible voltage would be used to reduce the heat output on each CPU so as to minimize the thermal differences due to CPU quality. This was certainly not meant -nor presented as a lab experiment, it was presented to give users an idea of the respective ranking of the cooling systems. See more comments about this below.

Also' date=' saying they are on equal ground is an outright lie. [/quote']

I strongly object to your comment here: if you are accusing us of lying this is libel on your part, and I invite you to be very careful. At no point in any of the presentations did I represent that the CPU’s generated the same amount of heat. What I said was that the systems were identical, with identical setup and overclock, and that they were all at full load (100% CPU load). What I also said in the Techoftommorow presentation was, I quote: “we want to be able to read the temperatures and be able to see approximately what temperature differences are†.

You have all heard about the silicon lottery. Some chips get hotter overclocked' date=' some don’t. [/quote']

I presume you mean some chips get hotter than others.. In that sense, then the comment is technically correct, but see my own comments above – For the record, we also tested the various competitors using same CPU’s, and the ranking remained completely consistent with the CES presentation.

You put the other fans at MINIMUM and you put your fans at half speed. Well that’s a fair test.

False: we put all the fans at 1400 RPM, which also happens to be the minimum fan speed of both Corsair and Thermaltake.

Also did you happen to add more rads to those GTX680s well yeah of course you did.

False. The system using the GTX680’s only used the H220 radiator.

.. I have perhaps the worst bone to pick with Swiftech.. the loudness should have been measured by a decibel meter.

Not feasible: This was a trade show.. not a lab experiment. I can’t help it if people from the media didn’t have a db meter. Plus there was so much ambient noise that it would have been impossible to measure anything scientifically. See for example the difference in ambient noise between Linus video (using a directional mike) and Techoftomorrow video which also picked up all the room noises making it difficult to hear the systems themselves..

http://i.imgur.com/FSLOH.jpg[/img] Why the hell is there someone’s hand there? And' date=' why did the fans suddenly ramp up all of a sudden. [/quote']

What's with the suspicion seing someone hand?

We started the demo with system running at 1400 rpm, then increased the fan speed using the manufacturer software to full speed. Someone had to do it while I was talking, right? That was the very purpose of the demo: listening to full speed.

If you really want to go into custom watercooling buy a custom kit to start out with.

Why? because you say so? let the readers decide what’s best for them!

I feel so angry at swiftech for these vids and just wanted to set a few things straight for all the people saying how great it is.

You didn’t set anything straight: You voiced your personal opinions, more often than not using false or incorrect assumptions, and failed to present anything factually correct. Just a bunch of insinuations and conjectures.

I don't understand why temps were taken at lowered speeds and noise ratings were taken at highest speeds. I would like to personally see the temps when fans were at highest speeds. To see how comparable they really are.

To take temps at max speed would require that the systems ramp up in temp for 20 to 30 minutes. There was no time for that. And comparing temps at higher speeds to see how comparable they are? Comparing temps without comparing noise levels is utter nonsense. Running the Corsair unit at 2700 rpms is simply unbearable (as a matter of personal opinion).

I'm saying this will be a horrible failure when people want to add a gpu or something to their loop.

And how can you say that? We DEMONSTRATED that it works with 2 GTX680’s and with 2 Radeon’s 7900..

Mr. Grouchon, you sir have won my heart and mind.

[Guest]

Hello all, this is Gabriel Rouchon (aka Gabe), CEO and Swiftech's founder. Here are my comments/responses to this rant.

To start off he says this product will bridge the gap between all in one systems and full on loops. Ha! I would say that rather a joke. If you really want to have a water cooling system then please' date=' please, do yourself the decency of buying your own custom loop. [/quote']

This is an arguable opinion:

First off, the pleasure of building your own system remains. It is only made simpler here. Secondly, building a custom loop doesn’t guarantee that you will have a better performing system. It only guarantees that 1/ you’ll have fun doing research for weeks or months looking for individual components and 2/ you’ll be able to pick the components that please you most cosmetically. Do not tell us that building a custom loop will automatically result in a higher performing system.. there are just too many options out there. It may or may not, and that’s all you can say.

But more about that end. “This system can be used by novices and custom DIY users” If I ever see a DIY user buying an all-in-one cooler I will slit my wrists. Now seriously.

Slit your wrists? Please be my guest, really..

But seriously, let’s move on..

That’s like saying a pre-built PC can be used by custom PC builders. Eh' date=' no thanks. Then he goes ahead and says there’s a 3 year warranty. Well what he is saying is there is a 3 years warranty on your pump. Because that is really the only thing that can fail in a loop. [/quote']

False/incomplete: you forget the fans

Once you take it apart to add your own things I doubt you will ever get your warranty if anything but the pump fails.

Unfounded conjecture – so let me clarify your doubts:

The only thing we cannot guarantee if user expands the loop is leaks, because we can’t obviously control how the user will implement setup (just like any custom loop).. However, we have done everything in our power to make sure that connections (clamps) are as “idiot proof” as possible. Videos and how-to’s will be available upon product release showing exactly the proper installation/upgrades procedures.

Anything you put together wrong is YOUR FAULT.

Correct: if you put it together wrong, isn’t it your fault by definition? However, our responsibility and commitment is to ensure that you don’t by providing clear and complete installation guide and maintenance procedures as mentioned above.

“It comes with fans pre-attached” ; well those 8 screws really made me happy.

Making light of this additional convenience to users is interesting. We’ll see later below that you turn this opinion around 180 Degree to suit your purpose.

Remember this also makes it cheaper to ship for them so it’s a benefit for THEM.

False: space in packaging is identical; but cost of installation is higher (human resource), so it does cost us a little more to install them.

“Plug and play?” ; yeah taking apart a CPU socket does really take some considerable time. I think this guy forgot what plug and play means.

False: we’ve setup the CPU upgrade method to simplest possible. It take no more than 3 minutes to change from one socket to another.

“Introduced side channels in a rad” ; You mean it cost you less to manufacture because there is less metal.

False: no cost saving here – and it’s not “introduced side channels”, it’s “enlarged the spacing of side channels” so that there is no chance that novice user could puncture them by using non standard screws. We’ve seen people bolting screws thru the entire radiator…

Not your excuse that you won’t poke holes in it with screws. If you didn’t want that then you could have just added a rubber plate where the screw comes through?

False: Thanks for the technical advice, but that wouldn’t eliminate the above scenario.

“Swivel fittings” ; Single rotary from what I can see' date=' not dual, hmm. [/quote']

Hmm what? Swivel rotates 360 degrees. No need for dual joints here.

Pump was good' date=' fair enough, you made it cheaper for yourself by cutting out the manufactures. More profit for you. Great! Also small savings to the end user. [/quote']

False: our profit margins for this kind of volume products are actually much tighter because of competitive pressures. So the savings to users are huge. For reference H20-220 Elite kit sells for $239 whereas the H220 sells for $139.00 – See the videos explaining how we pulled it off, but I can summarize it again: manufacturing the pump ourselves, and large economies of scale by launching production of components by the thousands instead of by the hundreds.

Yup great job with the pump' date=' I won’t deny that. However, the comparison to the competition is wrong. Those pumps were made for doing a closed loop. [/quote']

False: There is nothing wrong about comparing when we clearly explain that our pump was specifically designed for a different –and bigger purpose: driving multiple cooling devices as needed.

Compare yourself to an 18W Laing DDC-1Plus pump. Yeah' date=' didn’t think so. Now your 5W seems kind of childish to boast about. [/quote']

Incorrect: the pump is rated at 6Watts – and we are absolutely not ashamed to comparing against the Laing (our MCP35X) either. In fact, prior to releasing the kit, at equal 4500 RPM this pump was able to beat the 35X pressure wise by 0.5 mH20 (4.7 for ours vs 4.2 for the 35X). We intentionally not implemented high speed in the kit in order to blend operating noise with fans.

Hmm' date=' adding another radiator? I assume you will have to drain the system of course first, not JUST undo the fitting and add a radiator. I wonder how easy those all in one systems are to drain and clean out. Hmmmmm… [/quote']

False: No more difficult that any DIY system: open fill-port and drain the rad in a bucket. Port is big enough that you don’t have to disconnect tubes, and if you are setting up additional components in the loop, since you are doing custom, there is nothing preventing you from adding a drain line in the process, isn't that true?

Yeah now to the worst thing in the whole cooler. The fill port. If you look at its position you will notice it is facing up now. Consider this. You have the cooler mounted in your case. Fans facing down because that is their stock position. Now look where your fill port is. WELL' date=' unless I’m very mistaken its pointing directly down. [/quote']

You are indeed very mistaken: The fans are meant to be attached to the top of the case, and the fill-port will be facing up. Not that it would change anything anyhow because the fill-port is sealed with an o-ring so it wouldn’t leak even if it was upside down.

Well oh oh. This won’t end well. Now you see what I mean. Now lets imagine for arguments sake that the radiator is pointing the other way. Well you seem to have a huge chunk of metal called your case in the way of your fill port now. Gold star on your design swiftech! Well from my previous point bleeding the air bubbles out of the system will be joy won’t it!

Self-contradicting: It is interesting that you dismissed installing 8 screws to attach the radiator as trivial above (“well those 8 screws really made me happy”), and you are now criticizing to having to unscrew them to access the fill-port..what was so easy before is now becoming so difficult.. looks like a contradiction to me, no? anyways, if you use this for CPU cooling only, there is no maintenance refill for 3 years, and if you do go custom, then you are by definition an enthusiast, and a little case modding shouldn’t scare you: simple tools (a dremel or a 1” hole saw) will allow you to cut a small hole directly above the fill-port for convenient repeated access (based on the premise that enthusiasts are frequently revising their configuration to add stuff).

Firstly all the other manufactures are going “F**k you Swiftech for making our product look worse than yours

Unfounded conjecture (?):

How do you know that for a fact? Any statements so far? Any examples you care to give? Or you are just imagining? Maybe you heard it directly from the horse’s mouth? If so, how? Let me ask you straight: are you representing one of these manufacturers? or are you associated with one of them? It is so easy to publish a rant like this under the protection of anonymity.. If you do represent one of our competitors, then have the courage to say it.

I have never seen more offensive advertising in my life. It’s like Coca Cola comparing itself to Pepsi in an advert. Disgraceful.

Disgraceful heh?

How about this for disgraceful: I remember (for being there) about 3 or 4 CES ago that Cool-It (who manufactures the corsair Kit) demoed their system comparing it to a first release Apogee water-block that was at least 3 generations behind. Talk about unequal comparison.. They just wanted to prove that their AIO was better than custom kits.. so they had to pick the most antiquated of our waterblocks. In contrast, we picked the latest models from the competition available at retail. Anyways, about comparative advertising in general, you must be equally offended by auto makers comparing each other’s models on a daily basis on TV right ? Let me add in contrast to your statement that every single member of the media that came to our booth clearly stated that it was the best demo they had seen BECAUSE it placed our kit in context with some of the competition. We used the latest kits available and we never said anything derogatory. We just SHOWED the temps, using equally equipped PC’s with equal settings, and had the public LISTEN to each one. If any of the members of the media had any doubts or concerns, don’t you think they would have voiced them right there and then?

Now the overclock is a joke. They did not tweek the voltage.

From whose point of view? This was NOT an overclocking contest. It was meant to show the OC at the click of a button like most novice users will do. It also guaranteed that the lowest possible voltage would be used to reduce the heat output on each CPU so as to minimize the thermal differences due to CPU quality. This was certainly not meant -nor presented as a lab experiment, it was presented to give users an idea of the respective ranking of the cooling systems. See more comments about this below.

Also' date=' saying they are on equal ground is an outright lie. [/quote']

I strongly object to your comment here: if you are accusing us of lying this is libel on your part, and I invite you to be very careful. At no point in any of the presentations did I represent that the CPU’s generated the same amount of heat. What I said was that the systems were identical, with identical setup and overclock, and that they were all at full load (100% CPU load). What I also said in the Techoftommorow presentation was, I quote: “we want to be able to read the temperatures and be able to see approximately what temperature differences are” .

You have all heard about the silicon lottery. Some chips get hotter overclocked' date=' some don’t. [/quote']

I presume you mean some chips get hotter than others.. In that sense, then the comment is technically correct, but see my own comments above – For the record, we also tested the various competitors using same CPU’s, and the ranking remained completely consistent with the CES presentation.

You put the other fans at MINIMUM and you put your fans at half speed. Well that’s a fair test.

False: we put all the fans at 1400 RPM, which also happens to be the minimum fan speed of both Corsair and Thermaltake.

Also did you happen to add more rads to those GTX680s well yeah of course you did.

False. The system using the GTX680’s only used the H220 radiator.

.. I have perhaps the worst bone to pick with Swiftech.. the loudness should have been measured by a decibel meter.

Not feasible: This was a trade show.. not a lab experiment. I can’t help it if people from the media didn’t have a db meter. Plus there was so much ambient noise that it would have been impossible to measure anything scientifically. See for example the difference in ambient noise between Linus video (using a directional mike) and Techoftomorrow video which also picked up all the room noises making it difficult to hear the systems themselves..

http://i.imgur.com/FSLOH.jpg[/img] Why the hell is there someone’s hand there? And' date=' why did the fans suddenly ramp up all of a sudden. [/quote']

What's with the suspicion seing someone hand?

We started the demo with system running at 1400 rpm, then increased the fan speed using the manufacturer software to full speed. Someone had to do it while I was talking, right? That was the very purpose of the demo: listening to full speed.

If you really want to go into custom watercooling buy a custom kit to start out with.

Why? because you say so? let the readers decide what’s best for them!

I feel so angry at swiftech for these vids and just wanted to set a few things straight for all the people saying how great it is.

You didn’t set anything straight: You voiced your personal opinions, more often than not using false or incorrect assumptions, and failed to present anything factually correct. Just a bunch of insinuations and conjectures.

I don't understand why temps were taken at lowered speeds and noise ratings were taken at highest speeds. I would like to personally see the temps when fans were at highest speeds. To see how comparable they really are.

To take temps at max speed would require that the systems ramp up in temp for 20 to 30 minutes. There was no time for that. And comparing temps at higher speeds to see how comparable they are? Comparing temps without comparing noise levels is utter nonsense. Running the Corsair unit at 2700 rpms is simply unbearable (as a matter of personal opinion).

I'm saying this will be a horrible failure when people want to add a gpu or something to their loop.

And how can you say that? We DEMONSTRATED that it works with 2 GTX680’s and with 2 Radeon’s 7900..

I think a lot of people including myself have a new found respect for you both as a CEO and as a company. I'm eagerly looking forward to this :)

[Ghost]

I'm a little skeptical that it is the real Gabriel Rouchon. having a comeback as "Slit your wrists? Please be my guest' date=' really.." is not something that I would think a CEO of a corporation would say. But, it really doesn't matter. All the thing stated are good argument from what ghost said. If that really is you, Gabe, i salute you for doing something that anyone who sells products should do. Getting to know who buys your products and being there to answer question and refuting any false accusations about your company.[/quote']

I would like to say that in my opinion its fair to say so. Now I know he did just follow on from what I said. It was unprofessional of me to put that in a rant but then again it is a rant.

As I stated in a post above the reply the purpose of the rant was to argue the points I made; "Its a sort of prove me wrong thing!".

To see that a CEO of a company reply, shows he really cares for his product and peoples opinions of them.

In fact, that he found it in such a small forum means he was looking for things like this or was told about it. Which is an amazing thing to do; look for bad feedback.

I doubt anyone would spend so much time reading and replying to a rant unless he really was a CEO.

I think he won me over with his opening argument.

It only guarantees that 1/ you’ll have fun doing research for weeks or months looking for individual components and 2/ you’ll be able to pick the components that please you most cosmetically.

Someone who understands the pleasure of water cooling so much is someone I can listen to. I think thats what got >>me

[Prettyfinej]

Seeing this thread makes me want it more :)

[Ghost]

Seeing this thread makes me want it more :)

After Mr. Rouchon replied I did my best to turn my thread into that.

After all the fact he did reply should make you want this product.

[Bob]

When this is released I am really going to have to have someone convenience me not to get it.

[Ghost]

When this is released I am really going to have to have someone convenience me not to get it.

Are you actually looking for a liquid cooler or is it an impulse buy?

[Administrator]

I'm a litte sceptical that it is the real Gabriel Rouchon. having a comeback as "Slit your wrists? Please be my guest, really.." is not something tha I would think a CEO of a corperation would say. But, it really doesn't matter. All the thing stated are good agument from what ghost said.

If that really is you, Gabe, i salute you for doing something that anyone who sells products should do. Getting to know who buys your products and being there to answer question and refuting any false accusations about your company.

I have confirmed his identity and changed his account ranking so he (and any other future industry affiliates that join the site) can be easily identified :D

[Ghost]

I'm a litte sceptical that it is the real Gabriel Rouchon. having a comeback as "Slit your wrists? Please be my guest, really.." is not something tha I would think a CEO of a corperation would say. But, it really doesn't matter. All the thing stated are good agument from what ghost said.

If that really is you, Gabe, i salute you for doing something that anyone who sells products should do. Getting to know who buys your products and being there to answer question and refuting any false accusations about your company.

Thanks Slick!