i want to start programming

[pbenologa]

-snip-

Lynda.com! They have a wide range of video tutorial!

[Builder]

Javascript is a beautiful language that Im just starting to realise.

The syntax of JavaScript is awful.

[Builder]

Set up a linux machine and start coding python. 

 

Codeacademy is only good for seeing how programming works, it honestly won't teach you jack shit.

What are you talking about? You don't need Linux to write Python code and Codecademy is a fine place to learn.

[junker]

What are you talking about? You don't need Linux to write Python code and Codecademy is a fine place to learn.

It is so much easier to work with Django and Python in Linux. Some Python packages won't install on Windows or fail to do so without tons of errors. Python should be worked with on linux, it's just what i would recommend though.

 

I think sites like Codeacademy have the opposite effect of what they advertise. They only show the boring part of programming. Writing code IS boring and indeed not "that" hard. The fun part about programming is finding a way to systematically solve a problem or rather have a computer solve it for you.

Code training sites just spoon feed you the documentation that's already available and aren't practical if you actually want to code. There's already a tool for that called an API.

It's cool to learn the guitar by jamming some of your favorite songs but it doesn't teach you any music theory or how to compose music.

[Builder]

-snip-

Well unfortunately a lot of users here are quite resistant to using anything but Windows. I do indeed agree with you though.

 

I think code sites can work for some people, I got my start in Python on Codecademy. I generally prefer book learning though and I only used Codecademy because I didn't feel like buying a book.

 

I think your overall point is important, however it's highly abstracted from actual code and most people need to start at the code. I also believe your analogy is flawed because learning syntax is universal across the language, especially with Python where the syntax is very C-like.

[junker]

Well unfortunately a lot of users here are quite resistant to using anything but Windows. I do indeed agree with you though.

 

I think code sites can work for some people, I got my start in Python on Codecademy. I generally prefer book learning though and I only used Codecademy because I didn't feel like buying a book.

 

I think your overall point is important, however it's highly abstracted from actual code and most people need to start at the code. I also believe your analogy is flawed because learning syntax is universal across the language, especially with Python where the syntax is very C-like.

 

Good points, i'm sure codeacademy can be good for getting started, but it most definitly does not teach you how to code.

 

I really like this article on the subject of learning how to code, check it out: http://blog.codinghorror.com/please-dont-learn-to-code/

[Builder]

Good points, i'm sure codeacademy can be good for getting started, but it most definitly does not teach you how to code.

 

I really like this article on the subject of learning how to code, check it out: http://blog.codinghorror.com/please-dont-learn-to-code/

I've read it, though I've since sworn off Jeff Atwood for being a sexist idiot.

 

The people here are likely going to go into jobs as coders though, so I don't think it applies.

[junker]

I've read it, though I've since sworn off Jeff Atwood for being a sexist idiot.

 

The people here are likely going to go into jobs as coders though, so I don't think it applies.

"sexist idiot" Where did you get that from? I haven't read a ton of his stuff, but what i have read, i enjoyed.

[Builder]

"sexist idiot" Where did you get that from? I haven't read a ton of his stuff, but what i have read, i enjoyed.

He wrote a post about sexism in the industry a few months back, but he stole the title from a feminist tech writer without crediting her and ended up blaming all of the sexism on the idea that every single programmer in Silicon Valley has Asperger's Syndrome. Then in the comments section he blatantly eviscerated feminism as a whole and went on to keep criticizing anyone who showed up to tell him he was wrong.

 

Edit: Here it is. http://blog.codinghorror.com/what-can-men-do/

 

Ah. He appears to have since credited her.

[Midnight]

Javascript isn't the same thing?

Oh...

 

No. No, they are not.

[LukeTim]

Python where the syntax is very C-like.

 

It is?

[Enderman]

I highly recommend python. It is by far the best language to learn for beginners

[Builder]

It is?

Yes. The default bytecode compiler and interpreter are written in C, hence why the standardized implementation is CPython.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_(programming_language)

[vandomorph]

I'm about 65% through codeacademy and I can also vouch for it

[crocski]

The syntax of JavaScript is awful.

Those were my initial sentiments but I understand it more than I first did on the surface.

[Builder]

Those were my initial sentiments but I understand it more than I first did on the surface.

Well yes. I mean you can say the same about Perl but the end result will still be impossible to read in five months.

[LukeTim]

Yes. The default bytecode compiler and interpreter are written in C, hence why the standardized implementation is CPython.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_(programming_language)

 

Yes... but that makes the syntax like C? Perhaps my understanding of what programming syntax means is different/wrong...

[wolfsinner]

Yes... but that makes the syntax like C? Perhaps my understanding of what programming syntax means is different/wrong...

 

Your understanding is correct. Python's syntax is very different from C's.

[Builder]

Your understanding is correct. Python's syntax is very different from C's.

No, it is heavily C-inspired. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Python

 

"C provided some of Python's syntax, and the Bourne shell served as the model for an interpreter that becomes interactive when run without arguments."

[LukeTim]

No, it is heavily C-inspired. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Python

 

"C provided some of Python's syntax, and the Bourne shell served as the model for an interpreter that becomes interactive when run without arguments."

 

I wouldn't deny that the language has some similar elements to C, and even the syntax does... but I don't think it is correct to say the syntax is very C-like or heavily inspired by C.

[Builder]

I wouldn't deny that the language has some similar elements to C, and even the syntax does... but I don't think it is correct to say the syntax is very C-like or heavily inspired by C.

I would. Have you seen the syntax? When they say inspirations, they mean what the syntax was designed after. There is indeed some functional influence from Lisp and Haskell however the language was designed to have C-like syntax.

 

Python is the least C-like out of most of the other C-based scripting language, however it still takes a lot of syntactical influence from C.

[wolfsinner]

No, it is heavily C-inspired. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Python

 

"C provided some of Python's syntax, and the Bourne shell served as the model for an interpreter that becomes interactive when run without arguments."

 

So you're basically agreeing with us. The same link you provided us states that most of the syntax is inherited from ABC, which is the most correct affirmation.

Anyone who writes code in Python, and knows what syntax means, knows that Python is not C-like, and not even "heavily inspired" by C, it just borrows from it some syntax.

[Builder]

So you're basically agreeing with us. The same link you provided us states that most of the syntax is inherited from ABC, which is the most correct affirmation.

Anyone who writes code in Python, and knows what syntax means, knows that Python is not C-like, and not even "heavily inspired" by C, it just borrows from it some syntax.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_(programming_language)

 

"Many later languages have borrowed directly or indirectly from C, including D, Go, Rust, Java, JavaScript, Limbo, LPC, C#, Objective-C, Perl, PHP, Python, Verilog (hardware description language), and Unix's C shell. These languages have drawn many of their control structures and other basic features from C. Most of them (with Python being the most dramatic exception) are also very syntactically similar to C in general, and they tend to combine the recognizable expression and statement syntax of C with underlying type systems, data models, and semantics that can be radically different."

 

Again, I emphasize that Python is very C-like, not just in syntax but in language design overall. We can agree to disagree, but I'd say that this is pretty conclusive evidence.

[wolfsinner]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_(programming_language)

 

"Many later languages have borrowed directly or indirectly from C, including D, Go, Rust, Java, JavaScript, Limbo, LPC, C#, Objective-C, Perl, PHP, Python, Verilog (hardware description language), and Unix's C shell. These languages have drawn many of their control structures and other basic features from C. Most of them (with Python being the most dramatic exception) are also very syntactically similar to C in general, and they tend to combine the recognizable expression and statement syntax of C with underlying type systems, data models, and semantics that can be radically different."

 

Again, I emphasize that Python is very C-like, not just in syntax but in language design overall. We can agree to disagree, but I'd say that this is pretty conclusive evidence.

 

First of all, you clearly said in your original post that the syntax was very C-like, not the language design. Secondly, that quote clearly states that Python is the most dramatic exception, when talking about syntax similarity to C.

 

It's pretty obvious and granted that a lot of languages borrow from C when it comes to control structures, and imperative programming design. That is not what was being discussed, no matter how much you try to turn the conversation around.

[Builder]

First of all, you clearly said in your original post that the syntax was very C-like, not the language design. Secondly, that quote clearly states that Python is the most dramatic exception, when talking about syntax similarity to C.

 

It's pretty obvious and granted that a lot of languages borrow from C when it comes to control structures, and imperative programming design. That is not what was being discussed, no matter how much you try to turn the conversation around.

Even though it may be the most dramatic exception, it is still syntactically C-like. Something can be the most dramatic exception and still not be that different. I quote Wikipedia not because I do not use the languages myself but because it is the simplest way of proving my point.

 

Aside from functional programming, I would argue that most languages are very C-like in syntactic nature even if they are not C-based (which we have determined Python is) because C changed the way programming worked and we haven't really had a second revolution in language design since then. You could argue that OOP was that revolution however syntax wise not a lot changed.

 

Python may exchange square brackets and curly braces for indentation, however on all other levels the syntax is still very reminiscent of C. There are several StackOverflow threads on this topic, I suggest you read them.

 

I'm surprised you disagree with this, I'm not saying it's the scripting version of C, but honestly, most programmers agree that it is directly inspired syntactically and structurally by C.