Killing cows vs cats

[apoyusiken]

I imagine most of you will say they are virtually identical, that's what i thought so but recently i spotted an inconsistency in my belief system so please help me settle this. 

 

Please assume there is no objective morality. I think the best and pretty much only way to derive morality is via emotions. If something feels immoral i'd say it is. (Some of you might say then this is the problem but it doesnt really make sense and i dont wanna diverge away so please cooperate)

 

Problem is, then someone could just say some oxymoron hence the title, and i have no way of arguing against that. 

 

I'm kinda overwhelmed, it's not like it matters to me, it's just like a logic puzzle and im kinda sick i dont like it when i have inconsistencies in my mind.

 

You could argue about ladybugs vs cockroaches, but cows arent really less cute than cats.

[Caroline]

Cows have more meat than cats, why is this even a question??

[Doobeedoo]

Cats are most cute, end of story.

Also just comparing house hold small pet to huge animals people hunted or kept for food.

[Millios]

13 hours ago, apoyusiken said:

Please assume there is no objective morality. I think the best and pretty much only way to derive morality is via emotions. If something feels immoral i'd say it is. (Some of you might say then this is the problem but it doesnt really make sense and i dont wanna diverge away so please cooperate)

Objectively a wrong and juvenile statement, but I don't feel like walking you through morals and ethics 101 again like several people, me included, have already done so I digress

13 hours ago, apoyusiken said:

I imagine most of you will say they are virtually identical, that's what i thought so but recently i spotted an inconsistency in my belief system so please help me settle this. 

 

Problem is, then someone could just say some oxymoron hence the title, and i have no way of arguing against that. 

 

I'm kinda overwhelmed, it's not like it matters to me, it's just like a logic puzzle and im kinda sick i dont like it when i have inconsistencies in my mind.

 

You could argue about ladybugs vs cockroaches, but cows arent really less cute than cats.

I'll use utilitarianism so I can give you the most objective POV. Killing a cat leads to next to no gain if any at all. Killing a cow can and does lead to a relatively big food source.

Leads to good=good.

 

There is also context. Nobody kills cats for any reason that wouldn't make them a psychopath, sociopath or generally deranged and evil. Humans have been killing farm animals for literal millennia because food=yummy and needed. 

[Why_Me]

37 minutes ago, Millios said:

There is also context. Nobody kills cats for any reason that wouldn't make them a psychopath, sociopath or generally deranged and evil. Humans have been killing farm animals for literal millennia because food=yummy and needed. 

We would thin out the barn cat population every few years when I was growing up and we weren't the only farm that did that.

[Millios]

5 minutes ago, Why_Me said:

We would thin out the barn cat population every few years when I was growing up and we weren't the only farm that did that.

May I ask the reason?
Over here they either give them away or neuter a fair few of them so they are more manageable.

I suppose some instances can justify the killing. Applicable to humans too, such as self-defense. But I'd call it an exception and not the rule like the example I gave here,

Well unless you did it with glee and willingness which I seriously doubt for obvious reasons.

[Why_Me]

7 minutes ago, Millios said:

May I ask the reason?
Over here they either give them away or neuter a fair few of them so they are more manageable.

I suppose some instances can justify the killing. Applicable to humans too, such as self-defense. But I'd call it an exception and not the rule like the example I gave here,

Well unless you did it with glee and willingness which I seriously doubt for obvious reasons.

The barn cat population would explode and after awhile they would require thinning out. Inbred feral cats that were wild to the point that you didn't dare attempt to touch one without leather welding gloves unless you wanted bloody hands and forearms.

[TetraSky]

Cows provide various foods. From meat to cheese made with their milk. You wouldn't need to kill the cow if all you needed was milk.

Cats on the other hand, would provide nothing except for their meat. But as it is, cats are food for coyotes and various other predators out there. That's it. We don't eat cats in most cultures and they are so small they wouldn't really keep you well fed. Then again, they do reproduce much quicker than cows with much less resources. So maybe we should eat them.

But just like people have a weird aversion to horse meat, cat meat wouldn't pass in many places until the pet stigma associated with them is taken away. Which it likely won't.

[Millios]

Just now, Why_Me said:

The barn cat population would explode and after awhile they would require thinning out. Inbred feral cats that were wild to the point that you didn't dare attempt to touch one without leather welding gloves unless you wanted bloody hands and forearms.

So, if I understand your case correctly, closed (or more closed than most) community and swallow gene pool so thinning them out was a necessary evil.

I'd still call it an exception to what I said but if you want to call it me standing corrected feel free to do so.

[Why_Me]

Just now, Millios said:

So, if I understand your case correctly, closed (or more closed than most) community and swallow gene pool so thinning them out was a necessary evil.

I'd still call it an exception to what I said but if you want to call it me standing corrected feel free to do so.

Not many people raised on farms these days so yes it's an exception to the rule.

[Blue4130]

9 hours ago, Millios said:

There is also context. Nobody kills cats for any reason that wouldn't make them a psychopath, sociopath or generally deranged and evil. Humans have been killing farm animals for literal millennia because food=yummy and needed. 

Cats are still sold/killed/cooked as a food source in parts of China. The people who offered it to me were not "psychopath, sociopath or generally deranged and evil".

 

Your beliefs do not represent everyone in the world.

[Biohazard777]

Western societies 

[Millios]

5 hours ago, Blue4130 said:

Cats are still sold/killed/cooked as a food source in parts of China. The people who offered it to me were not "psychopath, sociopath or generally deranged and evil".

 

Your beliefs do not represent everyone in the world.

That is in reference to 2 very small regions in china where it is practiced almost exclusively by older folks while the younger people don't do it nearly at all (some depending do depending on how the grew up and how close to the people who practiced it but that is another topic). On the contrary almost everyone is fighting back against it and they want to end it and the illegal meat trades for it.

 

You are commiting the appeal to tradition fallacy here.

[Blue4130]

14 minutes ago, Millios said:

That is in reference to 2 very small regions in china where it is practiced almost exclusively by older folks while the younger people don't do it nearly at all (some depending do depending on how the grew up and how close to the people who practiced it but that is another topic). On the contrary almost everyone is fighting back against it and they want to end it and the illegal meat trades for it.

 

You are commiting the appeal to tradition fallacy here.

Does anything you said invalidate that they are NOT psychopath, sociopath or generally deranged and evil? No. The people killing, cooking and serving/selling are not psychopath, sociopath or generally deranged and evil.

 

And 2 very small regions is debatable. By size, sure, by population, that is another story. 

[Millios]

3 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

Does anything you said invalidate that they are NOT psychopath, sociopath or generally deranged and evil? No. The people killing, cooking and serving/selling are not psychopath, sociopath or generally deranged and evil.

Remains detestable by even other people in their country. I also cannot speak to their character as I have not met them personally and  while I can quite a few problematic stuff done by people in these regions (such as the Guangdong massacre), much like I don't paint the region in that brush, I can't paint them all because I don't know what's going on behind closed doors and neither do you.

The fact they got the "it's not bad" externalized doesn't make it correct.

It's an appeal to tradition because it's like excusing misogyny because everyone ones doing at the time a Grandparent was growing up (I'm not comparing the two in severity because cat eating is not nearly as serious as systematic oppression of women, I'm using it as an example of old≠not bad). Being normal in the past does not make it not bad

10 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

And 2 very small regions is debatable. By size, sure, by population, that is another story. 

In both they are fairly big by global standards I believe (Guangdong being I believe in the top 5 most populated large regions of China).

The ratio is just VERY skewed to villages with less outside contact because many cities have an outright ban on them such as Shenzhen and Zhuhai or actively raiding providers like what happens in Hong Kong.

 

All in all it's a multifaceted issue there but even the Chinese seem to detest these practices.

[Blue4130]

2 minutes ago, Millios said:

 I don't know what's going on behind closed doors and neither do you.

Actually you are wrong. I am married to a Guangdong (small) city woman and have been in China for over 15 years. Cat has been on the family table at more than one family dinner. I assure you that the person who prepared the dish is well adjusted and not psychotic.

 

The only real thing that I take offence to us you saying that they are "psychopath, sociopath or generally deranged and evil". They most certainly ARE NOT. You are just being ignorant. 

[Caroline]

6 hours ago, Blue4130 said:

Your beliefs do not represent everyone in the world.

Yea a while ago I told someone from abroad in my country it's perfectly normal to eat animals other than cows, chicken or pigs. Donkey meat is almost a staple at this point, it started out as a cheaper alternative to beef and became traditional, there's also capybara, snake, rabbit, goat, sheep, even pigeons.

 

Dog isn't mainstream but it's also not widespread, it's mainly eaten by natives or older people, I didn't try it but I guess it'd taste like... meat? it's added to stews and dumplings, same with pigeon except it's typically grilled, it's a "poor man's food", tastes a bit like chicken, only a somewhat bitter, soy sauce is added to it.

 

I like capybara, my favourite is preparing it like a Schnitzel, it's a really lean and soft meat, same with rabbit, did you know rabbit is one of the leanest and most proteic types of meat? the disadvantage is there's more waste due to the hide, you need several for a whole dinner for multiple people.

 

Donkey is sweet-ish and must be well done if you eat it as a steak, in my experience it's better for things like burgers or fillings after mincing it.

 

I tried snake once and it was fine, it looked like sushi, matter of fact it's called "latin sushi" due to how it looks. Only regular water snakes are sold, so no weird poisonous desert ones.

 

It's not taboo or weird to eat those, "real" beef, pork and saltwater fish (tuna) are extremely expensive for our purchasing power, beef is the kind of thing you'd cook for New Year's Eve dinner, fish for Easter, they're reserved for red letter days unless you're rich or a foreigner earning in USD.

 

I'm probably a monster for eating "cute" capybaras and bunnies in someone's eyes, but it's that or starving, kids.

[Millios]

4 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Yea a while ago I told someone from abroad in my country it's perfectly normal to eat animals other than cows, chicken or pigs. Donkey meat is almost a staple at this point, it started out as a cheaper alternative to beef and became traditional, there's also capybara, snake, rabbit, goat, sheep, even pigeons.

 

Dog isn't mainstream but it's also not widespread, it's mainly eaten by natives or older people, I didn't try it but I guess it'd taste like... meat? it's added to stews and dumplings, same with pigeon except it's typically grilled, it's a "poor man's food", tastes a bit like chicken, only a somewhat bitter, soy sauce is added to it.

 

I like capybara, my favourite is preparing it like a Schnitzel, it's a really lean and soft meat, same with rabbit, did you know rabbit is one of the leanest and most proteic types of meat? the disadvantage is there's more waste due to the hide, you need several for a whole dinner for multiple people.

 

Donkey is sweet-ish and must be well done if you eat it as a steak, in my experience it's better for things like burgers or fillings after mincing it.

 

I tried snake once and it was fine, it looked like sushi, matter of fact it's called "latin sushi" due to how it looks. Only regular water snakes are sold, so no weird poisonous desert ones.

 

It's not taboo or weird to eat those, "real" beef, pork and saltwater fish (tuna) are extremely expensive for our purchasing power, beef is the kind of thing you'd cook for New Year's Eve dinner, fish for Easter, they're reserved for red letter days unless you're rich or a foreigner earning in USD.

 

I'm probably a monster for eating "cute" capybaras and bunnies in someone's eyes, but it's that or starving, kids.

I mean when it's do or die that's another matter.

Even those who were stuck in mountains were forced to eat their dead friends or they'd die which is just self-preservation.

[Blue4130]

8 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Yea a while ago I told someone from abroad in my country it's perfectly normal to eat animals other than cows, chicken or pigs. Donkey meat is almost a staple at this point, it started out as a cheaper alternative to beef and became traditional, there's also capybara, snake, rabbit, goat, sheep, even pigeons.

 

Dog isn't mainstream but it's also not widespread, it's mainly eaten by natives or older people, I didn't try it but I guess it'd taste like... meat? it's added to stews and dumplings, same with pigeon except it's typically grilled, it's a "poor man's food", tastes a bit like chicken, only a somewhat bitter, soy sauce is added to it.

 

I like capybara, my favourite is preparing it like a Schnitzel, it's a really lean and soft meat, same with rabbit, did you know rabbit is one of the leanest and most proteic types of meat? the disadvantage is there's more waste due to the hide, you need several for a whole dinner for multiple people.

 

Donkey is sweet-ish and must be well done if you eat it as a steak, in my experience it's better for things like burgers or fillings after mincing it.

 

I tried snake once and it was fine, it looked like sushi, matter of fact it's called "latin sushi" due to how it looks. Only regular water snakes are sold, so no weird poisonous desert ones.

 

It's not taboo or weird to eat those, "real" beef, pork and saltwater fish (tuna) are extremely expensive for our purchasing power, beef is the kind of thing you'd cook for New Year's Eve dinner, fish for Easter, they're reserved for red letter days unless you're rich or a foreigner earning in USD.

 

I'm probably a monster for eating "cute" capybaras and bunnies in someone's eyes, but it's that or starving, kids.

Donkey is one of my favorite things in Northern china. There are hundreds of donkey sandwich shops in Beijing that I ate at frequently when I lived there.

 

I've eaten snake many times. Silkworms, etc. The problem is westerners generally have closed minds when it comes to food. They don't want things other than cow/chicken/pig/fish and they really don't want to see where it comes from.

[Millios]

2 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

I've eaten snake many times. Silkworms, etc.

Other stuff said aside, how were those? Silkworms especially because they seem intriguing to try and also are there any specific ways to eat them?
I've tried crickets and grasshoppers, but those were the grilled and spiced ones they sell globally

[Blue4130]

10 minutes ago, Millios said:

Other stuff said aside, how were those? Silkworms especially because they seem intriguing to try and also are there any specific ways to eat them?
I've tried crickets and grasshoppers, but those were the grilled and spiced ones they sell globally

Silkworms are fantastic. I eat them like shishkabob (bbq on a stick) they have a hazelnut sort of taste. The center is the consistency of warm peanut butter, the outside is crunchy. The consistency is what most people can't handle. They sort of explode in the mouth when eaten.

[wanderingfool2]

33 minutes ago, Millios said:

The fact they got the "it's not bad" externalized doesn't make it correct.

It's an appeal to tradition because it's like excusing misogyny because everyone ones doing at the time a Grandparent was growing up (I'm not comparing the two in severity because cat eating is not nearly as serious as systematic oppression of women, I'm using it as an example of old≠not bad). Being normal in the past does not make it not bad

You are imposing values onto people based on a belief system of good/bad without justification.  Honestly you are calling people psychopaths etc, but what you are doing here and villianizing a cultural/practical aspect to me is a lot more disgusting than anything.

 

Would I eat cat/dog?  No, but it's not "bad" as you keep wanting to imply.  Honestly I don't judge people who do eat them.  Cows are sacred to some cultures.

 

If you think eating a cat is bad and want to call people psychopaths for doing it you better have some ACTUAL not asinine reasoning that isn't just some synthetic morality,  Just because you think it's bad, and people say it's bad doesn't make it bad...it just makes it culturally unacceptable.  So justify your reasoning.

 

The fact is our reliance on eating pork is actually a rather large risk as a whole (in the ability for bird related viruses to find pathways into becoming human related viruses).  So there would be rational of people who legitimately have an issue with lets say pork.

 

I mean look at foie gras...literally many manufacturers shove tubs down ducks throats and force feed them.  Insanely unethical, and yet people get stuck up on cats/dogs simply because in western culture they are pets.

 

On 5/30/2026 at 4:19 PM, apoyusiken said:

You could argue about ladybugs vs cockroaches, but cows arent really less cute than cats.

I mean it's complex cultural norms that defines the differences etc.

 

ladybugs generally are though as cute, vs cockroaches are thought as disgusting.

 

Cows definitely aren't as cute as cats to most people.  Generally the cultural aspect of cats, dogs, cows etc come from their original purposes.  Cows were the work-horses which lots of meat that could be used to feed a family.  Cats served as mice catchers, dogs were useful.  Cats and dogs were also viewed as more intelligent as cows.

 

The higher perceived intelligence (different from actual intelligence) the less likely an animal would be thought as as food.

 

So why cows?  Lots of reasons built over hundreds on hundreds of years.  Lobster was once thought as peasants food, and yet now it's flipped.

 

Guinepigs originally were farmed animals for food, yet have now become pets.

 

In many places rabbit/horse are still eaten, but there are many who would scoff at it.

[Millios]

1 minute ago, wanderingfool2 said:

I mean look at foie gras...literally many manufacturers shove tubs down ducks throats and force feed them.  Insanely unethical, and yet people get stuck up on cats/dogs simply because in western culture they are pets.

Bad example as I also find that detestable and many also consider it bad practice. Caviar too. But I get what you are getting at all in all.

As bad as my phrasing was, and maybe my point, I personally draw the line at cats and dogs but the rest (unless endangered) I'd at least try.

4 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

Silkworms are fantastic. I eat them like shishkabob (bbq on a stick) they have a hazelnut sort of taste. The center is the consistency of warm peanut butter, the outside is crunchy. The consistency is what most people can't handle. They sort of explode in the mouth when eaten.

Hmm, I suppose if, or rather when, I go to China I'll have a try then.

Only consistency I despise is grainy because it feels like eating sand but other than that nothing I dislike that much in that regard so I'll at least give it a go.

Other than those are there any other weird dish you'd consider a must?

Over here we have stuff like rabbit stews that I consider great but cannot recommend unless you are ok with weirder meats. Or large intestines skewered and grilled so anything like that I am ok with to say the least

[Blue4130]

10 minutes ago, Millios said:

Other than those are there any other weird dish you'd consider a must?

 

Nothing too crazy. Like I said, the donkey sandwiches are amazing. Thousand year eggs are great. Tripe soup is great. Stay away from grilled scorpion, that is a tourist trap thing. Nobody really eats that other than to say they did. 

[05032-Mendicant-Bias]

On 5/31/2026 at 1:19 AM, apoyusiken said:

I imagine most of you will say they are virtually identical

The reason we domesticated cats is because humans and cats are synergic:

• Cats are support stealth assassins, they eat pests that we cannot eat. If you wonder why cats bring you dead pests, that's why. It's proving they are working.
• Cats need a base to rest when they are not hunting, human bases are perfect for that.

We do not eat cats because cats are carnivores. Both inefficient and dangerous to eat. While they do eat a source of food that doesn't compete with ours, toxins accumulate up the food chains, and cats are pretty far up. Some cultures do eat them, and in hard time they are a viable source, but it's not a great strat.

 

We domesticated and eat herbivores because they are machines turn grass (we cannot eat) into meat, milk and eggs, and fur and hide. Plus they provide labour in pre industrial societies. It's a pro strat to domesticate and eat large herbivors.

 

We domesticated dogs because they are good bois. They are pure generalist support builds that can spec into many tasks.