AI trading software??

[Vkull]

I'm asking here because I trust y'all more than Reddit or those shady Google found review pages.

 

What do y'all think about AI stock trading software? Could you recommend one? I'm in the middle of doing my research and I already immediately recognized alarming patterns. Google does not give recommendations to AI auto traders and instead directs you to standard apps and services. Duck duck go gives links to review pages that suspiciously send you to apps that very unclearly describe what they do. As in they hide themselves under a million buzz words.

 

From what I can tell, using AI to auto trade stocks is a great idea. It can monitor the market and make purchasing and selling decisions without human oversight. So why has no one built one yet, or why do all the ones that claim to work seem so sketchy?

[whispous]

12 minutes ago, Vkull said:

What do y'all think about AI stock trading software? Could you recommend one?

If you try to use "someone's AI trading service" you're dumber than a bag of rocks. If it's so good, why would they sell it? They'd use it themselves.

 

You're not going to find anything but scams if you're looking for "software that I buy, it trades for me, and I make a profit for doing nothing". Think for just a few seconds about this.

[Dr. Will0hlep]

Mathematician established long ago that, because share prices move more or less randomly, it is impossible to be good or bad at picking shares.

 

AI is not a exception to this rule.

Any AI promising to help with trading is a scam.

 

If you want to invest in stocks and shares:

don't manage it yourself, big banks and hedge funds have advantages, like faster internet and armies of analysts, that you just can't compete with.

Also, understand that stocks and shares will not make you rich quick.

[Vkull]

5 minutes ago, whispous said:

If you try to use "someone's AI trading service" you're dumber than a bag of rocks. If it's so good, why would they sell it? They'd use it themselves.

 

You're not going to find anything but scams if you're looking for "software that I buy, it trades for me, and I make a profit for doing nothing". Think for just a few seconds about this.

No that's exactly it. At surface level there appears to be nothing but scam services. But surely the technology exists and surely someone out there recognizes it's safer to monetize the service rather than risking their own money? 

 

I recognize that it's still a gamble, like purchasing and selling any stocks, it's always a gamble. But AI simply is able to analyze the data better than I or any human ever could. I think it may be worth investing in and I want to try it lol .

[porina]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Will0hlep said:

Mathematician established long ago that, because share prices move more or less randomly, it is impossible to be good or bad at picking shares.

Share prices alone are not the only potential data input. ~If~ you can usefully combine data outside of that, it can help. 

 

Link below gives an overview of high frequency trading, a form of very short timescale automated electronic trading. Presuming they make money out of it, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-frequency_trading

 

Competing at that level is probably out of the question for an individual. The alternative question then would be, could you operate on a longer timescale and get consistent results? Good luck!

[Vkull]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Will0hlep said:

Mathematician established long ago that, because share prices move more or less randomly, it is impossible to be good or bad at picking shares.

 

AI is not a exception to this rule.

Any AI promising to help with trading is a scam.

 

If you want the best chance of making money from stocks and shares:

don't manage it yourself, big banks and hedge funds have advantages, like faster internet and armies of analysts, that you just can't compete with.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I like chasing the high risk high rewards. I lose more than I make, I won't preach that my method isn't a massive gamble. But if I can hit the payoff then I'm laughing.

[Vkull]

4 minutes ago, porina said:

Share prices alone are not the only potential data input. ~If~ you can usefully combine data outside of that, it can help. 

 

Link below gives an overview of high frequency trading, a form of very short timescale automated electronic trading. Presuming they make money out of it, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-frequency_trading

 

Competing at that level is probably out of the question for an individual. The alternative question then would be, could you operate on a longer timescale and get consistent results? Good luck!

Yeah, an hft auto trader is what I'm trying to find. But when researching them, you have to sift through a sea of scams

[Avocado Diaboli]

17 minutes ago, Vkull said:

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I like chasing the high risk high rewards. I lose more than I make, I won't preach that my method isn't a massive gamble. But if I can hit the payoff then I'm laughing.

Sounds like you have a gambling addiction.

 

20 minutes ago, Vkull said:

But surely the technology exists and surely someone out there recognizes it's safer to monetize the service rather than risking their own money? 

Yes, they're called banks. You will never buy a software that does this. You will always pay someone else who has developed this software for the privilege of letting them use your money to multiply it while they get to securely profit from the fees you'll have to pay them on any profits your money generates while they will never be paying you anything for the losses.

[podkall]

57 minutes ago, Vkull said:

From what I can tell, using AI to auto trade stocks is a great idea. It can monitor the market and make purchasing and selling decisions without human oversight. So why has no one built one yet, or why do all the ones that claim to work seem so sketchy?

What makes you think AI won't do mistakes?

 

[porina]

23 minutes ago, Vkull said:

Yeah, an hft auto trader is what I'm trying to find. But when researching them, you have to sift through a sea of scams

Probably because it doesn't exist for general sale. The people who do it get low latency connections to the trading system, then get the fastest hardware they can to run it. That's why I suggested you probably need to look at trading in a different way to find another way in.

 

1 hour ago, Vkull said:

So why has no one built one yet, or why do all the ones that claim to work seem so sketchy?

If software existed to consistently return a gain, whoever has it would be using it themselves. The more people that have it or similar, the more competition, and the less they potentially get back. For it to be worth "selling", it would have to have enough known flaws or risks associated with it to make it the better option. In which case, it probably wouldn't be worth buying.

 

I wonder if this is something that could be tried as a side project for anyone wishing to learn machine learning. I'm sure you can find historic data to train the AI on, but also give it external sources to supplement that. It can be tested on data it wasn't trained on to see how well it works.

[whispous]

46 minutes ago, Vkull said:

No that's exactly it. At surface level there appears to be nothing but scam services. But surely the technology exists and surely someone out there recognizes it's safer to monetize the service rather than risking their own money? 

 

I recognize that it's still a gamble, like purchasing and selling any stocks, it's always a gamble. But AI simply is able to analyze the data better than I or any human ever could. I think it may be worth investing in and I want to try it lol .

 

[Vkull]

24 minutes ago, Avocado Diaboli said:

Sounds like you have a gambling addiction.

 

Yes, they're called banks. You will never buy a software that does this. You will always pay someone else who has developed this software for the privilege of letting them use your money to multiply it while they get to securely profit from the fees you'll have to pay them on any profits your money generates while they will never be paying you anything for the losses.

Banks don't auto trade on your behalf. At least, none of the ones I'm familiar with. 

 

Is there something wrong with paying someone that's developed the software? Is there something wrong with giving them the privilege of safely securing their profit fees while I take all the risks? I'm not a program developer. If I was, I'd build the software myself instead of looking for someone else's project.

[Vkull]

14 minutes ago, podkall said:

What makes you think AI won't do mistakes?

 

AI makes lots of mistakes? What makes you think I think AI is perfect? I'm just saying, looking at hard data, an AI can do it better than a human can. That's a fact. They can analyze and make guesses about as good if not better and certainly quicker than a human can. Why wouldn't I gamble and apply that to stock trading? I'm certainly not the first person to come up with the idea, pop culture has been referencing AI auto traders since the early days of AI.

[Vkull]

15 minutes ago, porina said:

Probably because it doesn't exist for general sale. The people who do it get low latency connections to the trading system, then get the fastest hardware they can to run it. That's why I suggested you probably need to look at trading in a different way to find another way in.

 

If software existed to consistently return a gain, whoever has it would be using it themselves. The more people that have it or similar, the more competition, and the less they potentially get back. For it to be worth "selling", it would have to have enough known flaws or risks associated with it to make it the better option. In which case, it probably wouldn't be worth buying.

 

I wonder if this is something that could be tried as a side project for anyone wishing to learn machine learning. I'm sure you can find historic data to train the AI on, but also give it external sources to supplement that. It can be tested on data it wasn't trained on to see how well it works.

Thank you for the analytical response.

 

I agree anything worthwhile is probably gate kept behind personal servers. I think you're right to assume I'll only realistically find a flawed, under developed, under resourced service. But to even get that far, to me at least, scratches the itch and perhaps one day I'll understand it enough to build my own. But I have to start somewhere.

[thrasher_565]

some youtuber did this made a program to trade and it was working... but its probably illegal. it works like any random ai dose gets a cooks if its get more money kinda deal... it was set for a small amount like $50 or something but made about $200 before being shut down...

 

you have to no what to put it in thow...or it just a guess and the starting fees

[Vkull]

6 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

some youtuber did this made a program to trade and it was working... but its probably illegal. it works like any random ai dose gets a cooks if its get more money kinda deal... it was set for a small amount like $50 or something but made about $200 before being shut down...

 

you have to no what to put it in thow...or it just a guess and the starting fees

You got a link to the video or remember who the YouTuber was? YouTube is giving me a similar sea of scam results lol . 

 

As far as I can tell, it's not illegal to use an AI auto trader. But I wouldn't be surprised if it does become illegal in the future. I also wouldn't be surprised if all the major 1 percent rich guys are currently using and gatekeeping the technology and that's why it's not currently illegal. But that's tinfoil hat stuff and I'm trying to not get into that haha.

[thrasher_565]

11 minutes ago, Vkull said:

You got a link to the video or remember who the YouTuber was? YouTube is giving me a similar sea of scam results lol . 

 

As far as I can tell, it's not illegal to use an AI auto trader. But I wouldn't be surprised if it does become illegal in the future. I also wouldn't be surprised if all the major 1 percent rich guys are currently using and gatekeeping the technology and that's why it's not currently illegal. But that's tinfoil hat stuff and I'm trying to not get into that haha.

no i don't remember who he was. the system is rigged and all trade together. media i used to push stocks has been for years. they push scams too like thows nft... but anyway.

 

he coded the program him self so... and shut it down a few days later.

[Vkull]

4 hours ago, thrasher_565 said:

no i don't remember who he was. the system is rigged and all trade together. media i used to push stocks has been for years. they push scams too like thows nft... but anyway.

 

he coded the program him self so... and shut it down a few days later.

I wonder why he'd shut it down . Lost money I guess? It's plausible he found it unprofitable 

[thrasher_565]

6 minutes ago, Vkull said:

I wonder why he'd shut it down . Lost money I guess? It's plausible he found it unprofitable 

i think it was a "fun" project and  to make a yt video and maybe they dont need the money or felt like it was a gray area and not worth there repataion or even jail over it... but just guess know one will really know. i think you need your real id to trade right? i think he was not expecting it to work or work so fast...

chocked up to be a mistake. 

 

do people do it probably. it jsut like gaming now there ways to get auto aim bots with out beaing detected and there probably ways to also do it with trading. now adays they sell you the cheat tool... hears a controller you can program keystrokes in it and replay it...or that monitor that that show some things in the game you dont normally get...

 

you could say use an arduino uno to push keys on the keyboard and mouse from a remote and they wont be table to tell if your human or bots but there's meda data that might get you caught. say you made a trade well your at the storw buying a coke and they had a way to check it look kinda odd right. you have to build it to look and feel like a human would. not make 1 second trades and so on you kinda get it. 

 

if you could make like $200 aday away from your pc then well it could be damaging... 

 

 

 

 

 

[porina]

5 hours ago, thrasher_565 said:

i think it was a "fun" project and  to make a yt video and maybe they dont need the money or felt like it was a gray area and not worth there repataion or even jail over it... but just guess know one will really know. i think you need your real id to trade right? i think he was not expecting it to work or work so fast...

chocked up to be a mistake. 

You will need a trading account somewhere to get access to the trading system, and yes they will want to make sure you are who you are e.g. anti money laundering regulations. Think of similar requirements to having a regular bank account.

 

There's nothing illegal as such trading through such means, assuming you properly report for tax as needed and aren't doing traditional illegal things like insider trading for example. There may be constraints or behaviour requirements for using it, so you still need to comply with those. 

 

If it really worked reliably within the rules there's no reason to stop. So either it wasn't in the rules. Just don't do it! Or, it didn't really work. Remember these videos can be selective in what they present. They could pick a short bit where it looks like it is working, and not show when it doesn't. It can be tested using real data without making the actual trades.

[Dr. Will0hlep]

15 hours ago, porina said:

Share prices alone are not the only potential data input. ~If~ you can usefully combine data outside of that, it can help. 

I would suggest you read up on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_walk_hypothesis

 

A bit of knowledge can help, but the more widely spread that knowledge is the less useful it is. Which is exactly why HFT exists:

 

15 hours ago, porina said:

Link below gives an overview of high frequency trading, a form of very short timescale automated electronic trading. Presuming they make money out of it, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-frequency_trading

The trick to HFT is reacting before others receive information.

 

It does not contain a strategy for helping you select shares better, it only helps you avoid losses by giving you a head start when you need to sell.

 

In fact this is one of the main reasons it is better to have a big banks and hedge funds manage your money. They can use HFT strategies because they have faster internet that you just can't compete with.

[Dr. Will0hlep]

15 hours ago, Vkull said:

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I like chasing the high risk high rewards. I lose more than I make, I won't preach that my method isn't a massive gamble. But if I can hit the payoff then I'm laughing.

Then I recommend you play the lottery.

[podkall]

19 hours ago, Vkull said:

I'm just saying, looking at hard data, an AI can do it better than a human can.

humans can fail, while looking at hard data, I don't know what your point is

 

19 hours ago, Vkull said:

That's a fact. They can analyze and make guesses about as good if not better and certainly quicker than a human can.

Got any source for that information?

 

19 hours ago, Vkull said:

Why wouldn't I gamble and apply that to stock trading?

Because you just called it gambling.

 

19 hours ago, Vkull said:

I'm certainly not the first person to come up with the idea, pop culture has been referencing AI auto traders since the early days of AI.

There's probably range where AI can trade or help trade, either requires assistence or lot of money.

 

Have you ever tried looking at videos where people let Gemini or ChatGPT try trading?