Liquid thermal paste

[JakubR88]

Is liquid thermal "paste" worth the risk? I was looking at the thermal grizzly stuff for my 7 7800x3D but was wondering if it was even worth a go with it?

[Dedayog]

3 minutes ago, JakubR88 said:

Is liquid thermal "paste" worth the risk? I was looking at the thermal grizzly stuff for my 7 7800x3D but was wondering if it was even worth a go with it?

Liquid metal is for direct die, aka delidded processors or bare chips like in a GPU.

 

Use Kryonaut if you want a Thermal Grizzly product for regular CPU paste.

[JakubR88]

1 minute ago, Dedayog said:

Liquid metal is for direct die, aka delidded processors or bare chips like in a GPU.

 

Use Kryonaut if you want a Thermal Grizzly product for regular CPU paste.

oh right ive seen loads of people use it for non de lidded cpus so i was jw.

[JakubR88]

3 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

Liquid metal is for direct die, aka delidded processors or bare chips like in a GPU.

 

Use Kryonaut if you want a Thermal Grizzly product for regular CPU paste.

what would be the best thermal paste then?

[LeapFrogMasterRace]

To clarify you really should not use it on top of the IHS (the part of the cooler you see) because it will corrode your cooler especially if it is exposed copper. If you want to delid your CPU and apply it to the direct die that is fine but still not worth it for the average user. It is best to just get a decent cooler, decent paste and leave it at that. 

 

My favorite paste are Artic Silver MX4 and Gelid GC Extreme. 

[JakubR88]

7 minutes ago, LeapFrogMasterRace said:

To clarify you really should not use it on top of the IHS (the part of the cooler you see) because it will corrode your cooler especially if it is exposed copper. If you want to delid your CPU and apply it to the direct die that is fine but still not worth it for the average user. It is best to just get a decent cooler, decent paste and leave it at that. 

 

My favorite paste are Artic Silver MX4 and Gelid GC Extreme. 

fair enough what about krynought 

[LeapFrogMasterRace]

1 minute ago, JakubR88 said:

fair enough what about krynought 

I hear it dries up rather quickly but if you don't mind possibly having to repasted more often go for it

[RONOTHAN##]

25 minutes ago, JakubR88 said:

oh right ive seen loads of people use it for non de lidded cpus so i was jw.

It's not that common, since it's only really the 7950X that can benefit from it at all without a delid. 

 

Besides, you're using a 7800X3D, that chip can be cooled by the cheapest cooler you can find with no name thermal paste. The limits AMD put in place on that chip are so aggressive that it almost never hits temp limits and thus cooling should be just about your least concern. Just use whatever comes with your CPU cooler, or if you're reusing a cooler and need new paste anyway, some cheap but decent stuff like Arctic MX-4 or MX-6, no need to go for LM here

[BiotechBen]

I've used Corsair XTM50 with good success.

[JakubR88]

7 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

It's not that common, since it's only really the 7950X that can benefit from it at all without a delid. 

 

Besides, you're using a 7800X3D, that chip can be cooled by the cheapest cooler you can find with no name thermal paste. The limits AMD put in place on that chip are so aggressive that it almost never hits temp limits and thus cooling should be just about your least concern. Just use whatever comes with your CPU cooler, or if you're reusing a cooler and need new paste anyway, some cheap but decent stuff like Arctic MX-4 or MX-6, no need to go for LM here

cool cool thanks, just wanted the lowest temps possible so i could run it super quiet

[RONOTHAN##]

Just now, JakubR88 said:

cool cool thanks, just wanted the lowest temps possible so i could run it super quiet

Bigger/better coolers don't really cool that chip all that much better, again its more limited by the power limits than anything, and since it maxes out at ~80W, pretty much any decent cooler can shrug that off and not ramp the fan up too high. You'll have more success getting a quiet system by adjusting fan curves than the cooler. 

 

Besides, better thermal paste gives 2-3C improvements at best, usually closer to 0-1C. This really isn't an area where spending extra will really get you anything. 

[JakubR88]

6 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Bigger/better coolers don't really cool that chip all that much better, again its more limited by the power limits than anything, and since it maxes out at ~80W, pretty much any decent cooler can shrug that off and not ramp the fan up too high. You'll have more success getting a quiet system by adjusting fan curves than the cooler. 

 

Besides, better thermal paste gives 2-3C improvements at best, usually closer to 0-1C. This really isn't an area where spending extra will really get you anything. 

yeah ive gone for the lian li uni v2s which i have found super quiet.

[porina]

35 minutes ago, JakubR88 said:

fair enough what about krynought 

Kryonaut was one of the top pastes when it was released, and probably still is. I've used it on many systems and it is a solid performer.

 

30 minutes ago, LeapFrogMasterRace said:

I hear it dries up rather quickly but if you don't mind possibly having to repasted more often go for it

Who says that? Used it in many systems and it remains long term stable. I've never noticed any thermal change due to the paste. Never had a problem in long term with any big name pastes I've used, also including MX-2, MX-4, NT-H1 and more.

 

42 minutes ago, LeapFrogMasterRace said:

My favorite paste are Artic Silver MX4 and Gelid GC Extreme. 

MX-4 is made by Arctic Cooling, now renamed ARCTIC. Arctic Silver is a different company and product. Arctic Silver was popular in the distant past but I don't think they've done anything recent.

[PDifolco]

57 minutes ago, JakubR88 said:

fair enough what about krynought 

If you wanna spend  some money on this, get a Kryosheet sheet, it's clean and efficient

[JakubR88]

27 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

If you wanna spend  some money on this, get a Kryosheet sheet, it's clean and efficient

is it better performace than the none sheet

[PDifolco]

Just now, JakubR88 said:

is it better performace than the none sheet

From what I've read it's as good as the best pastes, has 0 "even application" issue and don't wear out

[LeapFrogMasterRace]

1 hour ago, porina said:

MX-4 is made by Arctic Cooling, now renamed ARCTIC. Arctic Silver is a different company and product. Arctic Silver was popular in the distant past but I don't think they've done anything recent.

Ah that's correct got the names mixed up. I still order thermal pads from them occasionaly but not paste.

1 hour ago, porina said:

Who says that? Used it in many systems and it remains long term stable. I've never noticed any thermal change due to the paste. Never had a problem in long term with any big name pastes I've used, also including MX-2, MX-4, NT-H1 and more.

 

It degrades at 80c which is a temp Ryzen chips often hit especially x3D chips. If you use cooler chips you likely wont notice it degrade any faster. Lots of Reddit post about it (also common to degrade fast on i9 chips). I assure you if you compare it to MX4 on a x3D chip MX4 will perform better in the long run. 

[porina]

24 minutes ago, LeapFrogMasterRace said:

It degrades at 80c which is a temp Ryzen chips often hit especially x3D chips. If you use cooler chips you likely wont notice it degrade any faster. Lots of Reddit post about it (also common to degrade fast on i9 chips). I assure you if you compare it to MX4 on a x3D chip MX4 will perform better in the long run. 

Ok, I can see on their product page they claim stability up to 80C, however a CPU running at 80C is NOT the same as the paste hitting 80C. Reported temps are the maximum of sensors in the silicon itself. Even the average at silicon could be lower. With Zen 4, the IHS is pretty thick and there's quite a thermal gradient. The heat source does not cover the whole IHS so there will be spreading of that heat too. I don't know if anyone has measured it but there's likely to be quite a bit of thermal gradient in general reducing the temperature at the IHS to heatsink contact layer. In a very quick test I've not managed to get my 7800X3D (stock apart from EXPO ram) beyond 80C on any core. It is getting late here so I'll dig more into it tomorrow.

 

I do wonder if this phenomenon might explain (lack of) thermal stability when I used pastes under IHS on delid CPUs. This would put them much closer to the cores. I tended to find they work great initially but after a week to a month temps start increasing significantly. I put it down to pumping which still seems more likely. My main pastes were MX-2, MX-4 and Kryonaut for a long time so I can't be 100% sure which one I used where. I had big tubes of all of them since I went through a lot of test systems in that time period. MX-4 was the most runny of the lot so I mainly used it between IHS and heatsink. MX-2 and Kryonaut were thicker so I tried them in preference for delids, but again I suspected both had thermal pumping. I don't tend to run any CPU above 80C outside of competitive overclocking anyway. I also used Kryonaut for sub-ambient cooling since typical liquid metal mixes solidifies if you try that.

 

I got a new tube of MX-6 I haven't opened yet. That's my next paste to try, but I don't build as often as I used to. If you wonder why I didn't get Kryonaut again, simply price.

[OhioYJ]

3 hours ago, LeapFrogMasterRace said:

It degrades at 80c which is a temp Ryzen chips often hit especially x3D chips. If you use cooler chips you likely wont notice it degrade any faster. Lots of Reddit post about it (also common to degrade fast on i9 chips). I assure you if you compare it to MX4 on a x3D chip MX4 will perform better in the long run. 

I'm in the same boat as @porina. I've used Kryonaut for a long time despite these claims on CPUs and GPUs, and had no issues. It's on my 12900k, 13900k (both air cooled), 2080 Super, 3080, been on a 7700k for over 6 years now. Those are just the "hottest" use cases I have in service right now.

 

I personally use kryonaut for this stuff because I've had better results than other things I've used. Until I find something better, or it causes me an issue, I'm going to keep using it. It doesn't seem to be bothered by the high temps of my I9s.

[Alex Atkin UK]

14 hours ago, porina said:

Ok, I can see on their product page they claim stability up to 80C, however a CPU running at 80C is NOT the same as the paste hitting 80C.

Agreed.  A CPU can be clocking 90C but the heatsink may only be hitting 40C, because the whole point is its dissipating the heat as quickly as possible. Which is why you can touch an air cooler under load without immediately getting severe burns.

 

I mean even once it hits the heat spreader its likely to have dropped considerably, but it can only pull the heat away at a certain rate so the hot spots on the silicon itself remain toasty in comparison.

[freeagent]

I use SYY-157.. good stuff.

[daygeckoart]

Just use regular thermal paste spread as thin as possible. Conductivity is less important than thickness

[RevGAM]

6 hours ago, daygeckoart said:

Just use regular thermal paste spread as thin as possible. Conductivity is less important than thickness

Huh? Conductivity is THE reason for using a TIM and thickness directly impacts conductivity. 

[daygeckoart]

7 hours ago, RevGAM said:

Huh? Conductivity is THE reason for using a TIM and thickness directly impacts conductivity. 

Conductivity is a property of the material and doesn't vary with thickness. What I'm saying is if you want heat to move twice as fast through the paste, just make it half as thick. That is easier than using a metal conductive liquid with higher conductivity. Many people now are using too much thermal paste and ending up with a thick layer.

[Dedayog]

1 hour ago, daygeckoart said:

Conductivity is a property of the material and doesn't vary with thickness. What I'm saying is if you want heat to move twice as fast through the paste, just make it half as thick. That is easier than using a metal conductive liquid with higher conductivity. Many people now are using too much thermal paste and ending up with a thick layer.

With coolers having a stop for tightening, how can there be too much paste?  It gets squeezed out if extra.

 

I literally can't make my paste any thinner as my cooler won't tighten any further .  If I put less on, my coverage will suffer and it won't touch the cpu and cooler well.