Help with picking AIO

[RevGAM]

11 minutes ago, freeagent said:

The fans that come with his AIO are better than the ones that came with mine. You and your pump speeds lol.. there is a definite change between the round and not so round pumps lol, why this is such a sticking point for you.. I don't know.

 

You could answer his question too, you have strong fans, an AIO, you are good to go my man

True, the Edge has better fans and it seems like the pump is the same except the Edge has a better warranty. That said, the Notte and Magic Scenic V2 have better fans and pumps.

 

I'm not talking about shape - that was a segue (not to an LTT sponsor). Why are you sticking it in here?

 

I already answered his question. Just now was the second time, actually. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, though, so I would recommend the Notte and Magic Scenic V2 unless @Paul17 wants to get a weaker AIO and improve it by spending even more on it by adding much stronger fans. Maybe some 35 mmAq Deltas?

[freeagent]

I would pass on the Notte, and any other Thermalright AIO that uses a round pump

[RevGAM]

7 minutes ago, freeagent said:

I would pass on the Notte, and any other Thermalright AIO that uses a round pump

See? You're the one stuck on block shape, not me!

[freeagent]

4 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

See? You're the one stuck on block shape, not me!

You are the one stuck on 5300RPM being superior, not me

 

To me that would suggest the Notte  has a smaller pump, regardless of the size of the unit itself.

[RevGAM]

32 minutes ago, freeagent said:

You are the one stuck on 5300RPM being superior, not me

 

To me that would suggest the Notte  has a smaller pump, regardless of the size of the unit itself.

No, I am not stuck on it. That's why I asked you to test yours, because I want to know what the facts are and not just have to rely on my own speculation, as I explained to Paul: "In my clearly not-expert understanding of the effect of pump speed on AIO performance, based solely on having tested the TR Frozen Notte 360 with the stock fans and the Super Flowers and noticing almost no difference in temperature, I suspect this is due to the pump being very powerful."

 

I can't spend the money on getting one of the less powerful AIOs from TR as I've just spent too much and I'm actually dangerously close to being financially in trouble for the first time since 2021 when I quit my old job (jackass bosses who lied to me repeatedly, and crap pay plus mandatory overtime), and then didn't do the math to see if it was worth waiting for another sign-on bonus at Amazon (and, thus, lost way more than I gained by being unemployed from August to January). Yeah, not my greatest moment, financially speaking. I still have to pay off my car loan which, when I got it, I could've paid for the car for cash but I wanted to re-establish my credit rating (which was quite high before I moved to Indonesia for 15.5 years). I don't realistically expect that my YT channels will EVER pay the bills, let alone let me fulfill my desire for my own property ("own" being a semi-false land concept in the US since the government abuses caveat emptor to help businesses rob land-owners of their land, but still it's better than paying the mortgage of my greedy landlord).

 

So, if you ever get REALLY bored, please run that test for me. I would really and truly appreciate getting corroboration (even if it debunks my theory). I'd rather know the truth and eat crow than not. Actually, I probably won't eat a Corvid as they're quite smart and don't easily forget people who hurt them, and I don't eat meat, so it's a figurative thing. Humble pie is my favorite food.

 

As for smaller pump, I can see why you would suggest that, although couldn't it also be the tube inside diameter within the block, tubes and rad? That's one way to increase pressure, iirc. Is that your theory as to why I saw virtually no difference between the 2.87 mmAq and 72.37 CFM of the Frozen Notte's TL-E12B-S fans vs the Super Flower Megacool's 7.14 mmAq and 151.87 CFM? If not, what is the reason? They were both mounted the same way in the same location.

[freeagent]

The only reason why I am not running the stock fans is because I had better fans just sitting there. I also wanted to tone down the amount of RGB that I had blinking.

 

12 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

Is that your theory as to why I saw virtually no difference between

If you are running a stock setup, chances are you are not saturating your cooling enough. A stock setup will pull the clocks back once you hit a certain power and time target.

[RevGAM]

10 minutes ago, freeagent said:

The only reason why I am not running the stock fans is because I had better fans just sitting there. I also wanted to tone down the amount of RGB that I had blinking.

 

If you are running a stock setup, chances are you are not saturating your cooling enough. A stock setup will pull the clocks back once you hit a certain power and time target.

I ran Prime 95 for one hour with Small FFTs. I'm told that 30 minutes was plenty, and then ran CB24 and Time Spy. Linpack Extreme wasn't as demanding as P95, which is why I chose not to keep using it.

[freeagent]

Just now, RevGAM said:

I ran Prime 95 for one hour with Small FFTs. I'm told that 30 minutes was plenty, and then ran CB24 and Time Spy. Linpack Extreme wasn't as demanding as P95, which is why I chose not to keep using it.

Your clocks and power limits are being pulled back. Linpack hits harder than Prime, you just are not set up to run it.

[RevGAM]

2 minutes ago, freeagent said:

Your clocks and power limits are being pulled back. Linpack hits harder than Prime, you just are not set up to run it.

Ok, please explain how to do that, or link me to a good video and/or article.

[freeagent]

Just now, RevGAM said:

Ok, please explain how to do that, or link me to a good video and/or article.

You have to overclock your system. I do not know of any videos that you can watch. If you have not cared to overclock before, there is no sense in beating your system up now..  a good rule of thumb is not to overclock what you cannot afford to replace..

[RevGAM]

16 minutes ago, freeagent said:

You have to overclock your system. I do not know of any videos that you can watch. If you have not cared to overclock before, there is no sense in beating your system up now..  a good rule of thumb is not to overclock what you cannot afford to replace..

I experimented with XTU, which provided limited options and didn't allow much of an increase in clocks (to 38), and very few other options were available.

[Paul17]

I found someone selling a 'used Edge' however they're not local.   @RevGAM  - I re-examined the Thermalright AIO series and although I appreciate Freeagent's imput (hehe) - I am inclined to agree with your points that the Magic and Notte are the better AIOs overall for exactly what you said - better pump; better fans.

 

Why?   Well, the static pressure and cooling is better with the fans and for the pump - the power is lower - so, in theory - it should last longer than the other 4.8w fans (they're only 1.5W) - since, the pump is always operating and if you're stressing the cooler with gaming, for e.g., that's easier on the pump putting out lower power.   It might NOT be a lot but unless the 4.8w pump is better designed somehow, the lower power pump should (in theory) be more effective or at least last longer.

Are the other coolers (Edge, Aqua Elite) NEWER - with the square block design?  I dunno - good question - I am not sure which is newer but sometimes new is not better - for e.g., if a company cuts costs with newer designs to maximize profits or whatever.    I'm not sure if that was done here but from what I read-  there's not too many comparisons done with the coolers - mostly, a reviewer (for e.g. youtuber) will only benchmark test one of them or compare them versus another brand/model.

 

From what I read - most of the Thermalrights perform pretty similarly but with the usual differences of the fans - there's a few ppl I've talked to or read claim the fans are somewhat loud so that concerns me the most, I guess.   I want to minimize noise and I don't want something much louder than my BQ DR Pro 4. 

 

I would consider swapping out fans but then I would introduce another potential problem - which fans, then and since that increases the cost - is it worth it?   I guess it depends on what 3-pack is out there that would be worth doing that?   

 

The Notte I found on Amazon is $77 (CAD) plus tax and it's what I'm seriously considering.   The 'used Edge' seller is not close enough to me (although they're asking $40 and might sell it before I decide) - although, there might be some arrangement I could do to get it.   I think I should probably buy new anyway and most of the ones on Amazon are under $90.

[RevGAM]

4 hours ago, Paul17 said:

I found someone selling a 'used Edge' however they're not local.   @RevGAM  - I re-examined the Thermalright AIO series and although I appreciate Freeagent's imput (hehe) - I am inclined to agree with your points that the Magic and Notte are the better AIOs overall for exactly what you said - better pump; better fans.

 

Why?   Well, the static pressure and cooling is better with the fans and for the pump - the power is lower - so, in theory - it should last longer than the other 4.8w fans (they're only 1.5W) - since, the pump is always operating and if you're stressing the cooler with gaming, for e.g., that's easier on the pump putting out lower power.   It might NOT be a lot but unless the 4.8w pump is better designed somehow, the lower power pump should (in theory) be more effective or at least last longer.

Are the other coolers (Edge, Aqua Elite) NEWER - with the square block design?  I dunno - good question - I am not sure which is newer but sometimes new is not better - for e.g., if a company cuts costs with newer designs to maximize profits or whatever.    I'm not sure if that was done here but from what I read-  there's not too many comparisons done with the coolers - mostly, a reviewer (for e.g. youtuber) will only benchmark test one of them or compare them versus another brand/model.

 

From what I read - most of the Thermalrights perform pretty similarly but with the usual differences of the fans - there's a few ppl I've talked to or read claim the fans are somewhat loud so that concerns me the most, I guess.   I want to minimize noise and I don't want something much louder than my BQ DR Pro 4. 

 

I would consider swapping out fans but then I would introduce another potential problem - which fans, then and since that increases the cost - is it worth it?   I guess it depends on what 3-pack is out there that would be worth doing that?   

 

The Notte I found on Amazon is $77 (CAD) plus tax and it's what I'm seriously considering.   The 'used Edge' seller is not close enough to me (although they're asking $40 and might sell it before I decide) - although, there might be some arrangement I could do to get it.   I think I should probably buy new anyway and most of the ones on Amazon are under $90.

You made a lot of excellent points! Freeagent has a lot of experience with TR's air coolers for many years apparently, but only 1 AIO. His claim of newness flies in the face of his repeated resistance to accepting the various sources that have declared that the FS140 is better than the PA120, PS120 and FC140 since the FS is the newest.  He admitted to being a big fan [pun intended] of TR, and that bias shows. Still, he is quite smart!

 

What about the Frozen Magic Scenic V2?

 

To me, these are not loud AIOs, but it depends on where you put your case, how often you reach high temps and RPMs, which case you have, etc. WelshyTech has his PC on the right side of his desk, and says they are loud, but it is probably only a foot from his right ear, and he's half my age. 

 

If you have the DRP4, why not put those fans on it if it turns out to be loud? Then you'd only need to buy 1 more if you get a 360.

 

 

[freeagent]

Lol I will enjoy my awesome performance and kick back and watch you guys figure everything out  

[Paul17]

5 hours ago, RevGAM said:

You made a lot of excellent points! Freeagent has a lot of experience with TR's air coolers for many years apparently, but only 1 AIO. His claim of newness flies in the face of his repeated resistance to accepting the various sources that have declared that the FS140 is better than the PA120, PS120 and FC140 since the FS is the newest.  He admitted to being a big fan [pun intended] of TR, and that bias shows. Still, he is quite smart!

 

What about the Frozen Magic Scenic V2?

 

To me, these are not loud AIOs, but it depends on where you put your case, how often you reach high temps and RPMs, which case you have, etc. WelshyTech has his PC on the right side of his desk, and says they are loud, but it is probably only a foot from his right ear, and he's half my age. 

 

If you have the DRP4, why not put those fans on it if it turns out to be loud? Then you'd only need to buy 1 more if you get a 360.

 

 

The Frozen Magic Scenic V2 AIO - if I bought that, would be $10 cheaper than the Notte....However:

The Frozen Notte fans (TL-E12W-S) are quieter and cool a bit better?:  27.7dBA; 72.3CFM; 2.87mmH2O*
The Frozen Magic Scenic V2 (TL-B12W) fans are a bit louder?:  28.1dBA; 69CFM; 2.87mm/H2O*

Does that make sense?   

[RevGAM]

4 minutes ago, Paul17 said:

The Frozen Magic Scenic V2 AIO - if I bought that, would be $10 cheaper than the Notte....However:

The Frozen Notte fans (TL-E12W-S) are quieter and cool a bit better?:  27.7dBA; 72.3CFM; 2.87mmH2O*
The Frozen Magic Scenic V2 (TL-B12W) fans are a bit louder?:  28.1dBA; 69CFM; 2.87mm/H2O*

Does that make sense?   

I haven't yet had time to test the Magic. Two reviewers who have stated that it is a bit stronger than the Notte. Perhaps there is an undocumented difference,  or we need to look at another fact. The CFM and dBA gaps are very small.  I'll look at the specs on the boxes when I get home. 

 

If you're really worried about noise, there are other options. 

[RevGAM]

2 hours ago, Paul17 said:

The Frozen Magic Scenic V2 AIO - if I bought that, would be $10 cheaper than the Notte....However:

The Frozen Notte fans (TL-E12W-S) are quieter and cool a bit better?:  27.7dBA; 72.3CFM; 2.87mmH2O*
The Frozen Magic Scenic V2 (TL-B12W) fans are a bit louder?:  28.1dBA; 69CFM; 2.87mm/H2O*

Does that make sense?   

So, I took a look at the boxes, which have much more info than TR publishes on their website (lazy manufacturer!), and the two of them are almost identical aside from the minor differences you pointed out.

 

But, I solved the mystery!

 

The deciding factor that makes the Magic better is its magic, which is to say the ARGB!

[freeagent]

The pump, rad, and tubes have a higher flow rate iirc than the older models, I saw something to back it up I will have to look around for it. It might have been from TR themselves. With mine I am using a combo of TLB12, TLK12, and TLC12 Pro on my AIO. So I am not using the stock ones..

[Motifator]

Used AIO does not sound like a very good idea... IDK if this is available in your market, but might be worth a go concerning the fact that you want it kind of cheap:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/endorfy-navis-f360-aio-liquid-cpu-cooler/10.html

[RevGAM]

17 minutes ago, freeagent said:

The pump, rad, and tubes have a higher flow rate iirc than the older models, I saw something to back it up I will have to look around for it. It might have been from TR themselves. With mine I am using a combo of TLB12, TLK12, and TLC12 Pro on my AIO. So I am not using the stock ones..

And those pros are no joke, nor are B12 Extremes!

 

Would you guys like me to post the specs on my Notte and Magic boxes? It includes flow rate and max lift.

[RevGAM]

3 hours ago, RevGAM said:

If you're really worried about noise, there are other options.

1 minute ago, Motifator said:

Used AIO does not sound like a very good idea... IDK if this is available in your market, but might be worth a go concerning the fact that you want it kind of cheap:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/endorfy-navis-f360-aio-liquid-cpu-cooler/10.html

That is one of the options I was going to suggest, although the OP would do just as well with the F240 or F280.

 

I wrote to Endorfy last year asking about that AIO because it wasn't on the US market. Within months, it appeared here (online). Coincidence? Probably - but enough reviewers had talked about it that I think Endorfy realized they had an opening.

[Motifator]

On a quarter side note, IDK what Freeagent has done for that 5900X to pull 260W realistically. It's more like 120W... even with an OC. I don't think mine has gotten to high 200's ever in its lifetime even when it was racking a 4.5 all core OC and so on... undervolting is your key. If you're jacking up the voltages with a 5900X, you're definitely doing it wrong. Ryzens of that era have had frequency walls. Once you hit it, it makes no sense to pump further voltage.

[freeagent]

I just ran Linpack. Those limits are needed for my overclock. If you are running yours at stock, you will never do more than 143w.

5 minutes ago, Motifator said:

undervolting is your key.

I was using the curve in conjunction with boost override. Also, I have one of the first 5900X's, she loves to clock. Notice the minimum global limit

 

[Motifator]

IDK what kind of OC this is but it does seem like a pretty messy one with you pumping 1.52v to the junction just to get a few cores up over 5 ghz and the others to less. This makes no sense at all given the performance you gain with this kind of OC is nothing negligible compared to some all core OC towards just 4.75 Ghz at like 1.3v which was what mine was doing lol. You're just putting more tear and wear to the CPU, there is no point to any of this at all, honestly. 

The curve boosts regularly drive the voltage DOWN, NOT UP, this is the whole point of the PBO... you're doing the opposite of it.

[freeagent]

1 hour ago, Motifator said:

IDK what kind of OC this is but it does seem like a pretty messy one with you pumping 1.52v to the junction just to get a few cores up over 5 ghz and the others to less. This makes no sense at all given the performance you gain with this kind of OC is nothing negligible compared to some all core OC towards just 4.75 Ghz at like 1.3v which was what mine was doing lol. You're just putting more tear and wear to the CPU, there is no point to any of this at all, honestly. 

The curve boosts regularly drive the voltage DOWN, NOT UP, this is the whole point of the PBO... you're doing the opposite of it.

That is PBO new guy.

 

All negative curve too. You're brilliance is shining through.