Alternative to 990 Pro?

[AlfaProto]

Thanks to a friend that gifted me this piece of add-in card during the Festive season, I now find myself wondering which 4TB PCIE SSD I should go for in order to replace my 2x3TB Toshiba P300.

 

I'm looking at the Samsung 990 Pro since:

1. I already have a 980 (yes, it's the non-Pro, I didn't omit the Pro), and knows it's performance characteristics.
2. I also have 2 more 870 EVO 4TB, so pretty much Samsung ecosystem.
3. I can walk to multiple local shops and purchase one.
4. TLC-based and has DRAM cache

Except ONE issue, it cost $500-$550, after currency conversion and tax from US$.

 

The two 3TB drives I'll be replacing are my Workspace/Documents/Downloads and Game Records, and yes, I know the add-in card splits PCIE 3.0 x4 into PCIE 3.0 x1, but in the future (5-7 years--already 3 years, based on my upgrade cycle), I can get the 'full' potential of the 4TB PCIE SSDs. Plus, it's still PCIE 3.0 x1, still faster than SATA.

 

Here are the 4TB I can:

1. Go down and purchase
2. Doesn't have heatsink
3. Below $420

They are:

1. Adata XPG S70 Blade
2. Adata Legend 960
3. Lexar NM790 (Not looking at this, since it's HBM/DRAM-)
4. Crucial P3/+ (Not looking at this, QLC and HBM/DRAM-)

 

Are those two comparable to 990 Pro?

 

I'm discourage of looking at NewEgg or A to Z (Amazon), because the waiting time is two weeks---big OOF.

[Dedayog]

27 minutes ago, AlfaProto said:

Thanks to a friend that gifted me this piece of add-in card during the Festive season, I now find myself wondering which 4TB PCIE SSD I should go for in order to replace my 2x3TB Toshiba P300.

 

I'm looking at the Samsung 990 Pro since:

1. I already have a 980 (yes, it's the non-Pro, I didn't omit the Pro), and knows it's performance characteristics.
2. I also have 2 more 870 EVO 4TB, so pretty much Samsung ecosystem.
3. I can walk to multiple local shops and purchase one.
4. TLC-based and has DRAM cache

Except ONE issue, it cost $500-$550, after currency conversion and tax from US$.

 

The two 3TB drives I'll be replacing are my Workspace/Documents/Downloads and Game Records, and yes, I know the add-in card splits PCIE 3.0 x4 into PCIE 3.0 x1, but in the future (5-7 years--already 3 years, based on my upgrade cycle), I can get the 'full' potential of the 4TB PCIE SSDs. Plus, it's still PCIE 3.0 x1, still faster than SATA.

 

Here are the 4TB I can:

1. Go down and purchase
2. Doesn't have heatsink
3. Below $420

They are:

1. Adata XPG S70 Blade
2. Adata Legend 960
3. Lexar NM790 (Not looking at this, since it's HBM/DRAM-)
4. Crucial P3/+ (Not looking at this, QLC and HBM/DRAM-)

 

Are those two comparable to 990 Pro?

 

I'm discourage of looking at NewEgg or A to Z (Amazon), because the waiting time is two weeks---big OOF.

Do you need a Pro drive?  What's driving this specific TCL/DRAM thing?

 

The 980 is a great drive, I have 3.  Your implication of it being "less" is curious.  

 

Without a niche use case, all those drives will perform very well ad be indistinguishable from each other.

[will0hlep]

Buying super expensive SSDs (like 990 Pros or similar) for this add in card would make absolutely no sense at all. As you've said, they'll be running at a fraction of their top speed now. But also, in 5-7 years, they'll either need replacing or they'll be outmoded (it is very likely that drives in 5 years will be PCIe gen 5/6 x2/x1 not x4, so there is a good chance that you'll never get the full performance of the high end drives you'd be buying).

[jaslion]

The add in card is pcie 3.0 x4 shared across up to 4 drives. I know you are aiming for the future but by then who knows if the ssd will still be alive and also if things go like they are going a 4tb m.2 drive at by then potato speeds will be like 100$ if even so you'd just be better off replacing it.

 

A 990 pro makes no sense to buy here at all.

 

Whats the drive for this drive? Unless you have q super ultra mega niche use case you could buy a sata mx500 and blindly put it against a non throthled 990 pro and you'd be hard pressed to see any difference in regular use.

 

If ya want a 4tb drive just get a cheap but decent one. a crucial p3 plus is already far beyond faster than what the add in card can do and bonus ya can buy 2 for the price of 1 990pro

 

 

[kokosnh]

What is the PC spec? 

 

the legend 960 is the best from the one you listed. 
check if ther’s no Phison E18 + 176L TLC micron SSD, like KC3000 etc… 
 

I also have a 4 x M.2 SSD on PCIe switch running by PCIe 3.0 x4.

but I have 4 x plextor SSD 1TB m8peg in it ( MLC + DRAM ). 

 

 

[kokosnh]

5 hours ago, AlfaProto said:

I know the add-in card splits PCIE 3.0 x4 into PCIE 3.0 x1,

It’s ASM2812X, so 8 PCIe 3.0 lanes up to 6 devices, so etch SSD have PCIe 3.0 x 2 connection, and all are bottlenecked to PCIe 3.0 x 4 ( if the PCIe port supports it )

 

I have a PCIe switch on ASM2824, so all my SSD are PCie 3.0 x4, so full speeds for them. 

[AlfaProto]

4 hours ago, Dedayog said:

Do you need a Pro drive?  What's driving this specific TCL/DRAM thing?

 

The 980 is a great drive, I have 3.  Your implication of it being "less" is curious.  

 

Without a niche use case, all those drives will perform very well ad be indistinguishable from each other.

Uh, storing my Workspace/Documents and the second drive as Game Records?

The Record drive is obviously going to receive a lot of drive thrashing.

My Scratch disk (870 Evo 4TB) has 4 TBW, it was bought on Sep 2023, versus my game drive, which is 4.2 TBW, and was bought on Jun 2022.

Yes, 980 is a 'great' drive, but it doesn't have 4TB option, and I'm not using Storage Space to Stripe them (2TB + 2TB). The add-in card is there merely to 'act as a JBOD'.

 

4 hours ago, will0hlep said:

Buying super expensive SSDs (like 990 Pros or similar) for this add in card would make absolutely no sense at all. As you've said, they'll be running at a fraction of their top speed now. But also, in 5-7 years, they'll either need replacing or they'll be outmoded (it is very likely that drives in 5 years will be PCIe gen 5/6 x2/x1 not x4, so there is a good chance that you'll never get the full performance of the high end drives you'd be buying).

3 hours ago, jaslion said:

The add in card is pcie 3.0 x4 shared across up to 4 drives. I know you are aiming for the future but by then who knows if the ssd will still be alive and also if things go like they are going a 4tb m.2 drive at by then potato speeds will be like 100$ if even so you'd just be better off replacing it.

 

A 990 pro makes no sense to buy here at all.

 

Whats the drive for this drive? Unless you have q super ultra mega niche use case you could buy a sata mx500 and blindly put it against a non throthled 990 pro and you'd be hard pressed to see any difference in regular use.

 

If ya want a 4tb drive just get a cheap but decent one. a crucial p3 plus is already far beyond faster than what the add in card can do and bonus ya can buy 2 for the price of 1 990pro

 

 

Of course it makes no sense, but hey my old 1TB 850 Evo (SATA M.2) was still working fine, and showed no failure or errors (it already surpassed its TBW) before I retired it. Yes, I could still used my 850 Evo, but it's SATA, and not PCIE.

Unless I'm moving huge files, which I already see my 870 Evo (Game Drive and Scratch) to 980 (I don't know what I was trfing files to my main drive, but the drive latency for my SATA drive spikes up to 10-20 seconds.

Yes, SATA would solve, but here's my take, if I retired that add-in card, and hopefully, future mobo has decent M.2s, my drive is still going to be 2-4x faster than a SATA drive. Assuming my Workspace/Document survived, exception of the Record drive. That I know is going to be written very quick.

Plus, I don't know if SATA ports are still going to be around, or falls to mere 2 SATA ports.

1 minute ago, kokosnh said:

What is the PC spec? 

 

the legend 960 is the best from the one you listed. 
check if ther’s no Phison E18 + 176L TLC micron SSD, like KC3000 etc… 
 

I also have a 4 x M.2 SSD on PCIe switch running by PCIe 3.0 x4.

but I have 4 x plextor SSD 1TB m8peg in it ( MLC + DRAM ).

 

10850K with a Z590 board. I only have 1 M.2 slot, because the top most M.2 is only available if I used 11th gen CPU.

Completely phasing out HDD for SSD.

 

I mean, unless I buy the Legend 960 and open it, I have no way of knowing, and Adata reputation of swapping out part is really concerns me.

[jaslion]

11 minutes ago, AlfaProto said:

Yes, SATA would solve, but here's my take, if I retired that add-in card, and hopefully, future mobo has decent M.2s, my drive is still going to be 2-4x faster than a SATA drive. Assuming my Workspace/Document survived, exception of the Record drive. That I know is going to be written very quick.

Plus, I don't know if SATA ports are still going to be around, or falls to mere 2 SATA ports.

Not tellin you to buy sata btw was just for comparisons sake. Hence the p3 plus rec. Id just get that and call it good. Can even have 2! More so because the 990pro is stupidly priced whilst you wont see a difference between it and a p3 unless you are transferring over 50gb+ but by then you are still hitting 3.0 x1 limits of speed as the min speed of the crucial is above that.

 

Id just not invest such a massive chunk of money in something that is blazing fast now but will be regular if now slower speed within 2 years if not even 1 year since 5.0 drives are starting to go mainstream.

 

And if this is a documents/dump of files drive i'd really not matter. Good chance that by the time you upgrade you will look at another drive no?

[kokosnh]

I would buy one good PCIe 4TB and use it in your one full PCIe 3.0 x4 slot

and use the 980 in that pcie switch card. And in the future you can always buy more, I have 8 M.2 SSD in my pc. 
you will have 2000 MBps to each SSD individually in this PCIe switch card, so not so bad, very few SSD can actually sustain over 2000 MBps write

 

as for the Adata 960 there is no report of part swapping in it, as it’s the flagship PCIe 4.0 model https://www.techpowerup.com/ssd-specs/adata-legend-960-1-tb.d988

 

But the adata S70 did have a part swap, so I’m not recommending it. 
 

the P3 plus is Phison E21T + 176l QLC micron, so garbage tier of the PCIe 4.0 SSDs. 
 

NM790 have some 4K, and latency problems for the reviews…

 

what’s the price difference?

 

 

[AlfaProto]

12 hours ago, jaslion said:

Not tellin you to buy sata btw was just for comparisons sake. Hence the p3 plus rec. Id just get that and call it good. Can even have 2! More so because the 990pro is stupidly priced whilst you wont see a difference between it and a p3 unless you are transferring over 50gb+ but by then you are still hitting 3.0 x1 limits of speed as the min speed of the crucial is above that.

 

Id just not invest such a massive chunk of money in something that is blazing fast now but will be regular if now slower speed within 2 years if not even 1 year since 5.0 drives are starting to go mainstream.

 

And if this is a documents/dump of files drive i'd really not matter. Good chance that by the time you upgrade you will look at another drive no?

Except, P3/P3+ has poor TBW, when compared to the normal 980, and if 980/ Pro has 4TB option, I wouldn't even do this discussion, even if it's DRAM- (980), because I already own one, and know its characteristics.

 

Samsung only offer 4TB option for the 990 Pro, and it's basically a higher binned 980 Pro with 4TB option.

Once again speed is not the concern for now, since the drive will be on 3.0x1 speed, however, if I transferred those drive to a newer board in the future, the drive (Workspace/Document) will still be usable, and unrestrained.

Hardly, my Document/Workspace HDD was from 2017, it's still being used today. Only the Record HDD was replaced from 2TB to 3TB in 2019.

 

9 hours ago, kokosnh said:

I would buy one good PCIe 4TB and use it in your one full PCIe 3.0 x4 slot

and use the 980 in that pcie switch card. And in the future you can always buy more, I have 8 M.2 SSD in my pc. 
you will have 2000 MBps to each SSD individually in this PCIe switch card, so not so bad, very few SSD can actually sustain over 2000 MBps write

 

as for the Adata 960 there is no report of part swapping in it, as it’s the flagship PCIe 4.0 model https://www.techpowerup.com/ssd-specs/adata-legend-960-1-tb.d988

 

But the adata S70 did have a part swap, so I’m not recommending it. 
 

the P3 plus is Phison E21T + 176l QLC micron, so garbage tier of the PCIe 4.0 SSDs. 
 

NM790 have some 4K, and latency problems for the reviews…

 

what’s the price difference?

 

 

OK, Adata seems to be the option, but yeah, the only concern is the part swap.

 

No, my 980 is my OS drive, because at that time of purchased (Late 2021), the 980 Pro was stupidly overpriced (same 1TB cap), and the 970 Evo was out of stock (same 1 TB) no matter which shops I go.

 

That's why I'm not even looking at Crucial budget PCIE drive, they are literally garbage.

 

I looked at NM790, it's mostly due to DRAM- and the flash chips.

 

The price difference on average (across 4 shops) between L960 and NM790 is merely $50-70. HOWEVER, I did inquired, and the NM790 seems to be more readily available than the L960.

[kokosnh]

5 hours ago, AlfaProto said:

Once again speed is not the concern for now, since the drive will be on 3.0x1 speed,

Why is that? What motherboard model do you have? 

[kokosnh]

5 hours ago, AlfaProto said:

I looked at NM790, it's mostly due to DRAM- and the flash chips.

It’s DRAMless. 
https://www.techpowerup.com/ssd-specs/lexar-nm790-1-tb.d1493
 

Maxio MAP1602A ( 4-core r5, 4-channel 2400MTps, 4CE/channel ) +

232l TLC YMTC ( 2400MTps ) 

[AlfaProto]

1 hour ago, kokosnh said:

Why is that? What motherboard model do you have? 

Z590 Vision D, with 10850K.

 

1 hour ago, kokosnh said:

It’s DRAMless. 
https://www.techpowerup.com/ssd-specs/lexar-nm790-1-tb.d1493
 

Maxio MAP1602A ( 4-core r5, 4-channel 2400MTps, 4CE/channel ) +

232l TLC YMTC ( 2400MTps ) 

Yes, it's DRAMless, I saved few characters by making it DRAM-.

[kokosnh]

2 hours ago, AlfaProto said:

Z590 Vision D, with 10850K.

 

Ok so you have 2 x M.2 slots from chipset 

M2M_SB PCIe 3.0 x4 
M2P_SB  PCIe 3.0 x4 
The M2P_SB share the x4 bandwidth with the PCIE X4 slot, when both are in use, they are both on the PCIe 3.0 x2, when only one is in use, they have PCIe 3.0 x 4. 

So you can have 2 x M.2 SSD on Full PCIe 3.0 x4 lanes 
Or you can use that PCIe switch card on ASM2812X to have aditional 4 SSD with individual links PCIe 3.0 x2, and shared PCIe 3.0 x 4 (or shared x2, if you use the M2P_SB, to have 6 x M.2 SSD in your system)
The slowest SSD, will still be getting PCIe 3.0 x2 link, however you use that adapter, so 2000MBps, I don't know where did that

9 hours ago, AlfaProto said:

since the drive will be on 3.0x1 speed

come from 

If you want for now just buy one aditional 4 TB SSD, then just use it in M2M_SB, and move the samsung 980 to the M2P_SB. 

Ps, in future, you can just use the PCIe x4 to M.2 adapter, in the PCIE X8 slot, to have additional M.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 slot (it will cut the GPU port to PCIE 3.0 x 8, but that's still plenty enough, aside the top of the top tire GPUs)

[AlfaProto]

27 minutes ago, kokosnh said:

Ok so you have 2 x M.2 slots from chipset 

M2M_SB PCIe 3.0 x4 
M2P_SB  PCIe 3.0 x4 
The M2P_SB share the x4 bandwidth with the PCIE X4 slot, when both are in use, they are both on the PCIe 3.0 x2, when only one is in use, they have PCIe 3.0 x 4.

If you want for now just buy one aditional 4 TB SSD, then just use it in M2M_SB, and move the samsung 980 to the M2P_SB. 
 

Currently set-up as this above

 

I mean, moving it to either slot will not impact any performance.

 

27 minutes ago, kokosnh said:

Or you can use that PCIe switch card on ASM2812X to have aditional 4 SSD with individual links PCIe 3.0 x2, and shared PCIe 3.0 x 4 (or shared x2, if you use the M2P_SB, to have 6 x M.2 SSD in your system)

The slowest SSD, will still be getting PCIe 3.0 x2 link, however you use that adapter, so 2000MBps, I don't know where did that

come from

I just safely (and worst) assume that each is going for x1 if populate all 4, because the lack of documentation.

27 minutes ago, kokosnh said:

Ps, in future, you can just use the PCIe x4 to M.2 adapter, in the PCIE X8 slot, to have additional M.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 slot (it will cut the GPU port to PCIE 3.0 x 8, but that's still plenty enough, aside the top of the top tire GPUs)

Yeah, I have a 3080, and is worried if i will run into roadblock since I consider SSD on PCIE is more intensive than GPU.

 

I cannot remember which video which actually demoed it. I vaguely remember it was either a game or synthetic 3D benchmark running (should be benchmark), and a heavy file transfer. Again vaguely recalled that the SSD tank the GPU.

[kokosnh]

19 minutes ago, AlfaProto said:

Yeah, I have a 3080

The PCIe 3.0 x8 will cut around 4% FPS, from it. 

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-pci-express-scaling/27.html

not great, not terrible. 

you can just use that PCIe switch, and have 5 more M.2 PCIe 3.0 x2, you could use that adapter only if you need that PCIe 3.0 x4 for second SSD. 

 

[kokosnh]

36 minutes ago, AlfaProto said:

I just safely (and worst) assume that each is going for x1 if populate all 4, because the lack of documentation.

I had to look for the photos of it, to find it uses ASM2812X, then it was easy, but it’s true, form the spec on the sabrent site, you can’t figure out how it’s working. 
I wonder if it intentional, as you can buy PCIe switches in 150-200$ , that uses ASM2824 ( I have one on it ), that have double the share, and individual link speed. 

 

 

[AlfaProto]

12 hours ago, kokosnh said:

I had to look for the photos of it, to find it uses ASM2812X, then it was easy, but it’s true, form the spec on the sabrent site, you can’t figure out how it’s working. 
I wonder if it intentional, as you can buy PCIe switches in 150-200$ , that uses ASM2824 ( I have one on it ), that have double the share, and individual link speed. 

 

 

Yep, it's using ASM2812X.

Yeah, I was looking at other alternative like this one, but I decided not to because my current solution is merely increasing the ability to add M.2, speed is secondary.

[kokosnh]

Well ok, so how many SSD you want to use now? 
I would recommend going like this.

if you want to use up to 2 x M.2 SSD. 
just use the , M2M_SB and M2P_SB.

 

if you want to use 3-5 x M.2 SSD. 
Use M2M_SB, and that sabrent EC-P3X4 in PCIex4 port

if you want to use 6 x M.2 SSD.

Use M2M_SB and M2P_SB, and that sabrent EC-P3X4 in PCIex4 port

 

if you want to use 7 x M.2 SSD. 

Use M2M_SB and M2P_SB, and that sabrent EC-P3X4 in PCIex4 port, and a PCIe x4 to M.2 adapter (10$) in PCIEX8 port.
 

if you want to use 8 x M.2 SSD

Use M2M_SB and M2P_SB, and that sabrent EC-P3X4 in PCIex4 port, and a PCIe x4 to M.2 adapter (10$) in PCIEX8 port, and a PCIe x1 to M.2 adapter (10$) in the PCIEX1 port. 
 

[AlfaProto]

1 hour ago, kokosnh said:

Well ok, so how many SSD you want to use now? 
I would recommend going like this.

if you want to use up to 2 x M.2 SSD. 
just use the , M2M_SB and M2P_SB.

 

if you want to use 3-5 x M.2 SSD. 
Use M2M_SB, and that sabrent EC-P3X4 in PCIex4 port

if you want to use 6 x M.2 SSD.

Use M2M_SB and M2P_SB, and that sabrent EC-P3X4 in PCIex4 port

 

if you want to use 7 x M.2 SSD. 

Use M2M_SB and M2P_SB, and that sabrent EC-P3X4 in PCIex4 port, and a PCIe x4 to M.2 adapter (10$) in PCIEX8 port.
 

if you want to use 8 x M.2 SSD

Use M2M_SB and M2P_SB, and that sabrent EC-P3X4 in PCIex4 port, and a PCIe x4 to M.2 adapter (10$) in PCIEX8 port, and a PCIe x1 to M.2 adapter (10$) in the PCIEX1 port. 
 

Current configuration:

1. 980 1TB - OS Drive
2. 870 Evo 4TB - Game Drive
3. 870 Evo 4TB - Scratch Drive
4. P300 3TB - Workspace/Document
5. P300 3TB - Records

 

Planned configuration:

 

1. 980 1TB - OS Drive
2. 870 Evo 4TB - Game Drive
3. 870 Evo 4TB - Scratch Drive
4. PCIE-based SSD 4TB - Workspace/Document
5. PCIE-based SSD 4TB - Records'

Plus, I got that add-in card because, accessing the motherboard M.2 requires a lot of steps for me:

1. Remove my front CPU fan (I have AK620 and dual fan)
2. Remove all of my expansion cards (GPU + USB card)
3. Remove the large motherboard/m.2 heatsink
4. Finally get to my M.2 on motherboard

It's literally 8+ steps. WIth that add-in card, the steps are significantly reduced.

 

[kokosnh]

Hmm, you could also just use a PCIe x1 to M.2 adapter, and use the PCIEX1 slot for the 980 in os (PCIe 3.0 x1 so 1000MBps), and use M2M_SB and M2P_SB, for the 2 x 4TB SSD .

 

that way you have full PCIe 3.0 x4 (3500MBps) to both of the 4TB SSD, and OS on PCIe 3.0 x 1  for that 980. 
 

1 hour ago, AlfaProto said:

Remove all of my expansion cards (GPU + USB card)

What USB card, you didn’t mention it before

 

ps. Why on earth you need to remove the CPU cooler? 

[AlfaProto]

1 hour ago, kokosnh said:

Hmm, you could also just use a PCIe x1 to M.2 adapter, and use the PCIEX1 slot for the 980 in os (PCIe 3.0 x1 so 1000MBps), and use M2M_SB and M2P_SB, for the 2 x 4TB SSD .

 

that way you have full PCIe 3.0 x4 (3500MBps) to both of the 4TB SSD, and OS on PCIe 3.0 x 1  for that 980. 
 

What USB card, you didn’t mention it before

 

ps. Why on earth you need to remove the CPU cooler? 

Ok, now this is a very confusing and too much. This is all deviating from the convo. I'm stopping here.

[kokosnh]

the idea is like this, 

This way, you only have to once disasemble the PC, and later you can add more SSD in that sabrent EC-P3X4 in PCIex4 port, if you have to. 
This way, we have max speed of 3500MBps for the fast 4TB SSD. 
The OS SSD 980 doesn't really need that much sequential speeds. (like it's 980)

But now, I need to know, what's with that USB card you mention, is it inserted it that PCIe 3.0 x1 slot? 

[AlfaProto]

1 hour ago, kokosnh said:

the idea is like this, 

This way, you only have to once disasemble the PC, and later you can add more SSD in that sabrent EC-P3X4 in PCIex4 port, if you have to. 
This way, we have max speed of 3500MBps for the fast 4TB SSD. 
The OS SSD 980 doesn't really need that much sequential speeds. (like it's 980)

But now, I need to know, what's with that USB card you mention, is it inserted it that PCIe 3.0 x1 slot? 

Stop, this already going off topic. I merely asked what the alternative to a 990 Pro.