7800x3d idle temps are higher with AIO than air

[Celador]

I am a kind of person that spirals if something isn't going right, and I just can't seem to find an answer to a few questions I have.

I've replaced my Noctua u12a cooler which has some noise issue with a fan, with Lian Li's Galahad 360 AIO, and for some reason I am getting higher idle temps, and barely any different load temps. With noctua I was getting around 50C while idling, and up to 87c on full rpm at load using cpu burn-in in furmark. With galahad I am getting around 55C (with random spikes up to 60C) at idle (or at least browsing, watching a video) and for some reason up to 82-84CC in the same burn in test, with full radiator fan speed and 70% pump speed. Increasing pump speed to 100% makes a difference of the grand total 3C, so the same burn in test goes up to 79-80CC. In both cases cpu held it's full load - 4800Mhz on multicore, and 5050 on single core (on single core in both cases it never went beyond 70c).

I did replace thermal paste, and I've used the very last bit of my noctua nt-h2, which changed nothing. I have lian li evo xl case, which is huge, 11 fans inside (they run at lower rpm, but still), and I open the window for a winter breeze, keeping my ambient temps around 20C. I tightened everything firmly (it was hard to do by hand, so I used screwdriver), and after replacing thermal paste I've checked, and it was evenly spread. I've noticed quite a lot of people who claim to have 40C idling, and a few claiming to have even less (maybe they mistook core temps for package temps). What exactly I am doing wrong, and how can I improve the thermals?

My second issue is that I was hoping that with a lot of fans, and a good cooler - I would be able to run them on low, to not get excessive noise. It seems that 800-1200 rpm is a perfect middle ground for case fans, but my Noctua would be quite loud in games, so I decided to get AIO, expecting it to be quieter... which it isn't. How loud exactly AIO's pump should be at full rpm? Because some people again claim it should be completely silent, meanwhile mine produces loud whining sound, comparable to Noctua's fan on highest rpm. Lowering the pump to 2300 makes it almost completely silent, but then it feels like I am missing the whole point of having a better cooling? I do not have a reference point and couldn't find examples of AIO's running at full speed and how they are supposed to sound, but I did make a vid and found out others that sounded like mine:
 

https://imgur.com/a/9p9MhoW

https://imgur.com/a/V57HZM3

https://youtube.com/shorts/6EDpfXKeypE?feature=share

https://www.reddit.com/r/lianli/comments/15wmc4d/galahad_ii_trinity_whine/

Is this how it supposed to sound at full rpm, and I was simply expecting too much?

[alyen]

I only have a Deep Cool Castle AIO, but never thought the pump was completly silent. I would say it's fairly quiet and I probably have sensitive ears. I went straight to custom cooling a year later, but I don't think that is truly silent when trying to have all of the components within a computer case. Some people may think it is silent, but to someone else with sensitive hearing they will hear something but maybe not annoying. Sometimes the loudest sound could end up being the sound of the air being pushed out the case exhaust because the fan is up so close to the grill or the air being forceed through the radiator.

 

As for the video, I did hear a faint sound from the videos. I'm not sure where the microphone was, but if was near the pump then it may be normal. If the mic was outside of a closed case then something could be wrong with it. The temperatures you have seem fine. Hard to compare someone elses results if they do not have the same setup, enviroment and running the fans at the same rate as you.

 

You could try setting the pump to a speed that doesn't sound so loud as long is it keeps the loop running. There's really no need to change the pump RPM for an AIO since it won't do much unless you intened to push your radiator fans really hard to max out cooling potential. Even that may see little difference with such short run lines.

 

I personally think there is too much hype around AIO these days and air coolers need to come up with bigger designs.

 

[Celador]

5 hours ago, alyen said:

I only have a Deep Cool Castle AIO, but never thought the pump was completly silent. I would say it's fairly quiet and I probably have sensitive ears. I went straight to custom cooling a year later, but I don't think that is truly silent when trying to have all of the components within a computer case. Some people may think it is silent, but to someone else with sensitive hearing they will hear something but maybe not annoying. Sometimes the loudest sound could end up being the sound of the air being pushed out the case exhaust because the fan is up so close to the grill or the air being forceed through the radiator.

 

As for the video, I did hear a faint sound from the videos. I'm not sure where the microphone was, but if was near the pump then it may be normal. If the mic was outside of a closed case then something could be wrong with it. The temperatures you have seem fine. Hard to compare someone elses results if they do not have the same setup, enviroment and running the fans at the same rate as you.

 

You could try setting the pump to a speed that doesn't sound so loud as long is it keeps the loop running. There's really no need to change the pump RPM for an AIO since it won't do much unless you intened to push your radiator fans really hard to max out cooling potential. Even that may see little difference with such short run lines.

 

I personally think there is too much hype around AIO these days and air coolers need to come up with bigger designs.

 

This is basically what I've got from Lian Li support as well, and some of the reddit answers. They claim it's a normal behavior for their AIO, and normal temperatures. I am starting to think I am too obsessed and focused on sounds, because sometimes I can really focus on one particular sound and that would be all that I am hearing. I am also confused as to how the AIO turned out to be almost exactly as efficient as Noctua air cooler. Even worse - apparently even cheaper manufacturers such as thermalright can easily compete with AIO's, which makes the whole thing seem ridiculous. Feels like I've paid x2 times over noctua, and x10 times more over any other cheaper fan for nothing.

Technically, I do not have any issues in games either, it's the benchmarks and comparisons on some reddit posts that force me to dig dipper and seek more answers.

[NorKris]

i dont know if we should talk about the fact that u film like blind money into the wall.. 

 

but a few things : 

1. we dont know the  intake exhaust balance

2. we dont rly see where the rad is installed ( blind money stuff..)

3. who cares about idle temps?  

4. 84c with burnin test =  u got better temps  

[TatamiMatt]

13 hours ago, Celador said:

I've used the very last bit of my noctua nt-h2

How much thermal paste did you use?

[freeagent]

Who ever says who cares about idle temps is probably not someone to take cooling advice from

 

I kid

[RevGAM]

4 hours ago, NorKris said:

u film like blind money into the wall.. 

What the heck does that mean, Kris????

 

@Celador, which Galahad do you have? They are not all equal. Your temps are not amazing but not horrible, either. 

 

Your fan config may be part of the problem, so try playing with that. Do a smoke test if you can to see if hot air is getting trapped, or cold air is getting sucked out right away. 

 

You could also upgrade the fans to something with pressure above 3mmAq. I suggest the Phanteks T30 or the Iceberg Thermal IceGale Xtra.

[Celador]

6 hours ago, NorKris said:

i dont know if we should talk about the fact that u film like blind money into the wall.. 

 

but a few things : 

1. we dont know the  intake exhaust balance

2. we dont rly see where the rad is installed ( blind money stuff..)

3. who cares about idle temps?  

4. 84c with burnin test =  u got better temps  

I did this because the phones' mic is on the bottom. If I film it "normally" it sounds like I am making it up.

There are 11 fans, 6 intake, 5 outtake, I made sure that outtake has slightly higher rpm, to balance it out. Radiator fans are outtake, bottom is intake, side is intake, back is outtake.

Idle temps are just a reference point. I did figure out that lian li's lconnect-3 was causing +10c, because it was constantly using about 5% cpu to run a dumb mandala on their lcd screen on the aio.

And I am not sure that getting 2-3C less than on air in burn-in was worth the upgrade .

For reference - this is what lian li sent me:

https://lianli.zendesk.com/attachments/token/RuiETyrVYqmO5zxMQjKbe67dL/?name=724832609.973952.mp4

 

It sounds much better, because their phone is far away, but if you raise the volume all the way up, then yes - it does sound similar.

[TatamiMatt]

Instead of balancing out the airflow, have some positive pressure, match the back fans RPM with the intake or even lower, then increase intake fans RPM slightly, increasing the pressure inside your case will help to move air through the AIO's radiator

[NorKris]

5 minutes ago, Celador said:

 Radiator fans are outtake,

this makes ur CPU hotter. 

 

but ty for info

 

but here is "the kicker"  AIOs outperform big tower air coolers cuz
1. they have access to fresh air ( the rad is intake.....)
2. they have bigger surface area for the air 

3. water is abit better to transfer heat 

 

overall i would say that at  high temps are when the AIOs are "kicking into gear"  not at idle  

[Celador]

4 hours ago, TatamiMatt said:

How much thermal paste did you use?

I followed youtube videos and used a bit more than normally, and spread it using their plastic tool. I used the same amount both times, and checked that it was spread evenly after removing the heat spreader the first time. Might have applied too much pressure, because cpu lid left scuff marks on the copper, but it's also kinda unavoidable.

 

1 hour ago, RevGAM said:

What the heck does that mean, Kris????

 

@Celador, which Galahad do you have? They are not all equal. Your temps are not amazing but not horrible, either. 

 

Your fan config may be part of the problem, so try playing with that. Do a smoke test if you can to see if hot air is getting trapped, or cold air is getting sucked out right away. 

 

You could also upgrade the fans to something with pressure above 3mmAq. I suggest the Phanteks T30 or the Iceberg Thermal IceGale Xtra.

Galahad II sl inf 360 lcd. It has slightly less powerful fans than their other aio's (2100 rpm max), I could replace them with noctuas I have left from previous pc, but then... I did kinda buy it so all the fans would look the same.

15 minutes ago, NorKris said:

this makes ur CPU hotter. 

 

but ty for info

 

but here is "the kicker"  AIOs outperform big tower air coolers cuz
1. they have access to fresh air ( the rad is intake.....)
2. they have bigger surface area for the air 

3. water is abit better to transfer heat 

soo idle is not rly coved

How do fans on a radiator on an outtake makes it hotter? I mean I could put reverse fans on it instead, but usually it's better to have air go through the radiator, rather than in a radiator, isn't it? I would also have to make bottom an outtake, but heat usually rises up, which seems it would make it inefficient? Also, it would make hot air from AIO blow right into my GPU which might be worse for it.

16 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

Instead of balancing out the airflow, have some positive pressure, match the back fans RPM with the intake or even lower, then increase intake fans RPM slightly, increasing the pressure inside your case will help to move air through the AIO's radiator

Unfortunately, it won't help - I did a reverse build, and my GPU is somewhat blocking the air to the radiator. GPU has amazing thermals after underclocking it a bit as a result, because it soaks up all the air I guess. What are your temps on 7800x3d by the way?

Also included the pic of the case, so it's easier to see how I did it.

[TatamiMatt]

36 minutes ago, Celador said:

I followed youtube videos and used a bit more than normally, and spread it using their plastic tool. I used the same amount both times, and checked that it was spread evenly after removing the heat spreader the first time. Might have applied too much pressure, because cpu lid left scuff marks on the copper, but it's also kinda unavoidable.

 

Galahad II sl inf 360 lcd. It has slightly less powerful fans than their other aio's (2100 rpm max), I could replace them with noctuas I have left from previous pc, but then... I did kinda buy it so all the fans would look the same.

How do fans on a radiator on an outtake makes it hotter? I mean I could put reverse fans on it instead, but usually it's better to have air go through the radiator, rather than in a radiator, isn't it? I would also have to make bottom an outtake, but heat usually rises up, which seems it would make it inefficient? Also, it would make hot air from AIO blow right into my GPU which might be worse for it.

Unfortunately, it won't help - I did a reverse build, and my GPU is somewhat blocking the air to the radiator. GPU has amazing thermals after underclocking it a bit as a result, because it soaks up all the air I guess. What are your temps on 7800x3d by the way?

Also included the pic of the case, so it's easier to see how I did it.

Do you have feet on the bottom of your case?

[NorKris]

50 minutes ago, Celador said:

How do fans on a radiator on an outtake makes it hotter? I mean I could put reverse fans on it instead, but usually it's better to have air go through the radiator, rather than in a radiator, isn't it? I would also have to make bottom an outtake, but heat usually rises up, which seems it would make it inefficient? Also, it would make hot air from AIO blow right into my GPU which might be worse for it.

 

This is a good question, and it needs a good answer

 

if we buy in to the premise that air inside the case is hotter than outside the case, that means you now are pushing hot air inside the radiator (and out the top)

 

Cooling works by using as cold air as possible to cool down something that is  hotter(the radiator) (cars have radiators in the front cuz the wanna use as cool air as possible)

 

 

[Celador]

8 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

Do you have feet on the bottom of your case?

Yes, could've been better, but the case has feet. I did try to put more height, but didn't notice a lot of difference. It's all balance between noise, practicality and temps - I could crank up all fans to 2100 rpm, and aio to 3600 rpm, raise the case, open the window, but it still provides just marginal improvements, and terrible noise. I've seen your temps in one of your post, they do seem lower than mine, and you have air, which again makes me think that something is wrong.

[Celador]

Just now, NorKris said:

This is a good question, and it needs a good answer

 

if we buy in to the premise that air inside the case is hotter than outside the case, that means you now are pushing hot air inside the radiator

 

Cooling works by using as cold air as possible to cool down something that is  hotter (cars have radiators in the front cuz the wanna use as cool air as possible)

It does make sense, I could try it I guess just to see what happens. I am waiting for motherboard strimer cable, I'll swap it when it arrives in a couple of days. But the difference in temps is so significant between some people, I can hardly believe that it will do much. I mean - the guy above has 10 degrees less in idle, and 3-5 degrees less on load... on air, on the same cpu.

[NorKris]

2 minutes ago, Celador said:

It does make sense, I could try it I guess just to see what happens. I am waiting for motherboard strimer cable, I'll swap it when it arrives in a couple of days. But the difference in temps is so significant between some people, I can hardly believe that it will do much. I mean - the guy above has 10 degrees less in idle, and 3-5 degrees less on load... on air, on the same cpu.

hehe  about 10 Youtube channels, testers and so on has tested this

(front intake on Rad vs top exhaust)

some got 2c better temps some got 10c better

 

and the avg was about 7c better 

 

Side intake would be best in ur case 

[RevGAM]

Try the rad on the bottom intaking, if it will fit, or on the side intaking. The top and rear should be on exhaust. 

 

I don't think that your Galahad performs as well as the Trinity/ Performance. Again, stronger fans will garner better results, especially if you relocate the AIO to where it's sucking in cooler air instead of struggling with heated air. 

4 minutes ago, NorKris said:

  about 10 Youtube channels, testers and so on has tested this

(front intake on Rad vs top exhaust)

some got 2c better temps some got 10c better

 

and the avg was about 7c better

I wonder if the differences boil down to different settings?

[NorKris]

7 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

 

I wonder if the differences boil down to different settings?

what settings are u thinking about?

[Celador]

17 minutes ago, NorKris said:

hehe  about 10 Youtube channels, testers and so on has tested this

(front intake on Rad vs top exhaust)

some got 2c better temps some got 10c better

 

and the avg was about 7c better 

 

Side intake would be best in ur case 

 Side is intake right now, I'll try swapping top and bottom fans, when I get the new cable, honestly tired of removing the glass panels almost every day, I feel like eventually I will drop and shatter it.
 

12 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

Try the rad on the bottom intaking, if it will fit, or on the side intaking. The top and rear should be on exhaust. 

 

I don't think that your Galahad performs as well as the Trinity/ Performance. Again, stronger fans will garner better results, especially if you relocate the AIO to where it's sucking in cooler air instead of struggling with heated air. 

I wonder if the differences boil down to different settings?

I was actually going to put radiator on the bottom, but every video suggests it's the worst thing you can do, also their pump is already somewhat noisy at high rpm, I imagine water sounds would be terrible as well. I could put it on the side though, along with intake fans, so it sucks in cold air near the brick wall, which is very cold all the time. I did a "smoke test" with incense stick just now, seeing how it went - it feels like the case sucks in air more than a vacuum, so it is remarkable that I am still getting worse temps than other people.

[NorKris]

5 minutes ago, Celador said:

 Side is intake right now, I'll try swapping top and bottom fans, when I get the new cable,

'Side Radiator intake  

[Celador]

Just now, NorKris said:

'Side Radiator intake  

Right now, the radiator is on top. I mean, would "side radiator intake" actually be bad? It will suck in cold air, then I can swap top and bottom, so hot air will be sucked right away from the bottom, and cold air will come in from the top straight into my gpu.

[NorKris]

5 minutes ago, Celador said:

Right now, the radiator is on top. I mean, would "side radiator intake" actually be bad? It will suck in cold air, then I can swap top and bottom, so hot air will be sucked right away from the bottom, and cold air will come in from the top straight into my gpu.

side-Radiator as intake would be your best option 

[Celador]

Just now, NorKris said:

side-Radiator as intake would be your best option 

Alright, I'll try it.

[RevGAM]

38 minutes ago, NorKris said:

what settings are u thinking about?

It could be several, honestly, but just for example the pump speed, fan curve, OC, UV. What are your thoughts?

[NorKris]

2 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

It could be several, honestly, but just for example the pump speed, fan curve, OC, UV. What are your thoughts?

iam now abit confused if we are talking about "OPs"  case or the testing of the youtubers,,, but if the last one:

Well these settings should not have been changed between the  tests. 

and my thoughts are that ppl that got the highest diff had the biggest cpu loads