t440p Is it possible to use both thermal compound and epoxy when modifying laptop coolers?

[Shutset]

I'm trying to figure out an affordable way to improve my Thinkpad T440p's cooling without breaking the bank so I done some research over the year and bought some cheap laptop heatpipes for testing.

So I think I came up with a plan.

 

My T440p has a 00HM903 dGPU fan so I plan to use a pair of copper heatpipes (one 7cm and one 6cm) to bridge between the CPU and GPU heatblocks. After finding a way to remove the paint safely from the affected areas of the stock cooler without damaging the pipes, I will use Honeywell PTM7950 padding to make contact between the cooler and new pipes to ensure optimal heat transference and then I will use the TechIngredients thermal epoxy to glue the sides to the cooler, sealing the PTM7950 padding inside.

 

My rough plan for modifying my T440p's cooler. Keeping the new heatpipes straight, I'd only bend them ever slightly vertically to make sure both ends can touch the heatblocks. I figured a second extra heatpipe would help transfer more heat from the CPU to the GPU heatblock. Notice the copper/graphene heatsink on top of the CPU heatblock.

 

In theory, this should provide maximum thermal performance with the best of both worlds - thermal compound and adhesive.

I will also apply this principal to install some extra heatsinks to the CPU heatblock.

 

Of course, this is all just theory so far which is why I wanted to bring this up here for any feedback and advice.

Thank you.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Might aswell try it and see what happens cause im kinda curious if this would actually improve cooling performance or not over something like liquid metal

[Average Nerd]

2 hours ago, Shutset said:

I'm trying to figure out an affordable way to improve my Thinkpad T440p's cooling without breaking the bank so I done some research over the year and bought some cheap laptop heatpipes for testing.

So I think I came up with a plan.

 

My T440p has a 00HM903 dGPU fan so I plan to use a pair of copper heatpipes (one 7cm and one 6cm) to bridge between the CPU and GPU heatblocks. After finding a way to remove the paint safely from the affected areas of the stock cooler without damaging the pipes, I will use Honeywell PTM7950 padding to make contact between the cooler and new pipes to ensure optimal heat transference and then I will use the TechIngredients thermal epoxy to glue the sides to the cooler, sealing the PTM7950 padding inside.

 

My rough plan for modifying my T440p's cooler. Keeping the new heatpipes straight, I'd only bend them ever slightly vertically to make sure both ends can touch the heatblocks. I figured a second extra heatpipe would help transfer more heat from the CPU to the GPU heatblock. Notice the copper/graphene heatsink on top of the CPU heatblock.

 

In theory, this should provide maximum thermal performance with the best of both worlds - thermal compound and adhesive.

I will also apply this principal to install some extra heatsinks to the CPU heatblock.

 

Of course, this is all just theory so far which is why I wanted to bring this up here for any feedback and advice.

Thank you.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those heatpipes look like they collapsed, which would reduce their effectiveness to a fraction of what they could do. 

As for the interface material, thermal epoxy should do fine for permanent bonds.

[Yua]

Amm, no. But you dont have to.

The product that solves this issue already exist.

 

Thermally conductive fast curing epoxy resin.

 

Frequently used in electronics for securing heatsinks into electric components like mosfets and triacs.

 

[Whatisthis]

Or if you want to go real extra, you can solder the copper heat pipes together.

[Shutset]

On 12/7/2023 at 2:35 PM, Average nerd said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those heatpipes look like they collapsed, which would reduce their effectiveness to a fraction of what they could do. 

As for the interface material, thermal epoxy should do fine for permanent bonds.

Yes, I know. I only bought these ones to experiment with - see if I can bend them by hand (using the technique demonstrated here. I just barely managed but I further bent them about with just my hands only to see if I can get them to bridge the heatblocks. I never intended to use them for the actual cooling.

On 12/7/2023 at 2:37 PM, Yua said:

Amm, no. But you dont have to.

The product that solves this issue already exist.

 

Thermally conductive fast curing epoxy resin.

 

Frequently used in electronics for securing heatsinks into electric components like mosfets and triacs.

 

Thermally conductive fast curing epoxy resin? Where can I find that?

23 hours ago, Whatisthis said:

Or if you want to go real extra, you can solder the copper heat pipes together.

I considered that but I found that A) It's too expensive for me and B) Too risky, especially given that I have absolutely no soldering experience. I don't want to risk overheating my heatpipes and blowing them up!

 

Besides, I watched the video about Tech Ingredients' thermal epoxy from the company itself and I was convinced this may be the next best thing. https://youtu.be/8MOTMq9g8Nk

[Average Nerd]

40 minutes ago, Shutset said:

Thermally conductive fast curing epoxy resin? Where can I find that?

Search for "Thermal epoxy" or "Thermal adhesive" at an electronics part supplier or similar.

[Shutset]

45 minutes ago, Average nerd said:

Search for "Thermal epoxy" or "Thermal adhesive" at an electronics part supplier or similar.

Okay but how do you think Tech Ingredients' epoxy compares?

 

[Average Nerd]

2 hours ago, Shutset said:

Okay but how do you think Tech Ingredients' epoxy compares?

 

That strongly depends on the quality of the thermal epoxy, as well as the way it was applied. For example, a thicker layer of high quality epoxy would perform worse than a thin layer of a lower quality product.

The Tech Ingredients epoxy appears to have high performance, at a good price. If you can get your hands on it, I don't see a reason not to go for it.

 

Please keep in mind that I'm not an expert in this matter though. 

[Shutset]

Thank you very much.

One last thing, does anyone know a safe way to remove paint from the heatblocks and pipes (which are aluminum and copper, respectively, if I'm correct)

without damaging the metal?

[Average Nerd]

18 hours ago, Shutset said:

Thank you very much.

One last thing, does anyone know a safe way to remove paint from the heatblocks and pipes (which are aluminum and copper, respectively, if I'm correct)

without damaging the metal?

Sanding it off with fine sandpaper and then polishing the metal might be a way. It'll be tedious,  but it works.

[Shutset]

2 hours ago, Average nerd said:

Sanding it off with fine sandpaper and then polishing the metal might be a way. It'll be tedious,  but it works.

Earlier, I found an article that says you can soften the paint with olive oil then scrap it off with a plastic spudge. How does that sound?

[Average Nerd]

4 hours ago, Shutset said:

Earlier, I found an article that says you can soften the paint with olive oil then scrap it off with a plastic spudge. How does that sound?

I have never tried that before, but it sounds so strange that I believe it might actually work.

Try it, even if it doesn't work, it wont hurt anything, and I'm curious if it actually works.

[RevGAM]

On 12/8/2023 at 1:33 PM, Shutset said:

Too risky, especially given that I have absolutely no soldering experience. I don't want to risk overheating my heatpipes and blowing them up!

There is literally no way that you can damage the pipes with a soldering iron. Their heat isn't even 1/4 of that require for copper.

[Average Nerd]

34 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

There is literally no way that you can damage the pipes with a soldering iron. Their heat isn't even 1/4 of that require for copper.

I have yet to meet a soldering iron that has enough power to solder a thermal mass of this size. Usually people use blowtorches or powerful hot air stations or heatguns.

It's also not about the copper, but rather about the liquid inside the heatpipe evaporating (the heatpipe gets "saturated") and building up so much pressure that the heatpipe just explodes.

[RevGAM]

16 hours ago, Average nerd said:

I have yet to meet a soldering iron that has enough power to solder a thermal mass of this size. Usually people use blowtorches or powerful hot air stations or heatguns.

It's also not about the copper, but rather about the liquid inside the heatpipe evaporating (the heatpipe gets "saturated") and building up so much pressure that the heatpipe just explodes.

I understand, but I doubt that a soldering iron would cause that. 

[Average Nerd]

Just now, RevGAM said:

I understand, but I doubt that a soldering iron would cause that. 

It won't, because a normal soldering iron cannot solder a thermal mass of this size.

Especially the cooler itself will just dissipate the heat pumped into it by the soldering iron and never get hot enough.

Everyone that has tried soldering to a heatsink with a normal soldering iron will tell you, it's very hard to do (I tried that, and failed miserably. But maybe I'm just not skilled enough.).

[RevGAM]

1 hour ago, Average nerd said:

It won't, because a normal soldering iron cannot solder a thermal mass of this size.

Especially the cooler itself will just dissipate the heat pumped into it by the soldering iron and never get hot enough.

Everyone that has tried soldering to a heatsink with a normal soldering iron will tell you, it's very hard to do (I tried that, and failed miserably. But maybe I'm just not skilled enough.).

I understand and that thought was in the back of my mind that the heat would dissipate too quickly, but I wasn't sure. I agree with you that it's probably very difficult, especially if your iron is low wattage.

 

Gordak Instruments:

Quote

3.Soldering Iron is Not Hot Enough

 

If the solder isn’t hot enough, it won’t melt or adhere to the desired metal. This issue is usually caused by the soldering iron being set to an improper temperature, or the iron itself has a wattage that is too low for the solder size you are using.

 

Resolution

 

 If you notice your solder isn’t sticking, check your solder material and compare it to the wattage of your soldering iron. You might find that the iron isn’t the right match for the job in terms of wattage and needs to be switched out for  a stronger one. 

 

4.Metal is Not Hot Enough 

 

Soldering is temperature-sensitive. The metal has to be hot enough to melt metal. Otherwise, it won’t adhere properly.

 

Resolution

 

Hold your soldering iron against the metal for an extended time until it reaches temperatures high enough for the solder to melt and adhere to the metal. You can also use a propane torch to heat the exterior of the metal you are working with, depending on its size and metal type.