Another Refrigerant Attempt...

[TheRanchRanger]

Hello all!

So I am doing a little research into a custom cooling setup using what's effectively known as a chiller. I only have HVAC experience and very little overclocking experience.

I plan on taking the refrigerant circuit with 130-250w ~ 1/4ton of cooling capacity(I'm still trying to find any Chinese parts with enough information to achieve this) and running the water through an a heat exchanger(it looks like I might be using a minifrige/freezer compressor with a 10ft .046 capillary tube to a chinese refer to water heat x).

The water loop I am hoping I can get cold enough to justify using glycol(32f to - 39f(below 0c)), I will be running it from the heat x -> Split manifold for cpu, gpu, and other component water cooling.

After the components I plan on having individual DDC pumps for each return line from each component, this will effectively give me variable zone cooling(slowing and speeding up water flow will offer different latent cooling effects). After the pumps, I will dump the water into a reservoir. I question if I'd run the water through a radiator at any point or if my chiller would be enough.

 

Note: The water loop can be run so many ways. We could put the reservoir in a number of places. I'm just trying to think of the plumbing ideas I already know and to me having the tank above the heat x would guarantee 100% of the heat x was being used by the water/glycol and no air is inside(I also just googled small air bleeder valves in the worst case but this is more like an old old bladderless water system with a big tank above everything else in the system).

 

Now I know theres allot of math on all the chiller and water stuff such as head pressures, btu capacity and loads, flow rates, and even how much refrigerant id need. But I think I can get close enough on all of this.

 

Now if my water loop can somehow hit 32f even with running components such as a i9 at 125w-250w(426-853btu/hr) at 100c or 212c (for reference 1 pound of water needs 970btu to turn from 100c boiling water to 100c steam water starts to boil at 180btu per pound). 

I will have the concern of moisture condensation inside the case if i can achieve below-freezing temperatures. My solution is to fill the case with something inert like nitrogen. Unfortunately, no one makes cases that I can pull a 500-micron vacuum on and repressurize with clean nitrogen. I see how one could make a case that could do this but I don't think the ports or anything for the cables could hold a vacuum.

I have been looking at mineral oil but I really like the idea of nitrogen because of its heat conductivity and I could cool it more effectively in the case.

 

Any thoughts on a case or this setup in general? Alternatively, I could use a lot of insulation tape and spray foam like some overclockers but I'd rather not. If this thread gets intrest Ill upload my plans so far but its really nothing more than a reverse engeniered water cooler or the pc chiller i saw on kickstarter.

 

Edit: my concern right now has nothing to do with managing the temperatures once the pc is running, I would hope to get AI involved with this but am sure that I can get a pwm software to work for my needs to start with.

Parts list thus far:

https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Hydro-Pump-Reservoir-Combo/dp/B08HSQV5NZ/ref=asc_df_B08HSQV5NZ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=475750632217&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3201814495331501072&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029129&hvtargid=pla-1004066291675&mcid=a729f3d895ec3b15b4ade1204a4acbdf&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmNeqBhD4ARIsADsYfTf1Ai3ZhpbvBLw9k_1t0Kh1KNohW-tsY9mlW1ItjjmR41GNW-_xH7caAmKgEALw_wcB&th=1

 

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803019267799.html?src=google&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&albcp=19108282527&albag=&trgt=&crea=en3256803019267799&netw=x&device=c&albpg=&albpd=en3256803019267799&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmNeqBhD4ARIsADsYfTewO_hcputxHhNxUomu7DbRCD2O6TCQv_iWsFq9uG_OhCn0vc9rzKQaAh0VEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&aff_fcid=9f3cbdb8df3d4f868c83910713fe8ce8-1700190788693-01119-UneMJZVf&aff_fsk=UneMJZVf&aff_platform=aaf&sk=UneMJZVf&aff_trace_key=9f3cbdb8df3d4f868c83910713fe8ce8-1700190788693-01119-UneMJZVf&terminal_id=107998910934465eb753a0c2fbb27c68&afSmartRedirect=y&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

 

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832655365658.html?src=google&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&albcp=20292293647&albag=&trgt=&crea=en2251832655365658&netw=x&device=c&albpg=&albpd=en2251832655365658&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmNeqBhD4ARIsADsYfTcgNXRFfiJNW_H9rsFNpaPgD9NZB-svxDvq4wcKDM472-vy0YV8w5oaAn5LEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&aff_fcid=ce8f77bd3cb54025986673556506914e-1700190701147-08683-UneMJZVf&aff_fsk=UneMJZVf&aff_platform=aaf&sk=UneMJZVf&aff_trace_key=ce8f77bd3cb54025986673556506914e-1700190701147-08683-UneMJZVf&terminal_id=107998910934465eb753a0c2fbb27c68&afSmartRedirect=y&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

 

https://www.amazon.com/Supco-Bullet®-Restricto-Capillary-Tubing/dp/B005L6CWXG/ref=asc_df_B005L6CWXG/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=673740638120&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16714810891159332170&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029129&hvtargid=pla-2226442306274&psc=1&mcid=5ff98166f30b3da1bfd3c8da814b671c

 

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-loop-ddc-4-2-pwm-motor

 

https://www.frozencpu.com/products/octo-fan-controller-for-pwm-fans?variant=47561231237397&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmNeqBhD4ARIsADsYfTcKmU8BV4km2pSLuvefefjdYg-1xJDY_UG27SxjI8PJe4NQx1jhWUoaAnKiEALw_wcB

 

This would also just include any random water-cooling parts id need from either ek or Corsair probably. As for the refrigerant I have barely any specs on the compressor/condenser setup but believe it to be similar to that of a small mini freezer. The liquid line would be the cap tube and i don't know what size the suction line would need to be as I don't know the comp/cond specs.

 

If anyone else sees this thread and wants to try and build this I can definitely help. The key difference between this setup and the only PC-marketed chiller is that we are still using a 120v ac compressor, they do make small dc compressors but I question how well they actually work. 

 

Thanks

 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

1 hour ago, TheRanchRanger said:

I will have the concern of moisture condensation inside the case if i can achieve below-freezing temperatures. My solution is to fill the case with something inert like nitrogen. Unfortunately, no one makes cases that I can pull a 500-micron vacuum on and repressurize with clean nitrogen. I see how one could make a case that could do this but I don't think the ports or anything for the cables could hold a vacuum.

I have been looking at mineral oil but I really like the idea of nitrogen because of its heat conductivity and I could cool it more effectively in the case

Looking at wikipedia mineral oil freezes at a mere -4c so specify what mineral oil cause it seems like a broad term and maybe there are some other mineral oils that freeze at a lower temp

 

Havent seen anyone use a nitrogen filled case for one of these, most ppl just insulate the cold parts with some closed cell foam and use whatever coating to prevent hardware death via moisture (could be liquid electrial tape, plastidip, etc.), wouldnt insulating the thing be better though? Cause now you have an entire case to cool incl all the other components, i mean thatd be cool running everything at subzero but im sure thatd take quite abit of power and probs not gonna be that efficient since you arent directly cooling everything

 

 

Whyd you go for a chiller loop instead of directly cooling the cpu with the refrigerant circuit?

 

The entire point is to get cold temps so more direct = more cold, more cold = cpu overclocks better and power consumption is lowered which means getting lower and lower temp gets easier and higher clocks are possible, and that positive cycle continues the colder you get till you either hit coldbug (from my understanding basically the thing stops working below that temp) or you simply cant cool it anymore cause you dont have anything colder than liquid helium

 

 

Id personally give it a shot if i get the money but instead of building the refrigeration circuit ill just buy a used ac unit and build a cpu block for it which is what linus did in his ac pc video iirc, the max -20-30c a normal ac unit hits is quite underwhelming but itll be good enough for a first attempt, some subzero oc shenanigans, and to make content out of

 

Think the ultimate subzero cooler would be something that uses the joule thomson effect

 

 

This guy demonstrates what one of these would be capable of, and hes aiming for liquid nitrogen production so if you make it closed loop and direct that cold to a cpu block you can get <-100c temps constantly, and technically if you have some nitrogen in the refrigerant mix you could say that you have a closed loop liquid nitrogen cooler =)

 

At -100c might aswell be running 7ghz+ for daily, maybe even 8ghz+ for daily

 

Might help if i can find some discarded commercial cryocooler for cheap

[TheRanchRanger]

@Somerandomtechyboi If we did have a case with nothing to freeze inside of it I'd say let's see what happens with an evap coil on the cpu. Honestly, my choice for a chiller system is control over the zones and it is easier to work with water when we're talking about such a small surface to cool. The capillary tube you'd need alone to get any real cooling effects on an evaporator as small as 2"x2" would be outrageous. Plus refrigerant is way harder to have any form of variable control over. A DC compressor in theory might offer refrigerant flow control but it can't change compression ratio(crucial to variable pressure/temperature compressors). 

If you really want I could look into a complete variable flow refrigerant system. The only issue is the compressor probably won't exist for such a weird btu load. We could get complex with bypasses and receivers and valves on the refrigerant system to basically create a variable system just by mixing the gas on either side and such.

 

Ill have to watch these videos and re-watch Linuse's video as well. My other concern is just how cold can these components handle.

[TheRanchRanger]

@SomerandomtechyboiAfter watching those video yes he is just making what I envision as the complex refrigeration circuit or one of them(allot of ways to pipe energy together lol). Honestly re-watching the Linus pc case built for phase change cooling its just too simple to be effective for everything I imagine. I have been using an i9 as a reference but would probably be buying something less intense, at the end of the day I want something more modular with a lot of options. If the case just has water taps on it then I could still use a traditional water cooling system(head pressure might say otherwise). 

 

If we want we could just build that case as linus was gracious enough to show us the compressor 

https://www.grainger.com/product/161K51?gucid=N:N:PS:Paid:GGL:CSM-2295:4P7A1P:20501231&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA3uGqBhDdARIsAFeJ5r2Rm9QHxINPc9M44mmfcUepC4lrtvyDa5jf33-LmBhCBZrNOIrzTesaApCaEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

since this is a compressor I know I could find all the info on getting us to a point where we have a good evaporator cpu chiller. The hard part here is really getting the captube/expansion device dialed in and the refer level perfect(the humidity level in your room would still impact the condenser even if the evap is sealed but I doubt it would be major(it wouldnt condense but its just how easy the latent heat is expelled)).

 

Ill do more digging in the morning but one way or another I want a non traditional cooler. (I hope its apparent I have the ability to do plumbing and could make a crazy water loop but I want a technical touch).

 

After watching linuses video on hacking an ac onto the cpu cooler I think we could do this easily and it appears to work well.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

4 hours ago, TheRanchRanger said:

I hope its apparent I have the ability to do plumbing and could make a crazy water loop but I want a technical touch

Its pretty damn apparent that youve got some real knowledge with refrigeration systems

 

i just want phase change for oc shenanigans since hooking up an ac unit and building or atleast designing a cpu block dont seem too hard (might have to get someone to fab the cpu block) since those ac units have quite abit of cooling capacity behind em albiet kinda meh for sheer cold which can probs be fixed by tweaking the thing (swapping refrigerant gases, screwing around with the capillary tube maybe)

[TheRanchRanger]

https://www.quantacool.com/polarbox-cpu-cooler/

This is an example of the absorption cycle(still cooling like a regular system but using the heat as the compressor. camper fridges can work like this and will burn propane to achieve cooling).

Really thinking about it this might be the worst possible way to actually cool a computer. This system is rarely found anywhere in HVAC except off-grid propane fridges. I get what they're going for but this setup makes thinking about making a variable refrigerant loop easy. Its probably my lack of ever touching these systems but I couldn't even guess how you connect this to software besides sensors and maybe a heating element somewhere. Speeding up and slowing down pumps or loading and unloading a compressor sounds easy.

[TheRanchRanger]

9 hours ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

(might have to get someone to fab the cpu block) since those ac units have quite abit of cooling capacity behind em albiet kinda meh for sheer cold which can probs be fixed by tweaking the thing (swapping refrigerant gases, screwing around with the capillary tube maybe)

Were limited to the refrigerant gas of the compressor(different oils and seal materials), The evaporators I know are made of microchannels (surface area). We need the refrigerant to flash and proceed to turn mostly into a vapor. Well need an accumulator to ensure only gas returns to the compressor.

Unless you're ok just sending it and seeing how long our components last?

 

[TheRanchRanger]

https://www.overclockers.com/extreme-water-cooling-using-refrigeration/