What is going on with usb4? Also why is there hardly any Amd mobile gpu's for the mobile market?

[Unique33]

If you watch the presentation on the amd 6000 series chips, amd promised us that all 6000 series chips will come with usb4 and they said all 6000 series chips will be compatible and support usb4. (As far as failed promises go) so far only one laptop(with amd 6000 series chips) fully supports usb4, and that is the  "CORSAIR VOYAGER a1600". All the other other laptops(from Razer to Alienware to Lenovo's Legion) that have been released recently with the amd 6000 series chips all are still previous gen usb 3. What is going on with USB4? Why are these laptop manufacturers rejecting usb4 and choosing to opt for last gen usb 3 ports? The reason why I am asking this question is because Dell just released the new Alienware m18 and it has all the bells and whistles and everything I want but they still chose to opt for last gen usb 3 instead of current gen USB4 which unfortunately became a deal breaker for me not to purchase this laptop.

 

My other question is why are laptop manufacturers rejecting to add amd mobile gpu's to their systems? I understand that ray tracing is better with Nvidia and I understand that Cuda is proprietary of Nvidia, however if every laptop chooses Nvidia over Amd wouldn't that be considered a MONOPOLY? Some time back Asus released a great product called the "Asus Z13", but because of (I'm assuming stupidity or incompetence) they literally shot themselves in the foot by combining a high performance Intel I9 cpu with a low performance Nvidia gpu, which drove the price up significantly(making it unaffordable for most consumers). Had somebody with COMPENTANCE (Over at Asus) understood chips and cpu's and gpu's, they would of said "wait a minute.... why not use amd chips? Since the Apu's from AMD alone is much more capable than a i9 and Nvidia combination, why don't we use the amd ryzen R9 chip and sell the graphics card cleverly disguised as a DOCKING STATION rather than market the 6850m as a "graphics card" (that way the consumer will view it as an ADD-ON rather than an accessory and will feel like they need it more than wanting it)". If Asus had choosing AMD chips over Intel and Nvidia for their "Z13", they could've put the microsoft pro out of business, but because of many Agendas they decided to become greedy idiots and left many people with a bitter taste in their mouth. If Linus was smart, he would think about that idea for his other laptop company he invested in and bring it to life.

 

The trend that I am seeing right now, is that many people are going mobile. I haven't seen too many people(like college students) still building pc's. I have seen a lot of people with tablets or laptops, and sadly 99.9 percent of the laptops that I see have that same Intel and Nvidia combo (which is very dangerous). It would be great if *COUGH* a laptop manufacturer (Like gee, I don't know..... "framework") could do something like the "Z13" at an affordable price. That way, a tablet like that could please everybody(the hardcore gamer, the college student taking notes, etc). I want to see more amd chips in laptops and tablets in general. 

[Alex Atkin UK]

4 minutes ago, Unique33 said:

My other question is why are laptop manufacturers rejecting to add amd mobile gpu's to their systems? I understand that ray tracing is better with Nvidia and I understand that Cuda is proprietary of Nvidia...

Not just raytracing, NVIDIA are just WAY more power efficient right now which naturally is more appealing for laptops.

 

AMD really only makes sense for APUs.

 

There are few USB 3.2 Gen 2 devices, never mind 2x2 and AFAIK absolutely ZERO USB 4 devices.  On the other hand USB 3.2 Gen 1 + Thunderbolt is far more common, so its kinda a chicken and egg situation where there is just no motivation to bother with USB 4 right now.

[starsmine]

Because anyone who actually needs more gpu power than what an amd apu has, which is a lot. Is a shopper who either needs it all or a shopper with preconceived notions of nvidia. 
 

imo if you need more then what an apu provides, look at desktops. 
 

also usb4 is still new, the product stack isn’t there. 

[Doobeedoo]

Chips supporting USB4 is different than manufacturer refusing to put it though. They are slacking, same like general USB C thing. We should have more C by now or at least half on boards. Also lack of DP 2 for monitors.

There are some USB4 SSD enclosures, also Adata lately launched USB4 portable SSD. 

I'd look at 7000 series CPU/GPU laptops now, could get some with USB4. 

Though laptops aside, on desktop it's so lame that boards are expensive, and you need to get the very expensive one that come with USB4 if you want it.

[starsmine]

14 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

Chips supporting USB4 is different than manufacturer refusing to put it though. They are slacking, same like general USB C thing. We should have more C by now or at least half on boards. Also lack of DP 2 for monitors.

There are some USB4 SSD enclosures, also Adata lately launched USB4 portable SSD. 

I'd look at 7000 series CPU/GPU laptops now, could get some with USB4. 

Though laptops aside, on desktop it's so lame that boards are expensive, and you need to get the very expensive one that come with USB4 if you want it.

meh, this is whats amazing about desktop. 
you can just get any board with a header and you can slap in a thunderbolt 4 card. 

But also the lack of USB4 AIB out there also points to just how new the USB4 standard is. the supply chain and product stack and knowledge is not yet there for mass use. 

[Middcore]

9 hours ago, Unique33 said:

My other question is why are laptop manufacturers rejecting to add amd mobile gpu's to their systems? I understand that ray tracing is better with Nvidia and I understand that Cuda is proprietary of Nvidia, however if every laptop chooses Nvidia over Amd wouldn't that be considered a MONOPOLY?

 

A superior product being chosen by most or all consumers over an inferior one is not a monopoly.

 

What do you want to do, force some laptop manufacturers to use AMD mobile chips? Are you going to force people to buy those laptops then too? 

[Echothedolpin]

What do you need USB4 for?

[Arika]

All the random emphasis makes YOU seem a little unhinged

[Lurking]

First time poster pretending to know better than the designers at Dell etc 

 

Did it ever occur to you that they know actual availability, prices and sale possibility of all these hardware choices? 

 

Were the items you want them to include actually available to them in the numbers required and at a price that makes the laptop sellable? Everyone can make a long spec list with nice-to-have features. Not everyone can make a profit. There is a reason not every car is a Ferrari, even if it obviously would be the fastest car 

[Thaldor]

USB4 is a bit "problematic" question. There's basicly 3 things that are going on: 1) The USB4 specification 2) Intels Thunderbolt3 certification and 3) Microsofts Windows 11 certification.

 

1) USB4 may or may not have full Thunderbolt3 support by the USB-IF specs, they're fine if the manufacturer just supports the minimums Intel requires for Thudnerbolt3 support which are 40Gbit/s data speed, at least 15W power supplying and implementation of Thunderbolt clock.

 

2) Full TB3 support requires Intels TB3 certification which has been kind of bumpy road for anyone who competes with Intel any way. But apparently they have opened for it so even AMD has managed to get CPU's and chipsets with TB3 certifications and so basicly USB4 supported. Again even Intel doesn't require 100% TB3 support from USB4 devices.

 

3) Microsoft Windows 11. For a laptop or PC to be sold with Windows 11 with USB4 ports by the Microsoft Windows 11 certification MUST 100% support BOTH USB3.2 features AND Thunderbolt3 features from the USB4 port.

 

So, out of USB-IF which manages USB licensing and development, Intel which manages Thunderbolt licensing and development and Microsoft which just manages with what Windows 11 machines shall be sold, only Microsoft requires complete support for every possible feature there could be on USB4 port. This seems to have become a huge problem because USB3.2 and TB3 do support some very different features and there still haven't been anyone who would have managed to develop USB3.2/TB3 chip that would support everything they have to offer. The few USB4 things there is have both USB3.2 and TB3 chips behind that port to have the full feature support.

 

But don't worry, if you see someone marketing their laptop with USB3.2 "40Gbit/s" ports, those are basicly USB4 ports but don't just satisfy Microsofts certificates for them and that is the reason why USB4 is so damn rare. Same thing with USB4 accessories, if your external storage supports 40Gbit/s transfer speed but is only "USB3.2 and TB3" that is only because it couldn't boast Windows 11 support with only what USB-IF and Intel require from it to really be USB4 accessory, in reality it is fully fledged USB4 external storage, it's USB4 port just probably doesn't support HDMI and DP connectivity and 100W power delivery output because that would be rather silly from external storage, especially portable one, but Microsoft does require those features to be supported COMPLETELY for it to have "Windows 11 support".