LOOKING TO UPGRADE RACING WHEEL

[kiki4431]

Hi, not sure if this is the right category, but here it goes.

 

I am looking to upgrade my racing wheel (Speedlink Black Bolt SL-650300-BK)

Actually, it's replacing rather than upgrading, so I use it primarilly for ETS2, not doing any racing games, just this one, and it's like 10 days in a year, personally, my dad is more serius in this so he is playing the game more often than I, however not as serious to spend a lot of money for something like a Thrustmaster TS-XW Racer, which is about 700€, neither one of us is villing to spent more than say 300€ in this, and than we both use it bassically.

 

with budget concern out of the way, I have chosen the following models:

Logitech G29 - about 250€

Thrustmaster TMX - about 200€

Logitech G923 -about 300€

Thrustmaster T300 RS GT- about 350€

-the last one is a bit over the limit, but if it's better enough then G923 to justify the 50€ uplift, then that is the way to go, but nothing above that.

 

What I am asking is, for your opinion, given the mentioned prices, and the buget, which one of this would be the best pick (I am thinking maybe G923, but I could save 50€ if I go with G29, is G923 that much better to be worth it?)

To me it seems that the only difference between G923 and G29 is True Force (which ETS2 doesn't support anyway). Might be wrong though.

Also, if you have experience with any of these models, Go ahead and write about them, I have seen some reviews, but I need more info, from people that actually use them, preferablly if they picked one over the other for XYZ some reason, mention it.

 

From the reviews I am leaning more towards logitech's offerings, but there is Thrustmaster as well, so if they have better something...

 

Backstory:

I used to drive with keyboard before, and aventually I decided to make a jump towards a more immersive way of playing, at the time, I didn't have much money to go with, and also had to build myself a good gaming rig, to replace my 15-yr old laptop (at the time), so I found this BlackBolt wheel, for 40€, at the time, I said to myself, given the actual ammount of play time in ETS2, going any higher has no meaning, I would be trowing away money for something that is going to sit on a shelf for like 90% of the year. Instead better put more money to a gaming rig.

In the meantime however, my dad wanted a rig for himself, and he plays only FS19/22 and ETS2, so now that wheel has some better use rather than sit on a shelf, but the problem is it's re-centering mechanism, it's bassically a spring-loaded wheel attached to a potentiometter, the spring is so stif that turning it around requires some strenght, and it becomes tiring quicklly, not only that, the wheel uses like 6 sucktion pads to hold itself on desk, and while turning, those suction pads have no way of holding against the force needed to overcome the spring, thus resoulting with the whole thing being ripped of the desk instead. I have managed to fix this by sticking a PVC sticker over the desk surface, where the wheel is, now it's holding, but sometins it would still slide a bit.

There is also no Force feedback whatsoever, apart from Vibration, which crashes ETS2 for some reason, but only a 64-bit vesrion, the 32-bit works fine.

The paddles on this are literally a toy, had to open them up, to lubricate the enclosure, where the pads are held to it, because it was unberable to hear the creaking sound every time I press them, so I put some silicon grease to solve that, They are just pads attached to half-gear, that turns the potentiometter around.

I tried to see the actual spring within the wheel unit, perhaps to find some way to loosen it, but it's sealed off in a secound plastic enclosure, with no screws or anything, apart from tiny hole for wires, that go to different buttons on the wheel itself, I don't want to break it accidentally, so I didn't go about doing anything whith it.

Also at some point the wire connecting the pads and the wheel unit broke, at the connector (which looks like a 4pin telephone connector rj-11 I guess), And I couldn't find any connectors to replace that, apperentlly they are no longer manufactured, So I solder a USB connector into the wheel, and than another one to the cable from paddles, to fix that, that is how I know the inside of the wheel unit.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention one more thing: it' only has like 90° radius, in both directions, so it is not precise, it is more precise than a keyboard, but not as much as it needs to be.

 

So I also need the one that is easier to turn, force feedback, yes, but, the one I curentlly have is very stif to begin with.

 

Any assistance will be much appreciated.

Thank you

 

[AndreiArgeanu]

G29 and G923 are pretty much the same besides some Xbox functionality. The TMX I wouldn't pick over the G29, the T300 RS GT is better than all of those wheels. It has 3.9 NM of torque which is nearly twice as much as the other (2 NM or so for the logitech ones and the TMX), it has an additional 180 degrees of rotation. If you're gonna use it very often it might be worth it. If you want to save money and personally I'd pick a used G29 or G923, or even a G27 since they're all fairly similar and easy to find for about half the new price or even less. I picked up personally a G27 for 40-50£ and I'm satisfied with it's performance.

[Nexxus]

I can't offer much in the way of recommendation with these wheels I exclusively use Fanatec, I can tell you that with the Logitech wheels, you don't get a shifter in the box, it is a separate purchase. Also the Logitech G wheels have largely just been rebranded from the OG Logitech G25 from...what was it 2004? they have added a few features here and there but it is still the same wheel at its core as back then. It has also gotten more expensive not only because they removed the shifter from the set making it a separate buy, but just the price for the wheel and pedals is more expensive today than the g25/7 wheel, pedals, shifter, combo pack.

Personally, I would ask here though for more insight on the matter you are likely to get more replies from people that are more deeply into this than a general tech forum.

https://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/

Edit I wouldn't touch that TMX Force Feedback, it comes with a 2 pedal setup which as far as I'm concerned disqualifies it from even being a minimum viable product if you are going to be using this setup with any regularity. Like yeah you can get a 3 pedal setup for it, but as far as I can tell you have to get the 2 pedal setup with the wheel so its just a waste of money.

[kiki4431]

1 hour ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

G29 and G923 are pretty much the same besides some Xbox functionality. The TMX I wouldn't pick over the G29, the T300 RS GT is better than all of those wheels. It has 3.9 NM of torque which is nearly twice as much as the other (2 NM or so for the logitech ones and the TMX), it has an additional 180 degrees of rotation. If you're gonna use it very often it might be worth it. If you want to save money and personally I'd pick a used G29 or G923, or even a G27 since they're all fairly similar and easy to find for about half the new price or even less. I picked up personally a G27 for 40-50£ and I'm satisfied with it's performance.

Ok, Exactlly what I thought regarding G29 vs TMX, Apperentlly G29 is better, for T300 however, that is when I would need some explanation, you say it has 3.9 Nm of torque, what does this translate to, exactlly?, Maybe more powerfull Force Feedback?,  maybe a dumb question, but I am not that familiar with Force feedback to understand the actual difference, that is torque, and also I don't drive a car in RL (didn't get my licence yet, sorted out), so Im am not too familiar with what Force Feedback should I expect or whether one wheel is better judging by Nm, so if I may ask for a bit of simplier clarification.

 

1 hour ago, Nexxus said:

I can't offer much in the way of recommendation with these wheels I exclusively use Fanatec, I can tell you that with the Logitech wheels, you don't get a shifter in the box, it is a separate purchase. Also the Logitech G wheels have largely just been rebranded from the OG Logitech G25 from...what was it 2004? they have added a few features here and there but it is still the same wheel at its core as back then. It has also gotten more expensive not only because they removed the shifter from the set making it a separate buy, but just the price for the wheel and pedals is more expensive today than the g25/7 wheel, pedals, shifter, combo pack.

Personally, I would ask here though for more insight on the matter you are likely to get more replies from people that are more deeply into this than a general tech forum.

https://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/

Edit I wouldn't touch that TMX Force Feedback, it comes with a 2 pedal setup which as far as I'm concerned disqualifies it from even being a minimum viable product if you are going to be using this setup with any regularity. Like yeah you can get a 3 pedal setup for it, but as far as I can tell you have to get the 2 pedal setup with the wheel so its just a waste of money.

Yeah, Fantec is not available in my country, even if they were, I belive they are outside my buget range.

Shifter, at least for now, is not my concern, if I decide for it I can get it for 60€ or so, for both Logitech and Thrustmaster (although not sure if TH8A shifter is compatible with T300), it is likelly that I will get a shifter later on, so 3-pedal setup might be worth it.

 

In the meantime, I found another model that fits into buget:

what about Thrustmaster T248, it is also arround 320-330€ (right in between t300 and g923), so how does it compares to them?

[AndreiArgeanu]

35 minutes ago, kiki4431 said:

Ok, Exactlly what I thought regarding G29 vs TMX, Apperentlly G29 is better, for T300 however, that is when I would need some explanation, you say it has 3.9 Nm of torque, what does this translate to, exactlly?, Maybe more powerfull Force Feedback?

Higher torque means the wheel is able to deliver stronger force feedback when needed so. If you're taking a tight turn at speed for example you'll most likely feel stronger resistance than you would on the logitech since the G29 can only send a peak of about 2.1 NM while the T300 can deliver more torque.

42 minutes ago, kiki4431 said:

what about Thrustmaster T248

The T248 is also a good choice, it delivers 3.5NM of torque and has a hybrid belt and gear system which is better than the gear only driven wheels logitech offers.

It might be worth looking at this comparison chart between various wheels, including all the ones you mentioned

https://simracingsetup.com/product-guides/ultimate-sim-racing-wheel-comparison/

And this comparison of belt driven and gear systems

https://simracingsetup.com/product-guides/direct-drive-wheels-vs-belt-gear-driven-wheels/

 

[Nexxus]

I too would advise for a higher torque wheel because as mentioned it will have a stronger FFB and even if you don't use FFB on max it can give you better ffb on a title that may have egregiously bad FFB.

And yeah Belt gear system may be good, its been a while since I used a gear-driven FFB wheel but they are quite "chunky" feeling though the wheel from what I recall. Belt-driven ones feel more smooth and more natural. 

No idea what a hybrid gear/belt system would feel like though.

[kiki4431]

OK, I think I will go with either a t300 or t248, I just learned that G923 gears can get quite loud, now that might be a problem, my gaming sesions are usually in the night time, so I don't want to annoy someone with G923 gears.

 

But studying t300 further, it comes with only 13 buttons, however, in ETS2, I relly heavilly on buttons, to perform a lot of frequent actions, so I don't need to grab my keyboard every few minutes,  and my current wheel has 16 of them (including shifters - which I actually end up using for left/right indicator switches, in absence of buttons to go with), I need 2 buttons for lights (daylight switch and longlight switch), one for vipers, two for indicators, one for hazard indicators, one for differential lock, one for engine start/stop, one for handbrake, one for dashboard display mode, two for interior look left/right, one for beacon lights, two for retarder+/-, those are major ones, I am sure there are even more controls to put on a wheel, but I could tehnicaly live without them. The t248 seems tempting with 25 buttons.

 

between the two which one would you think is better, the belt only, or gear/belt hybrid?

[Nexxus]

On 8/17/2023 at 4:27 PM, kiki4431 said:

OK, I think I will go with either a t300 or t248, I just learned that G923 gears can get quite loud, now that might be a problem, my gaming sesions are usually in the night time, so I don't want to annoy someone with G923 gears.

 

But studying t300 further, it comes with only 13 buttons, however, in ETS2, I relly heavilly on buttons, to perform a lot of frequent actions, so I don't need to grab my keyboard every few minutes,  and my current wheel has 16 of them (including shifters - which I actually end up using for left/right indicator switches, in absence of buttons to go with), I need 2 buttons for lights (daylight switch and longlight switch), one for vipers, two for indicators, one for hazard indicators, one for differential lock, one for engine start/stop, one for handbrake, one for dashboard display mode, two for interior look left/right, one for beacon lights, two for retarder+/-, those are major ones, I am sure there are even more controls to put on a wheel, but I could tehnicaly live without them. The t248 seems tempting with 25 buttons.

 

between the two which one would you think is better, the belt only, or gear/belt hybrid?

Belt system is always gonna be better than a system using gears both in terms of feel and noise. I cant even find mention of a "hybrid gear belt" system when looking up FFB systems which make me think its just a gear-based system with some insignificant belt somewhere in the "line" just so they can fluff up marketing talking points.

you can also just get a cheap number pad to keep by you for attentional controls

[Birblover12]

Something I'd like to add is that with the Logitech G29/G920, if you want to add a shifter it's only about 50€ give or take and you're done, since Logitech provides a set of pedals with a 3rd clutch pedal, whereas the Thrustmaster Shifter counterpart is over 200€ (although being nicer quality). Also keep in mind that depending on what "bundle" you get with the ThrustMaster you'll want to get the T3PA pedals so you get not only the full metal build but also the additional 3rd clutch pedal, something which will run about another 150€. 

 

Personally, I would recommend the G29 (and specifically the G29) simply because of your use case of ETS2, and because it provides a lot of buttons, dials, and the like. I've heard that Thrustmasters force feedback is technically better, but honestly, I've tried both the T300 and the G29 and I really only noticed the T300 being stronger, not necessarily more accurate. It was however, much, much "smoother", something which is very hard to describe. That's not to say the G29/G920 are bad, just perhaps slightly less quality in the force feeback department. Though I will tell you that in a game like ETS2 I really don't think that will/should be a deal breaker. The Logitech lineup of wheels are slightly louder noise wise but really not as big of a deal as I thought it would be.

 

Also, just avoid the TMX altogether, it's so plasticky and "toy-like" that you'd be better off buying literally anything else. 

[kiki4431]

On 8/20/2023 at 7:24 PM, Nexxus said:

Belt system is always gonna be better than a system using gears both in terms of feel and noise. I cant even find mention of a "hybrid gear belt" system when looking up FFB systems which make me think its just a gear-based system with some insignificant belt somewhere in the "line" just so they can fluff up marketing talking points.

you can also just get a cheap number pad to keep by you for attentional controls

I thought as much, I have watched a disasemblly video for T248, it seems that the transmision goes from the motor via belt to a gear that then drives another gear on the wheel itself.

The guy says that it's stronger than pure belt, while at the same time eliminate some gear cogging.

as for the buttons that video showed me how they did it, and ultimatelly I decided to cross that option altogether, while they say it has 25 buttons, there is only phisically alocatable 13 butons, with aditional 12 being programable on driver level through side encoder switches, what that means basically is that you have 13+4 buttons, and those 4 (encoder switches +/- on both sides), one of them is used to select a pre-programmed group of three remaining buttons (called P/+/- in drivers), than you have E1/E2/E3/E4 groups which you set on driver level to give you certain functions, but the fact is you have to switch encoder groups on the go to get a specciffic assigned function, which takes away from the focus, and I belive, my dad's understanding on such systems, would only make him confused.

 

therefore I decided to go with t300 RS GT.

On 8/20/2023 at 10:46 PM, Birblover12 said:

Something I'd like to add is that with the Logitech G29/G920, if you want to add a shifter it's only about 50€ give or take and you're done, since Logitech provides a set of pedals with a 3rd clutch pedal, whereas the Thrustmaster Shifter counterpart is over 200€ (although being nicer quality). Also keep in mind that depending on what "bundle" you get with the ThrustMaster you'll want to get the T3PA pedals so you get not only the full metal build but also the additional 3rd clutch pedal, something which will run about another 150€. 

 

Personally, I would recommend the G29 (and specifically the G29) simply because of your use case of ETS2, and because it provides a lot of buttons, dials, and the like. I've heard that Thrustmasters force feedback is technically better, but honestly, I've tried both the T300 and the G29 and I really only noticed the T300 being stronger, not necessarily more accurate. It was however, much, much "smoother", something which is very hard to describe. That's not to say the G29/G920 are bad, just perhaps slightly less quality in the force feeback department. Though I will tell you that in a game like ETS2 I really don't think that will/should be a deal breaker. The Logitech lineup of wheels are slightly louder noise wise but really not as big of a deal as I thought it would be.

 

Also, just avoid the TMX altogether, it's so plasticky and "toy-like" that you'd be better off buying literally anything else. 

I have considered a possible shifter upgrade later on, and yes while thrustmaster is 200€, logitech is only 50€, I would say I don't intend to go over 50€ or so for a shifter, so TH8A shifter is way over that, plus being all metal, it's a bit loud when shifting, as I've seen (I also watched some videos on that as well), I think Logitech would be enough when it comes to shifters, my hope is to get the T300 and than a Logitech shifter later (although, I have no idea if they will work together, maybe if I connect the shifter dirrectlly to PC by some USB adapter).

Noise is my concern as mentioned earlier, and I saw the G923 being quite grindy when driving, so I am still not quite sure about that one.

 

Also I belive the T300RS GT comes with T3PA out of the box, or am I mistaken on that?

[Birblover12]

9 hours ago, kiki4431 said:

Also I belive the T300RS GT comes with T3PA out of the box, or am I mistaken on that?

I think you're right, the non-GT variant I think only has a standard two pedal set in place of the T3PA pedals. So if you wanted the T3PA you'd have to get the T300RS GT, or buy it separately later on.