efficiency How sane is it to get a PSU that can sit at peak 97% usage

[venomtail]

Planning a new build, experiment a bit with looks and put to use parts just lying around. Here it is. 

 

Question is, when looking at PSU's, I've got 2 choices. Either a gold PSU around 700W or these platinum ones 550-560W. Which ones should I go for? I'm not planning on upgrading this PC. Set it how it is and I'll forever have a spare PC until a part dies.

PCPartPicker predicts a peak usage of 544W but I wonder what would be the average idle usage. Still, peak is 544W which is just short of the platinum rated ones. So it's just a matter of long term electricity costs. What would cost less by being more efficient? A Platinum PSU or a gold PSU sitting at lower usage. I can't seem to find efficiency curves anywhere apart from Seasonic's website.

 

Have I set my expectations right? When both at the same price, I should just go for the platinum PSU which in the longterm should save a bit of money thanks to it efficiency especially at 60%~ idle load where peak efficiency is, at the cost of future upgradability, which I don't need so it's not a downside.

[HorseBattery]

The main reason to buy a PSU with more capacity is for stability related to transient load spikes. High end GPUs especially can spike much higher than the rated max for very brief time periods, which is why they recommend higher capacity PSUs in the specs (even 800W to 1000W). A quality PSU *might* be able to handle it at lower rated wattage, but it is not recommended.

 

That being said, the Vega64 only recommends a 550W, so you should be fine either way. Although I would question the choice if you intend to use it for gaming as much better options exist.

[Sauron]

7 minutes ago, venomtail said:

Have I set my expectations right? When both at the same price, I should just go for the platinum PSU which in the longterm should save a bit of money thanks to it efficiency especially at 60%~ idle load where peak efficiency is, at the cost of future upgradability, which I don't need so it's not a downside.

I don't think you'll get much in terms of savings either way but do consider that efficiency would be most relevant at a high load; when idling consumption is going to be pretty low anyway and depending on your usage patterns the time it spends idling may not be much anyway.

 

Do bear in mind that a lot more than the efficiency rating goes into making a PSU "good".

 

The tier list here isn't being updated anymore but it includes power supplies that are still relevant today so you may want to take a look:

[thekingofmonks]

FYI the 80 Plus ratings (Gold, Platinum, etc.) do not refer to a certain range of power the PSU can supply but to its efficiency - its output (the system) to input (the outlet) ratio. A 1650W PSU can totally be a bronze, for instance.

 

See this Wikipedia page to understand better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus

[venomtail]

16 minutes ago, HorseBattery said:

The main reason to buy a PSU with more capacity is for stability related to transient load spikes. High end GPUs especially can spike much higher than the rated max for very brief time periods, which is why they recommend higher capacity PSUs in the specs (even 800W to 1000W). A quality PSU *might* be able to handle it at lower rated wattage, but it is not recommended.

Transient spikes only became an issue with the last GPU generation. Ain't no ancient Vega gonna power spike it'll throttle before given the chance. I'll think about it but I don't think I need to worry and get a 1000W PSU for my GPU.

 

14 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I don't think you'll get much in terms of savings either way but do consider that efficiency would be most relevant at a high load; when idling consumption is going to be pretty low anyway and depending on your usage patterns the time it spends idling may not be much anyway.

 

Do bear in mind that a lot more than the efficiency rating goes into making a PSU "good".

 

The tier list here isn't being updated anymore but it includes power supplies that are still relevant today so you may want to take a look:

Yea, in a sense I guess this is literally counting pennies, potentially meaningless in the long run but this efficiency calculation still erks me a bit. I tried looking at this tier list and one on a different site but couldn't find this Fractal PSU anywhere. Nothing on their own website as well. Tier list just has Fractal Ion under "A tier".

 

12 minutes ago, thekingofmonks said:

FYI the 80 Plus ratings (Gold, Platinum, etc.) do not refer to a certain range of power the PSU can supply but its efficiency, from input (the outlet) to output (the system).

 

See this Wikipedia page to understand better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus

That's fine but it's still a curve. In your own wiki link there's the efficiency examples at certain loads. If we need 500W, a 500W platinum PSU will do it at 90% efficiency while a 1000W gold PSU will do it at 92% efficiency. On a large enough scale that 2% can make a difference in time. Same thing here. I wonder how big the difference in loads would be between a gold and platinum here. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

19 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I don't think you'll get much in terms of savings either way but do consider that efficiency would be most relevant at a high load; when idling consumption is going to be pretty low anyway and depending on your usage patterns the time it spends idling may not be much anyway.

 

Do bear in mind that a lot more than the efficiency rating goes into making a PSU "good".

 

The tier list here isn't being updated anymore but it includes power supplies that are still relevant today so you may want to take a look:

Btw theres a more updated psu tierlist

 

but i personally dont belive tierlists because of bullshit mentality like anything that isnt a well known brand or not on the tierlist or in an arbitrary low tier is automatically trash and you should call your local bomb disposal team to safely get rid of it, and i have 3 living proofs that this mentality is complete utter bullshit and i am benifiting from it due to dirt cheap used psu prices (got a tundra 700w 85+ for only a mere 18$, and 12v = 54a so still like 648w effective)

[Somerandomtechyboi]

41 minutes ago, venomtail said:

I'm not planning on upgrading this PC. Set it how it is and I'll forever have a spare PC until a part dies.

Will it be running 24/7 or are you just gonna set it aside till you need to use it for something? Maybe your main system dies, or do you suspect that you may indeed wanna run it 24/7 if you wish to make it a server in the future?

 

if its just occasional use then psu efficiency is pretty much the last thing you wanna worry about, if its 24/7 server use then psu is a valid concern cause the bills do add up eventually

 

Though 80+ gold and platinum arent that far apart in terms of efficiency, only like 2-3% compared to the jump from 80+ bronze to gold which are 5% diffs

 

If youd like peak efficiency then look for a used 600-700w platinum or better yet a used titanium rated psu (though these are quite abit rarer and usually come in the form of silent psus), new simply cant compete with the 50%+ discounts used offers and you can get significantly better units for the same price or the same unit at half price

[Beerzerker]

About 80% nominal wattage load (Normal use/conditions) is the standard for having a unit that will last - That and for it to be a quality unit too instead of something made by "Whiz-Bang" corp or some other crap.
It's true a PSU will have to deal with spikes in wattage demand at times, that's why you want the extra 20% as a cushion whenever this happens so the unit doesn't blow and take out the entire system..... Because a PSU can and probrably will do that if it goes. 

It's never a good idea to have one right at the edge all the time because it's like anything else - Push it too hard for too long and the inevitable will happen.

[NF-A12x25]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

The tier list here isn't being updated anymore but it includes power supplies that are still relevant today so you may want to take a look:

it is being updated, it’s just transitioned to its own site (cultists.network)

[venomtail]

1 hour ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Will it be running 24/7 or are you just gonna set it aside till you need to use it for something? Maybe your main system dies, or do you suspect that you may indeed wanna run it 24/7 if you wish to make it a server in the future?

 

if its just occasional use then psu efficiency is pretty much the last thing you wanna worry about, if its 24/7 server use then psu is a valid concern cause the bills do add up eventually

 

Though 80+ gold and platinum arent that far apart in terms of efficiency, only like 2-3% compared to the jump from 80+ bronze to gold which are 5% diffs

 

If youd like peak efficiency then look for a used 600-700w platinum or better yet a used titanium rated psu (though these are quite abit rarer and usually come in the form of silent psus), new simply cant compete with the 50%+ discounts used offers and you can get significantly better units for the same price or the same unit at half price

Within the first year of building? A spare gaming PC that might get used for several weeks throughout a year. After 5 years? I can see it becoming a family server or was it called Plex? I'll have time to research how to configure everything but yea, I'm hoping to build it once and still have it have some relevancy in my household many years later.

 

In terms of costs, this platinum and gold as the same price, just I'll have some 30W spare power vs peak watt consumption estimate. I've looked at titanium but cheapest is x2.5 more expensive than this, doesn't seem like it's worth it and used market PSU's are borderline non existent. A quick search provides me with one suspiciously cheap titanium PSU and a broken one for parts. That's it... seems like my only option is to buy new. I think on idle as a media server the platinum will extend a lead, no?

[Somerandomtechyboi]

53 minutes ago, venomtail said:

used market PSU's are borderline non existent. A quick search provides me with one suspiciously cheap titanium PSU and a broken one for parts. That's it... seems like my only option is to buy new. I think on idle as a media server the platinum will extend a lead, no?

You search on ebay or something? Cause prices on that are dogshit and noones selling used psus there

 

Look on local classifieds sites like craigslist, fb marketplace, gumtree, etc.

 

Here in indo they are very abundant quite literally everywhere, and dirt cheap too although you do have to ask for single rail for the listings that have tons of psus available (how i got a cwt 550w 80+ bronze unit for 12$, effective 504w cause 12v = 42a), theres even andyson 1200w platinums floating around 50$, 850w gold units floating around the 40-60$ range

 

As much as i dismiss this country for being a developing country then i start seeing used rx 6000 and rtx 30 series gpus going for hundreds of $ cheaper than what evay could ever offer, literally 3090s going for 600$, 6700xt going for 230$, etc. I guess its just at the lowest end of the used market (gpus worse than rx 470/570) prices are terrible. Then theres the abundance of dirt cheap used rams, used quality psus (if you know what you are looking for and not brainwashed by fucking tierlists and garbage specsheets and also bothering to look for reviews yourself), etc.

[venomtail]

14 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

You search on ebay or something? Cause prices on that are dogshit and noones selling used psus there

 

Look on local classifieds sites like craigslist, fb marketplace, gumtree, etc.

 

Here in indo they are very abundant quite literally everywhere, and dirt cheap too although you do have to ask for single rail for the listings that have tons of psus available (how i got a cwt 550w 80+ bronze unit for 12$, effective 504w cause 12v = 42a), theres even andyson 1200w platinums floating around 50$, 850w gold units floating around the 40-60$ range

 

As much as i dismiss this country for being a developing country then i start seeing used rx 6000 and rtx 30 series gpus going for hundreds of $ cheaper than what evay could ever offer, literally 3090s going for 600$, 6700xt going for 230$, etc. I guess its just at the lowest end of the used market (gpus worse than rx 470/570) prices are terrible. Then theres the abundance of dirt cheap used rams, used quality psus (if you know what you are looking for and not brainwashed by fucking tierlists and garbage specsheets and also bothering to look for reviews yourself), etc.

Yea, prices like that aren't a think here in the UK. Had a look at gumtree and fb marketplace, barely any offers. On fb marketplace, closes offer is as a used EVGA titanium for £140, a 60mile drive one way. Then 3 other listings, like £200 range, pretty much same as new PSU's.

 

Same for GPU's. Was thinking, maybe I'll cop a 6800/6900XT as everyone's saying used prices are slashed, until I remembered everyone's talking about the US and over here, new and even used barely stray from MSRP. Only hope is to win on a bit whilst everyone slept on it.