Cooling questions

[Bob__]

So I have a very hot i5-13600K

I have gotten recommended Tec cooling in both this forum and other places. I have also talked with IceGiant and they said I could maybe have one of their copper prototypes of the ProSiphon Elite but even that might not be able to dissipate the amount of heat that my CPU is generating. Currently, I am dailying an NHD15 and a OC that outputs 275W-325W @ 5.5GHZ. I've seen this chip hit 5.7 GHZ but it gets very hot (105C) in a matter of seconds. During this time it also throws out 375W to 400W. The people at IceGiant told me that their product may or might not work. Along with that a contact frame (Im already planning on getting one of these) they also recommended Tec (Thermoelectric) cooling. EK has one but they are not selling it. Cooler Master also has one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P4B2MJH/ref=twister_B0BSKXJFKN?_encoding=UTF8&th=1. Although it does not have the right mounting plates I can make them at my new school. (They have a huge fab). I have also been suggested aquarium coolers but I'm worried that the cooler itself and the water will not get enough heat transferred from the IPC because the block will only be room-ish temperatures instead of -10C. Lastly, I found some straight Tec coolers and was wondering if they were any good. As far as I can tell the actual Tec part of it is quite simple and easy. Just 2 wires positive and negative. I really don't know how to cool the other side of these things where it is outputting 400W of heat. Also what should I get the just Tec cooling part or a set like https://www.wellenp.com/air-to-liquid-series/wfw-400w-24-c-thermoelectric-cooler-assembly.html or just the cooler like 

https://www.amazon.com/TEC1-12726-Thermoelectric-Cooler-Peltier-Cooling/dp/B0759L6RVT. Ok I lied I just remembered, I thought of DIY'ing a massive rad but it seems like too much work for what it's worth.

 

TLDR: need some kind of insane cooler to cool 400W

 

Any help would be appreciated 

[Shimejii]

It just sounds like you are doing some pretty stupid OC stuff. 

 

You dont need to OC it to that high, that is beyond a reasonable amount and you will kill your CPU and Motherboard that way.

 

Turn down the OC to a reasonable amount, The massive rads pretty much wont do anything. These chips get REALLY hot, and if you are just pumping a ton more clock speed and voltage beyond whats already a hot chip, it wont do anything. 

 

You can get a 360mm AIO, and just tune the CPU a lot better and you will enjoy better results, or Just turn off the OC and see if you actually notice a difference in the games you play or the programs.  These CPUS are pretty much already clocked to around their limits without much wiggle room without exotic cooling.

[Hinjima]

10 minutes ago, Bob__ said:

So I have a very hot i5-13600K

I have gotten recommended Tec cooling in both this forum and other places. I have also talked with IceGiant and they said I could maybe have one of their copper prototypes of the ProSiphon Elite but even that might not be able to dissipate the amount of heat that my CPU is generating. Currently, I am dailying an NHD15 and a OC that outputs 275W-325W @ 5.5GHZ. I've seen this chip hit 5.7 GHZ but it gets very hot (105C) in a matter of seconds. During this time it also throws out 375W to 400W. The people at IceGiant told me that their product may or might not work. Along with that a contact frame (Im already planning on getting one of these) they also recommended Tec (Thermoelectric) cooling. EK has one but they are not selling it. Cooler Master also has one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P4B2MJH/ref=twister_B0BSKXJFKN?_encoding=UTF8&th=1. Although it does not have the right mounting plates I can make them at my new school. (They have a huge fab). I have also been suggested aquarium coolers but I'm worried that the cooler itself and the water will not get enough heat transferred from the IPC because the block will only be room-ish temperatures instead of -10C. Lastly, I found some straight Tec coolers and was wondering if they were any good. As far as I can tell the actual Tec part of it is quite simple and easy. Just 2 wires positive and negative. I really don't know how to cool the other side of these things where it is outputting 400W of heat. Also what should I get the just Tec cooling part or a set like https://www.wellenp.com/air-to-liquid-series/wfw-400w-24-c-thermoelectric-cooler-assembly.html or just the cooler like 

https://www.amazon.com/TEC1-12726-Thermoelectric-Cooler-Peltier-Cooling/dp/B0759L6RVT. Ok I lied I just remembered, I thought of DIY'ing a massive rad but it seems like too much work for what it's worth.

 

TLDR: need some kind of insane cooler to cool 400W

 

Any help would be appreciated 

Any particular reason you are trying to push the 13600k that much?  Seems a bit excessive.

[Electronics Wizardy]

A tec isn't pratical for cpu cooling, esp for these high power chips. If you really want sub ambient, refrigerant based solution are a much better(yet still impractical solution). There are data sheets like this one here for the details. Check digikey and similar for more options. But basically your using a whole lot of power and got lots more heat to deal with.

 

If you really want the best temps, get a chiller and a direct die water block. Otherwise the efficiency of the cpu is very low at that power and clock speed, so you spending a lot more power for very little performance.

 

 

Buying a 13900KS would probably bet a much better value compared to spending a similar of money on cooling.  Then you get a high clock speed out of the box, and a better chip, with more cores and more cache.

 

[Vishera]

21 minutes ago, Bob__ said:

I have gotten recommended Tec cooling in both this forum and other places. I have also talked with IceGiant and they said I could maybe have one of their copper prototypes of the ProSiphon Elite but even that might not be able to dissipate the amount of heat that my CPU is generating.

 

11 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

If you really want the best temps, get a chiller and a direct die water block. Otherwise the efficiency of the cpu is very low at that power and clock speed, so you spending a lot more power for very little performance.

As i said in the previous thread: I think a chiller would be a lot better than a tec.

 

19 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

It just sounds like you are doing some pretty stupid OC stuff. 

 

You dont need to OC it to that high, that is beyond a reasonable amount and you will kill your CPU and Motherboard that way.

 

Turn down the OC to a reasonable amount, The massive rads pretty much wont do anything. These chips get REALLY hot, and if you are just pumping a ton more clock speed and voltage beyond whats already a hot chip, it wont do anything. 

 

You can get a 360mm AIO, and just tune the CPU a lot better and you will enjoy better results, or Just turn off the OC and see if you actually notice a difference in the games you play or the programs.  These CPUS are pretty much already clocked to around their limits without much wiggle room without exotic cooling.

Overclocking is fun, for some people it's a hobby (myself included)

 

[Bob__]

21 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

It just sounds like you are doing some pretty stupid OC stuff. 

 

You dont need to OC it to that high, that is beyond a reasonable amount and you will kill your CPU and Motherboard that way.

 

Turn down the OC to a reasonable amount, The massive rads pretty much wont do anything. These chips get REALLY hot, and if you are just pumping a ton more clock speed and voltage beyond whats already a hot chip, it wont do anything. 

 

You can get a 360mm AIO, and just tune the CPU a lot better and you will enjoy better results, or Just turn off the OC and see if you actually notice a difference in the games you play or the programs.  These CPUS are pretty much already clocked to around their limits without much wiggle room without exotic cooling.

I get about 15% increases so im pretty happy with that as for the stupidness of the OC I know but I enjoy pushing these things to their limits and the CPU and Mobo should be fine as I have all the protections on. I have no doubts that the OC wont help the lifespan of the chip but it shouldn't kill it either.

[Bob__]

16 minutes ago, Hinjima said:

Any particular reason you are trying to push the 13600k that much?  Seems a bit excessive.

Just tryna have fun with it

[Bob__]

18 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

A tec isn't pratical for cpu cooling, esp for these high power chips. If you really want sub ambient, refrigerant based solution are a much better(yet still impractical solution). There are data sheets like this one here for the details. Check digikey and similar for more options. But basically your using a whole lot of power and got lots more heat to deal with.

 

If you really want the best temps, get a chiller and a direct die water block. Otherwise the efficiency of the cpu is very low at that power and clock speed, so you spending a lot more power for very little performance.

 

 

Buying a 13900KS would probably bet a much better value compared to spending a similar of money on cooling.  Then you get a high clock speed out of the box, and a better chip, with more cores and more cache.

 

Ok also I dont pay for power Im 14

[Bob__]

3 minutes ago, Vishera said:

As i said in the previous thread: I think a chiller would be a lot better than a tec.

 

yeah im starting to realize that. Seems like way less hassle for similar performance

[Bob__]

Do hold-down plates work for delidded CPUs?

[Bob__]

27 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

hot chip, it wont do anything. 

it doesnt thermal throttle (105 C) for about 5 minutes at full load (cinebench) and I got a meaningful increase out of the box

[Shimejii]

9 minutes ago, Vishera said:

 

As i said in the previous thread: I think a chiller would be a lot better than a tec.

 

Overclocking is fun, for some people it's a hobby (myself included)

 

Does not mean its not dumb when its to a point in which it is making hardware perform worse or potentially fry itself. I always push for people to be mindful and take care of their hardware, not to treat it as disposable stuff like some youtubers do. They end up having to buy a new cpu, or in this case OP's parents, and i would instill making sure you take care of the things you have.

 

OC stuff for CPUS has not really been a thing for a few years now beyond a few 100 mhz. These CPUS are already running at their redline, and they are already VERY hot with the amount of voltages they have been requiring to run at the very high speeds. Its more about voltage tuning and seeing at what voltages a CPU can run stable so its not an instant furnace.  Especially i5, they have been pretty heavily locked down. There is some wiggle room, but its getting much harder to do.

8 minutes ago, Bob__ said:

I get about 15% increases so im pretty happy with that as for the stupidness of the OC I know but I enjoy pushing these things to their limits and the CPU and Mobo should be fine as I have all the protections on. I have no doubts that the OC wont help the lifespan of the chip but it shouldn't kill it either.

that 15%, where and what are you seeing the uplift? In a certain program or game?

 

It will kill the CPU if you are actually pulling 300w+ through the CPU eventually. I would be surprised if its actually pulling that much or if something is not being accurate for reporting. A lot of XOC overclockers tend to go through quite a few CPUS because they simply just go beyond their capabilities in testing. You arent pushing NEARLY that voltage since thats usually Ln2 Cooling, but you are certainly pushing the limits on air cooling and such. Again i would be mindful, Test to see at what point you can get it to be more easier to cool. Otherwise there really isnt much you can do, trying to dissipate that much heat just isnt simple. 

 

3 minutes ago, Bob__ said:

it doesnt thermal throttle (105 C) for about 5 minutes at full load (cinebench) and I got a meaningful increase out of the box

Cinnebench does not matter worth a damn IMO. Does it actually benefit you in games? If it doesnt do anything much, i would say turn it off while you game.

[Bob__]

21 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Buying a 13900KS would probably bet a much better value compared to spending a similar of money on cooling.  Then you get a high clock speed out of the box, and a better chip, with more cores and more cache.

 

you are probably right and they are getting way cheaper in the used spaces but how the holy hell and I supposed to cool that thing and OC it too. I might have to UNDERCLOCK it with the power those things generate out of the box

maybe this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175702968637?epid=10058453216&hash=item28e8b6893d:g:vlsAAOSwMeJkSKmP&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4L5Hu2Eo29B8tg2qNGP4oWDqe44kJvUIimUQ0uMWgFnQwyznCx34DuRMn38nxN7Gp8LmoPK0dZIzPKWFnsKZJ1QQCWSeLasb6VrcNu76TDbQ5TgfwfCc%2BaADI7vrmWBlNtEjD2uHTNgYmoRF56X9iL5VMiuPUZ4XoBBbZjIVhbgkTPCXxkXnxFo9cMb3Pi%2BhfDDsbyU2BejrzemDp6IA8PJxA4RIX8ObFIL8WIFB78V7SHYCNlY%2BexOWWhZCFRgsgXm8TPeFvSYdiOeUE5umPepgkXJr%2BAoUXXATs8Ej7LwH|tkp%3ABk9SR5jH2Yf4YQ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175702324121?epid=15055636619&hash=item28e8acb399:g:AAAAAOSwzjxkR~xd&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwA%2Bs9%2Bp%2F8HLW8915mKxt%2Fvx67GlGoW0drXrSNJ2aG6znF15gaLvB5Bn60skX3L6UdTZK9FRjHcozRxBJU9mafwpgL24HYAQ7zjtjtEzU7Tv0V5%2B%2FxZ2Sk5N646LfFre2KZn8mJEe4NWBJvOHMrCVYIEtw8dpp2lMwNJrCl3HV%2FL%2BXyLFM%2FVR8pJMGVvhm0cQ0Adma%2Ftos2yieMXjG%2F6bV5kb7FzgQHPfWahAiHt1K4cYRITqVTujt2ycQJ9WGIjWtA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR5jH2Yf4YQ

[Bob__]

4 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

Does not mean its not dumb when its to a point in which it is making hardware perform worse or potentially fry itself.

same thing as before I am careful when OC'ing and I pay for all my computer parts myself the chip takes a while to thermal throttle and proforms about 15% better than out of the box.

[Bob__]

6 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

that 15%, where and what are you seeing the uplift? In a certain program or game?

its helpful for folding and mining both things I do

[Bob__]

6 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

Cinnebench does not matter worth a damn IMO. Does it actually benefit you in games? If it doesnt do anything much, i would say turn it off while you game.

again I use it for things outside of games I appreciate your concern for my hardware but the extra power is ligitamitally being used as my CPU is at 100% usage both folding and mining.

[Bob__]

7 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

It will kill the CPU if you are actually pulling 300w+ through the CPU eventually. I would be surprised if its actually pulling that much or if something is not being accurate for reporting. A lot of XOC overclockers tend to go through quite a few CPUS because they simply just go beyond their capabilities in testing. You arent pushing NEARLY that voltage since thats usually Ln2 Cooling, but you are certainly pushing the limits on air cooling and such. Again i would be mindful, Test to see at what point you can get it to be more easier to cool. Otherwise there really isnt much you can do, trying to dissipate that much heat just isnt simple. 

 

I can show you test pictures if you don't believe me. I have confirmed it using multiple monitoring programs too. There are some from older OC's tho so they are quite a but lower

iCloud Photos (1).zip

[Vishera]

10 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

Does not mean its not dumb when its to a point in which it is making hardware perform worse or potentially fry itself.

The risk is part of the thrill 

Just like racing cars and pushing them to the max...

12 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

OC stuff for CPUS has not really been a thing for a few years now beyond a few 100 mhz. These CPUS are already running at their redline, and they are already VERY hot with the amount of voltages they have been requiring to run at the very high speeds.

You are very wrong...

I overclocked my 5700X, the performance is a lot better than stock and i still have headroom for more:

 

Stock 5700X for comparison:

[Vishera]

20 minutes ago, Bob__ said:

you are probably right and they are getting way cheaper in the used spaces but how the holy hell and I supposed to cool that thing and OC it too. I might have to UNDERCLOCK it with the power those things generate out of the box

With a chiller you can overclock the 13900KS to 6GHZ easily:

[Bob__]

4 minutes ago, Vishera said:

The risk is part of the thrill 

Just like racing cars and pushing them to the max...

You are very wrong...

I overclocked my 5700X, the performance is a lot better than stock and i still have headroom for more:

 

Stock 5700X for comparison:

yeah ig I got a bad CPU because it was preforming about 500 lower than the internets so I OC'ed it to the point where it was 2k times better than the internets 26500

[Bob__]

1 minute ago, Vishera said:

With a chiller you can overclock the 13900KS to 6GHZ easily:

who did this and how I would like some context

[Vishera]

1 minute ago, Bob__ said:

who did this and how I would like some context

bl4ckdot from hwbot:

https://hwbot.org/submission/5195881_bl4ckdot_cinebench___r23_multi_core_with_benchmate_core_i9_13900ks_45446_cb

[Bob__]

Just now, Vishera said:

bl4ckdot from hwbot:

https://hwbot.org/submission/5195881_bl4ckdot_cinebench___r23_multi_core_with_benchmate_core_i9_13900ks_45446_cb

thanks how are the ebay processors I really don't want to have to deal with delidding and this seems OK except maybe the one that says it goes to only 2GHZ

[Vishera]

10 minutes ago, Bob__ said:

thanks how are the ebay processors I really don't want to have to deal with delidding and this seems OK except maybe the one that says it goes to only 2GHZ

I wouldn't touch them.

And considering that they used liquid metal at some point you will need to delid and replace that liquid metal.

I would just buy a normal new or used chip, use a contact frame and cool it with a chiller.

[Bob__]

17 minutes ago, Bob__ said:

yeah ig I got a bad CPU because it was preforming about 500 lower than the internets so I OC'ed it to the point where it was 2k times better than the internets 26500

just ran it on my less spicy OC and it got 25633