How can I make it go faster

[Bob__]

I have the build posted below. I had some issues with this chip before and those were solved by some people on this forum suggesting that I undervolt my chip. I went from peak voltages of 1.7V to 1.8V to about 1.475V. My wattage also went down to 325W. How can I push this chip harder while not killing it?

 

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/j8pQrD

CPU: Intel Core i5-13600K 3.5 GHz 14-Core Processor  ($304.80 @ Newegg) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15S chromax.black 82.51 CFM CPU Cooler  ($109.95 @ Amazon) 
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z690-A WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard  ($225.99 @ Amazon) 
Memory: Kingston FURY Beast 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-5200 CL40 Memory  ($125.38 @ Amazon) 
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Storage: Western Digital Blue 4 TB 3.5" 5400 RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($67.98 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Western Digital Blue 4 TB 3.5" 5400 RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($67.98 @ Amazon) 
Case: Phanteks Eclipse G360A ATX Mid Tower Case  ($99.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 G6 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($205.99 @ EVGA) 
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 11 Home OEM - DVD 64-bit  ($117.98 @ Other World Computing) 
Monitor: Acer CBA242Y BIR 23.8" 1920 x 1080 75 Hz Monitor  ($126.78 @ Amazon) 
Monitor: Acer CBA242Y BIR 23.8" 1920 x 1080 75 Hz Monitor  ($126.78 @ Amazon) 
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Total: $1684.58
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[YoungBlade]

What is your use-case? If you're running this chip without a graphics card, and you're hoping to do any gaming, your first step is to overclock the iGPU. Your second step is to realize that the overclock hasn't helped much and that you need to invest in a dedicated graphics card.

 

You're not going to get big gains with overclocking these days. AMD and Intel have pushed both of their chips to the limit to compete with one another. It isn't like the old days where 20%, 40%, or even 80% gains on CPU OC were possible. The 13600K is the best candidate for overclocking of the current generation, as you can get a meaningful-ish boost in core frequencies, but once you get about 5.3-5.5 all-core on the P-cores, and 4.1-4.3GHz on the E-cores, you've in all likelihood hit the max unless you have a golden chip. You can mess with doing a per-core OC, with higher OC values when using fewer cores, but it won't help much in most real-world uses.

[Bob__]

10 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

What is your use-case? If you're running this chip without a graphics card, and you're hoping to do any gaming, your first step is to overclock the iGPU. Your second step is to realize that the overclock hasn't helped much and that you need to invest in a dedicated graphics card.

 

You're not going to get big gains with overclocking these days. AMD and Intel have pushed both of their chips to the limit to compete with one another. It isn't like the old days where 20%, 40%, or even 80% gains on CPU OC were possible. The 13600K is the best candidate for overclocking of the current generation, as you can get a meaningful-ish boost in core frequencies, but once you get about 5.3-5.5 all-core on the P-cores, and 4.1-4.3GHz on the E-cores, you've in all likelihood hit the max unless you have a golden chip. You can mess with doing a per-core OC, with higher OC values when using fewer cores, but it won't help much in most real-world uses.

Im just trying to make it go as fast as possible for the best cinebench score I have no real use for it but I still just want to see how far I can push it. Also I am running 5.8 on the P core and 4.6 on the E cores and have seen decent gains in performance. 

[Bob__]

10 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

What is your use-case? If you're running this chip without a graphics card, and you're hoping to do any gaming, your first step is to overclock the iGPU. Your second step is to realize that the overclock hasn't helped much and that you need to invest in a dedicated graphics card.

 

You're not going to get big gains with overclocking these days. AMD and Intel have pushed both of their chips to the limit to compete with one another. It isn't like the old days where 20%, 40%, or even 80% gains on CPU OC were possible. The 13600K is the best candidate for overclocking of the current generation, as you can get a meaningful-ish boost in core frequencies, but once you get about 5.3-5.5 all-core on the P-cores, and 4.1-4.3GHz on the E-cores, you've in all likelihood hit the max unless you have a golden chip. You can mess with doing a per-core OC, with higher OC values when using fewer cores, but it won't help much in most real-world uses.

Also one other question I have is that why even after making it so much faster are my cinebench scores still kind of slow. I am getting right about 23000.

[RONOTHAN##]

9 minutes ago, Bob__ said:

Also one other question I have is that why even after making it so much faster are my cinebench scores still kind of slow. I am getting right about 23000.

23000 is just roughly what you're doing. It sounds more like you're thermal throttling than anything. 

[YoungBlade]

7 minutes ago, Bob__ said:

Also one other question I have is that why even after making it so much faster are my cinebench scores still kind of slow. I am getting right about 23000.

That doesn't make any sense to me - 23000 is about what a 13600K should get out of the box for Cinebench R23. It sounds like you might still be thermal throttling - those OC numbers are pretty intense and I'm wondering if you're throttling to the point that you aren't actually achieving those frequencies. What software have you used to validate that the overclock is actually working when you run Cinebench? HWInfo64? OCCT?

[Bob__]

2 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

23000 is just roughly what you're doing. It sounds more like you're thermal throttling than anything. 

So what should I do?

[RONOTHAN##]

1 minute ago, Bob__ said:

So what should I do?

Run HWInfo64 while doing the R23 pull, and record a log during it. Send us the log so we can see what all the sensors are reporting much easier than just asking you to check each one individually. 

[Bob__]

 

14 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Run HWInfo64 while doing the R23 pull, and record a log during it. Send us the log so we can see what all the sensors are reporting much easier than just asking you to check each one individually. 

 

17 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

That doesn't make any sense to me - 23000 is about what a 13600K should get out of the box for Cinebench R23. It sounds like you might still be thermal throttling - those OC numbers are pretty intense and I'm wondering if you're throttling to the point that you aren't actually achieving those frequencies. What software have you used to validate that the overclock is actually working when you run Cinebench? HWInfo64? OCCT?

HWMonitor.txt

[unclewebb]

@Bob__

Use HWINFO. When Cinebench is running, you are either thermal throttling or power limit throttling. What are your turbo power limits set to?

[RONOTHAN##]

7 minutes ago, Bob__ said:

 

 

HWMonitor.txt 206.66 kB · 2 downloads

Not the file I was talking about. Download HWInfo, open it in sensors only mode, and in the bottom right there will be a button that says "start logging." Click that, run Cinebench, click it again to stop logging, and send that log file. It should be a CSV file if you did it correctly. 

[Bob__]

15 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Not the file I was talking about. Download HWInfo, open it in sensors only mode, and in the bottom right there will be a button that says "start logging." Click that, run Cinebench, click it again to stop logging, and send that log file. It should be a CSV file if you did it correctly. 

Is this better

CinebenchRun2.CSV CinebenchRun1.CSV CinebenchRun3.CSV

[RONOTHAN##]

11 minutes ago, Bob__ said:

Is this better

CinebenchRun2.CSV 102.2 kB · 0 downloads CinebenchRun1.CSV 87.16 kB · 0 downloads CinebenchRun3.CSV 83.59 kB · 0 downloads

Yeah, that's what I wanted. 

 

You're thermal throttling. 

Spoiler

You want to keep the chip under 100C to prevent that from happening. You may be at 5.8GHz for the ratio set in BIOS and at idle, but under load you drop to 4GHz. 

Spoiler

 

You need to use less voltage. It looks like you're trying to run LLC Level 1 or 2 and 1.5V set in BIOS. That's just way too much voltage for one of these chips. If your chip is capable of 5.8GHz in R23, you should be able to do that with Level 4 LLC (IIRC this is the optimal setting for that board, either that or Level 5), maxed out switching frequency, and 1.4-1.45V set (1.3V running). You need to rethink your voltage settings for this chip. Also having some VDroop is a good thing, it helps improve the voltage regulation of the motherboard. It may be averaging 1.5V right now, but there are probably nanosecond dips down to 1.3V or lower that are tanking your stability at 5.8GHz. More VDroop usually means the closer the nanosecond dips are to the average voltage up until a point, hence the recommendation to use Level 4 LLC. 

[Bob__]

13 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Yeah, that's what I wanted. 

 

You're thermal throttling. 

  Reveal hidden contents

You want to keep the chip under 100C to prevent that from happening. You may be at 5.8GHz for the ratio set in BIOS and at idle, but under load you drop to 4GHz. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

You need to use less voltage. It looks like you're trying to run LLC Level 1 or 2 and 1.5V set in BIOS. That's just way too much voltage for one of these chips. If your chip is capable of 5.8GHz in R23, you should be able to do that with Level 4 LLC (IIRC this is the optimal setting for that board, either that or Level 5), maxed out switching frequency, and 1.4-1.45V set (1.3V running). You need to rethink your voltage settings for this chip. Also having some VDroop is a good thing, it helps improve the voltage regulation of the motherboard. It may be averaging 1.5V right now, but there are probably nanosecond dips down to 1.3V or lower that are tanking your stability at 5.8GHz. More VDroop usually means the closer the nanosecond dips are to the average voltage up until a point, hence the recommendation to use Level 4 LLC. 

Whats LLC level and how do I change it

[RONOTHAN##]

13 minutes ago, Bob__ said:

Whats LLC level and how do I change it

Load Line Calibration. It affects the amount the voltage drops when the CPU goes under load (with no LLC the average voltage will go from say 1.4V at idle to 1.1V under full load in something like Cinebench). 

 

Slightly more detailed off-memory explanation if you care to read it:

Spoiler

Because of the way buck converters (the type of circuit that motherboard VRMs are based on) work, when you pull varying amounts of current for a certain duty cycle (the value that sets the output voltage) the output voltage will change inversely to the amount of current (as current goes up, voltage goes down, and vice versa). The voltage regulator can compensate for this type of voltage drop to a certain degree by taking into account the resistance of the power plane. This calculation for adjusting the amount of droop is called Load Line Calibration, and the different levels for it result in different resistances for the calculation. 

 

There is a setting to change this in the BIOS. Head to the overclocking menu and find the option labeled DigitALL power or something like that (it'll be right above the VCore setting if I remember MSI's BIOS from memory). In there the first option should be the VCore LLC, change that setting to 5. Slightly lower there should be the VCore switching frequency, and that board is one of the few modern motherboards that benefits from it being set at the highest value you can (this will decrease VRM efficiency, but for a 13600K that shouldn't really cause a problem), so max that out while you're in there. 

 

If you want a more detailed explanation of what I'm talking about as well as a numbers to back up that level 5 is the best claim, check out this video:

 

If you want a better explanation of what to look for in LLC, watch this later video for the first ~5 minutes as it has a much better practical explanation of what to look for in LLC settings when looking at the oscilloscope testing:

 

[Bob__]

3 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Load Line Calibration. It affects the amount the voltage drops when the CPU goes under load (with no LLC the average voltage will go from say 1.4V at idle to 1.1V under full load in something like Cinebench). 

 

Slightly more detailed off-memory explanation if you care to read it:

  Reveal hidden contents

Because of the way buck converters (the type of circuit that motherboard VRMs are based on) work, when you pull varying amounts of current for a certain duty cycle (the value that sets the output voltage) the output voltage will change inversely to the amount of current (as current goes up, voltage goes down, and vice versa). The voltage regulator can compensate for this type of voltage drop to a certain degree by taking into account the resistance of the power plane. This calculation for adjusting the amount of droop is called Load Line Calibration, and the different levels for it result in different resistances for the calculation. 

 

There is a setting to change this in the BIOS. Head to the overclocking menu and find the option labeled DigitALL power or something like that (it'll be right above the VCore setting if I remember MSI's BIOS from memory). In there the first option should be the VCore LLC, change that setting to 5. Slightly lower there should be the VCore switching frequency, and that board is one of the few modern motherboards that benefits from it being set at the highest value you can (this will decrease VRM efficiency, but for a 13600K that shouldn't really cause a problem), so max that out while you're in there. 

 

If you want a more detailed explanation of what I'm talking about as well as a numbers to back up that level 5 is the best claim, check out this video:

 

If you want a better explanation of what to look for in LLC, watch this later video for the first ~5 minutes as it has a much better practical explanation of what to look for in LLC settings when looking at the oscilloscope testing:

 

I changed the LLC level but anything over 2 crashes and I am using 1.45V what should I do now?

[RONOTHAN##]

Just now, Bob__ said:

I changed the LLC level but anything over 2 crashes and I am using 1.45V what should I do now?

Your chip likely can't do 5.8GHz then, at least on the amount of cooling you're using. Lower the frequency to 5.7GHz and 4.5GHz on the E cores and try again. 

[Bob__]

I added some voltage and its working fine. Im stresstesting it right now.

[YoungBlade]

4 hours ago, Bob__ said:

I added some voltage and its working fine. Im stresstesting it right now.

But are you actually maintaining those frequencies? Adding voltage is just going to make the CPU run even hotter, which is probably going to make it throttle even harder.

 

I think your OC is not realistic with your current cooling solution. Try something more typical for a 13600K like 5.4GHz on the P cores and possibly combine that with an undervolt and you can probably see noticeably better performance because you'll be using significantly less power and thus running much cooler.

[spaghet rat]

bro was really drawing 650w lmao (i know bob irl)

[-rascal-]

19 minutes ago, McrP87 said:

bro was really drawing 650w lmao (i know bob irl)

 

The CPU alone or the total system power draw?
No way the CPU alone is pulling 650W.

 

CPU with stock Turbo behavior is rated up to 181W.

HWiNFO logging showed a max of ~270W, despite thermal throttling -- which makes sense.

 

 

@Bob__ All your P-Cores and E-Cores are thermal throttling hard.

As soon a Cinebench starts, in a matter of seconds, the P-Core frequency tanks from 5.8 GHz, down to 4.4 GHz.

Then by the second, it continues to tank, 4.2 GHz --> 3.9 GHz --> 3.7 GHz

[spaghet rat]

2 hours ago, -rascal- said:

 

The CPU alone or the total system power draw?
No way the CPU alone is pulling 650W.

 

CPU with stock Turbo behavior is rated up to 181W.

HWiNFO logging showed a max of ~270W, despite thermal throttling -- which makes sense.

 

 

@Bob__ All your P-Cores and E-Cores are thermal throttling hard.

As soon a Cinebench starts, in a matter of seconds, the P-Core frequency tanks from 5.8 GHz, down to 4.4 GHz.

Then by the second, it continues to tank, 4.2 GHz --> 3.9 GHz --> 3.7 GHz

he was pulling 325 to like 500 i think on cpu only and it was running slower than a school chromebook at one point ( i5 was running at 1.5 ghz chromebooks run at 2 ghz

[spaghet rat]

14 hours ago, -rascal- said:

 

The CPU alone or the total system power draw?
No way the CPU alone is pulling 650W.

 

CPU with stock Turbo behavior is rated up to 181W.

HWiNFO logging showed a max of ~270W, despite thermal throttling -- which makes sense.

 

 

@Bob__ All your P-Cores and E-Cores are thermal throttling hard.

As soon a Cinebench starts, in a matter of seconds, the P-Core frequency tanks from 5.8 GHz, down to 4.4 GHz.

Then by the second, it continues to tank, 4.2 GHz --> 3.9 GHz --> 3.7 GHz

now hes pulling 700w on the cpu

[Bob__]

13 hours ago, -rascal- said:

 

The CPU alone or the total system power draw?
No way the CPU alone is pulling 650W.

 

CPU with stock Turbo behavior is rated up to 181W.

HWiNFO logging showed a max of ~270W, despite thermal throttling -- which makes sense.

 

 

@Bob__ All your P-Cores and E-Cores are thermal throttling hard.

As soon a Cinebench starts, in a matter of seconds, the P-Core frequency tanks from 5.8 GHz, down to 4.4 GHz.

Then by the second, it continues to tank, 4.2 GHz --> 3.9 GHz --> 3.7 GHz

got it stable at 5.5 275W but at a point this was it 700W

[Bob__]

14 hours ago, -rascal- said:

 

The CPU alone or the total system power draw?
No way the CPU alone is pulling 650W.

 

CPU with stock Turbo behavior is rated up to 181W.

HWiNFO logging showed a max of ~270W, despite thermal throttling -- which makes sense.

 

 

@Bob__ All your P-Cores and E-Cores are thermal throttling hard.

As soon a Cinebench starts, in a matter of seconds, the P-Core frequency tanks from 5.8 GHz, down to 4.4 GHz.

Then by the second, it continues to tank, 4.2 GHz --> 3.9 GHz --> 3.7 GHz