Upgrade Time? (New Build)

[WallacEngineering]

Well the Ryzen 7 7800X3D is now out and as expected its 3D V-Cache is amazing just like last generation was.

 

Ive been considering upgrading for some time now - I have a 3440x1440p Ultrawide Monitor. When I first built my current system (Ryzen 3700X + RX 5700-XT Red Devil) it played most games at native resolution on high settings around 80-90 FPS. Not perfect but plenty reasonable, I would just turn down a few less important settings to medium to eek out a few more FPS whenever necessary.

 

However then I started playing MUCH more demanding games - Cyberpunk 2077, Red Dead Redemption 2, Star Citizen, so on...

 

While Star Citizen doesn't really count, Red Dead Redemption 2 really showed me what next-generation games were demanding and oh boy, my system did not fair very well with this game. I wanted to stay on native resolution so I ended up dropping most settings to medium with a few less important settings set to low in order to get an average of around 80 FPS with drops in demanding areas down to the upper 60's. Its clear the RX 5700-XT just won't cut it at this resolution on newer games.

 

I want to push 120+ FPS on High Settings with maybe one or two important settings cranked to Ultra such as textures. I love the 3440x1440p Ultrawide experience and don't really feel a need to change resolution, my Monitor is simply GORGEOUS.

 

With the fact that the AMD Radeon RX 7900-XT has just had a drop in price of $100, I now feel it is a decent value, although still not great, its just a feasible option now.

 

So then the plan would be:

 

CPU: Ryzen 7 7800X3D

GPU Radeon RX 7900-XT

RAM: 32GB (16GB x 2) Unknown Speed, new to DDR5, need advice

Mobo: High-Quality B650 Maybe?

Storage: 1TB NVME Boot Drive + 2 TB M.2 Gaming SSD + 2TB SATA SSD Long-Term Storage.

PSU: Might just keep my current 850-Watt Platinum and swap it in, why not? Will handle it just fine.

 

Im a fan of Enthusiast-Level Air Cooling. Will probably run Noctua D-15, upgraded case fans, high-airflow case, I enjoy the fact I can get basically the same the cooling performance of a 280mm AIO if you set up air cooling correctly.

 

Im wondering if it would be worthwhile to shave down the CPU IHS, especially as the 3D V-Cache chips are WAY more sensitive to temperature than normal Ryzen 7000 chips.

 

Im also wondering if I should just hold off on the build all together and wait for Black Friday 2023. See the thing is - my system is satisfactory still - BARELY in my opinion.

 

My current GPU is also physically damaged (static through GPU audio, goes away when you plug in a headset, also refuses to run at anything higher than PCI-E 3.0 x 4 mode. PC was being transported when a car accident happened - replaced mobo but this was when gpu prices were completely insane and my 5700-XT was selling for $1000).

 

So Im really on the fence here. I know that realistically this build would be extremely expensive, on the order of around $3000 if I were to buy all components brand new. But since I am sticking to the 3440x1440 resolution I should be very well set up for possibly up to 10 years of extremely high performance.

 

So should I hold off? Should I go ahead and start building? Suggestions for parts? Any opinions you may have, feel free to share. Unlikely to go Intel-Nvidia.

 

EDIT:

If you want to see just how badly my system got mangled in the accident, this is what Star Citizen sounded like the next time I started it up. I plugged in a headset and all of this weird audio just disappeared, and there was constant crashing until I replaced the Motherboard.

 

These days the system runs just fine, some audio static does persist when using audio over DisplayPort, and the GPU is stuck at PCI-E 3.0 x 4 mode, but it IS running and gaming just fine, but any overclocking becomes unstable immediately so I do not overclock the GPU anymore:

 

 

[eggowlred]

Your budget?

[WallacEngineering]

6 minutes ago, eggowlred said:

Your budget?

The budget would be around the $2500-$3000 mark absolute maximum (USA)

[eggowlred]

2 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

The budget would be around the $2500-$3000 mark absolute maximum (USA)

Any parts you have in you previous build that will be used

[WallacEngineering]

Just now, eggowlred said:

Any parts you have that will be used

As you can see in the OP my PSU is very powerful and should be fine to be re-used. I could also re-use my Phanteks P500A case but I would rather try something new. Storage and main components will probably all be sold off for very cheap locally. I don't like asking high prices when Im the one building a new PC, doesn't seem fair to me.

[eggowlred]

9 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

As you can see in the OP my PSU is very powerful and should be fine to be re-used. I could also re-use my Phanteks P500A case but I would rather try something new. Storage and main components will probably all be sold off for very cheap locally. I don't like asking high prices when Im the one building a new PC, doesn't seem fair to me.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/xjbj6r this has a better motherboard chipset better gpu 6000 cl 30 ram 8tb of storage on 4 NVMe drives new case with good airflow

[dizmo]

I'd personally see if you can find a 5000 series CPU. No need to upgrade the platform entirely as of yet, and you'll still see a nice boost in performance.

Grab a used one, enjoy the little bit of warranty left to make sure it's not DOA (or use eBay as they have you covered).

 

Your GPU is likely the bottleneck more than anything here, and that's what I'd upgrade.

 

As for your storage idea, why are you going with a SATA drive? Did you find one that's actually cheaper? Most of the time they're the same price, or within $10 of a faster drive. Do you need 1TB for a boot drive? I know the price differences aren't massive, but even 512GB is a ton of space for my boot drive.

 

As for the Black Friday buys, you'll save money as long as you don't really care what exactly you're getting. If you decide you want a very specific part, I wouldn't bother waiting.

[eggowlred]

11 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

As you can see in the OP my PSU is very powerful and should be fine to be re-used. I could also re-use my Phanteks P500A case but I would rather try something new. Storage and main components will probably all be sold off for very cheap locally. I don't like asking high prices when Im the one building a new PC, doesn't seem fair to me.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/jB4C78 You can get a 4090 with same specs but 6tb of storage from 3 ssd the 980 pro being your boot drive with a mid range b650 motherboard chipset

[WallacEngineering]

6 minutes ago, eggowlred said:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/xjbj6r this has a better motherboard chipset better gpu 6000 cl 30 ram 8tb of storage on 4 NVMe drives new case with good airflow

Thanks for that . I will consider certain things from this list however I don't really feel the need to step up to the XTX GPU. The 7900-XT can already push well over 100 FPS at absolutely maxed out settings on 3440x1440 resolution. Its kind of a monster for $200 less. Ill have to think on it:

 

[WallacEngineering]

8 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I'd personally see if you can find a 5000 series CPU. No need to upgrade the platform entirely as of yet, and you'll still see a nice boost in performance.

Grab a used one, enjoy the little bit of warranty left to make sure it's not DOA (or use eBay as they have you covered).

 

Your GPU is likely the bottleneck more than anything here, and that's what I'd upgrade.

 

As for your storage idea, why are you going with a SATA drive? Did you find one that's actually cheaper? Most of the time they're the same price, or within $10 of a faster drive. Do you need 1TB for a boot drive? I know the price differences aren't massive, but even 512GB is a ton of space for my boot drive.

 

As for the Black Friday buys, you'll save money as long as you don't really care what exactly you're getting. If you decide you want a very specific part, I wouldn't bother waiting.

This would be a way to save a massive amount of money sure but Im not really hurting. Great idea for anyone hunting for a bargain tho, if you can score a 5800X3D for a good price then ur pretty much set. Im just ready for the next generation.

 

The one thing I will admit that I hate is the super-thick IHS. I can't stand that Ryzen 7000 requires modification for max performance, its so stupid. Worst Idea AMD has ever had and to save what? Like $100 on a new system, lol

[eggowlred]

18 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Thanks for that . I will consider certain things from this list however I don't really feel the need to step up to the XTX GPU. The 7900-XT can already push well over 100 FPS at absolutely maxed out settings on 3440x1440 resolution. Its kind of a monster for $200 less. Ill have to think on it:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/YqXHPX You do get 14tb out of 4 nvme ssds and from what I saw on a non ultrawide 1440p cyberpunk 2077 is the only game that did not pull 120 fps with max settings

[WallacEngineering]

13 minutes ago, eggowlred said:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/YqXHPX You do get 14tb out of 4 nvme ssds and from what I saw on a non ultrawide 1440p cyberpunk 2077 is the only game that did not pull 120 fps with max settings

 

Ya true that, I see a number of ways I could save some cash, also @dizmohas a good point about just going 100% M.2 Drives. I hadn't realized they are now so cheap that SATA is basically useless lol.

 

I could end up with a very powerful build for more like $2000 which would be quite nice, I wouldn't even hesitate to spend that much on a very good build. I just have to keep in mind that I need a couple hundred $$$ for accessories such as case fans, LED lights, maybe a new mouse.

 

Also thinking about selling my current monitor and getting a newer one. I made the mistake of getting a NVIDIA G-Sync model thinking that AMD's Freesync would be compatible because AMD is more "open" but that wasn't the case, I have never been able to turn on V-Sync and this monitor maxes out at 90Hz with overclocking, so I was thinking sell it and get a more modern 144 or 165Hz display.

 

To be honest I would NEVER need more than 144Hz anyways, I can barely even feel the difference between 90-ish FPS and 144 FPS, so I could hold on to the new monitor till it completely burns out lol.

 

On another note, this is why I feel the XTX is simply unnecessary for me. Very demanding games run 100 FPS at absolute max settings on the 7900-XT, even slightly less demanding games like these shooters push well over 150 FPS on maxed settings. Also there is the fact that Radeon cards tend to get more performance as they age with better drivers. Its basically a slightly better 4070-Ti for the same price, especially considering I don't care about Ray Tracing whatsoever.

 

[WallacEngineering]

1 hour ago, eggowlred said:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/YqXHPX You do get 14tb out of 4 nvme ssds and from what I saw on a non ultrawide 1440p cyberpunk 2077 is the only game that did not pull 120 fps with max settings

Check out this list I just made to save some cash here and there, the only issue is that it does NOT include the $450 MSRP for the Ryzen 7 7800X3D because its technically not on sale yet.

 

Some reasoning for my choices:

I do like overclocking and tinkering so a good Motherboard and good AIB GPU are huge pluses for me. The Tiachi 7900-XT is only $50 more than a factory 7900-XT and overclocks about as well as the Red Devil from PowerColor that costs $50 more. Also I went with an ASUS B-650 Mobo because I have the equivalent right now in my current build and it is AMAZING. 6-Layer PCB and insane power delivery makes it as good as an X-670 in overclocking and stability. Also I do need WiFi, probably should have mentioned that earlier lol:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3nBPwc

 

Also here is 10-Game Ultra-Wide Average performance, and I don't even care about going max settings, if I can hit 120 FPS on high settings, Im more than satisfied so ya, don't really see any reason to move up to the XTX whatsoever. And yes this result does include Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[eggowlred]

6 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Check out this list I just made to save some cash here and there, the only issue is that it does NOT include the $450 MSRP for the Ryzen 7 7800X3D because its technically not on sale yet.

 

Some reasoning for my choices:

I do like overclocking and tinkering so a good Motherboard and good AIB GPU are huge pluses for me. The Tiachi 7900-XT is only $50 more than a factory 7900-XT and overclocks about as well as the Red Devil from PowerColor that costs $50 more. Also I went with an ASUS B-650 Mobo because I have the equivalent right now in my current build and it is AMAZING. 6-Layer PCB and insane power delivery makes it as good as an X-670 in overclocking and stability. Also I do need WiFi, probably should have mentioned that earlier lol:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3nBPwc

I mostly agree with the parts but the 980 pro should be a 2tb not 1tb it is more storage for $50 bucks more and with the extra money you can get an rx 7900 xtx if you still want the 7900 xt you can buy from what I have seen the 7900 XTX has on average 10% more performance compared to the 7900 xt and can be a good 4k you of you want 4k gaming any time soon here is the list I made with the changes https://pcpartpicker.com/list/JLTHPX

[WallacEngineering]

1 minute ago, eggowlred said:

I mostly agree with the parts but the 980 pro should be a 2tb not 1tb it is more storage for $50 bucks more and with the extra money you can get an rx 7900 xtx if you still want the 7900 xt you can buy from what I have seen the 7900 XTX has on average 10% more performance compared to the 7900 xt and can be a good 4k you of you want 4k gaming any time soon here is the list I made with the changes https://pcpartpicker.com/list/JLTHPX

Thanks for the input man but again Ill probably pass on the XTX, might go with the 2TB 980 Pro though, that is a good call indeed. I am just not interested in 4K at all. I have read the studies and on a screen smaller than like an 80-in TV the human eye just can't see the difference between 1440p and 4K anyways, and that's if you are sitting incredibly close to the 80" screen. This 34" display I have is incredibly sharp, I really don't need more sharpness lol. The color is also amazing because its an ASUS ROG display. I just see no reason to ever go beyond 1440p, just need the computing horsepower to handle those extra ultra-wide pixels!

[SorryBella]

1 minute ago, eggowlred said:

I mostly agree with the parts but the 980 pro should be a 2tb not 1tb it is more storage for $50 bucks more and with the extra money you can get an rx 7900 xtx if you still want the 7900 xt you can buy from what I have seen the 7900 XTX has on average 10% more performance compared to the 7900 xt and can be a good 4k you of you want 4k gaming any time soon here is the list I made with the changes https://pcpartpicker.com/list/JLTHPX

Id definitely swap the board for the Pro RS because of Asus' BIOS being pretty unstable with EXPO profiles, but honestly +1 otherwise. And also, QLC SSD isnt up to par in durability especially at this price range in my opinion.

[WallacEngineering]

51 minutes ago, SorryClaire said:

Id definitely swap the board for the Pro RS because of Asus' BIOS being pretty unstable with EXPO profiles, but honestly +1 otherwise. And also, QLC SSD isnt up to par in durability especially at this price range in my opinion.

@dizmo @eggowlred

 

I made a few final changes to the list. Again I don't care about 4K and do not plan to upgrade to a 4K PC basically ever, more than sharp enough at 1440p, just need the extra computer horsepower to handle the extra ultra-wide pixels (3440x1440p is my ideal resolution for gaming, wanting 120 FPS at High settings, Ultra settings are just a bonus and unnecessary). And again I do enjoy tinkering so a good overclocking MoBo and AIB GPU are huge pluses for me and Im willing to splurge on better products that BuildZoid would approve of. Again keep in mind there are no accessories here, the $450 CPU MSRP is missing because its not on sale yet, and there is also no PSU because I can definitely use my existing Seasonic Prime 850-Watt Platinum. Realistically, including the CPU and accessories this is a $2500 build, pretty much exactly where I want to be:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/GcJVxs

 

This average benchmarking result includes extremes from both sides - games that run horribly like Cyberpunk 2077 under 80 FPS and games that run excellent like Tom Clancy Rainbow Six at well over 150 FPS.

 

 

Here is another video by the same channel, where he compares the 7900-XT and the 7900-XTX after the $100 XT price drop to see if it was a better value now (It certainly is). Again, keep in mind the target is 3440x1440p HIGH settings 120 FPS:

 

 

[eggowlred]

23 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

@dizmo @eggowlred

 

I made a few final changes to the list. Again I don't care about 4K and do not plan to upgrade to a 4K PC basically ever, more than sharp enough at 1440p, just need the extra computer horsepower to handle the extra ultra-wide pixels (3440x1440p is my ideal resolution for gaming, wanting 120 FPS at High settings, Ultra settings are just a bonus and unnecessary). And again I do enjoy tinkering so a good overclocking MoBo and AIB GPU are huge pluses for me and Im willing to splurge on better products that BuildZoid would approve of. Again keep in mind there are no accessories here, the $450 CPU MSRP is missing because its not on sale yet, and there is also no PSU because I can definitely use my existing Seasonic Prime 850-Watt Platinum. Realistically, including the CPU and accessories this is a $2500 build, pretty much exactly where I want to be:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/GcJVxs

 

This average benchmarking result includes extremes from both sides - games that run horribly like Cyberpunk 2077 under 80 FPS and games that run excellent like Tom Clancy Rainbow Six at well over 150 FPS.

 

 

Here is another video by the same channel, where he compares the 7900-XT and the 7900-XTX after the $100 XT price drop to see if it was a better value now (It certainly is). Again, keep in mind the target is 3440x1440p HIGH settings 120 FPS:

 

 

No problems there

[dizmo]

I mean, ultrawides aren't really that far off of 4k when it comes to running them.

 

Buying something just because you have the money doesn't make a ton of sense. IMO you won't see that much of an increase spending the money on a new CPU/motherboard, and it would be smarter to just buy a used CPU and then upgrade once DDR5 has had more of a chance to mature. Same goes for the Samsung PRO SSD you've added, IMO that's a waste of money as well. You won't notice a difference between that and a cheaper drive.

 

If you don't plan on using any kind of ray tracing then the AMD card is fine, but I'd probably go with the Nvidia one. You've had AMD before though, so I assume you're ready for the potential headaches associated with it.

 

 

[WallacEngineering]

9 hours ago, dizmo said:

I mean, ultrawides aren't really that far off of 4k when it comes to running them.

 

Buying something just because you have the money doesn't make a ton of sense. IMO you won't see that much of an increase spending the money on a new CPU/motherboard, and it would be smarter to just buy a used CPU and then upgrade once DDR5 has had more of a chance to mature. Same goes for the Samsung PRO SSD you've added, IMO that's a waste of money as well. You won't notice a difference between that and a cheaper drive.

 

If you don't plan on using any kind of ray tracing then the AMD card is fine, but I'd probably go with the Nvidia one. You've had AMD before though, so I assume you're ready for the potential headaches associated with it.

 

 

I mean, I have the money tho and it won't hurt me whatsoever to purchase the newer system, so why would I go with the now obsolete (not in performance but rather in socket) AM4 system? In that case why would anyone ever buy AM5 lol?

 

The thing is, the AM5 platform HAS matured already. Obviously it hasn't matured completely yet, but it has definitely matured. When the first Ryzen 7000 chip hit the market the very cheapest AM5 Motherboard was over $300, 32GB of DDR5 RAM was also nearly $300. Everything was expensive. Building this same system back then would have costed like an additional $500.

 

Im not sure if you have ever compared a good NVME to a bad one before but running a cheap NVME as a boot drive is NEVER a good idea. Their performance is unstable especially because of their tiny cache. The 980 Pro is regarded as one of the best performing NVMEs on the market, even Linus himself recommends them.

 

In terms of computing horsepower, 3440x1440p is far different than 4K:

2560 x 1440 = ~3.75 Million Pixels

3440 x 1440 = ~5.00 Million Pixels

3840 x 2560 = ~10.00 Million Pixels

 

This is why a while back Linus said 4K Gaming is so dumb. He was correct then and is still correct now, and will forever be correct - it is dumb, because it requires literally double the pixel compute power of even 3440x1440p for double the pixels and yet the human eye can't even see the difference on a computer monitor-sized display.

 

I also assume you haven't used an AMD GPU in recent years. With modern AMD drivers the headaches are basically gone. Before the GPU was physically damaged (see OP) I never had a single issue with it. When the card was first released and the drivers were immature sure there was a bit of instability and a little crashing here and there but I got my hands on a 5700-XT a few months after release and the drivers were completely stable by then, even overclocked to its maximum stable limit never gave me any issues on any game ever.

 

These days running AMD is basically the same as NVIDIA minus a few features that NVIDIA cards specifically have that AMD cards do not. However, these days AMD is rapidly catching up to NVIDIA in terms of features as well.

 

Even Linus has switched to the 7900-XTX because he is sick of NVIDIAs BS pricing and their Anti-Consumerism nature. AMD also has MUCH better software with all control center options and overclocking built right into the basic driver, you don't even need a separate GeForce Experience or 3rd party overclocking tools, anyone will tell you that AMDs user interface for graphics is light-years beyond anything NVIDIA has to offer.

[WallacEngineering]

I missed a performance chart that is actually quite useful, this chart shows the differences in performance between the Radeon RX 7900-XT and the Radeon RX 7900-XTX in 10 different games at my chosen 3440x1440p resolution.

 

Every single game tested here used completely maxed out/Ultra settings that I personally find unnecessary. High settings with one or two unimportant settings turned down to Medium such as shadows would be satisfactory for me as far as visual fidelity goes. All High settings with one or two important settings such as textures or view distance cranked to Ultra would be the ideal/dream fidelity level for me.

 

As far as frame rates go, I personally find that 75 FPS is the minimum average framerate for my experience to feel "smooth". If 1% lows can stay at or above 60 FPS then everything tends to feel fine, although not fantastically responsive. As we approach 90-100 FPS average with lows in the 80s or so, I am completely satisfied with the gaming experience. Everything feels buttery smooth and responsive enough to handle multiplayer shooters and other fast-paced games.

 

120 FPS with 1% lows in the upper 100s to low 110s is the ideal/dream framerate for me. I can't really see myself getting a better gaming experience than 120 FPS. Even Linus showed a while back that the vast majority of people cannot feel a difference and do not get any better at the game beyond 144 Hz refresh rate anyways. So really then anything beyond 120 FPS is simply a bonus, completely unnecessary. If your FPS is higher then really you should be focusing on turning up your fidelity settings first unless you are like in an E-Sports tournament or something.

 

So thats why I feel that the Radeon RX 7900-XT is more than enough for me and that the Radeon RX 7900-XTX's additional performance would just be completely unnecessary and honestly just a waste of money. The 7900-XT is pretty much exactly what you want for this resolution. You even have a bit of performance overhead in most games and this card will happily run high settings at 3440x1440p with high refresh rate for like the next decade.

 

[WallacEngineering]

Well @eggowlred@dizmo

 

You guys might have stumbled onto something with suggesting the RX 7900-XTX over the 7900-XT despite my lower resolution.

 

You see I was basing my decision on price-to performance ratio and $850 for a good AIB 7900-XT is indeed a lot better value than a good AIB 7900-XTX for $1100+. However, while not a great AIB and more of a lower tier AIB, this AsRock Phantom Gaming RX 7900-XTX has just gone on sale over at NewEgg for $959.99. That is pretty insane value in comparison to the RTX 4080, the cheapest of which I am finding at $1199.99 with good AIB designs starting at $1299.99 for the exact same performance.

 

However, as previously discussed, the XTX would be a bit overkill for me and I will very rarely max out its potential. So I could hold off and hope that a 7900-XT experiences the same kind of sale later on. This has suddenly become a very tough call...

 

ON SALE Phantom Gaming RX 7900-XTX:

https://www.newegg.com/asrock-radeon-rx-7900-xtx-rx7900xtx-pg-24go/p/N82E16814930081?Description=XTX&cm_re=XTX-_-14-930-081-_-Product&quicklink=true

 

Ultra-Wide performance comparison of RX 7900-XTX and RTX 4080:

 

 

LOL Check it out, Phantom Gaming RX 7900-XTX is quite literally $10 more than the Gigabyte edition RX 7900-XT

 

[dizmo]

I still have a really hard time recommending Radeon GPUs, but if you're fine with them then it seems like a good deal. Personally I'd go Nvidia. 

[WallacEngineering]

4 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I still have a really hard time recommending Radeon GPUs, but if you're fine with them then it seems like a good deal. Personally I'd go Nvidia. 

 

You should really try a modern Radeon GPU, it will definitely change your outlook. Check it out, nobody else is having a hard time recommending Radeon GPUs:

 

To summarize, what people are saying is:

 

If you need higher Ray-Tracing performance or Cuda performance - then spend the extra on NVidia (RTX 4080 is $200 more than XTX for the same gaming performance). However, if your primary use is gaming and you don't have any need for Cuda, then the XTX destroys the RTX 4080 in terms of price-to-performance ratio.

[IkeaGnome]

2 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

You should really try a modern Radeon GPU, it will definitely change your outlook.

IIRC they had a 6700 xt for a little while and had nothing but issues with it.

 

My 6800xt couldn't do VR no matter what I tried among a few other small gripes with it. The day I went back to Nvidia everything worked fine for me. Hell, I can run my A750 in my system as a second GPU just fine now with no issues. AMD and Intel drivers were constantly fighting and just having it installed tanked my performance in just about every game I tried. Intel and Nvidia get by just fine. Ran 2 GPUs for a short while to see if it was an AMD problem or Intel. With my current GPU there's 0 reason to have a second in my computer.