Apple "Clean Energy" charging

[Obioban]

5 hours ago, Dracarris said:

No. Because even a billion phones are negligible to the other billion devices on the grid. Also, even globally, I'd estimate the number of iphones eligible for this program (ignoring current location restrictions) at around one billion devices and not several.

I guess it would make a measurable impact though if rolled out to ipads and Mac.

2,000,000,000 iOS devices in active use:

https://www.theverge.com/2023/2/2/23583501/apple-iphone-ipad-active-2-billion-devices-q1-2023

 

81% of iOS devices on ios 16:

https://developer.apple.com/support/app-store/

 

So, ~1,600,000,000 devices had/will have this turned on. I'm not saying it's going to solve the problem, but it is going to make a difference. At that scale, anything does. 

 

I hope they bring it to Mac, so I can have cheaper charging. Zero reason to charge my computer any time other than 12-6am, when the battery easily lasts all day with constant use. 

[wanderingfool2]

3 hours ago, BabaGanuche said:

This is quite common in NA, along with interruptible service for air conditioning. The water heating has been a thing since at least the 80's and the AC since at least the early 90's. Both could have been in place longer, I just do not have any personal knowledge of it older than that.

At least where I am, I've never had that or heard of that (and I've gone through replacement now 3 times and not once have they ever mentioned technology like that inside the heater).  I've had lots of conversations with them regarding rebates and government incentives but never utility controlled.  I don't know of anyone who actually has any model that does that...even trying to google now all I get is new zealand write ups on it.

 

If you do have write ups on it, or articles regarding the use of it in the US it would be nice (just to read up on it)

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

At least where I am, I've never had that or heard of that (and I've gone through replacement now 3 times and not once have they ever mentioned technology like that inside the heater).  I've had lots of conversations with them regarding rebates and government incentives but never utility controlled.  I don't know of anyone who actually has any model that does that...even trying to google now all I get is new zealand write ups on it.

 

If you do have write ups on it, or articles regarding the use of it in the US it would be nice (just to read up on it)

It's not inside the water heater. It's in the electrical distribution board (fuse box etc) and it's a device that sits in front of the fuse/MCB that feeds the hot water heater.

 

 

The device on the left is the ripple control, right is obviously an old not smart meter. Best photo I could find on Google, meter type doesn't matter

 

[Donut417]

7 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

At least where I am, I've never had that or heard of that (and I've gone through replacement now 3 times and not once have they ever mentioned technology like that inside the heater).  I've had lots of conversations with them regarding rebates and government incentives but never utility controlled.  I don't know of anyone who actually has any model that does that...even trying to google now all I get is new zealand write ups on it.

 

If you do have write ups on it, or articles regarding the use of it in the US it would be nice (just to read up on it)

From how I have seen it set up, it's not something inside the appliance. In the place I saw it set up, the utility installed a second electrical meter, the things connected to that second meter could be switched off by the utility. The Utility would provide a discount of some sort for you allowing this. 

 

Now where I live all our appliance (Furnace, Water Heater, Stove/Oven, and Dryer) are all gas. We dont have central air, so this type of thing doesn't work for us. 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

From how I have seen it set up, it's not something inside the appliance. In the place I saw it set up, the utility installed a second electrical meter, the things connected to that second meter could be switched off by the utility. The Utility would provide a discount of some sort for you allowing this. 

Ah nice, I forgot to mention that it also gives cheaper rate. Our electricity bills have line items for standard usage and hot water.

[BabaGanuche]

17 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

If you do have write ups on it, or articles regarding the use of it in the US it would be nice (just to read up on it)

Other above have covered how it works, separate meter or separate control device.

 

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newlook.dteenergy.com/wps/wcm/connect/b837eccc-c328-438a-a21b-490801b018cd/CoolCurrentsFAQs.pdf%3FMOD%3DAJPERES&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjy8uLmpMz9AhVfJzQIHb7PDQ4QFnoECAMQAg&usg=AOvVaw3TuTqVu-aEvAcb24zvmgAr

A

 

The full document about the discounted rates and rules are below.

 

https://www.michigan.gov/mpsc/-/media/Project/Websites/mpsc/consumer/rate-books/electric/dte/dtee1curd1throughend.pdf?rev=e32d17a4b8e9440fa982dabfe289e835&hash=279526B84C90EC8E44A2F45C8029267D

[Dracarris]

23 hours ago, Obioban said:

2,000,000,000 iOS devices in active use:

https://www.theverge.com/2023/2/2/23583501/apple-iphone-ipad-active-2-billion-devices-q1-2023

- That's 2 Billion Apple, not iOS devices. So no, 1.6 Billion devices won't be affected.

- The majority of iOS devices is still not supported since the required electricity data is not available for the respective regions

- For every iOS device that thanks to this feature consumes a few Wh less from dirty energy, there is a ~1/4 to ~1/2 household full of devices that consume kWh on whatever energy there is available. Billions of iOS devices together will save a seizable absolute amount of dirty energy, but in comparison to the respective total consumption of the affected billion households, this big number will again, pale.

[Obioban]

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

- That's 2 Billion Apple, not iOS devices. So no, 1.6 Billion devices won't be affected.

- The majority of iOS devices is still not supported since the required electricity data is not available for the respective regions

- For every iOS device that thanks to this feature consumes a few Wh less from dirty energy, there is a ~1/4 to ~1/2 household full of devices that consume kWh on whatever energy there is available. Billions of iOS devices together will save a seizable absolute amount of dirty energy, but in comparison to the respective total consumption of the affected billion households, this big number will again, pale.

~100,000,000 Macs in active use, so 5% of Apple's active devices-- and they'll almost certainly be getting an update to support this anyway.

-realizing that Apples' devices are popular in higher income areas/countries, where do you think the data isn't going to be available that Apple sells in meaningful numbers?

-yes, Apple is not helping other devices energy usage with this, you're correct. That may be an unreasonable ask . No one thing is going to solve everything-- the problem is everything, and the only way to improve it is one thing at a time.

[leadeater]

6 hours ago, Dracarris said:

The majority of iOS devices is still not supported since the required electricity data is not available for the respective regions

It's a US only feature currently anyway

[leadeater]

6 hours ago, Obioban said:

~100,000,000 Macs in active use, so 5% of Apple's active devices-- and they'll almost certainly be getting an update to support this anyway.

-realizing that Apples' devices are popular in higher income areas/countries, where do you think the data isn't going to be available that Apple sells in meaningful numbers?

-yes, Apple is not helping other devices energy usage with this, you're correct. That may be an unreasonable ask . No one thing is going to solve everything-- the problem is everything, and the only way to improve it is one thing at a time.

Without the data and evidence to show the difference between on and off this is all just wordage platitudes to those that like to hear this sort of thing. This feature is heavily reliant on user behavior and specifics on how it's actually been implemented so this very well could only make a 5% difference in consuming more clean energy than not, or something like that. 

 

Just because there are a lot of devices it's not a good idea to assume that due to this alone the net positive result is going to be meaningful.

 

Not all devices will get charged at the same time, not all devices will get charged at times where the feature would activate etc. Getting in to the weeds of details does actually matter if any attempt to quantify just how beneficial this is is attempted.

 

Edit:

If I were even able to use it my energy in my local area is 100% clean and renewable year round, bar rare exceptional circumstances. My power comes from hydro and wind. And while it's not "about me" consideration must be made in to factors like these. I very strongly believe this is doing next to nothing since Apple did not come out singing and dancing with the data to show it which they do have that required data to do so.