Dual PSU systems?

[Protomesh]

Seen multiple cases implement dual PSU designs and it has piqued my interest, especially since it should make cable routing a whole lot easier and tidier.

 

So my question sort of is whether dual PSUs are actually worth the hassle? Costs aren't an issue... But more just overall system stability.

 

I've been thinking of connecting my motherboard, CPU and GPU into one power supply, 

 

while the secondary power supply would be in charge of handling a custom loop cooling system?

 

Would that create issues since you technically have to "turn on" two separate systems so if they're desynced, then what happens?

 

If you power on the custom loop first, does the pump just start moving liquid without an issue and fans spin without an issue? Or will it just fall apart completely lol.

 

Or if the main components power on first but the cooling system takes a while longer to start running... Will everything just get fried in a matter of seconds and destroy all the components? 

 

I'm a big skeptic lol. And I know the question is vague. I don't have any specific system details to share.

 

Just wondering if it's possible to run an external cooling loop with like 6 radiators on their own power circuit? While the contents of my case are running on another power supply? 

 

Since running a ton of cables from the external cooling system would be a big pain and look ugly if I have to rout them all back inside the main system's PSU...

[manikyath]

in an ideal world, you need some sort of logic that'll handle ATX signallng (there's a few different lines on the 24-pin that serve as very rudimentary communication between the mobo and the power supply).

 

you could just have a splitter for the PS_ON signal for the second power supply, but if that one somehow takes longer to get in spec than the first, it's possible to have oddities, because the computer actually waits for the power supply to report back that power is within spec.

 

having all that said;. there's not really much benefit to going double power supply as long as you're not maxing out a 1600w power supply.. which even with today's space heater graphics cards is not an easy task.

 

as for this:

14 minutes ago, Protomesh said:

run an external cooling loop with like 6 radiators on their own power circuit?

assuming you're talking about powering the pump and fans - you dont need an ATX power supply for this, just some industrial grade 12V 120W power supply will do just fine.

[Lurking]

55 minutes ago, Protomesh said:

Seen multiple cases implement dual PSU designs and it has piqued my interest, especially since it should make cable routing a whole lot easier and tidier.

 

So my question sort of is whether dual PSUs are actually worth the hassle? Costs aren't an issue... But more just overall system stability.

 

I've been thinking of connecting my motherboard, CPU and GPU into one power supply, 

 

while the secondary power supply would be in charge of handling a custom loop cooling system?

 

Would that create issues since you technically have to "turn on" two separate systems so if they're desynced, then what happens?

 

If you power on the custom loop first, does the pump just start moving liquid without an issue and fans spin without an issue? Or will it just fall apart completely lol.

 

Or if the main components power on first but the cooling system takes a while longer to start running... Will everything just get fried in a matter of seconds and destroy all the components? 

 

I'm a big skeptic lol. And I know the question is vague. I don't have any specific system details to share.

 

Just wondering if it's possible to run an external cooling loop with like 6 radiators on their own power circuit? While the contents of my case are running on another power supply? 

 

Since running a ton of cables from the external cooling system would be a big pain and look ugly if I have to rout them all back inside the main system's PSU...

Possible yes, but it would not met your first criterium of a cleaner layout. Initially I thought you wanted a separate PSU for GPU, and the remainder of the system due to high GPU loads. But the cooling loop itself doesn't use a lot of power at all. so it really wouldn't make sense. and it sure would not be easier to install (where do you place a second PSU??)

 

I'm sure some logic could help. but if the cooling loop PSU fails, you could overheat the system. Watercooling, unlike a good air-cooler, doesn't really have a lot of passive cooling ability. 

 

External radiators also need to moved with the case, or the hoses disconnected. a big a hassle and potential for problems compared to a regular water cooling loop where the radiator is in the case 

[Protomesh]

42 minutes ago, manikyath said:

in an ideal world, you need some sort of logic that'll handle ATX signallng (there's a few different lines on the 24-pin that serve as very rudimentary communication between the mobo and the power supply).

 

you could just have a splitter for the PS_ON signal for the second power supply, but if that one somehow takes longer to get in spec than the first, it's possible to have oddities, because the computer actually waits for the power supply to report back that power is within spec.

 

having all that said;. there's not really much benefit to going double power supply as long as you're not maxing out a 1600w power supply.. which even with today's space heater graphics cards is not an easy task.

 

as for this:

assuming you're talking about powering the pump and fans - you dont need an ATX power supply for this, just some industrial grade 12V 120W power supply will do just fine.

Well I will have 82 fans total in the rig (or possibly more)... Each fan is rated at almost 5W at maximum rpm so my fans alone would be using 410W of power and then you have to add possibly two D5 pumps that are rated for roughly 25W each so I would realistically need a 500W power supply for my cooling system alone.

 

And my system's main components will need around 1000W-1200W... So I guess I'm either completely maxing out a 1600W PSU or I have to start looking at the 2000W options for a single PSU...

 

"82 FANS?!??" Yes. Possibly more. I don't need that much cooling. I just want to do it to flex. It will probably be my "endgame" system... Ugly as sin but will cool a volcano.

 

Only saving grace is I won't bother with RGB, that would be like almost 100 extra cables to rout and I would need like 17 RGB controllers. 

 

As I'm writing this I reminded myself my power supply might not have enough SATA connectors for all the fans. 

[Protomesh]

2 minutes ago, Lurking said:

Possible yes, but it would not met your first criterium of a cleaner layout. Initially I thought you wanted a separate PSU for GPU, and the remainder of the system due to high GPU loads. But the cooling loop itself doesn't use a lot of power at all. so it really wouldn't make sense. and it sure would not be easier to install (where do you place a second PSU??)

 

I'm sure some logic could help. but if the cooling loop PSU fails, you could overheat the system. Watercooling, unlike a good air-cooler, doesn't really have a lot of passive cooling ability. 

 

External radiators also need to moved with the case, or the hoses disconnected. a big a hassle and potential for problems compared to a regular water cooling loop where the radiator is in the case 

My case has an extension chamber that has space for second PSU.

 

What I mean by wanting it to be tidy is to avoid running 200 cables over my table from outside the case to inside it. 

 

I need like 500W for the cooling loop due to 82(+) fans ‍

 

I'm trying to levitate my case above ground.

[Lurking]

1 hour ago, Protomesh said:

My case has an extension chamber that has space for second PSU.

 

What I mean by wanting it to be tidy is to avoid running 200 cables over my table from outside the case to inside it. 

 

I need like 500W for the cooling loop due to 82(+) fans ‍

 

I'm trying to levitate my case above ground.

I'm curious what CPU/GPU you use to need that type of cooling.... 

 

If you use normal consumer hardware, just a standard setup with a few case fans and radiator or air cooler will be enough and will resolve the cable mess. 

 

I'm actually not sure if you are serious. 

[freeagent]

My old Stacker has a plug that will let you run 2x PSUs together.  It isn't common these days.. and though I have a need to do it in the past, I never did.. my PSUs were junk.

[Zando_]

1 hour ago, Protomesh said:

Ugly as sin but will cool a volcano.

Not how cooling works. More fans =/= more cooling. They’ll likely interfere with each other and end up worse than just using a reasonable fan setup. More radiators also =/= more cooling, you can only get it down to a certain delta above ambient on standard water cooling, any further radiator surface area is a waste. Just get a chiller and run slightly above the dew point to avoid condensation. You want a well done system if you want to flex, not a mountain of shit with a high $ tag. 

[Protomesh]

51 minutes ago, Lurking said:

I'm curious what CPU/GPU you use to need that type of cooling.... 

 

If you use normal consumer hardware, just a standard setup with a few case fans and radiator or air cooler will be enough and will resolve the cable mess. 

 

I'm actually not sure if you are serious. 

Well there are the AMD Epyc's that are 400Ws stock and my current 6900XT has peak power draws of almost 450Ws, it nearly uses the same amount of power as a 4090 lol.

 

Seeing as how the GPU and CPU market are both clearly trying to push more and more power through the chips every passing generation, I think it's better to just have super overkill cooling if you can. 

 

We're already seeing that the top end CPUs are thermally limited even with the best 360mm AIOs in the market and GPUs with air cooling are also not running at full potential and they're reaching (imo) dangerously high temperatures. 

 

85°C is not healthy at all even though a lot of people keep arguing 85°C is fine, it ain't.

 

I want my CPU and GPU run below 50s. 

 

Also more or less doing it just for the sake of doing it. I'm a bit special. I don't like doing mainstream setups that don't make people question my sanity.

[Protomesh]

32 minutes ago, Zando_ said:

Not how cooling works. More fans =/= more cooling. They’ll likely interfere with each other and end up worse than just using a reasonable fan setup. More radiators also =/= more cooling, you can only get it down to a certain delta above ambient on standard water cooling, any further radiator surface area is a waste. Just get a chiller and run slightly above the dew point to avoid condensation. You want a well done system if you want to flex, not a mountain of shit with a high $ tag. 

I understand airflow pretty well. They'll all be getting fresh air from outside the case with plenty of exhausts so no worry there.

 

I definitely will never be able to do fancy looking hard tubing with custom paint jobs and custom cutting etc. so no point in trying to go for "fancy" especially when literally every setup has already been done to death.

 

I'm less impressed by "fancy" than I am impressed by "crazy". I'm a pretty big RGB hater personally since it just makes the system look like a discoball. Makes it look cheap. 

 

The uglier the setup the better it looks imo. That's how I like my games too. The worse the graphics, the better.

[Lurking]

4 minutes ago, Protomesh said:

Well there are the AMD Epyc's that are 400Ws stock and my current 6900XT has peak power draws of almost 450Ws, it nearly uses the same amount of power as a 4090 lol.

 

Seeing as how the GPU and CPU market are both clearly trying to push more and more power through the chips every passing generation, I think it's better to just have super overkill cooling if you can. 

 

We're already seeing that the top end CPUs are thermally limited even with the best 360mm AIOs in the market and GPUs with air cooling are also not running at full potential and they're reaching (imo) dangerously high temperatures. 

 

85°C is not healthy at all even though a lot of people keep arguing 85°C is fine, it ain't.

 

I want my CPU and GPU run below 50s. 

 

Also more or less doing it just for the sake of doing it. I'm a bit special. I don't like doing mainstream setups that don't make people question my sanity.

if you do it for the sake of doing.. fine. But your system may use up to 1000W. A non-refrigerant cooling system shouldn't use more than a few Watt to cool it. Also note that any electricity used will become heat and warm up your room. So if you run 500W of fans in your room, this makes the room warmer. And in turn will make cooling of the PC even less effective (and you will be miserable).

 

If the manufacturer says 95°C is fine, you don't need to feel sorry for the semi-conductor. Under load you won't get modern CPU to 50°C unless you use some refrigeration system. 

[Protomesh]

20 minutes ago, Lurking said:

if you do it for the sake of doing.. fine. But your system may use up to 1000W. A non-refrigerant cooling system shouldn't use more than a few Watt to cool it. Also note that any electricity used will become heat and warm up your room. So if you run 500W of fans in your room, this makes the room warmer. And in turn will make cooling of the PC even less effective (and you will be miserable).

 

If the manufacturer says 95°C is fine, you don't need to feel sorry for the semi-conductor. Under load you won't get modern CPU to 50°C unless you use some refrigeration system. 

Just cuz the manufacturer says 95°C is fine doesn't mean it's fine. Also you're spreading misinformation by saying that.

 

Nvidia GPUs should never be exceeding 85 degrees celsius. 

 

AMD GPUs tend to have higher "maximum operating temperature", but that's just marketing horsecrap. AMD GPUs will suffer all the same if they spend long periods at 85°C. 

 

AMD just claims they're fine because they can't compete with Nvidia without pushing the silicon to the max by increasing wattage and thus the heat.

[Godlygamer23]

8 minutes ago, Protomesh said:

Just cuz the manufacturer says 95°C is fine doesn't mean it's fine. Also you're spreading misinformation by saying that.

 

Nvidia GPUs should never be exceeding 85 degrees celsius. 

 

AMD GPUs tend to have higher "maximum operating temperature", but that's just marketing horsecrap. AMD GPUs will suffer all the same if they spend long periods at 85°C. 

 

AMD just claims they're fine because they can't compete with Nvidia without pushing the silicon to the max by increasing wattage and thus the heat.

Depends on how "fine" is defined. The manufacturer(which is very generic) might say x temperature is fine, but the customers say it's not. The manufacturer might have objective data that says it's fine, but only for the expected warranty period, which for a graphics card might be 3 years. So the manufacturer is only guaranteeing that the product is totally fine for 3 years. After that, it's up in the air(based on this logic). If one customer doesn't like the temperature, big deal. But if that customer convinces other customers it's not acceptable, then you have a problem, because even if you deny warranty to those customers, they now will push others to not purchase that product, which will motivate the manufacturer to change their product because they're no longer making expected profits. 

2 hours ago, Protomesh said:

"82 FANS?!??" Yes. Possibly more. I don't need that much cooling. I just want to do it to flex. It will probably be my "endgame" system... Ugly as sin but will cool a volcano.

What chassis could possible support 82 fans? What madman setup are you going to be running in order to claim that you have 82 fans? Flexing in this case makes no sense. You're gonna draw power for the sake of basically "looking cool" with no tangible benefit, and it might even be worse because of the additional heat load.

[manikyath]

2 hours ago, Protomesh said:

Well I will have 82 fans total in the rig (or possibly more)... Each fan is rated at almost 5W at maximum rpm so my fans alone would be using 410W of power and then you have to add possibly two D5 pumps that are rated for roughly 25W each so I would realistically need a 500W power supply for my cooling system alone.

 

And my system's main components will need around 1000W-1200W... So I guess I'm either completely maxing out a 1600W PSU or I have to start looking at the 2000W options for a single PSU...

 

"82 FANS?!??" Yes. Possibly more. I don't need that much cooling. I just want to do it to flex. It will probably be my "endgame" system... Ugly as sin but will cool a volcano.

 

Only saving grace is I won't bother with RGB, that would be like almost 100 extra cables to rout and I would need like 17 RGB controllers. 

 

As I'm writing this I reminded myself my power supply might not have enough SATA connectors for all the fans. 

few things to pick apart here:

- unless you have some sort of high speed delta fan, rating and what they actually use is very different.

- whole room watercooling was 5 4-fan rads iirc, you dont need 82 fans, you just dont. you're putting a silly hat on a silly hat on a trump mask on a silly hat. you might need a pair or even 3 4-fan rads, but you dont need 20.

- for the temperature debate.. most GPU's (and even CPU's these days) TARGET 80-85°c, meaning they will keep boosting until they hit a power, clock speed, or thermal limit. they arent just "fine" to run at that sort of temperature, they are designed to. having that said.. even if you want to go a bit extra, there is a vast chasm between keeping below 80°c and building a shed out of watercooling radiators.

 

basicly, you're doing this:

 

your problem and solution are valid, to a degree. this is not that degree.

 

also - epyc's are HUGE chips, they are stupid easy to cool. i dont quite have a top end chip, but my 180W 16-core epyc stays a chill 56 degrees even with benchmarking loads, with the NH-U14S TR4-SP3 with the fan at half speed. big IHS means it transfers heat easily, which means you dont need *as* low coolant temps to keep that 400W chip in check, as you would with for example an overclocked core i7.

 

it really sounds like you're WAY overthinking the parts that dont matter, and forgetting the parts that do.

 

besides - if you'd need THAT much rad space to cool your epycs, what would datacenters with hundreds (if not thousands) of them look like?

[Protomesh]

41 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Depends on how "fine" is defined. The manufacturer(which is very generic) might say x temperature is fine, but the customers say it's not. The manufacturer might have objective data that says it's fine, but only for the expected warranty period, which for a graphics card might be 3 years. So the manufacturer is only guaranteeing that the product is totally fine for 3 years. After that, it's up in the air(based on this logic). If one customer doesn't like the temperature, big deal. But if that customer convinces other customers it's not acceptable, then you have a problem, because even if you deny warranty to those customers, they now will push others to not purchase that product, which will motivate the manufacturer to change their product because they're no longer making expected profits. 

What chassis could possible support 82 fans? What madman setup are you going to be running in order to claim that you have 82 fans? Flexing in this case makes no sense. You're gonna draw power for the sake of basically "looking cool" with no tangible benefit, and it might even be worse because of the additional heat load.

If the manufacturer loses sales because they have failed to properly cool their product, that's on them. THEY SHOULD be paying the price for it for being scumbags. Every manufacturer is a big rat in the system. 

 

So who are you going to believe, the manufacturer who only cares about your wallet and gives horrible advice that will destroy your products faster so you buy new ones...

 

or are you going to believe other users who are gaining nothing from calling out the corrupt company ? 

 

How does the manufacturer even have such information... when Nvidia released the 4090 how would they know what the safe operating temperature would be? 

 

Did they already have the 4090 ready... 3 years ago? And even then that would only be the warranty period... so surely they ran the 4090 at that temperature for 5 years right? Wrong. 

 

Manufacturers NEVER. NEVER TEST THEIR PRODUCTS! 

 

PSUs with 12 year warranties... They don't run the PSU at full load for 12 years to see if it will last... These are all rough estimates they made up. Some are more generous (good for them. I fully support that), but most GPU manufacturers I actually have dealt with myself only give their products 1 year warranties. Yes, only 1 year. Even though thankfully I am from EU and buyer protection assures consumer safety by upholding MINIMUM 2 year guaranteed. So even if the warranty is 1 year but the product breaks within 2 years, you can get your money back. Though you might have to fight a bit for it.

 

Never trust the manufacturer! Never! Every manufacturer has bad products.

 

Just look at the 4090 12-pin connectors. They clearly NEVER TESTED IT. 

[Lurking]

58 minutes ago, Protomesh said:

Just cuz the manufacturer says 95°C is fine doesn't mean it's fine. Also you're spreading misinformation by saying that.

 

Nvidia GPUs should never be exceeding 85 degrees celsius. 

 

AMD GPUs tend to have higher "maximum operating temperature", but that's just marketing horsecrap. AMD GPUs will suffer all the same if they spend long periods at 85°C. 

 

AMD just claims they're fine because they can't compete with Nvidia without pushing the silicon to the max by increasing wattage and thus the heat.

I didn't know that recommending to read manufacturer specifications is spreading misinformation..... If you think manufacturer data are wrong, you can take it up to the manufacturer. To most people, reading the manufacturer specs is sound advice.

 

Like it or not, newer CPU (and likely GPU??) are designed to run at higher temps and will go as fast as they can as long as they get enough power and stay at the limit temperature. Who am I to say AMD doesn't know what they are doing when they set the 95°C limit for CPUs? I'm sure they have at least one qualified person who researched that....

 

You'll learn (or not) that the limiting factor in your cooling setup is the heat transfer from the chip to the water loop. This is not because the manufacturer is incompetent, it is because a tiny chip (or chiplet) uses a lot of Watts and that is a higher power density than an electric stove plate. Just simple heat transfer. Your radiators/fans aren't the limit, even if you go to 82 fans. If you want to optimize the system, you need to find the bottleneck. If efficient cooling is your goal... 

[Protomesh]

48 minutes ago, manikyath said:

few things to pick apart here:

- unless you have some sort of high speed delta fan, rating and what they actually use is very different.

- whole room watercooling was 5 4-fan rads iirc, you dont need 82 fans, you just dont. you're putting a silly hat on a silly hat on a trump mask on a silly hat. you might need a pair or even 3 4-fan rads, but you dont need 20.

- for the temperature debate.. most GPU's (and even CPU's these days) TARGET 80-85°c, meaning they will keep boosting until they hit a power, clock speed, or thermal limit. they arent just "fine" to run at that sort of temperature, they are designed to. having that said.. even if you want to go a bit extra, there is a vast chasm between keeping below 80°c and building a shed out of watercooling radiators.

 

basicly, you're doing this:

 

your problem and solution are valid, to a degree. this is not that degree.

 

also - epyc's are HUGE chips, they are stupid easy to cool. i dont quite have a top end chip, but my 180W 16-core epyc stays a chill 56 degrees even with benchmarking loads, with the NH-U14S TR4-SP3 with the fan at half speed. big IHS means it transfers heat easily, which means you dont need *as* low coolant temps to keep that 400W chip in check, as you would with for example an overclocked core i7.

 

it really sounds like you're WAY overthinking the parts that dont matter, and forgetting the parts that do.

 

besides - if you'd need THAT much rad space to cool your epycs, what would datacenters with hundreds (if not thousands) of them look like?

Another misconception. Just because companies say a product is "designed" to run at X speed or at X temperature etc. that is not necessarily true.

 

And in cases where it is true, these products are also DESIGNED TO BREAK.

[Protomesh]

2 hours ago, Lurking said:

I didn't know that recommending to read manufacturer specifications is spreading misinformation..... If you think manufacturer data are wrong, you can take it up to the manufacturer. To most people, reading the manufacturer specs is sound advice.

 

Like it or not, newer CPU (and likely GPU??) are designed to run at higher temps and will go as fast as they can as long as they get enough power and stay at the limit temperature. Who am I to say AMD doesn't know what they are doing when they set the 95°C limit for CPUs? I'm sure they have at least one qualified person who researched that....

 

You'll learn (or not) that the limiting factor in your cooling setup is the heat transfer from the chip to the water loop. This is not because the manufacturer is incompetent, it is because a tiny chip (or chiplet) uses a lot of Watts and that is a higher power density than an electric stove plate. Just simple heat transfer. Your radiators/fans aren't the limit, even if you go to 82 fans. If you want to optimize the system, you need to find the bottleneck. If efficient cooling is your goal... 

<removed>

 

Manufacturers have lied since the dawn of man!

 

Ever heard of Nvidia claiming the RTX 4080 will have "3X the performance of the 3080Ti"... 

 

and then it turned out to be a COMPLETE LIE! wow! Who could've expected that!

 

These companies have lied to you for years! And you still give them the benefit of the doubt. Crazy that people like you never learn that you're being played like a fiddle.

 

Not my loss so, continue on. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by SansVarnic
Removed content.

[manikyath]

5 minutes ago, Protomesh said:

when Nvidia released the 4090 how would they know what the safe operating temperature would be? 

you do know that they spend actual YEARS on development and testing before these chips release right?

 

they know these things inside out the moment they come onto the market, down to which exact transistor out of the billions is most likely to fail. they know the exact coefficient of thermal expansion of every part it is made of, and what stresses are paired with that. nvidia cant use another trainwreck like that xbox GPU back in the day.

 

7 minutes ago, Protomesh said:

Manufacturers NEVER. NEVER TEST THEIR PRODUCTS! 

false. just downright false.. i dont know how to explain to you that they do, because you cannot make a blind man see.

 

8 minutes ago, Protomesh said:

PSUs with 12 year warranties... They don't run the PSU at full load for 12 years to see if it will last...

yeah no.. they dont. but they have an extremely good idea of the expected lifespan of all the components inside it, and they wouldnt give that warranty if they arent absolutely certain the great majority of them will survive 12 years.. because well, otherwise they are looking at bankruptcy down the road.

 

1 minute ago, Protomesh said:

And in cases where it is true, these products are also DESIGNED TO BREAK.

just.. no. you seriously need to stop snorting tin foil if you believe that your GPU will selfdestruct if you dont keep it at room temperature. i have a quite extensive parts shelf, a lot of what's on there has lead a very harsh life near ot at TJmax.

 

2 minutes ago, Protomesh said:

Ever heard of Nvidia claiming the RTX 4080 will have "3X the performance of the 3080Ti"... 

 

and then it turned out to be a COMPLETE LIE! wow! Who could've expected that!

marketing <=> engineering.

 

there is one highly specific usecase where it will be 3x speed, so marketing runs away with that.

that doesnt mean that engineering also makes these things fall apart like some comedy sketch.

this is why reviewers exist, and you happen to be on the forum of one of those.

 

having all this said, none of the conspiracy theories above are in any way relevant to running 20 4-fan radiators.

[Protomesh]

16 minutes ago, manikyath said:

you do know that they spend actual YEARS on development and testing before these chips release right?

 

they know these things inside out the moment they come onto the market, down to which exact transistor out of the billions is most likely to fail. they know the exact coefficient of thermal expansion of every part it is made of, and what stresses are paired with that. nvidia cant use another trainwreck like that xbox GPU back in the day.

 

false. just downright false.. i dont know how to explain to you that they do, because you cannot make a blind man see.

 

yeah no.. they dont. but they have an extremely good idea of the expected lifespan of all the components inside it, and they wouldnt give that warranty if they arent absolutely certain the great majority of them will survive 12 years.. because well, otherwise they are looking at bankruptcy down the road.

 

just.. no. you seriously need to stop snorting tin foil if you believe that your GPU will selfdestruct if you dont keep it at room temperature. i have a quite extensive parts shelf, a lot of what's on there has lead a very harsh life near ot at TJmax.

 

marketing <=> engineering.

 

there is one highly specific usecase where it will be 3x speed, so marketing runs away with that.

that doesnt mean that engineering also makes these things fall apart like some comedy sketch.

this is why reviewers exist, and you happen to be on the forum of one of those.

 

having all this said, none of the conspiracy theories above are in any way relevant to running 20 4-fan radiators.

Wow you're so completely delusional I really feel like I rather not even bother replying to this but I will do so anyway.

 

The manufacturers do test their products in development... BUT! BUT! they do NOT test the END PRODUCT for years! The product changes drastically during the process so they have never! Never tested the finalized product for the entire period of the warranty length! Otherwise they would be bankrupt because they're using l these years to pay their employees for development and testing with ZERO sales of these products!

 

Furthermore, your "marketing <=> engineering" take doesn't make any sense. When a manufacturer is listing information, it's not the engineers writing it, it's the marketing people. The marketing people are the ones making all the claims. And you know something about the marketing people? They lie at a constant rate.

 

Even if they quote something an engineer has told them, they twist it to better fill a narrative they can push to their blindly trusting consumers to make the product seem more impressive than it is.

 

Just watch this. Nearly everything they say in their presentations is a lie. Doesn't care if it's the engineers or the marketing people who decided to make up the presentation, that's irrelevant. Since this is what the BRAND is pushing to you! You can't single out one part of the company and act like just because that small division is full of good people then all the claims made by the company body itself are true! That's not how it works!

[manikyath]

Just now, Protomesh said:

Wow you're so completely delusional I really feel like I rather not even bother replying to this but I will do so anyway.

it seems i am a mirror today.

 

1 minute ago, Protomesh said:

The manufacturers do test their products in development... BUT! BUT! they do NOT test the END PRODUCT for years! The product changes drastically during the process so they have never! Never tested the finalized product for the entire period of the warranty length!

the product is tested continuously during development, and any weak points are fixed so that they can reach the reliability their customers expect. that's how products are developed. basicly, by constantly finding the weak points of their product they can eventually end up with a product that is expected to last.

if this is your way of theorizing, you shouldnt be buying food, because the store hasnt tested if every chicken is edible for the duration of the best before date.

 

4 minutes ago, Protomesh said:

Otherwise they would be bankrupt because they're using l these years to pay their employees for development and testing with ZERO sales of these products!

nvidia spends about 7 billion per year on R&D. where do you think that goes? coffee?

 

5 minutes ago, Protomesh said:

Even if they quote something an engineer has told them, they twist it to better fill a narrative they can push to their blindly trusting consumers to make the product seem more impressive than it is.

detach marketing and reliability. marketing is not the debate you're pulling up. you cant say "these are built to fail", and when people disagree pull up "their marketing is dodgy" as if that somehow proves the first point.

besides... this wasnt even the point of this thread at all, it was about cooling, and 20 radiators being outright ridiculous.

 

6 minutes ago, Protomesh said:

Doesn't care if it's the engineers or the marketing people who decided to make up the presentation, that's irrelevant. Since this is what the BRAND is pushing to you! You can't single out one part of the company and act like just because that small division is full of good people then all the claims made by the company body itself are true! That's not how it works!

i give no two hoots what the brand's marketing team says, i want to buy a product that works. and as it turns out.. if a manufacturer has a bad track record for reliability, that's a problem for their marketshare. because at it happens.. people dont like it when things break down, so reliability is of major concern, so a thing they design for.

 

also - any consumer chips we buy are basicly directly related to server counterparts, those things are designed to run 100% 24/7 for a decade. while there's a tad less "safety margin" on consumer gear, history shows (me at least) that stuff sort of.. keeps working, surprisingly?

 

i could use terms like "delusional", and "nutcase", but that doesnt help you understand that your view on things isnt only flawed, your own necessity to preach it to the world is what derailed this thread that actually started with some good advice.

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