Apple’s xrOS headset to be powered by fanny pack battery and to run existing iOS apps in 2D windowed mode

[saltycaramel]

4 hours ago, Kisai said:

 

If it's primarily intended as "AR", like in existing uses of ARKit (head, face, eyes tracking) that might be a good use case for motion capture and vtubers, but "2 hour battery life" is hardly useful in that purpose. So tethering a battery is not impractical there either. The less weight on your head, the better.

 

For VR however, I think intending it as a "game first" device would have been a mistake. Yes, existing BT controllers work on iOS/macOS-derived systems, but there is no standard way of tracking hands. Like go back a bit with the recently released Sony mocopi , that most likely requires monopolization of the phone to do the motion capture, just like how Vtube Studio or ifacialmocap requires monopolization of the device due to needing access to the camera. 

 

If the HMD itself can do the tracking all itself, that would put it in the same tier as mocap suits, but I doubt it will be anything more than head-face-eyes-mouth/shoulders/hands-fingers, since other tracking points (eg feet) require additional sensors since it can't be tracked with cameras or LiDAR.

 

 

 

1) The 2 hours battery life thing is if you need to move around, but if you’re “at your desk” (either sitting or standing up) I think you would just connect the “Magsafe-like” cord to a USB-C power adapter (it was rumored to be a 96W power adapter, which sounds about right with the M2, the “R2”, all those cameras and LIDARs, two bright micro-OLED 4K displays, etc. to power) and not use the waist-mounted battery at all. It sounds like there’s a small battery in the headset itself (that’s why the waist battery is hot swappable). So vtubers could go on all day, just connected to mains power via the 96W USB-C power adapter. No need for the waist-mounted battery when your at your desk or bed or on the couch, if there’s a power outlet nearby.

 

2) It has already leaked that the headset will track legs/feet using the downward facing cameras/LIDAR. I predict hands and fingers will be tracked superbly. Some body parts will be tracked by machine learning extrapolation (it was mentioned by The Information about some parts of the face). Not every body part needs the same level of tracking fidelity. I think the big focus will be on fine tracking of hands, fingers and face. Other body parts just need to be good enough, let’s not overthink it too much. 

[saltycaramel]

Speaking of gaming, am I supposed to believe it’s a mere coincidence that Apple has been working with Capcom and Hello Games to bring respectively RE Village and No Man’s Sky to M1/M2 Macs and that those games are also in the launch line-up of Sony’s PSVR2? 

 

If only Apple had an M2-based headset coming..

 

A third game Apple has been bringing to the Mac, Grid Legends, is not in the PSVR2 launch line-up, but it could be Apple’s answer to GT7 VR (just announced at CES).

 

All of this without being tethered to a PS5, just a waist-mounted battery or power outlet. Sure the PS5 would still be more powerful and have more impressive graphics, the M2 is no M2 Max, still impressive…also Apple could leverage foveated rendering and MetalFX Upscaling to make the M2 GPU punch above its weight…

[mr moose]

On 1/4/2023 at 5:12 AM, BuckGup said:

The article says it even tracks the users legs?? So I am guessing inside out tracking for hand movements/gestures but it's actually usable this time. I would imagine Samsungs headset will leak any day now as well

Brings new meaning to tracksuit.

 

Also I wonder if people like MC Hammer and Peter garret  will able to use these, I imagine their iphones will automatically call 911 and order them a pizza if they start dancing.

 

 

[saltycaramel]

From a newly surfaced patent some possible details about the headband

 

Quote

• The invention also relates to a head-mounted device, comprising: a housing; a fabric band coupled to the housing, wherein the fabric band includes circuitry that comprises: wireless power receiving circuitry configured to receive wireless power; and a conductive strand coupled to the housing, wherein the conductive strand is configured to convey the wireless power from the wireless power receiving circuitry to the housing.

• … wherein the conductive strand forms an inductive wireless power receiving coil that runs entirely around the fabric band.

• … wherein the circuitry further comprises: wireless communications circuitry configured to receive communications signals; and an additional conductive strand coupled to the housing, wherein the additional conductive strand is configured to convey the communications signals from the wireless communications circuitry to the housing.

• … wherein the wireless communications circuitry comprises: a first antenna; and a second antenna orthogonal to the first antenna.

• The conductive strand of the head-mounted device is one of a plurality of conductive strands and wherein the circuitry further comprises: sensors that include electrodes formed from the conductive strands.

• The sensors in the head-mounted device are selected from the group consisting of: a blood pressure sensor, a respiration rate sensor, a blood oxygen sensor, and an electrocardiogram sensor.

• The fabric band of the head-mounted device comprises first fabric strands with a first elasticity and second fabric strands of a second elasticity that is less than the first elasticity, and wherein the conductive strand is intertwined with the fabric strands through loops of the second fabric strands.

 

https://www.patentlyapple.com/2023/01/apple-invents-a-smart-metal-fabric-health-and-communications-band-for-apple-watch-and-a-future-mixed-reality-headset.html

 

(note: specific patent details may end up in products years later, or never) 

[saltycaramel]

And here’s the ultrasonic haptic thimbles

 

Quote

Apple has been working on this invention since 2019 and has now updated this invention with 20 new patent claims that are designed to better protect this invention. Below are 10 of the 20 new patent claims.

• A finger device configured to be worn on a finger of a user, comprising: a housing configured to be coupled to the finger, wherein the housing has a U shape with first and second opposing sides configured to rest respectively on first and second opposing sides of the finger; and sensors coupled to the housing, wherein the sensors are configured to produce sensor data indicating whether a finger pad surface of the finger is in contact with an external surface and whether the user is making finger gestures, and wherein the sensors are configured to detect a direction and amount of force with which the finger pad surface drags across the external surface.
• Wherein the sensors of the finger device comprise a two-dimensional ultrasonic imaging sensor, wherein the finger device further comprises a haptic output device configured to supply haptic output to the finger.
• The finger device includes a two-dimensional ultrasonic sensor mounted on the first side of the housing.
• The finger device further includes control circuitry configured to: gather the sensor data as the finger moves; detect finger gestures based on the sensor data; and send user input signals to an external electronic device based on the finger gestures.
• The finger device include sensors that comprise of an ultrasonic signal emitter and an ultrasonic signal detector.
• The finger device's ultrasonic signal emitter is mounted to the first side and wherein the ultrasonic signal detector is mounted to the second side.
• The finger device's housing extends along a longitudinal axis of the finger and wherein the sensors comprise an ultrasonic signal emitter coupled to the first side and configured to emit ultrasonic signals along the longitudinal axis.
• The finger device's housing extends along a longitudinal axis of the finger and wherein the sensors comprise an ultrasonic signal emitter coupled to the first side and configured to emit ultrasonic signals along a direction perpendicular to the longitudinal axis.
• A finger device configured to be worn on a finger of a user will comprise: a U-shaped housing having first and second portions configured to rest respectively on first and second opposing sides of the finger without covering a lower finger pad surface of the finger; strain gauge circuitry configured to receive strain measurements as U-shaped housing bends; and control circuitry configured to detect finger gestures based on the strain measurements and send control signals to a head-mounted device based on the finger gestures, wherein the control circuitry compares the strain measurements from the first and second strain gauges to determine a force and direction with which the finger drags laterally across an external surface.
• The finger device further comprises a haptic output device coupled to the U-shaped housing, wherein the control circuitry is configured to gather the strain measurements from the strain gauge circuitry as the finger moves and configured to provide haptic output to the finger using the haptic output device.

 

https://www.patentlyapple.com/2023/01/apple-invents-u-shaped-finger-accessory-devices-for-head-mounted-devices-with-ultrasonic-sensors-that-sense-motion-in-air-ge.html

 

Minority Report is now our present. 

[hishnash]

13 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

also Apple could leverage foveated rendering and MetalFX Upscaling to make the M2 GPU punch above its weight…

If apple has a nice low latency eye tracking then they can use very aggressive variable rate shading (foveated rendering).  One of the issues with this on PC is the latency from headset to OS to game engine to gpu frame to being displayed is at best 30ms but within that time your eyes can move a lot so it cant be very aggressive.  

If apple however close the loop on that latency have have the eye tracking info piped directly into shared memory that the gpu can read directly it can skip the os, game engine, gpu drivers etc and all the latency that introduces and instead be used directly on the next frame or even mid frame render.  This type of deep hardware to gpu latency work is something apple have been very good at in the past with things like the Apple Pencil latency. 

[saltycaramel]

42 minutes ago, hishnash said:

If apple has a nice low latency eye tracking then they can use very aggressive variable rate shading (foveated rendering).  One of the issues with this on PC is the latency from headset to OS to game engine to gpu frame to being displayed is at best 30ms but within that time your eyes can move a lot so it cant be very aggressive.  

If apple however close the loop on that latency have have the eye tracking info piped directly into shared memory that the gpu can read directly it can skip the os, game engine, gpu drivers etc and all the latency that introduces and instead be used directly on the next frame or even mid frame render.  This type of deep hardware to gpu latency work is something apple have been very good at in the past with things like the Apple Pencil latency. 

 

John Carmack also talked about this issue at his last Meta Connect day unscripted talk:

 

https://youtu.be/ouq5yyzSiAw?t=1871

 

So PCs aren’t there yet.

Meta Quests aren’t there yet.

 

Can Apple be the first to get “there”? (i.e. an eye tracking latency small enough to allow for aggressive foveated rendering)

 

We’ll know in a couple of months.

(also, Sony’s PSVR2 supposedly supports foveated rendering as well)

[hishnash]

9 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

Can Apple be the first to get “there”? (i.e. an eye tracking latency small enough to allow for aggressive foveated rendering)

Much of the technical choses apple has made with metal and how the memory arc of thier systems works means they are very well placed to build very low latency rendering stacks.    In addition to the memory and data flow of metal the selection of a TBDR gpu means that the shading happens later in the pipeline and is easier to apply aggressive culling and eye position based foveation based on eye position captured even mid frame. 

 

 

9 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

also, Sony’s PSVR2 supposedly supports foveated rendering as well

I expect this will be a rather gentle application not as aggressive as one can be with lower latency. 

[Kisai]

On 1/5/2023 at 12:14 AM, saltycaramel said:

 

2) It has already leaked that the headset will track legs/feet using the downward facing cameras/LIDAR. I predict hands and fingers will be tracked superbly. Some body parts will be tracked by machine learning extrapolation (it was mentioned by The Information about some parts of the face). Not every body part needs the same level of tracking fidelity. I think the big focus will be on fine tracking of hands, fingers and face. Other body parts just need to be good enough, let’s not overthink it too much. 

I don't see how. Breasts and Stomachs are a thing. Unless it comes with a warning that feet tracking will only work if you're flat as a board.

 

If I have to guess, it likely tracks ground parallax motion, not the actual feet. But that would make the feet motion work closer to that of an optical mouse.

 

[saltycaramel]

47 minutes ago, Kisai said:

I don't see how. Breasts and Stomachs are a thing. Unless it comes with a warning that feet tracking will only work if you're flat as a board.

 

If I have to guess, it likely tracks ground parallax motion, not the actual feet. But that would make the feet motion work closer to that of an optical mouse.

 

 

You raise a good point but I think feet, even if masked by breast/belly while standing still, would become visible to the LIDARs once you start walking, for most body types. But yes probably they’d use a combination of inputs and inferences based on other sensors (accelerometers, gyroscopes, etc.). Again I think we risk overthinking the tracking of less important body parts (compared to hands and face). I think the tracking of legs and feet is supposed to be barely enough to give legs to an avatar, not aspiring to minutely track/mocap Fred Astaire style tip-tap feet movements. 

[saltycaramel]

So, after the Meta Quest Pro and before the Apple Lens xrOS headset, there’s a new (ski-goggle-y) premium stand-alone mixed reality headset in town: the HTC Vive XR Elite.

 

 

1099$ before taxes in US (Meta Quest Pro: 1499$)

1399€ after taxes in EU (Meta Quest Pro: 1799€)

 

Like the Meta Quest Pro it uses a back of the head battery, but this one is hot swappable.

 

All 3 headsets (Apple’s, Meta and HTC) last around ~2 hours, but the Quest Pro’s battery is not swappable. 

 

Meta and HTC have ~1920x1920 per eye, Apple has 4096x4096 per eye.

 

Meta and HTC have manual IPD setting, Apple has motorized and automatic IPD autosetting.

 

Meta and HTC have a smartphone-grade SoC, Apple has a laptop-grade M2 SoC (and it needs to be cooled properly).

 

Meta uses a 45W usb-c PD charger, HTC uses a 30W usb-c PD charger, Apple is rumored to use a 96W usb-c PD charger.

 

HTC and Meta weigh 600-700g, Apple weighs 300-400g. (the head mounted part, minus the waist mounted battery)

 

All of this to say: if HTC/Meta cost 1099$/1499$ with those specs, I’m afraid Apple’s headset is gonna be really pricey, for real (some still hope for a last minute price switcheroo, like in 2010 when the iPad was rumored to cost 1000$ and it actually launched at 500$). The saving grace could be that Meta and HTC include gaming controllers in the box (and really pricey ones at that in the case of Meta), whereas Apple will not, so that’s like 200$ shaved off Apple’s price. 

 

Ain’t gonna be cheap…dat 4Kx4K per eye tho..

[Thaldor]

If the leaked pictures are right I see one huge problem: There is no vertical support for the headset. Not to say it's Apple only, @saltycaramelprovided good picture of a HTC one suffering from the same problem.

 

There is a reason why a much lighter (mostly plastic, only screens and almost every other hardware mounted to external box) Oculus Rift Prototype and Concept render from the manufacturing one done from the prototype were canned, lack of vertical support and need of really tightening the headset to your face (and I mean really, the Oakley strap was as tight as possible to play the Doom 3 VR with Carmack Next to you and it still felt like sliping and suffocating your nose). The DK1 had almost aftertought vertical support (strap over your head) solution and from the DK2 it has been pretty much required feature of a headset. The fact just is the need of horizontal force to counter vertical force is massive, as in if you set two horses pulling a 10m rope to opposite directions and place 1kg weight in the middle of the rope, you can change the horses to bulldozers and even they have a hard time getting that rope perfectly straight.

 

PSVR and other headsets with "set" headband have fixed this problem by placing the headband above the headset and so to the much smaller part of the skull and so being able to counter the gravity. Other ones like the OG Vive, DK1-Rift, Gear VR and much more use the over the head elastic/adjustable strap that counter the gravity and takes the weight of the headset from your nose (your nose is mostly soft tissue, if the headset doesn't have form fit rising to the bone part of the nose, it will be uncomfortable and even if it reaches up to the nose bone, it will still be uncomfortable unless it weights more compared to regular glasses than VR headsets and is set and adjustable like glasses).

 

Now to the weight problem. Leaks say Apple is going to be reducing weight with glass and metal...

... ... ... ... ... I am expecting someone else also find the problem with that... ... ...

... No one? Okay, every metal and especially glass are stronger than plastic but also heavier than plastic. The aluminium frame alone in the rendered pictures is probably heavier than the bare frame of the OG Vive and Rift because that much lighter plastic is from the aluminium. Lenses are what would weight the most, glass is HEAVY especially optical glass because for optics it isn't as much about the material but the optical properties of the material and plastics ain't that far from glass in that feature. Not to even start from the glass front of the rendered pictures, that is going to weight a "ton".

[hishnash]

3 hours ago, Thaldor said:

If the leaked pictures are right I see one huge problem: There is no vertical support for the headset. Not to say it's Apple only

I have not seen any leaked images just mockups made by people listing to the title apple headset and going from there. 

 

[Kisai]

3 hours ago, Thaldor said:

If the leaked pictures are right I see one huge problem: There is no vertical support for the headset. Not to say it's Apple only, @saltycaramelprovided good picture of a HTC one suffering from the same problem.

 

One of the things that "VR" HMD manufacturers need to "get over" is how to make things that sit on your head light enough.

 

Like it's bad enough for me to wear a headset (headphones) that it's actually caused bruises and soreness from having to "rest" on the ears. As much as I hate the "earbuds" tech, it's the only kind of headphones that doesn't cause that. However earbuds can't be worn under some conditions because it will trap moisture in your ears and cause ear infections or blockages from earwax build up.

 

I expect Apple is not going to integrate audio directly into it, and instead will be like "buy airpods to use"

 

Moreover when they mention metal and glass, that's likely the screen assembly, not the entire device. I would still be concerned about heat if that is really an M2 in it. If it's driving 2x 4K square images, that seems to be outside the specs of the M2, which only officially supports "2 screens" as in the device itself (eg macbook) and one external. But I'll save judgement on that till someone reviews it. (Most "you can add two or more external monitors to a macbook/mini" stories involve DisplayLink, which emulates a GPU, it's not driven by the device GPU.)

 

Let's not get too optimistic. Apple has a tendency to overhype the capabilities of it's devices, while having subpar performance. Apple is in a better position than HTC and Occulus, but only by virtue of being able to build their own SoC, so they can make the best trade-off in performance (let's be serious, other "all-in-one" HMD's fall extremely far behind a desktop-PC driven one in performance, which leaves one to guess the intent of being corporate virtual meetings rather than gaming, something that's been soundly rejected.)

[saltycaramel]

4 hours ago, Thaldor said:

If the leaked pictures are right I see one huge problem: There is no vertical support for the headset. Not to say it's Apple only, @saltycaramelprovided good picture of a HTC one suffering from the same problem.

 

There is a reason why a much lighter (mostly plastic, only screens and almost every other hardware mounted to external box) Oculus Rift Prototype and Concept render from the manufacturing one done from the prototype were canned, lack of vertical support and need of really tightening the headset to your face (and I mean really, the Oakley strap was as tight as possible to play the Doom 3 VR with Carmack Next to you and it still felt like sliping and suffocating your nose). The DK1 had almost aftertought vertical support (strap over your head) solution and from the DK2 it has been pretty much required feature of a headset. The fact just is the need of horizontal force to counter vertical force is massive, as in if you set two horses pulling a 10m rope to opposite directions and place 1kg weight in the middle of the rope, you can change the horses to bulldozers and even they have a hard time getting that rope perfectly straight.

 

PSVR and other headsets with "set" headband have fixed this problem by placing the headband above the headset and so to the much smaller part of the skull and so being able to counter the gravity. Other ones like the OG Vive, DK1-Rift, Gear VR and much more use the over the head elastic/adjustable strap that counter the gravity and takes the weight of the headset from your nose (your nose is mostly soft tissue, if the headset doesn't have form fit rising to the bone part of the nose, it will be uncomfortable and even if it reaches up to the nose bone, it will still be uncomfortable unless it weights more compared to regular glasses than VR headsets and is set and adjustable like glasses).

 

Now to the weight problem. Leaks say Apple is going to be reducing weight with glass and metal...

... ... ... ... ... I am expecting someone else also find the problem with that... ... ...

... No one? Okay, every metal and especially glass are stronger than plastic but also heavier than plastic. The aluminium frame alone in the rendered pictures is probably heavier than the bare frame of the OG Vive and Rift because that much lighter plastic is from the aluminium. Lenses are what would weight the most, glass is HEAVY especially optical glass because for optics it isn't as much about the material but the optical properties of the material and plastics ain't that far from glass in that feature. Not to even start from the glass front of the rendered pictures, that is going to weight a "ton".

 

Counterpoint: how much do actual ski goggles (for skiing/snowboarding) weigh and how do they stay up? Is it true that some models weigh more than 300g? That would put the rumored weight of Apple’s headset (“300-400g”) in the ballpark of the heaviest kind of ski goggles. Ski goggles, just like Apple headset’s rumored design (don’t take that artist rendition as gospel tho), are completely front loaded and have no over-the-head support.

 

It should be pointed out that said “metal” is aluminum, that “glass” can mean a lot of things nowadays (ask Corning) and that supposedly there’s some carbon fiber involved. And that the rumored weight (“300-400g”) doesn’t care about our reasoning about materials.

 

Also, this may be a long shot but some Apple patents have emerged about a self-tightening motorized headband system.

[saltycaramel]

Interesting tidbits from Gurman’s latest newsletter:

 

- internally xrOS 1.0 is codenamed “Borealis”, iOS 17 is “Dawn” and macOS 14 is “Sunburst” (get it?)

 

- a number of high profile 3rd party developers have already received the headset for testing and an head start on app developing: it’s out there somewhere!

 

- the January reveal was a real thing up until recently but ultimately was delayed and it will happen in a spring event (before WWDC)

 

- actual availability would be next fall

[Thaldor]

On 1/8/2023 at 6:36 AM, Kisai said:

One of the things that "VR" HMD manufacturers need to "get over" is how to make things that sit on your head light enough.

 

Like it's bad enough for me to wear a headset (headphones) that it's actually caused bruises and soreness from having to "rest" on the ears. As much as I hate the "earbuds" tech, it's the only kind of headphones that doesn't cause that. However earbuds can't be worn under some conditions because it will trap moisture in your ears and cause ear infections or blockages from earwax build up.

Agreed. The current trend of putting everything and their mom to the headset isn't helping the weight of the headsets. Inside-out tracking requires cameras and they require processing, using USB-C to move all of the data requires more processing, stand-alone features require processing and processing requires cooling and hardware. But actually the biggest part that makes VR headsets that annoying is the size and for that we still don't have answers because by volume the largest things are the lenses and optics as whole.

 

On 1/8/2023 at 7:19 AM, saltycaramel said:

Counterpoint: how much do actual ski goggles (for skiing/snowboarding) weigh and how do they stay up? Is it true that some models weigh more than 300g? That would put the rumored weight of Apple’s headset (“300-400g”) in the ballpark of the heaviest kind of ski goggles. Ski goggles, just like Apple headset’s rumored design (don’t take that artist rendition as gospel tho), are completely front loaded and have no over-the-head support.

 

It should be pointed out that said “metal” is aluminum, that “glass” can mean a lot of things nowadays (ask Corning) and that supposedly there’s some carbon fiber involved. And that the rumored weight (“300-400g”) doesn’t care about our reasoning about materials.

Skiing goggles are around 200-400g typically, you also hopefully have a helmet so it doesn't matter that much how tight or strong the band is because mostly it's affecting the helmet. With ski goggles you also get the question of profile, as in ski goggles usually are about 20-40mm thick as whole but even trying to fit the optics of a VR headset into that space is going to be a hard question because currently the main lenses are something like 5-10mm thick and they cannot directly sit either on your eyeball neither on the screen. Minimizing the lenses is actually one of the hardest questions because optics are PIA, there is just that much you can do by changing the material and most of the thing will come from the geometry and while certain geometries like Fresnel lens can decrease the thickness of the lens a lot, they can also add side-effects (like the god awful god rays on Vive which are because of the Fresnel lenses).

By weight there really isn't anything special if Apple headset would be just 300-400g, for comparison the revision of OG Vive without cables weights 470g (OG 555g) the same as Oculus Rift, with added hardware Facebook Quest 2 is just 500g. Currently the lightest "VR headset" is the Vive Flow with only 190g but that is VERY limited device.

 

And glass is glass, you can add things to it to get different features but in basic it's just glass. While it's amazing what Corning have developed they are still not making glass not glass, mostly Corning is developing the tempering techniques and the shape of the glass, this is why Jerry can still continue scratching things at level 6 and making deeper grooves at level 7, because that's harder than tempered glass. What Corning mostly does is the geometry of the edges of the tempered glass because those are the weakspots of any tempered glass.

Pretty much if Apple is going to go with the all-glass front as the (probably very far from the reality) renders, it's going to be heavy or it's going to be thin, like I don't expect anyone to know this or having seen it, but Vive screen thin glass which is like the whole screen is mm or less thick and it's pretty much built on a glass that breaks if you drop the screen from 1cm height, you can crack it by just pressing down on it while the screen lays flat on solid surface, pretty much you can breath towards it wrong way and it will break.

[saltycaramel]

1 hour ago, Thaldor said:

By weight there really isn't anything special if Apple headset would be just 300-400g,

 

It’s not super special if we take into account that the main battery has been “offshored” to the waist. 

 

But c’mon, it is kinda special that such a powerful stand-alone, laptop grade CPU/GPU power, 8K (!!!) display headset weighs roughly half the weight of its closest premium stand-alone competitor (the Quest Pro). Half! As said, there’s a catch (the fanny pack battery), that’s cheating, but your neck muscles won’t care and will thank you anyway..

[DrMacintosh]

On 1/3/2023 at 9:05 AM, saltycaramel said:

The fanny pack battery is a bit of a letdown

Remember when LTT put a desktop into a backpack for VR and it was the coolest thing in the world? I think a fanny pack is acceptable xD

[DrMacintosh]

On 1/3/2023 at 5:17 PM, Salv8 (sam) said:

they couldn't put the battery in the device?

Look, the point of the headset is to augment reality. Not to enclose yourself in a totally virtual one. They want users to be able to wear it and go outside, this means the headset can't weigh anything. Remember back when we had wired headphones that connected to our phones...that we put in our pockets?! I know it was a few years ago and it seems so crazy now.

[Kisai]

On 1/7/2023 at 9:19 PM, saltycaramel said:

 

Counterpoint: how much do actual ski goggles (for skiing/snowboarding) weigh and how do they stay up?

Depending on what era they are from.

 

Ski-goggles alone, just like snorkeling masks, fit over the eyes separately, or over the eye-part of the entire face (and thus glasses can be worn underneath), but they're almost entirely plastic. They stay on your head by elastic-straps. 

 

The major thing, is that ski goggles are only for two reasons: 

- light filtering (so you don't go blind from being surrounded by white, which is why they're usually an orange color)

- wind resistance (you're going down hill at like 100kph sometimes, that's like sticking your head out of a moving car.)

 

It would be foolish to make them out of metal or glass because if you hit something, that's going straight into your eyes.

 

And with VR, that's the same problem when it's enclosed, because you can't see the outside, you are likely to fall on your face. So as far as using glass, it has to be flexible and not shatter if dropped.