Sennheiser HD 560S with or without Amp/Dac?

[JR Fox]

I am running my Sennheiser 560S's off of the new Realtec ALC4080 Audio Codec in the MSI pro z-790A motherboard. So far it sounds fantastic and I have not had any issues with loudness. I am curious how much I would have to spend on an amp/dac to see a reasonable improvement from the motherboard sound. Would it even be worth the upgrade? Any help would be appreciated!!

[Tigerleon]

2 hours ago, JR Fox said:

I am running my Sennheiser 560S's off of the new Realtec ALC4080 Audio Codec in the MSI pro z-790A motherboard. So far it sounds fantastic and I have not had any issues with loudness. I am curious how much I would have to spend on an amp/dac to see a reasonable improvement from the motherboard sound. Would it even be worth the upgrade? Any help would be appreciated!!

Yes it would. Even an amp/DAC combo under the 100$ range can make the sound much better and cleaner if you have interference.

[rice guru]

If it sounds clean and loud enough to you the differences is pretty marginal. The 560s' is a good headphone and will improve from a  better source. now do i think most people will think the difference is worth it? absolutely not.  as the source will just be cleaner than a motherboard you can spend less than $50 to get a dongle that should help with that. but whether you think the difference is worth it or not is really up to you . 

[Stan2292]

a headphone with 120ohm impedence would definitely benefit from an AMP. AMP ensures all frequencies are driven to their fullist and nothing sounds thin. as for a DAC, it depends. the sound card on a modern motherboard usually isn't bad. the problem is that the environment of the inside of a pc case is very hostile to producing clean audio. you have power cables supplying current to equipment that draws hundreds of watts of power. that will sometimes cause interference in the digital to analog conversion. that being said, an external DAC costing less than say $300 only brings marginal to unnoticeable clarify to untrained ears. you'll benefit from a cheap external DAC more if you listen to FLAC or high resolution music.

 

so, AMP = yes. DAC = it depends. if you want to future proof your setup, yes to both.

 

if you are unsure or just experimenting, you can start with usb DAC+AMP dongles that are meant for your phone, like Fiio KA3/Moondrop Dawn etc. they can drive 300ohm headphones and have pretty good DAC chips for high res audio. both are under $100. if you want to start with desktop-sized DACs and AMPs, Schiit Audio is a good brand to start with. they pretty much have the best products in the market in the price range of under $300.

[JR Fox]

9 minutes ago, Stan2292 said:

a headphone with 120ohm impedence would definitely benefit from an AMP. AMP ensures all frequencies are driven to their fullist and nothing sounds thin. as for a DAC, it depends. the sound card on a modern motherboard usually isn't bad. the problem is that the environment of the inside of a pc case is very hostile to producing clean audio. you have power cables supplying current to equipment that draws hundreds of watts of power. that will sometimes cause interference in the digital to analog conversion. that being said, an external DAC costing less than say $300 only brings marginal to unnoticeable clarify to untrained ears. you'll benefit from a cheap external DAC more if you listen to FLAC or high resolution music.

 

so, AMP = yes. DAC = it depends. if you want to future proof your setup, yes to both.

 

if you are unsure or just experimenting, you can start with usb DAC+AMP dongles that are meant for your phone, like Fiio KA3/Moondrop Dawn etc. they can drive 300ohm headphones and have pretty good DAC chips for high res audio. both are under $100. if you want to start with desktop-sized DACs and AMPs, Schiit Audio is a good brand to start with. they pretty much have the best products in the market in the price range of under $300.

Thank you! This is the explanation I was looking for! I am definitely looking for a nice long term DAC/AMP desktop setup. Would a DAC and AMP combo be worth it for under 300? Or would I be better off spending around the same budget for just an AMP and buying a nicer DAC later on?

[Tigerleon]

16 minutes ago, JR Fox said:

Thank you! This is the explanation I was looking for! I am definitely looking for a nice long term DAC/AMP desktop setup. Would a DAC and AMP combo be worth it for under 300? Or would I be better off spending around the same budget for just an AMP and buying a nicer DAC later on?

Try it with an amp first then consider getting a DAC later just to get a cleaner signal and just a better sound overall.

Of course a DAC/amp combo is worth under 300. Get something like a Sound Blaster combo unit or Fiio or any known brand.

[rice guru]

1 hour ago, JR Fox said:

Thank you! This is the explanation I was looking for! I am definitely looking for a nice long term DAC/AMP desktop setup. Would a DAC and AMP combo be worth it for under 300? Or would I be better off spending around the same budget for just an AMP and buying a nicer DAC later on?

If your in the US the schiit magni modi stack is more than what most people need and sits at just over $200 but all depends on what you want to buy for headphones in the future. 

[Stan2292]

5 hours ago, Piecku said:

Not true. You can get a transparent AMP/DAC for $200 such as the Topping DX3 Pro+. Can drive almost any headphone to a very loud level. It performs better than most other DACs and AMPs in the world. How good an amplifier/DAC is can be measured. Don't feed him any 'less than $300 is only marginal improvements' ideas as they are simply not true.

i'm taling about DAC only. you bring AMP into it and claim your strawmanned version of what i said is not true lol. why did you feel the nee to do that?

[JR Fox]

9 hours ago, Piecku said:

Not true. You can get a transparent AMP/DAC for $200 such as the Topping DX3 Pro+. Can drive almost any headphone to a very loud level. It performs better than most other DACs and AMPs in the world. How good an amplifier/DAC is can be measured. Don't feed him any 'less than $300 is only marginal improvements' ideas as they are simply not true.

I did some looking into the Dx3 Pro+ and it looks like a great option, probably one of the best at the price point. That will most likely be the setup I end up going with unless I can find anything with better reviews. Thank you for the help!  

[rice guru]

4 hours ago, JR Fox said:

I did some looking into the Dx3 Pro+ and it looks like a great option, probably one of the best at the price point. That will most likely be the setup I end up going with unless I can find anything with better reviews. Thank you for the help!  

Personally I think trying to keep everything separate allows things to be more upgradable in the future instead of a combo unit going with something like a magni modi stack. Will not only help make things more upgradable but also help in the case where something breaks at least you will have to deal with one unit and not the whole thing. 

[rice guru]

41 minutes ago, Piecku said:

Upgrade to what though? More transparent gear? With a DX3 Pro+ he's at the top of the world already. You can't get anything that's better. Unless you want to buy stuff that alters the sound (which makes it low fidelity).

Having heard the dx3 pro plus and knowing what else is out there you can get stuff with more power or if they did want to and cause preferences exist hop on to something that does alter the sound. They have complete utter freedom to do so. A schiit stack not only offers just as much clarity and transparency as a dx3 pro plus it also provides more utility with not just power but the ability sell specific parts of the setup as I have stated before. And yes as good as the dx3 pro plus you can definitely get something better transparency is not everything in audio. Not everyone in this hobby is the definition of an audiophile I'm certainly not one but still buy gear to listen to caus ei genuinely enjoy just listening to music with my own preference to sound signatures. 

[rice guru]

1 hour ago, Piecku said:

All transparent amplifiers and DACs sound the same, unless actually proven untrue in a properly conducted blind test. All the logical evidence points towards them sounding the same. It's very easy to think they don't due to sighted listening and expectation bias, I've been there. 

I'm well aware and have conducted blind tests as well as have tested third parties myself. I was more arguing there are better options than the dx3 pro plus if you have access to them. The schiit stack's similar level of transparency as well as having the benefits of being a separate dac and amp plus more power makes them a better option imo. But I was also saying I tend to have a preference of gear that actually does purposely color the sound cause you know... Preference. The alterations to the sound actually enhance my enjoyment of the music. Cause personally I couldn't care less about artist's intentions. 

[Stan2292]

On 12/5/2022 at 8:40 AM, Piecku said:

Without the amplifier you could get a DAC that’s just as good but for half the price

nope. it's a pure audio snob myth that a $100-$200 DAC alone brings meaningful upgrade. the sound card that comes with the motherboard is plenty for flac or lower quality audio. cheap DACs do two things better than internal sound cards:

 

1) better shielding against and removing itself from the source of electrical noise

2) producing less total harmonic distortion

 

you don't need a cheap DAC if:

 

1) you haven't experienced noise from electrical interference inside your pc case

2) you can't hear the difference between 0.007% THD & 0.00007% THD (i'm being very generous as 0.0007% THD is what you expect a $2000 DAC to produce)

 

i only suggested external DAC because it future-proofs higher than flac quality audio AND the dongles are DAC+AMP 2 in 1. cheap DAC alone isn't an upgrade by any stretch of the imagination.

[spartaman64]

Heres my personal experience with amps and dacs.
I upgraded from my onboard amp to a liquid spark and got a pretty big improvement probably not a surprise to anyone especially with my headphones at the time being 250 ohms.
Then i got a headphone upgrade and thought I might as well upgrade my amp also and I got an a90. It wasn't as big as onboard to liquid spark but I experienced a pretty significant improvement. At the same time I got an smsl m300 mkii dac but I didn't experience any improvement with that compared to the onboard dac. 
Then i went to canjam and tried out some amps and dacs. I was mostly unimpressed. The benchmark and DCS lina stacks sounded pretty much the same as my a90 smsl m300 stack. I thought the chord hugo tt2 with mscaler might sound a bit better but nowhere near justifying its 12000 dollar price. The burson soloist grand tourer sounded downright horrible imo. If anyone says amps and dacs all sound the same listen to that Kappa. Imo it sounds worse than a dongle. The one that really impressed me with its sound was the rme adi2 pro fs and it was by itself. 

Later I bought the dac version and it sounded as good as I remembered. And when I connected it to my a90 to use as a dac it sounded even better. Is it the dac? I'm not sure maybe it's just the better preamp.