Would upgrading from a Xeon 1620 v2 to a 1650 v2 help with gaming?

[Cyber Akuma]

I have a Dell Precision T3610, it's a Xeon based workstation. 

 

It has a Intel Xeon 1620 v2, it's a 4C8T CPU with a base clock of 3.7GHz and Turbo of 3.9Ghz and 10MB of L3 cache.

 

Apparently my motherboard does support upgrading the CPU to a 1650 v2 

 

The Intel Xeon 1650 v2 is a 6C12T CPU with a base clock of 3.7GHz and Turbo of 3.9Ghz and 12MB of L3 cache. 

 

Other than that they seem to have the same specs, including thankfully the TDP so I can just re-use the existing cooler since I have no idea what my options would be for a Xeon cooler in a proprietary Dell case.

 

The 1650 v2 can be had for under $20 on eBay. Would the additional 2 cores/4threads and 2MB of cache help with using this as a gaming system? Or would it actually hold me back due to the lower base clock speed?

[PDifolco]

Not sure but I suppose it would be equally bad...but 2 more cores will be nice anyway

[Cyber Akuma]

Now I am getting some people telling me that a 1650 v2 is the most it can handle, and others telling me that it can go up to a 2687 v2 or 2697 v2 , though I would need better cooling for that. The 2697W v2 though sounds like it would be a downgrade for gaming while the 2687W v2 could be a decent upgrade... with a better cooler.

Not sure what to trust now, any way I can confirm what I can put in this thing?

[solado]

Both the Xeon 1620 v2 and 1650 v2 are the same archetecure so based on ivy bridge. Honestly the upgrade wouldn't give you much in the way of performance. Gaming isn't that core heavy and a 4c/8t is fine for most games and unless you're hitting 100% usage on the CPU and under 100% on the GPU.

 

Throwing more cores into the mix wouldn't help you get much uplift in gaming and only frquency would help a bit but it wouldn't be world changing, only productivity work loads would benefit from the more core upgrade. If it's primarily gaming you're doing and want to upgrade it would be much more worth your while to save up for a newer platform with a better IPC.

[jaslion]

9 minutes ago, Cyber Akuma said:

Now I am getting some people telling me that a 1650 v2 is the most it can handle, and others telling me that it can go up to a 2687 v2 or 2697 v2 , though I would need better cooling for that. The 2697W v2 though sounds like it would be a downgrade for gaming while the 2687W v2 could be a decent upgrade... with a better cooler.

Not sure what to trust now, any way I can confirm what I can put in this thing?

What are your goals here. What the issue with it now. What gpu do you currently have?

 

The current cpu is basically a i7 3770. Pretty much the minimum cpu to get 60fps in current games. The 2 extra cores for the 1650v2 will give you a more stable gaming experience but not extra fps (unless in very heavy multithreaded games) the other even higher core count cpu's won't really do better the difference between a 1650v2 and a 2687w v2 is going to be very very very small for games.

 

You have to keep your expectations in check tho. The single core performance of all these chips is low and basically min spec for the big AAA games. Totally fine now but of course not for many more years.

 

If its what you have and you want to start gaming on a small budget it's a good start and i'd just add a gpu for now or if you have 20$ left over to spend get the 1650v2

 

[Cyber Akuma]

19 minutes ago, solado said:

Throwing more cores into the mix wouldn't help you get much uplift in gaming and only frquency would help a bit but it wouldn't be world changing, only productivity work loads would benefit from the more core upgrade. If it's primarily gaming you're doing and want to upgrade it would be much more worth your while to save up for a newer platform with a better IPC.

 

It's my backup PC, but currently my main PC as my actual main PC is down and being worked on (and has been down for quite a while now...). I do both gaming and workloads on it. More workloads once I get my actual main PC up and running again.

 

I wasn't going to bother with CPU upgrades for this at first, but since I just found out that some of the CPUs that can effectively double my cores and more than double my L3 cache are pretty cheap, I figured it wouldn't hurt... as long as it doesn't significantly hurt my gaming performance.

 

Doing more research, seems like the sweet spot would be a 2667 v2... IF the motherboard can handle it. Those seem to go for roughly about $25 with shipping, and are the same TDP as my current 1620 v2 so I assume I can re-use the cooler? (I saw that the Noctua NH-U9DX i4 would also fit in this case perfectly... but its $65, I don't want to buy a $65 cooler for a used $25 CPU if the existing cooler is more than adequate for it)

 

The 2667 v2 has twice the cores and threads, and 25MB of L3 cache... even has a very veyr tiny higher turbo speed of 4ghz over the 1620 v2's 3.9... but it's base clock is 500mhz slower, 3.7ghz vs 3.3ghz, so that part worries me if it can have a significant impact.

 

23 minutes ago, jaslion said:

What are your goals here. What the issue with it now. What gpu do you currently have?

 

Just to squeeze out what performance I can for both gaming and productivity... hopefully without impacting one for the other, if I can do it for cheap.

 

My current GPU is a joke, a Quadro K4000, but I am planning to upgrade that once/if GPU prices get cheaper. Thing is while my PSU is 675 watts which is not too bad... it only has a single 8-pin connector for GPU power. So my GPU options are limited to PCIe power, 1x6 pin, 2x6 pin, or 1x8 pin. I can't do 6x8 or 2x8 or anything 3x. Seems like the GTX 1000 line and RTX 2000 line has some decent GPUs in that range, maxing out at a RTX 2060 if I can get one cheap in the future.

[solado]

10 minutes ago, Cyber Akuma said:

 

It's my backup PC, but currently my main PC as my actual main PC is down and being worked on (and has been down for quite a while now...). I do both gaming and workloads on it. More workloads once I get my actual main PC up and running again.

It's worth it in that case as the workloads will be a priority when you get your main PC back and for the sake of a few $ you could spend in an evening meal it's worth it.

 

You're also right about the cache making a difference. I guess it's just setting expectations you will get a few fps uplift but it's not going to be a big generational leap, expect something like a 7-10% boost.

 

You can reuse the same cooler, will be fine.

[Cyber Akuma]

8 minutes ago, solado said:

You're also right about the cache making a difference. I guess it's just setting expectations you will get a few fps uplift but it's not going to be a big generational leap, expect something like a 7-10% boost.

 

Yeah, I am not expecting some night-and-day difference. To be honest, for a used $25 CPU upgrade my expectations are basically : I am ok if it even performs the same in games, I just hope it's at least not going to perform worse due to the 500mhz slower base clock.

 

Any idea of this could be a downgrade for gaming? Or if at worst I will just get the same performance?

[jaslion]

20 minutes ago, Cyber Akuma said:

 

Yeah, I am not expecting some night-and-day difference. To be honest, for a used $25 CPU upgrade my expectations are basically : I am ok if it even performs the same in games, I just hope it's at least not going to perform worse due to the 500mhz slower base clock.

 

Any idea of this could be a downgrade for gaming? Or if at worst I will just get the same performance?

Depending on how much cpu useage there is during gaming it should have similar boosting behavior.

[toasty99]

What is the motherboard model exactly? Is this a prebuilt and if so which one? 

 

The Xeon 1650v2 is gonna be a highly appealing option if you can overclock it. Heck you can even overclock the 1620 you have now potentially. 

 

There's a few tricks HP z420 users had done to manage overclocking on their prebuilts for example:

 

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Business-PCs-Workstations-and-Point-of-Sale-Systems/z420-z620-overcklock/td-p/6853518

 

I was actually really annoyed with LTT's recent video recommending a 2687w in their z420 prebuilt. Linus and his team could've got a lot better performance using an Xeon 1650 chip and xtu/throttle stop trickery with their z420 prebuilt to get an overclock and a better gaming machine. 

[Cyber Akuma]

3 hours ago, toasty99 said:

What is the motherboard model exactly?

Doesn't seem to have anything written on it, but Hwinfo64 says "DELL 09M8Y8".

 

3 hours ago, toasty99 said:

Is this a prebuilt and if so which one? 

Prebuilt, as I mentioned it's a Dell Precision T3610

 

3 hours ago, toasty99 said:

The Xeon 1650v2 is gonna be a highly appealing option if you can overclock it. Heck you can even overclock the 1620 you have now potentially. 

 

Actually, it seems like this system might be able to take up to a 2697v2. If that's the case, I am thinking that the 2667v2 would be my best bet, since the 2697v2 while it goes for around $45-60 on eBay has a significantly lower base clock of 2.7ghz, likely due to being a 12C24T CPU with 30MB of L3 cache. The next step down, the 2687W v2 doesn't seem like a good idea either mostly because it goes for over $100 on eBay right now and has a higher TDP of 150 from my current 130 so I would likely need a better cooler too.

 

The 2667v2 however is a 8C16T CPU with 25MB of L3 cache for the same 130TDP, and goes for around $25 on eBay.

 

My only concern with that one is that while it has a slightly faster turbo clock of 4GHZ over my 3.9, it's base clock is a significantly slower 3.3Ghz over my 3.7, so I hope that doesn't cause much of an impact.

 

As for overclocking, I doubt this Dell Workstation's BIOS would even allow me. Even if it did, I would need better cooling. And the only cooler I am aware of that would fit in this case and with the RAM cooling ducts would be the Noctua NH-U9DX i4, which is $65, nearly three times the cost of what the CPU would be.

 

3 hours ago, toasty99 said:

I was actually really annoyed with LTT's recent video recommending a 2687w in their z420 prebuilt. Linus and his team could've got a lot better performance using an Xeon 1650 chip and xtu/throttle stop trickery with their z420 prebuilt to get an overclock and a better gaming machine. 

 

Funny you bring up that video, because I just saw that and it's what made me realize that I might have a CPU upgrade path for my system. Although in his situation his system was locked down to Sandy Bridge and mine is Ivy Bridge.

 

All of this is of course assuming that my system CAN handle a 2667v2 since the official documents by Dell say it only goes up to a 1650v2... but those documents are old and it's in Dell's best interests to make you think you need to buy a whole new system to get a 2000v2 series CPU, as well as several people on forums saying they have done this, but I can't get any official confirmation that it would work.

[Pasi123]

The lower base clock of the E5-2667 v2 shouldn't be a problem because it's probably never going to run at that speed thanks to turbo.

 

[Cyber Akuma]

7 hours ago, Pasi123 said:

The lower base clock of the E5-2667 v2 shouldn't be a problem because it's probably never going to run at that speed thanks to turbo.

 

Oh, I was only seeing base clock and single core turbo speeds, I wasn't aware there was different levels of Turbo depending on how many cores are being used. Yeah, that should be fine then.

 

Now I just have to look into if the stock cooler will be enough. The TDP is the same so you would think it would be, but some places are saying the 2667v2 runs hotter than my 1620v2 and recommend an aftermarket cooler. Issue is, the only cooler that would fit is alone $65... and needs a $12 adapter and modifications to fit... and even then I would have to remove my RAM ducks supposedly (though others claimed it will fit with them still there) so that could be a mess if the stock cooler can't handle the 2667v2.

[toasty99]

I did some digging and there's definitely examples of people overclocking a tiny bit using throttlestop/xtu exploits on the 3610. 

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/throttlestop-overclocking-desktop-pcs.235975/page-52

 

That thread is filled with info but some of it isn't relevant for your system. Again though, you can try this out even on the 1620 you currently have and get more performance today. 

[Cyber Akuma]

Thanks. To be fair though, I am likely not going to overclock. It would cost more to beef up my cooling than to just replace the CPU. Apparently I would need an additional $15-20 in parts to retro-fit that $65 cooler onto my system, and my current 1620v2 seems to slightly exceed(?) it's Tmax by a few degrees on Prime95 with the stock cooler. The last thing I want to do is make this system run hotter. (Not to mention it's NOISY when it does. Not like it would be easy or cheap to replace the proprietary fan setup to make it quieter).

[toasty99]

12 minutes ago, Cyber Akuma said:

Thanks. To be fair though, I am likely not going to overclock. It would cost more to beef up my cooling than to just replace the CPU. Apparently I would need an additional $15-20 in parts to retro-fit that $65 cooler onto my system, and my current 1620v2 seems to slightly exceed(?) it's Tmax by a few degrees on Prime95 with the stock cooler. The last thing I want to do is make this system run hotter. (Not to mention it's NOISY when it does. Not like it would be easy or cheap to replace the proprietary fan setup to make it quieter).

You don't need better cooling to overclock. Your 1620 (a quad core) running at higher turbos is gonna use less power than the 8 core chips you're looking at. Even a 1650 overclocked a bit is gonna be using less power. 

 

It'll only take you 20 minutes to try it on the 1620 and see if the boost helps a bit for now. 

[Cyber Akuma]

4 minutes ago, toasty99 said:

You don't need better cooling to overclock. Your 1620 (a quad core) running at higher turbos is gonna use less power than the 8 core chips you're looking at. Even a 1650 overclocked a bit is gonna be using less power. 

 

It'll only take you 20 minutes to try it on the 1620 and see if the boost helps a bit for now. 

 

I checked the link and apparently I need to use some application to modify my BIOS so then I could try to overclock?

 

Not really something I want to mess with on my backup system when my main system is down. At least if a CPU upgrade doesn't work it takes like 5 minutes to swap the old CPU back in, I don't want to risk corrupting my BIOS from not knowing what I am doing and then spending hours stress-testing if the new OC settings are stable on a system I am using 24/7 that I don't have a backup for because it IS my current backup.

 

If my main system was up and running I would consider it since then if I break this one it would not be a big setback.