tuning fclock on ryzen

[RONOTHAN##]

14 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

what does 14s mean? did you mean cl14?

Flat 14s refers to tCL 14, tRCD 14, and tRP 14. Most good B die should be able to do that, though some AM4 motherboards can't (I have yet to get 3800MHz CL14 to boot on my X570 Taichi on kits I know can do that speed). You do want to adjust more settings than just tCL, the other primary timings and the subtimings arguably have a bigger impact on performance than tCL in anything but the most synthetic of benchmarks (unless tCL is set stupid high like 30)

 

18 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

Ive been trying to tune the impedances and procodt, ik they help stability but have no idea to test which value works best. rn i have odt: 40ohm, and the other ones at 40,20,24,24

i didnt set them back to auto when i entered 3800 cl16. maybe that can get me to cl15 or even cl14

The termination resistances and everything are very particular to the memory kit and the motherboard. For the most part, the motherboard does a good enough job with them at stock, and in my experience the only one that really effects memory stability is (at least with GDM enabled, I'm too lazy to bother with disable it for the relatively minimal performance improvements) AddrCmdDrvStr, dropping that down to 20 can usually help. Otherwise, the motherboard usually does a good enough job and should only really be touched if you run into issues. 

 

The way you tell if they helped is to run a stress test. Linpack Xtreme does a pretty good job at testing memory stability somewhat quickly (if my memory crashed, it would crash within the first 4 tests, and if it passed that it passed everything else), If changing it makes it crash quicker, it's bad, and if it makes it take more time to crash/it doesn't crash, it's better. 

[freeagent]

24 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

what does 14s mean? did you mean cl14?

You weren't sure if you had bdie  or not, so I said set it to flat 14s at 3800 with 1.5v. If it boots its bdie..

 

I can only do flat 14s up to 1866 then I have to switch to 14-15-15. I just run flat 15s with a tight trfc.

 

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

AFAIK G.Skill gets the chip manufacturers to put their logo on it instead of their own, so even that isn't guaranteed to work. 

Well that’s an easy one.  If gskill wants to hide what their chips actually are they can’t be bought from.  “Just trust us” says the corporations. “No.” Replies the badly bruised public who have tried that one before.

[rippy4500]

18 minutes ago, freeagent said:

You weren't sure if you had bdie  or not, so I said set it to flat 14s at 3800 with 1.5v. If it boots its bdie..

 

I can only do flat 14s up to 1866 then I have to switch to 14-15-15. I just run flat 15s with a tight trfc.

 

 

i still dont know what you mean by "flat 14s" sorry if im probably just being really dumb

i downloaded zentimings like you did and these are what im using rn.

 

edit: i get what 14s means now im just being super dumb, ill give it a try now.

[rippy4500]

58 minutes ago, freeagent said:

You weren't sure if you had bdie  or not, so I said set it to flat 14s at 3800 with 1.5v. If it boots its bdie..

 

I can only do flat 14s up to 1866 then I have to switch to 14-15-15. I just run flat 15s with a tight trfc.

 

 

didnt even get close to that, i got 16-21-21, 16-20-20 worked but was super unstable

[rippy4500]

2 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Flat 14s refers to tCL 14, tRCD 14, and tRP 14. Most good B die should be able to do that, though some AM4 motherboards can't (I have yet to get 3800MHz CL14 to boot on my X570 Taichi on kits I know can do that speed). You do want to adjust more settings than just tCL, the other primary timings and the subtimings arguably have a bigger impact on performance than tCL in anything but the most synthetic of benchmarks (unless tCL is set stupid high like 30)

 

The termination resistances and everything are very particular to the memory kit and the motherboard. For the most part, the motherboard does a good enough job with them at stock, and in my experience the only one that really effects memory stability is (at least with GDM enabled, I'm too lazy to bother with disable it for the relatively minimal performance improvements) AddrCmdDrvStr, dropping that down to 20 can usually help. Otherwise, the motherboard usually does a good enough job and should only really be touched if you run into issues. 

 

The way you tell if they helped is to run a stress test. Linpack Xtreme does a pretty good job at testing memory stability somewhat quickly (if my memory crashed, it would crash within the first 4 tests, and if it passed that it passed everything else), If changing it makes it crash quicker, it's bad, and if it makes it take more time to crash/it doesn't crash, it's better. 

i was doing 3800c16 for a while and no matter what timings i used it was unstable, cl17 was bad too. its probably because i have a low end b450 mobo, (gigabyte b450m ds3h) its probably making the signal from the memory controller to the ram bad.

 

linpack made my cpu shoot up to 95c is that normal? however it didnt crash

[RONOTHAN##]

1 hour ago, rippy4500 said:

didnt even get close to that, i got 16-21-21, 16-20-20 worked but was super unstable

yup, that's not B die. That seems more like Samsung D die (a memory chip I forgot existed, you don't see it super often in kits you wanna overclock, it's not super impressive but it's definitely a lot better than C die). It scales with voltage, and 1.45-1.5V should be safe.

 

53 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

i was doing 3800c16 for a while and no matter what timings i used it was unstable, cl17 was bad too. its probably because i have a low end b450 mobo, (gigabyte b450m ds3h) its probably making the signal from the memory controller to the ram bad.

That doesn't help, though the memory chip just doesn't tighten up a ton. 

[rippy4500]

2 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

yup, that's not B die. That seems more like Samsung D die (a memory chip I forgot existed, you don't see it super often in kits you wanna overclock, it's not super impressive but it's definitely a lot better than C die). It scales with voltage, and 1.45-1.5V should be safe.

 

That doesn't help, though the memory chip just doesn't tighten up a ton. 

how do i check wether i have b die, c die, or d die? 

whatever i have i bet the motherboard is limiting it.

[RONOTHAN##]

4 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

how do i check wether i have b die, c die, or d die? 

whatever i have i bet the motherboard is limiting it.

You really can't, it's just that the behavior it's exhibiting is very similar to what D die does. B die does very low tRCD (the second timing) and other timings, C die doesn't scale with voltage, and D die does relatively low CAS latency with pretty loose other timings. A fairly typical D die overclock is 3800MHz CL17-20-20-35 @ 1.41V, which is not far off from what you've got. The memory topology on the motherboard you've got is probably why 17-20-20 isn't stable. 

 

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/oc-test-mit-samsung-8gbit-d-die-k4a8g085wd.1268891/

 

That should give some starting points for what overclocks are achievable. 

[rippy4500]

7 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

You really can't, it's just that the behavior it's exhibiting is very similar to what D die does. B die does very low tRCD (the second timing) and other timings, C die doesn't scale with voltage, and D die does relatively low CAS latency with pretty loose other timings. A fairly typical D die overclock is 3800MHz CL17-20-20-35 @ 1.41V, which is not far off from what you've got. The memory topology on the motherboard you've got is probably why 17-20-20 isn't stable. 

 

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/oc-test-mit-samsung-8gbit-d-die-k4a8g085wd.1268891/

 

That should give some starting points for what overclocks are achievable. 

ok so i should try loosening my other timings and tightening my cas latency? So i should buy a new motherboard to get it stable?

[RONOTHAN##]

Just now, rippy4500 said:

ok so i should try loosening my other timings and tightening my cas latency? So i should buy a new motherboard to get it stable?

I wouldn't bother getting a new motherboard, your current board should be good enough, and it's not worth the effort to get maybe an extra 1-2 ticks on some of your timings. Loosening all your timings until it's stable, then start going 1 by 1 to see how far you can tighten it. 

 

I'd also probably enable GDM. Yes, it does hurt performance, but not by that much, and it makes your memory a lot easier to get stable. 

[rippy4500]

1 hour ago, RONOTHAN## said:

I wouldn't bother getting a new motherboard, your current board should be good enough, and it's not worth the effort to get maybe an extra 1-2 ticks on some of your timings. Loosening all your timings until it's stable, then start going 1 by 1 to see how far you can tighten it. 

 

I'd also probably enable GDM. Yes, it does hurt performance, but not by that much, and it makes your memory a lot easier to get stable. 

yeah i was afraid i would have to do that, also i remember there was a way to check what type of die my ram has, but i dont remember what program it was that did it. Hwinfo shows that i have samsung but doesnt say any more than that.

 

edit: turned gear down mode to auto and it seems stable now, however i still need 1.5 volts for 3800 cl16

[RONOTHAN##]

22 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

also i remember there was a way to check what type of die my ram has

Thaiphoon Burner. It's not perfect, especially with Samsung memory, but it's worth trying. 

 

23 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

however i still need 1.5 volts for 3800 cl16

That's what I'd expect, 3800 CL16 is fairly aggressive for D die. 

 

25 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

edit: turned gear down mode to auto and it seems stable now

Do some stability tests overnight, Linpack Xtreme for a couple hours, HCI memtest, etc. just to make sure it's stable. Memory crashes are pretty annoying. 

[rippy4500]

On 5/25/2022 at 1:10 AM, RONOTHAN## said:

Thaiphoon Burner. It's not perfect, especially with Samsung memory, but it's worth trying. 

 

That's what I'd expect, 3800 CL16 is fairly aggressive for D die. 

 

Do some stability tests overnight, Linpack Xtreme for a couple hours, HCI memtest, etc. just to make sure it's stable. Memory crashes are pretty annoying. 

hey i know this is an old post now but after days of f-ing with this i think i know why it was crashing, my tras and trc timings were too tight.

[RONOTHAN##]

51 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

hey i know this is an old post now but after days of f-ing with this i think i know why it was crashing, my tras and trc timings were too tight.

That'll do it. How's stability now? Did you do some sort of overnight stress test?

[rippy4500]

1 hour ago, RONOTHAN## said:

That'll do it. How's stability now? Did you do some sort of overnight stress test?

i just changed them now, i just know that it doesnt immediately blue screen thats all. i havent had time to test.

 

edit: still unstable, i needed 58 tras(max my bios can set) and 95 trc for it to be stable, im running 16-21-21-22 right now. i think trp was also causing instability, ill put it to 23 or 24 and see if i can run lower trc.

 

edit again: after fiddling with timings for like 30 minutes and it still not being stable i have no idea whats going on, even with SUPER loose timings it doesnt work. heres a screenshot of zentimings (enabling gear down mode doesnt work either so i just left it off)