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Small 3D LiDAR Modules

Dash Lambda
By Dash Lambda
in Hobby Electronics
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Hello! Been a while since I posted here, but I figure if anyone can help you guys probably can.

 

So, I'm working on a project for which I really want 3D LiDAR. This project has tight space constraints, the LiDAR module would have to fit within about a cubic inch. The smallest easily-available 3D LiDAR modules I can find are closer to 2" cubed, which is simply too big.

 

I know Apple has had 3D LiDAR integrated into the camera cluster on the iPhone and iPad for a little while now, so tiny modules do exist. Sony has a new ToF chip that they built a MEMS LiDAR device around, but that's currently only available as evaluation hardware, I'm probably not getting my hands on it anytime soon.

 

Do any of you know of a 3D LiDAR module that fits my size constraints and is even remotely easily available right now?

"Do as I say, not as I do."

-Because you actually care if it makes sense.

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What's your purpose? The iphone/ipad sensor IS a multi-point ToF sensor but it's very low resolution.

 

 

F@H
Desktop: i9-13900K, ASUS Z790-E, 64GB DDR5-6000 CL36, RTX3080, 2TB MP600 Pro XT, 2TB SX8200Pro, 2x16TB Ironwolf RAID0, Corsair HX1200, Antec Vortex 360 AIO, Thermaltake Versa H25 TG, Samsung 4K curved 49" TV, 23" secondary, Mountain Everest Max

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Asus Zenbook UM325UA, Ryzen 7 5700u, 16GB, 1TB, OLED

 

GPD Win 2

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7 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

What's your purpose? The iphone/ipad sensor IS a multi-point ToF sensor but it's very low resolution.

Data collection/mapping from a handheld device. It's going to be combined with two different types of cameras, intended to be a sensor platform for a variety of applications.

 

I do want high resolution, but I realize I can't expect super-high density in something so small. At this point I even wonder if what I'm looking for exists.
Only suitably small component I've found is the VL53L5CX from ST, but it seems to be more for presence detection than mapping --only 8x8 with a 4m max range. I'm looking for much longer range (50-100m more like) and higher density. Several times larger would still be fine if it afforded better range and density.

 

There are a variety of good small long-range high-density LiDAR modules available like Velabit, CygBot, etc., but they're all still too big. I might have to start looking into 2D LiDAR in case I can't find a good 3D module.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

-Because you actually care if it makes sense.

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11 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

I'm looking for much longer range (50-100m more like) and higher density. 

Yeah I doubt you're going to get that without mechanical scanning at this point, and that takes space...

F@H
Desktop: i9-13900K, ASUS Z790-E, 64GB DDR5-6000 CL36, RTX3080, 2TB MP600 Pro XT, 2TB SX8200Pro, 2x16TB Ironwolf RAID0, Corsair HX1200, Antec Vortex 360 AIO, Thermaltake Versa H25 TG, Samsung 4K curved 49" TV, 23" secondary, Mountain Everest Max

Mobile SFF rig: i9-9900K, Noctua NH-L9i, Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX-AC, 32GB, GTX1070, 2x1TB SX8200Pro RAID0, 2x5TB 2.5" HDD RAID0, Athena 500W Flex (Noctua fan), Custom 4.7l 3D printed case

 

Asus Zenbook UM325UA, Ryzen 7 5700u, 16GB, 1TB, OLED

 

GPD Win 2

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11 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Yeah I doubt you're going to get that without mechanical scanning at this point, and that takes space...

Yeah, that's the rub. There are actually solid-state LiDAR modules that match or even far exceed the range and density I'd want, but they're not small enough.

 

As the project is just a sensor platform for various applications I don't really have strict requirements, I'm just trying to find the best way to get high-accuracy 3D mapping data from a small device. Do you know of any available LiDAR components that would fit my size requirements, even if their range or resolution falls short?

"Do as I say, not as I do."

-Because you actually care if it makes sense.

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Nope, haven't seen things in that size that you haven't mentioned. Never looked for things that small either though...

F@H
Desktop: i9-13900K, ASUS Z790-E, 64GB DDR5-6000 CL36, RTX3080, 2TB MP600 Pro XT, 2TB SX8200Pro, 2x16TB Ironwolf RAID0, Corsair HX1200, Antec Vortex 360 AIO, Thermaltake Versa H25 TG, Samsung 4K curved 49" TV, 23" secondary, Mountain Everest Max

Mobile SFF rig: i9-9900K, Noctua NH-L9i, Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX-AC, 32GB, GTX1070, 2x1TB SX8200Pro RAID0, 2x5TB 2.5" HDD RAID0, Athena 500W Flex (Noctua fan), Custom 4.7l 3D printed case

 

Asus Zenbook UM325UA, Ryzen 7 5700u, 16GB, 1TB, OLED

 

GPD Win 2

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4 minutes ago, Imbadatnames said:

See if you can find a replacement unit from an iPad or iPhone and repurpose if?

I don't think I would be able to use Apple's module --I don't know what protocol it uses to communicate, and it's most certainly not well documented. Given the difficulty I've had finding any information at all on it I don't think I have the skillset to figure out how to integrate it into a different device.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

-Because you actually care if it makes sense.

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8 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

I don't think I would be able to use Apple's module --I don't know what protocol it uses to communicate, and it's most certainly not well documented. Given the difficulty I've had finding any information at all on it I don't think I have the skillset to figure out how to integrate it into a different device.

Haven’t seen a tear down but a sensor is a sensor, think people have managers to get an iPhone camera module working on a raspberry pi

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7 minutes ago, Imbadatnames said:

think people have managers to get an iPhone camera module working on a raspberry pi

Not aware of that.

Sensors can have all manners of power requirements, different interfaces and protocols, with no documentation on such complex things it's pretty much impossible or at least extremely complicated to hope to figure it out.

F@H
Desktop: i9-13900K, ASUS Z790-E, 64GB DDR5-6000 CL36, RTX3080, 2TB MP600 Pro XT, 2TB SX8200Pro, 2x16TB Ironwolf RAID0, Corsair HX1200, Antec Vortex 360 AIO, Thermaltake Versa H25 TG, Samsung 4K curved 49" TV, 23" secondary, Mountain Everest Max

Mobile SFF rig: i9-9900K, Noctua NH-L9i, Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX-AC, 32GB, GTX1070, 2x1TB SX8200Pro RAID0, 2x5TB 2.5" HDD RAID0, Athena 500W Flex (Noctua fan), Custom 4.7l 3D printed case

 

Asus Zenbook UM325UA, Ryzen 7 5700u, 16GB, 1TB, OLED

 

GPD Win 2

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1 hour ago, Kilrah said:

Not aware of that.

Sensors can have all manners of power requirements, different interfaces and protocols, with no documentation on such complex things it's pretty much impossible or at least extremely complicated to hope to figure it out.

The manufacturer of the LiDAR apple uses is Velodyne, maybe see if you can ask them if they can tell you anything 

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23 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

The manufacturer of the LiDAR apple uses is Velodyne, maybe see if you can ask them if they can tell you anything 

I was under the impression Apple uses third party sensors and lasers but makes the actual assembly themselves. I've heard a few companies named as suppliers, mainly Sony and Lumentum, but I've never heard Velodyne. I don't think anything in their product stack is relevant for such a small module. Would be nice though, I work with Velodyne hardware, it's pretty friendly.

 

Most of the sensors I'm planning to use for this project are I2C or something similar, a very standardized, widely supported, well documented, and easy to use protocol. I'm sure it's possible to get Apple's LiDAR module working, but all signs point to it being proprietary and very poorly documented, which means it's not really an option.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

-Because you actually care if it makes sense.

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52 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

I was under the impression Apple uses third party sensors and lasers but makes the actual assembly themselves. I've heard a few companies named as suppliers, mainly Sony and Lumentum, but I've never heard Velodyne. I don't think anything in their product stack is relevant for such a small module. Would be nice though, I work with Velodyne hardware, it's pretty friendly.

 

Most of the sensors I'm planning to use for this project are I2C or something similar, a very standardized, widely supported, well documented, and easy to use protocol. I'm sure it's possible to get Apple's LiDAR module working, but all signs point to it being proprietary and very poorly documented, which means it's not really an option.

Sony make the camera modules for most upper end phones I believe 

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