Why is Computer Media all About Intel + Nvidia?

[RejZoR]

5 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

The problem is knowing what the individual parts actual cost, the assembly cost, then the price to purchase it. HUNDREDS of percent in profit. 

 

But hey, I like apple, it brings great competition to the table and has for many decades. One of my first PCs was an apple. 

 

Either way, what you purchased this year, went out dated already. That's how fast the hardware tech moves. 

Yeah, these calculations are done by same individuals who value worth or capability of a phone solely by looking at it spec sheet and they trip on big numbers, like fuck ton of RAM, billion megapixels, 4K 6,5" displays and I especially love how everyone trips on UFS versions, like they mean anything (it's just storage interface speed, not an actual guaranteed speed of NAND). People also assume developing that Bionic chip which puts entire industry on its feet on every release costs nothing and it's just free money for Apple. Apple calculates in all that. Same with CeramicShield. People just say "yeah yeah it's renamed Gorilla Glass Victus". Yeah, it's not. Apple does own R&D with Corning and they have their own glass composition. Things like this cost a lot of money and people just ignore this entirely. Sure, Apple as a brand calculates in a lot of margin just because of that, but that's pretending like Intel doesn't do the same or NVIDIA. Or BMW or HP. They all value themselves "more" than someone else with same or very similar specs of a lesser brand. Not to mention stuff like software support where Apple is just unmatched king. What other phone has 5 years of major OS updates and extra 2-3 years of only security updates totalling up to 8 years of active software support? And we're talking updates that are always and unconditionally released this moment for everyone in the world. No update regional seeding nonsense. Some may say it's stupid or unnecessary, but I can't tell you how I absolutely hated the stupid seeding and waiting on ALL Android phones where you're constantly in "I hope I'll get the update soon, users in country X had it for a week already". No such nonsense with iPhones. If I see news about new update, if I check for updates, it'll be there. Has consistently been that way for 3 years I own an iPhone every single version, be it major or minor update. Updating and support is so sublime this is first time in some 13 years that I don't really consider buying new phone because it's still actively supported to a point I don't feel left out. And the phone works as fast as it did the day I bought it without a single factory reset in these 3 years. To me, that's more important than just specs on paper.

 

When I consider everything I just said, the 850€ I paid for iPhone XR back when it was new, isn't really that much because I know things that make iPhones better, like superior chipset and long software support had to cost someone something and because it in return offers better experience for longer, I don't consider it as overpriced.

 

Anyways, someone will most likely bitch at this point that we're oing off topic so...

[pythonmegapixel]

15 hours ago, RejZoR said:

have absolutely no clue about actual use.

I frequently plug Android devices into my computer to copy files on and off them. (Files of several types, not just photos, and in both directions). That is not available with Apple.

Meanwhile I have friends who love AirPods. There is nothing on the Android platform that is as seamless to use as the AirPods are for Apple devices, and though it doesn't personally appeal to me, I accept that.

Everyone needs to accept that both platforms have pros and cons, even in actual use (not just specs on paper), and that everyone should make an individual decision about what is the correct choice for them.

I have come to realise that these Apple vs. Android debates achieve precisely nothing - everybody goes away feeling exactly the same as they did at the start, except slightly more annoyed with the "other side". The smartphone market is huge - more than enough to support two competing platforms - so really there need be no winner, just everyone choose which one you, personally, prefer, and let everyone else do the same.

 

Also, certain members of this forum (and you are one of them) seem to have a particular talent for twisting completely irrelevant threads into Brand vs Brand debates the instant a particular company (in your case, Apple) is mentioned in passing. I think a lot of us would appreciate it if such people would just stop it. The fact that someone talks about something that they don't like about your favourite brand need not be treated as a personal threat, and you do not need to defend the corporation.

[RejZoR]

@pythonmegapixel

It's not because I'd be particular fan of Apple, it's the fact how much bullshit people say about Apple. Note that I used to say I'd never ever buy ANYTHING Apple just few years ago until I got so fed up by Google's data hoarding and absoilutely garbage software support on literally every single Android phone thta I owned (HTC, Huawei, Xiaomi and even Samsung of the olden day). To now owning an iPhone XR, Apple Watch 5 and AirPods 2, because I was so happy with phone I wanted to see if shit people say about the rest is true (it isn't either). Just because I've seen how much shit people say about Apple that's not just false, they are striaght up lies. It's not me being fan of Apple, it's me being allergic to bullshit. You'll see me defend Samsung just the same when people whine about "muh Exynos" when it comes to Exynos 2100 that's actually even better than Snapdragon 888 in some cases like battery life. Or you'll always see me saying praises about Samsung's long term software support which is the best in Android segment and second best right after Apple overall when people still stuck wit their mindset in TouchWiz era of Samsung. And you see me defending the very title of this topic explaining that not everyone uses Intel and giving examples of contrary where AMD is used heavily, especially for CPU's.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Yeah, these calculations are done by same individuals who value worth or capability of a phone solely by looking at it spec sheet and they trip on big numbers, like fuck ton of RAM, billion megapixels, 4K 6,5" displays and I especially love how everyone trips on UFS versions, like they mean anything (it's just storage interface speed, not an actual guaranteed speed of NAND). People also assume developing that Bionic chip which puts entire industry on its feet on every release costs nothing and it's just free money for Apple. Apple calculates in all that. Same with CeramicShield. People just say "yeah yeah it's renamed Gorilla Glass Victus". Yeah, it's not. Apple does own R&D with Corning and they have their own glass composition. Things like this cost a lot of money and people just ignore this entirely. Sure, Apple as a brand calculates in a lot of margin just because of that, but that's pretending like Intel doesn't do the same or NVIDIA. Or BMW or HP. They all value themselves "more" than someone else with same or very similar specs of a lesser brand. Not to mention stuff like software support where Apple is just unmatched king. What other phone has 5 years of major OS updates and extra 2-3 years of only security updates totalling up to 8 years of active software support? And we're talking updates that are always and unconditionally released this moment for everyone in the world. No update regional seeding nonsense. Some may say it's stupid or unnecessary, but I can't tell you how I absolutely hated the stupid seeding and waiting on ALL Android phones where you're constantly in "I hope I'll get the update soon, users in country X had it for a week already". No such nonsense with iPhones. If I see news about new update, if I check for updates, it'll be there. Has consistently been that way for 3 years I own an iPhone every single version, be it major or minor update. Updating and support is so sublime this is first time in some 13 years that I don't really consider buying new phone because it's still actively supported to a point I don't feel left out. And the phone works as fast as it did the day I bought it without a single factory reset in these 3 years. To me, that's more important than just specs on paper.

 

When I consider everything I just said, the 850€ I paid for iPhone XR back when it was new, isn't really that much because I know things that make iPhones better, like superior chipset and long software support had to cost someone something and because it in return offers better experience for longer, I don't consider it as overpriced.

 

Anyways, someone will most likely bitch at this point that we're oing off topic so...

That's quite the mouthful!!

8 years of software updates on 8 year old phones?? No thanks... There's nothing appealing about keeping (any phone) for 8 years. But if you do, then 850$ may not be so bad.

 

Apple enthusiasts don't wait that long though..... they will pay anything every year. And that's how phones (all brands, PCs too) are marketed. 

 

 

[RejZoR]

20 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

That's quite the mouthful!!

8 years of software updates on 8 year old phones?? No thanks... There's nothing appealing about keeping (any phone) for 8 years. But if you do, then 850$ may not be so bad.

 

Apple enthusiasts don't wait that long though..... they will pay anything every year. And that's how phones (all brands, PCs too) are marketed. 

 

 

Enthusiasts are a very small but very loud minority and people like to overrepresent them. The bulk of actual users is everyone with iPhone XR, all the SE variants and vanilla models of iPhone that they keep for many years. Using an iPhone until it literally falls appart is not an uncommon thing and usually that's beyond 5 years.

[Mark Kaine]

12 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Either way, what you purchased this year, went out dated already. That's how fast the hardware tech moves. 

thats a view point thing though,  or rather marketing... to me moores law is long dead (despite some people saying its still on track) hence tech is actually moving at glaciers pace for me, think about gpus: 10xx, then 20xx, and now 30xx, sure performance improved, but its really rather disappointing overall,  especially 2000 series was just a stop gap kinda thing, milking the unaware (not a bad product but overpriced and didn't bring much new to the table)

 

cpus similar,  slow advances, intel having been stuck on 14nm forever...

 

We actually should be sub 2nm by now (from what i recall has been estimated many years ago) or at least i wish we were! But its approximately the end of the story, so manufacturers with intel at the forefront are dragging it out as long somehow possible.

Im not saying there were no improvements,  im just wondering how much of that is coming from manufacturers deliberately "holding back" and its all just rather boring and unexciting, you know?

 

 

heck, i had my Athlon x64 dual core pc until 2018 and probably still would would use it , it felt still fast and i was happy with mostly older games, but the cheapo proprietary Asus mobo did give up the ghost eventually lol... 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

thats a view point thing though,  or rather marketing... to me moores law is long dead (despite some people saying its still on track) hence tech is actually moving at glaciers pace for me, think about gpus: 10xx, then 20xx, and now 30xx, sure performance improved, but its really rather disappointing overall,  especially 2000 series was just a stop gap kinda thing, milking the unaware (not a bad product but overpriced and didn't bring much new to the table)

 

cpus similar,  slow advances, intel having been stuck on 14nm forever...

 

We actually should be sub 2nm by now (from what i recall has been estimated many years ago) or at least i wish we were! But its approximately the end of the story, so manufacturers with intel at the forefront are dragging it out as long somehow possible.

Im not saying there were no improvements,  im just wondering how much of that is coming from manufacturers deliberately "holding back" and its all just rather boring and unexciting, you know?

 

 

heck, i had my Athlon x64 dual core pc until 2018 and probably still would would use it , it felt still fast and i was happy with mostly older games, but the cheapo proprietary Asus mobo did give up the ghost eventually lol... 

 

..... Moores law....

 

Was a man who mentioned something in a conversation decades ago that people push as a factual statement rather than a guestimate... which that's all the statement was.

Transistor count doubles nearly every 2 years. He never said anything about the node size, so I'm not sure how that got pushed into this convo.

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

Enthusiasts are a very small but very loud minority and people like to overrepresent them. The bulk of actual users is everyone with iPhone XR, all the SE variants and vanilla models of iPhone that they keep for many years. Using an iPhone until it literally falls appart is not an uncommon thing and usually that's beyond 5 years.

I'm not entirely sure. I suppose some reference would be on call for these types of statistics, which you nor I have spent time on. It's all a toss up otherwise.

[Alder Lake]

On 1/9/2022 at 5:21 PM, steakboy said:

Question: Why are "all" the Youtube Tech channels always building PC's with Intel and Nvidia?

A majority of the time while I watch LTT, Greg Salazar, Jays2Cents, GN, or any other smaller channel/TikTok/Snapchat; Unless they are explicitly talking about an AMD product or an AMD build, they almost always use an Intel CPU and a Nvidia graphics card. Example, LTT's most recent video about splitting a graphics card; its an Nvidia 3080TI. "The PC That Opens Like THIS" is a 2080 (this one is an anomaly since its a last gen. But could they not have gotten an AMD graphics card more easily?) "Building an Upside Down Gaming PC", they use a 3080. And all three ROG Rig Reboots use Nvidia 3080'd.

 

I've built an AMD gaming rig, and it was at a great price (given the circumstances), and I had little trouble finding parts. The CPU, Ram, and Graphics card were all in stock right when I went to look at it. People often boast about: performance to $, and AMD reigns champion in there. The 5950X is better than the i9 12th. the 6800XT clocks better and performs better on more games than the RTX. But then why do these content creators, 9 times out of 10, use Intel and Nvidia hardware?
 

Am i being lied to about AMD's superiority?
Do these content creators get paid more when using Intel and Nvidia equipment?
Do their sponsors not receive AMD hardware?
Is AMD just a dumb company and not give marketing material/hardware to people? 
Am I watching the wrong channels, and everyone i watch just have deals with Intel and Nvidia to showcase their hardware more?

Was my experience purchasing AMD CPU's and GPU's an anomally, and theyre actually even harder to get than Intel/Nvidia (so my thought of scarcity is backwards?)

I know its an exaggeration to say all content creators. But if I click on any random PC building/review video on Youtube by a big content creator, 99.9% of the time its Intel+Nvidia. 

NVIDIA is just another level above AMD in terms of GPUs, which is why you don't see things like the 6900XT very much, along with that Intel has also typically been considered superior except for 2 or 3 times in history, somewhat famously in 2005 when AMD beat them to 64 bit processing if I remember correctly, and just recently when they slouched in their chair for 2 years and AMD caught up and took the lead for about a year or so, but now Intel has taken back the crown, which may change momentarily with Zen 3D, but that should be met up with the HEDT 12900KS which will give the crown back to Intel for "best gaming CPU," after that Zen 4 will face up against Raptor Lake, which is a somewhat difficult call, but I think Zen 4 might end up ahead in tasks like video editing, and Intel will end up ahead in gaming. After that I'm not sure what AMD is doing because they keep it quiet, but Intel will release 14th gen most likely around Q2-3 2023, which will use the Intel 5 node (about the same as TSMC 5nm), and should give them another fairly serious bump in performance, which will compete with AMD's Zen 5^? and is another tough call, but I personally think Intel might come a bit closer in video editing etc and stretch the lead in gaming, which should continue until Intel 18A, which I expect to take the lead back for Intel

 

TL;DR: Intel/NVIDIA are currently ahead of AMD, that's why you're only seeing those builds, a tuned (overclocked) 5950x nudges a lead over the STOCK 12900K, and once you overclock the 12900K, there's no competition.