Intel 12th Gen or Ryzen Zen 3/Zen 3 Refresh

[Derigueur]

So I've been an Intel user and only decided to try AMD based on it being recognised as the better CPU compared to Intel's 10th and 11th Gen. I have seen some instances of sources on these forums and other places mentioning there were USB disconnection issues (I know there seems to have been a patch released by AMD subsequent to this) and audio issues such as crackling and it has me a bit weary about potential instability issues. In addition, I've seen that people say AM4 has now reached it's end with Zen 3 refresh in perhaps December or January coupled with the fact that Intel has now released their 12th Gen.

 

A question I have is what are your opinions on where I should go with my new build. Is it a bad idea to make new build with AMD's Ryzen 5900x due to what is about to take place with AMD and I should wait or even should I go with Intel's 12th Gen?

 

My usage would be for Music production, video editing and photo editing.

[RONOTHAN##]

If you're gonna buy now, this is a really weird time to buy. I will say all of those instability issues with Zen 3 are gone, I've been rocking a 5900X for ~7 months and the only instability I had was with fast startup turned on in the BIOS and Windows, but that was fixed with a BIOS update. All the USB issues and audio issues haven't affected me, and while I'm a sample size of one, most people I've seen on the forums haven't reported any issues like that in a while. 

 

That said, if you're fine with waiting, Alder Lake is looking like a very good option. Currently the 12900k beats the 5900x in a lot of programs for the same price (minus the more expensive motherboards), and if you wait 2-3 months, most of the bleeding edge issues will probably be figured out. Plus, by that time, AMD will release their Zen3 Refresh so you know how the new CPUs will perform. They're expected to catch back up to Intel in single core, while beating them in power consumption. There are a lot of things that are expected to happen in the next 2-3 months, so if you can wait, it's what I would do, but if you can't, don't be afraid of going AMD since Intel is likely to have more instability issues now (bleeding edge things, developers are still getting used to x86 big.LITTLE). 

[Shimejii]

Id wait for the discount if you benefit from what the 5900x gives over 12th gen, If you are just gaming and such, id go with 12th gen, either 12600k or 12700k.

[SorryBella]

First: You can easily self report your post to request your post to be moved, its allowed.

 

Secondly:

6 minutes ago, Derigueur said:

A question I have is what are your opinions on where I should go with my new build. Is it a bad idea to make new build with AMD's Ryzen 5900x due to what is about to take place with AMD and I should wait or even should I go with Intel's 12th Gen?

Honestly speaking, bad time to go for a system. We wont know how 6000 series perform, the DDR5 is still very scarce, and the B6xx series and the rest of the i5 lineup is still up in the clouds for Intel.

[AdamTheNiceMemeMan]

Basically Intel's gen12 is still on the experimental phase, so is Windows 11

[Derigueur]

3 minutes ago, SorryClaire said:

First: You can easily self report your post to request your post to be moved, its allowed.

 

Secondly:

Honestly speaking, bad time to go for a system. We wont know how 6000 series perform, the DDR5 is still very scarce, and the B6xx series and the rest of the i5 lineup is still up in the clouds for Intel.

Ah I'm new here so I didn't know how to get my thread moved, lol thanks.

 

Yeah these are all good points that has me in two minds, I've only bought a GPU and some DDR4 ram so far and as these can be used with either platform that's my saving grace.  With that said, do you think I should cancel/return the DDR4 RAM based on if I was to potentially wait the DDR5 might become more accessible?

Also I'd be interested in either i7 or i9 which you didn't mention. These would obviously need time to mature as well right?

[Derigueur]

10 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

Id wait for the discount if you benefit from what the 5900x gives over 12th gen, If you are just gaming and such, id go with 12th gen, either 12600k or 12700k.

Ok cool, how much of a discount do you roughly envision for the 5900x?

[Derigueur]

15 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

If you're gonna buy now, this is a really weird time to buy. I will say all of those instability issues with Zen 3 are gone, I've been rocking a 5900X for ~7 months and the only instability I had was with fast startup turned on in the BIOS and Windows, but that was fixed with a BIOS update. All the USB issues and audio issues haven't affected me, and while I'm a sample size of one, most people I've seen on the forums haven't reported any issues like that in a while. 

 

That said, if you're fine with waiting, Alder Lake is looking like a very good option. Currently the 12900k beats the 5900x in a lot of programs for the same price (minus the more expensive motherboards), and if you wait 2-3 months, most of the bleeding edge issues will probably be figured out. Plus, by that time, AMD will release their Zen3 Refresh so you know how the new CPUs will perform. They're expected to catch back up to Intel in single core, while beating them in power consumption. There are a lot of things that are expected to happen in the next 2-3 months, so if you can wait, it's what I would do, but if you can't, don't be afraid of going AMD since Intel is likely to have more instability issues now (bleeding edge things, developers are still getting used to x86 big.LITTLE). 

Ok thanks for the reassurance and you make some very valid points. I've been getting by with my Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770K and 16GB of RAM this long, I should hope that I can hopefully wait, it's just very tempting to update now that I've been researching all of the new (to me lol) innovations.

[Cyracus]

13 minutes ago, Derigueur said:

do you think I should cancel/return the DDR4 RAM based on if I was to potentially wait the DDR5 might become more accessible?

That's gonna take 8 months to a year(ish). Stick with ddr4 for the time being. Would also recommend Amd because stability.
I expect 3d V-cache will allow Amd to leapfrog Intel right back, maybe not in single core, but for sure multi core, so waiting for that update certainly has its merits

[Derigueur]

21 minutes ago, Cyracus said:

That's gonna take 8 months to a year(ish). Stick with ddr4 for the time being. Would also recommend Amd because stability.
I expect 3d V-cache will allow Amd to leapfrog Intel right back, maybe not in single core, but for sure multi core, so waiting for that update certainly has its merits

So you feel that by the time AMD releases their refresh that Intel is potentially not gong to have sorted out their teething issues?

Also I'm not a gamer so would multi-core be beneficial for my use case, I was under the impression single core was more what was needed for what I do?

Do you also think new motherboards will be released for the new Ryzen or I should pick from what is already out now?

[Cyracus]

29 minutes ago, Derigueur said:

So you feel that by the time AMD releases their refresh that Intel is potentially not gong to have sorted out their teething issues?

I expect single core performance will be not quite at parity with Intel, but more efficiently, and we'll have to see if Intel's big/little matures well like Ryzen has, or if it turns out to be a bulldozer.

36 minutes ago, Derigueur said:

Do you also think new motherboards will be released for the new Ryzen or I should pick from what is already out now?

probably

[Tr0gdor]

I hope AMD shrugs off it's "unstable" reputation some day. For every AMD user with random issues there's an Intel user with the same.. Unless you're a low-level programmer you'll never notice the difference between an Intel and AMD system in usage. No need to be afraid. 

[Tr0gdor]

On 11/10/2021 at 4:26 AM, Cyracus said:

I expect single core performance will be not quite at parity with Intel, but more efficiently, and we'll have to see if Intel's big/little matures well like Ryzen has, or if it turns out to be a bulldozer.

probably

Zen3d will work with existing boards, 100%. Upgradeability and saving money has always been AMD's strong point and there's no way they'll make you buy a new motherboard for this. 

 

AMD VS Intel is like Android VS iPhone when it comes to arbitrarily spending money on unnecessary "upgrades". 

[Derigueur]

5 hours ago, Tr0gdor said:

I hope AMD shrugs off it's "unstable" reputation some day. For every AMD user with random issues there's an Intel user with the same.. Unless you're a low-level programmer you'll never notice the difference between an Intel and AMD system in usage. No need to be afraid. 

What is it that a low level programmer would experience?

[brob]

The best performing cpu is always the one rumored for near term release. At least in the minds of its proponents.

 

AM4 is a dead socket. Ryzen 6000 will be the last cpu that uses it. Zen4 will not use AM4.

 

Alder Lake is absolutely spanking Ryzen in content creation. Take a look at the analysis available from Puget Systems. I expect that gap will only grow as software author's start to take advantage of the asymetrical architecture. An architecture I would point out that has been well explored for years with smart phones.

 

If one is going to wait, wait for zen4. It should offer a significant performance increase as it moves to a 5nm process. 

 

[Cyracus]

On 11/11/2021 at 1:01 AM, Tr0gdor said:

Zen3d will work with existing boards, 100%

Sorry, didn't mean to imply otherwise, meant that new compatible boards will probably be released around the cpu launch

[Tr0gdor]

On 11/12/2021 at 10:05 PM, Cyracus said:

Sorry, didn't mean to imply otherwise, meant that new compatible boards will probably be released around the cpu launch

I honestly doubt it. I bet existing boards will get a BIOS update, and boards that are being manufactured will come with the latest BIOS, but with AM4 being end of life I doubt there will be a launch of a significant motherboard. Maybe some obscure mini-ITX thingy or whatever, but I think things will be pretty dry for AM4. All the good boards are already out there.

 

It's possible Zen3d will only be compatible with B550 and higher boards, not sure about that, btw. I must admit I am not that knowledgeable about motherboard chipsets nowadays. It makes sense that only the mid-high end gets 3d cache. My bet would be a 3d cache version of the 5600X, 5800X and 5950X. Maybe the 5900X too. For models below the 5600X it doesn't make any sense, especially since they specifically advertise the extra performance as gaming performance.

 

I hope there will be an APU with 3d cache btw, if they release a 5700G with 3d cache I will totally buy it! But maybe that's too complicated or whatever. 

[Derigueur]

14 hours ago, Tr0gdor said:

I honestly doubt it. I bet existing boards will get a BIOS update, and boards that are being manufactured will come with the latest BIOS, but with AM4 being end of life I doubt there will be a launch of a significant motherboard. Maybe some obscure mini-ITX thingy or whatever, but I think things will be pretty dry for AM4. All the good boards are already out there.

 

It's possible Zen3d will only be compatible with B550 and higher boards, not sure about that, btw. I must admit I am not that knowledgeable about motherboard chipsets nowadays. It makes sense that only the mid-high end gets 3d cache. My bet would be a 3d cache version of the 5600X, 5800X and 5950X. Maybe the 5900X too. For models below the 5600X it doesn't make any sense, especially since they specifically advertise the extra performance as gaming performance.

 

I hope there will be an APU with 3d cache btw, if they release a 5700G with 3d cache I will totally buy it! But maybe that's too complicated or whatever. 

What makes you think that the 5900x potentially won't have a 3d cache update?