Get Z690 Now or Wait For AMD Zen 4/X670

[Coastqr]

Hi, so I am really excited for the release of the new Intel and AMD motherboards that support DDR5.

 

I am wondering if I should wait for AMD Zen 4 and the X670 motherboards, or get a Z690 motherboard now.

 

My current PC has an i7 10700k, 32gb of RAM 3200mhz, an Asus Strix 3070 OC (which I really want to pair with a processor that supports PCIE 4.0), an MSI Z490 Gaming Edge, and some really slow M.2 Drives (Western Digital Black 500gb, 3500 mbps, Sandisk 3d Ultra 1tb, 2500mbps). 

 

Also, which motherboard should I get? I will either get a 12900k or a 12700k.

 

These are a few I like:

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1667690-REG/gigabyte_z690_aorus_master_lga1700.html

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1670822-REG/asus_90mb18g0_m0aay0_republic_of_gamers_maximus.html

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1670823-REG/asus_90mb18i0_m0aay0_republic_of_gamers_maximus.html

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1666736-REG/asus_rog_maximus_z690_hero.html

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1668937-REG/msi_mpg_z690_carbon_wifi.html.

 

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-z690-aorus-xtreme/p/N82E16813145352

 

An Asus motherboard would go a bit better with the Strix 3070, because thankfully the Asus branding is very subtle.

 

Also, would you recommend the new Corsair Dominator or G skill Trident Z5?

[Arika]

Is your current pc unable to do something that the upgrade would, or you just want fancy new toys?

 

Unless you have an actual need to upgrade, it would just be a waste of money to upgrade for the sake of upgrading

[I._.T]

You may as well wait and see what your options are

[MultiGamerClub]

2 hours ago, Coastqr said:

10700k

You dont need an upgrade unless your gonna render files than "might" need more ram.. And even then its questionable to upgrade with this new setup..

 

Do it if you want to be on a new generation but i dont see why you would want to switch up outside getting on the *cough* expensive new stuff.

[Coastqr]

2 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Is your current pc unable to do something that the upgrade would, or you just want fancy new toys?

 

Unless you have an actual need to upgrade, it would just be a waste of money to upgrade for the sake of upgrading

yes pretty much fancy new toys , although i consider building pc's a hobby

 

[Coastqr]

16 minutes ago, MultiGamerClub said:

You dont need an upgrade unless your gonna render files than "might" need more ram.. And even then its questionable to upgrade with this new setup..

 

Do it if you want to be on a new generation but i dont see why you would want to switch up outside getting on the *cough* expensive new stuff.

I was thinking pretty much the same thing, 10700k should be future proof for another 2-3 years, I am also considering getting a Secretlab Titan Evo 2022 

[Smyan Narang]

I feel like ur setup is just fine rn but if u r gonna upgrade wait fr zen4/x670

[MultiGamerClub]

13 hours ago, Coastqr said:

2-3 years

Even with how fast our generations seems to go on.. Some 5 years is good honestly. Your setup is similar to my sister. 5800X/3070ti.

 

With that CPU and that GPU your pretty much set.. Unless you want better.. or really need a higher graphical setting.

[YoungBlade]

With your current build, I would wait. DDR5 prices should come down noticeably in the next year and get faster with lower latency to boot.

 

Zen 4 vs Raptor Lake is when the real battle will happen, as AMD is moving to 5nm and it will probably have their V-Cache. Raptor Lake plus additional Windows 11 updates should refine a lot of the issues that 12th gen has.

 

We could be looking at another 20%+ uplift compared to Alder Lake, which will result in a truly impressive upgrade for you worthy of the effort.

[Coastqr]

3 hours ago, YoungBlade said:

With your current build, I would wait. DDR5 prices should come down noticeably in the next year and get faster with lower latency to boot.

 

Zen 4 vs Raptor Lake is when the real battle will happen, as AMD is moving to 5nm and it will probably have their V-Cache. Raptor Lake plus additional Windows 11 updates should refine a lot of the issues that 12th gen has.

 

We could be looking at another 20%+ uplift compared to Alder Lake, which will result in a truly impressive upgrade for you worthy of the effort.

yeah, ive always wondered why ddr5 latency is so high, c36 smh.

 

I hear somewhere that Zen 4 will only have one gen 5 PCIE lane, idk if that is true though.

 

I dont really like what Intel is doing with the effieciency cores, why dont they just run them cores at a lower frequency when not in heavy use? That's what my 10700k does.

[YoungBlade]

41 minutes ago, Coastqr said:

yeah, ive always wondered why ddr5 latency is so high, c36 smh.

 

I hear somewhere that Zen 4 will only have one gen 5 PCIE lane, idk if that is true though.

 

I dont really like what Intel is doing with the effieciency cores, why dont they just run them cores at a lower frequency when not in heavy use? That's what my 10700k does.

Latency on DDR5, just like all DDR RAM, is relative. DDR5-7200 CL36 is equal in latency to DDR4-3600 CL18. Unfortunately, most DDR5 for now has worse latency than the best DDR4, but that will change as the manufacturing process matures.

 

I don't know whether Zen 4 will have PCIe Gen 5, but it doesn't matter much. The 3090 is the only GPU that can benefit from Gen 4, and even then it's not much. No NVMe drives max out Gen 4 yet. It will take a long time to saturate Gen 4, and so far there are no consumer Gen 5 products, so even if X670 is Gen 4, that shouldn't matter.

 

As for the E cores, the answer is simple: smaller die size. Intel can fit nearly 4 E cores in the space of 1 P core, so it's cheaper to make E cores. I expect we'll see 8 P cores as the max for the next few generations even if we go up to 16, 24, or 32 E cores, because an 8+32 design is equivalent to 16+0 in terms of die space.

[DarkSmith2]

5 hours ago, YoungBlade said:

With your current build, I would wait. DDR5 prices should come down noticeably in the next year and get faster with lower latency to boot.

 

Zen 4 vs Raptor Lake is when the real battle will happen, as AMD is moving to 5nm and it will probably have their V-Cache. Raptor Lake plus additional Windows 11 updates should refine a lot of the issues that 12th gen has.

 

We could be looking at another 20%+ uplift compared to Alder Lake, which will result in a truly impressive upgrade for you worthy of the effort.

Meteor Lake is the competitor for Zen4, not Raptor Lake. We already know Zen4 will win against Raptor Lake.

[YoungBlade]

15 minutes ago, DarkSmith2 said:

Meteor Lake is the competitor for Zen4, not Raptor Lake. We already know Zen4 will win against Raptor Lake.

Raptor Lake and Zen 4 are both coming out around the same time next year. Meteor Lake isn't due until 2023. Comparing Meteor Lake to Zen 4 is like comparing Alder Lake to Zen 3. It's not invalid, but one is a year older than the other.

[DarkSmith2]

7 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

Raptor Lake and Zen 4 are both coming out around the same time next year. Meteor Lake isn't due until 2023. Comparing Meteor Lake to Zen 4 is like comparing Alder Lake to Zen 3. It's not invalid, but one is a year older than the other.

listen,

end of 2022 raptorlake, 6month later zen4, another 6month later Meteor Lake.

But that doesnt even matter, you would compare Alder Lakes Refresh (ToK) vs Zen4 (amd's Tick). Doesnt make the slightest sense.

From the Technology standpoint release dates doesnt make more sense than comparing products with its advanced process nodes and architectures.
Raptor Lake is in no way shape or form a competitor to Zen4.

[Tan3l6]

Yeah, Intel and AMD are competing with their processors. 

One can always wait for the better option, as it's usually just a few months away...

But then what's the point?

[DarkSmith2]

2 minutes ago, Tan3l6 said:

Yeah, Intel and AMD are competing with their processors. 

One can always wait for the better option, as it's usually just a few months away...

But then what's the point?

There is no point, if you have enough performance dont upgrade, if you are lacking performance, upgrade.
No matter if you choose or AMD or Intel, take whats faster / or more economical in your upgrade cycle, match it up with GPU releases for gaming and you are fine.

[YoungBlade]

9 minutes ago, DarkSmith2 said:

listen,

end of 2022 raptorlake, 6month later zen4, another 6month later Meteor Lake.

But that doesnt even matter, you would compare Alder Lakes Refresh (ToK) vs Zen4 (amd's Tick). Doesnt make the slightest sense.

From the Technology standpoint release dates doesnt make more sense than comparing products with its advanced process nodes and architectures.
Raptor Lake is in no way shape or form a competitor to Zen4.

Where are you hearing that Zen 4 got delayed? Last I saw, both are due out Q4 2022.

 

And release date matters way more than process node or architecture. Products can only compete against what exists while it is relevant. What did it matter that Intel 10nm (Intel 7) is just as dense as TSMC 7nm back in 2019? AMD had it and Intel didn't, so comparing Zen 2 to 9000 and 10000 series were the only options, in spite of the 14nm+++++ being a mature node while Zen 2 was on something new.

[DarkSmith2]

1 minute ago, YoungBlade said:

Where are you hearing that Zen 4 got delayed? Last I saw, both are due out Q4 2022.

 

And release date matters way more than process node or architecture. Products can only compete against what exists while it is relevant. What did it matter that Intel 10nm (Intel 7) is just as dense as TSMC 7nm back in 2019? AMD had it and Intel didn't, so comparing Zen 2 to 9000 and 10000 series were the only options, in spite of the 14nm+++++ being a mature node while Zen 2 was on something new.

By this logic, you are chasing tails like a dog. Raptor Lake isnt competing against Zen4, just like 10series arent competing with Zen2. Its the same thing just the other way around. Zen3 just had multiple competitors, as they did less releases in that time frame. But ever since, Intel was behind in releasing, would be unfair even with your Logic.

Even arguing about this is kinda dumb, doesnt even matter who is right or wrong, just saying ..

[Mister Woof]

This is wild....unless you're doing some rendering all day like previously mentioned, there's no real rush to upgrade. 10700K still has some serious grunt, even in spite of all the new stuff.
 

If you're just gaming, and using an RTX 3070, no upgrade is going to really manifest in observable performance upgrades unless you play esports games at 1080p/low AND have a super duper high refresh monitor.

 

MMOs might see an uplift, but for the most part, it won't be worth the $600+ you'll be sinking into it.

 

I'm on a 10900KF and have zero plans to upgrade to either Alder Lake or Zen3+. MAYBE 13th gen. But overall, I plan to get at least 3 years out of this, which puts me in 2024+.

 

I wouldn't consider an upgrade until you upgrade your GPU to 3090+ levels of performance.

 

Have you overclocked your 10700K yet? There's some observable gains in doing so.

 

 

~14% here in this test. Definitely worth giving a shot. 5.1ghz isn't unrealistic, either.

 

And keep in mind that's with a 3090, not a 3070. You'll see some better minimums and better FPS in some games, but you're still mostly limited by the 3070.

[YoungBlade]

3 minutes ago, DarkSmith2 said:

By this logic, you are chasing tails like a dog. Raptor Lake isnt competing against Zen4, just like 10series arent competing with Zen2. Its the same thing just the other way around. Zen3 just had multiple competitors, as they did less releases in that time frame. But ever since, Intel was behind in releasing, would be unfair even with your Logic.

Even arguing about this is kinda dumb, doesnt even matter who is right or wrong, just saying ..

There is no tail chasing. It's pretty straight forward: the competitors of a CPU are whatever CPUs come out during its lifetime before the next release. That's usually just one or two generations, but sometimes more.

 

FX 300 series competed against 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000, and 7000 series

Zen 1000 series competed against 7000 and 8000 series

Zen 2000 series competed against 8000 and 9000 series

Zen 3000 series competed against 9000 and 10000 series

Zen 5000 series competed against 10000, 11000, and 12000 series

[DarkSmith2]

1 minute ago, YoungBlade said:

There is no tail chasing. It's pretty straight forward: the competitors of a CPU are whatever CPUs come out during its lifetime before the next release. That's usually just one or two generations, but sometimes more.

 

FX 300 series competed against 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000, and 7000 series

Zen 1000 series competed against 7000 and 8000 series

Zen 2000 series competed against 8000 and 9000 series

Zen 3000 series competed against 9000 and 10000 series

Zen 5000 series competed against 10000, 11000, and 12000 series

ah.. so here we go, you disqualified yourself having a reasonable conversation. I tried multiple times by now to explain to you from a technical standpoint that you might be able to "compare" CPUs that way, but that it doesnt necessarily means that they "compete" with each other just because they where released in a similar timeframe. They might compete in the market, but not from the TECH aspect. Two completly different things.

[Mister Woof]

Upgrades that makes sense:

 

Intel 9400/9600K or older; 6 core no HT chips aren't really enough for most new games to get the most out of modern GPUs. It's worth it here, depending on scenario. 7th gen and older, upgrade totally worth it.

 

Ryzen 2nd gen and older; possibly 3rd gen if you're chasing every bit of performance. That said, usually you can just drop a 5600x/5800x in your existing setup making the choice even easier. If you are on a 300 series board and can't do a 5000 series upgrade, then Intel's 12600k/12700k seem really compelling options as well.

[CKilburn]

Zen 4 is suppose to be wild! I'd wait for it. If nothing else, it may lower the cost of Intel 12th gen

[BTGbullseye]

On 11/8/2021 at 1:03 PM, Mister Woof said:

then Intel's 12600k/12700k seem really compelling options as well.

Not pricewise, since it requires a new motherboard that is WAY more expensive than any other consumer stuff right now. Do they even have DDR4 motherboards yet? DDR5 is MUCH more expensive, so if it's requiring that...

 

Overall, best not to go with 12th gen if you want to have maximum performance per $ spent for the system.

[Mister Woof]

14 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

Not pricewise, since it requires a new motherboard that is WAY more expensive than any other consumer stuff right now. Do they even have DDR4 motherboards yet? DDR5 is MUCH more expensive, so if it's requiring that...

 

Overall, best not to go with 12th gen if you want to have maximum performance per $ spent for the system.

DDR4 motherboards seem to be the sweetspot for Alderlake at present. They also cost less. Seems you can get a Gigabyte Z690 UD for $200 that performs well.

 

High speed, low latency DDR4 performs better at most games than middling DDR5, and cost less.