HDD: difference between 6GB/s and 12 Gb/s

[IdeaStormer]

but isnt it worser then regular HDDs in gaming?

 

If you think 12 G/s vs 6 G/s is worse then time to go back to basic math.

 

also whats a SAS converter to SATA called? i mean product name?

 

Here it is, it is basically a SAS to SATA converter/cable

 

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-18-Inch-Cable-Power-SAS729PW18/dp/B000V72AQ4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396897407&sr=8-1&keywords=sas+to+sata+cable

 

If you plug it into a 6 G/s SATA port then you are basically throwing money out the door as you'll never get the 12 G/s range performance out of it.

[ViruZ_HUN]

If you thing 12 G/s vs 6 G/s is worse then time to go back to basic math.

 

 

Here it is, it is basically a SAS to SATA converter/cable

 

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-18-Inch-Cable-Power-SAS729PW18/dp/B000V72AQ4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396897407&sr=8-1&keywords=sas+to+sata+cable

 

If you plug it into a 6 G/s SATA port then you are basically throwing money out the door as you'll never get the 12 G/s range performance out of it.

Okay but then there is no meaning to get a mobo like "Maximus vi formula" and pluf it into there because its only a 6 g/s port?

 

Why do this drives exist if no mobo support them? if it do get supported what mobos?

[IdeaStormer]

Okay but then there is no meaning to get a mobo like "Maximus vi formula" and pluf it into there because its only a 6 g/s port?

 

Why do this drives exist if no mobo support them? if it do get supported what mobos?

 

Correct, sort of. No point if you are going to plug them into the on board ports, but if you buy a 12G/s card then you're back in business.

 

These drives are mainly (as other have stated) for enterprise storage arrays, there are very few of these 12G/s drives around as they just came out recently. There is still a segment of tech that will stay with HDD's as opposed to SSD's due to heavy writes to their drives, 12G/s offers an improvement on the current 6G/s SAS drives and SATA drives. I have looked into them but quickly hit the cost ceiling for our budget, $/Gb, of course there are factors but that moved it off my list. Cool stuff though.

[alpenwasser]

For those interested: thessdreview.com has some SAS SSD reviews, in one of

them they run eight Hitachi 12 Gb/s enterprise SSDs and an LSI 12Gb/s controller.

Needless to say, it's rather nice.

link (also note the links to the other articles at the top of that one)

There was a discussion about SAS SSDs a few weeks back in a thread, somebody

looked up how expensive those SSDs are, if I recall correctly it was like 4,000

to 5,000 USD, something like that (per piece, obviously), if I'm off maybe

@IdeaStormer can correct me.

In any case: This is enterprise stuff, with enterprise prices. You could, as

mentioned, run it in your home PC, but one of these SSDs would cost more than

most people's PCs just by itself, and that's not taking into account the SAS

controller card you'll need, which certainly won't be cheap either.

[IdeaStormer]

For those interested: thessdreview.com has some SAS SSD reviews, in one of

them they run eight Hitachi 12 Gb/s enterprise SSDs and an LSI 12Gb/s controller.

Needless to say, it's rather nice.

link (also note the links to the other articles at the top of that one)

There was a discussion about SAS SSDs a few weeks back in a thread, somebody

looked up how expensive those SSDs are, if I recall correctly it was like 4,000

to 5,000 USD, something like that (per piece, obviously), if I'm off maybe

@IdeaStormer can correct me.

In any case: This is enterprise stuff, with enterprise prices. You could, as

mentioned, run it in your home PC, but one of these SSDs would cost more than

most people's PCs just by itself, and that's not taking into account the SAS

controller card you'll need, which certainly won't be cheap either.

 

$4K? For which drive? They're more expensive but not that astronomical, here's one company selling them for $559 (1.2TB Hitachi, not verified its actually the 12G/s Drive) but with their Racks. Ref: http://www.pc-pitstop.com/sas_cables_enclosures/2U-24bay-12G-expander-enclosure.asp

 

This is quite interesting though: http://www.asrockrack.com/general/news.pl.asp?id=9

Onboard 12G/s SAS, now we're talking.

[ViruZ_HUN]

Correct, sort of. No point if you are going to plug them into the on board ports, but if you buy a 12G/s card then you're back in business.

 

These drives are mainly (as other have stated) for enterprise storage arrays, there are very few of these 12G/s drives around as they just came out recently. There is still a segment of tech that will stay with HDD's as opposed to SSD's due to heavy writes to their drives, 12G/s offers an improvement on the current 6G/s SAS drives and SATA drives. I have looked into them but quickly hit the cost ceiling for our budget, $/Gb, of course there are factors but that moved it off my list. Cool stuff though.

whats is a 12g/s card?

 

Whats the name of the product:D?

[alpenwasser]

$4K? For which drive? They're more expensive but not that astronomical, here's one company selling them for $559 (1.2TB Hitachi, not verified its actually the 12G/s Drive) but with their Racks. Ref: http://www.pc-pitstop.com/sas_cables_enclosures/2U-24bay-12G-expander-enclosure.asp

The menu says: 'Hitachi 1.2TB 10k 2.5" SAS Hard Drive', so I'm assuming it's an HDD?

I was talking about SSDs. The model in the link is this one, specifically.

Also, the SSD is only available up to 800 GB capacity, so it can't be that one just

from size.

Price info is difficult to find, but I've found one source, whith the following

prices:

• 200GB: $1,285.99
• 400 GB: $2,218.99
• 800 GB: $4,408.99

It's a US/Canada shop, so I'm assuming those prices are either US or CA dollars.

 

This is quite interesting though: http://www.asrockrack.com/general/news.pl.asp?id=9

Onboard 12G/s SAS, now we're talking.

Oh, yes we are indeed.

EDIT:

whats is a 12g/s card?

Whats the name of the product:D?

A controller card with 12 Gb/s SAS ports, such as the LSI SAS 9300-8e host bus

adapter or the Adaptec ASR885 RAID Adapter.

LSI link

[IdeaStormer]

The menu says: 'Hitachi 1.2TB 10k 2.5" SAS Hard Drive', so I'm assuming it's an HDD?

I was talking about SSDs. The model in the link is this one, specifically.

Also, the SSD is only available up to 800 GB capacity, so it can't be that one just

from size.

Price info is difficult to find, but I've found one source, whith the following

prices:

• 200GB: $1,285.99
• 400 GB: $2,218.99
• 800 GB: $4,408.99

It's a US/Canada shop, so I'm assuming those prices are either US or CA dollars.

 

Oh, yes we are indeed.

EDIT:

A controller card with 12 Gb/s SAS ports, such as the LSI SAS 9300-8e host bus

adapter or the Adaptec ASR885 RAID Adapter.

LSI link

 

 

Yea, I'm mainly looking/thinking/considering HDD's the whole SSD thing in storage is fine for cache but full time storage? Its still unproven in my eyes, and especially for the price hit. Those 12G/s SSD's are in the range of just price gouging in my view, I can imagine a real file server just eating those drives alive, I'm talking with excessive file turnover (write, read, delete, write, ... and round and round), sure for most people this is not a problem (nor me at home) but real data, real file server, its a big issue. Not everyone writes a few meg a day, not that I write terabytes but a good group of users on a good day well they will at the drop of a hat and that is where the problem arises (for me).

[xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt]

 

 

xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt, on 08 Apr 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

what?

 

There are 8 Bits to every byte

 

Yes, that is what I wrote.

 

okay but whats the difference?

 

Example BF4.

 

Will 12 Gb/s load maps faster then a 6gb/s?

 

 

what?

1 Byte  = 8 bits

[alpenwasser]

Yea, I'm mainly looking/thinking/considering HDD's the whole SSD thing in storage is fine for cache but full time storage? Its still unproven in my eyes, and especially for the price hit. Those 12G/s SSD's are in the range of just price gouging in my view, I can imagine a real file server just eating those drives alive, I'm talking with excessive file turnover (write, read, delete, write, ... and round and round), sure for most people this is not a problem (nor me at home) but real data, real file server, its a big issue. Not everyone writes a few meg a day, not that I write terabytes but a good group of users on a good day well they will at the drop of a hat and that is where the problem arises (for me).

Oh yeah, prices are totally ridiculous, I imagine actual use cases for these

drives are rather narrow. I'm not really sure what the point is of having an

HDD on a 12Gb/s connection though, they don't even saturate the a 6Gb/s interface

as far as I'm aware (at least the ones I've read about).

Honestly, at this point I'm not too worried anymore about SSD reliability as

much as I used to be. Sure, I would still say that a proper backup is required

(but then again, that also goes for important data on HDDs), but seeing a good

consumer SSD being able to take several hundred TB of writes (source) leaves me

pretty confident that the HGST ones can take a proper beating.

Naturally though, everything can break if you stress it hard enough.

But, small thought experiment: Assuming the 200 GB HGST can take a petabyte of

writes (not unreasonable based on the article above I'd say, although yes, in

the end it is an assumption I admit), and let's say you want to have the drive

in use for five years or three years, that's still:

 

1024 GB/TB*1024 TB / (365 days/year * 5 years) ~= 575 GB / day1024 GB/TB*1024 TB / (365 days/year * 3 years) ~= 958 GB / day

So, almost three and five full drive writes, respectively. And I'd say based on

the article above, that's a pretty conservative estimate. Still, I'm not a storage

industry expert, and in the end this is just bouncing around some hypothetical

numbers and there surely are people who easily break these limits as you mention,

if anyone has some actual concrete data I'd definitely be interested in that.

EDIT:

Side note: If you really belong to the group of people who write terabytes each

day, I'd say it's not unreasonable to assume that said writes are related to your

job, right? In that case, even if the drive breaks after a year of use (so, 3TB

per day written), the time you save writing your data might still make the investment

worth it, since time = money in many situations. Just a thought, everybody will

need to judge this for themselves, obviously.

/EDIT

And as you say, the prices really only justify these drives for very specific use

cases. In most cases it might be more reasonable to just buy a bunch of consumer

grade SSDs (I mean, you can get about eight Terabyte SSDs for the price of one of

the 800 GB HGST ones) and have a highly redundant and properly backed up setup

with those (obviously, only for applications that aren't riduculously write-

intensive, of course)? Or as you say, even just go for HDDs.

EDIT 2:

Found another endurance test for a 128 GB disk this time: 3 PB written until death

of drive. link

Also, small side note: Yes, I'm aware that write endurance is not the only

criterion when it comes to reliability, there are of course other ways in which

a drive can fail too.

EDIT 3: (this is becoming a rather humpty-dumpty post)

Found something on the HGST spec sheet: the 200 GB version is rated for 3.7 TB

of writes. It's not the same as actual hard test data, but still, redoing the calculation

with that gives

 

3.7 * 1024 GB/TB*1024 TB / (365 days/year * 5 years) ~= 2,126 GB / day3.7 * 1024 GB/TB*1024 TB / (365 days/year * 3 years) ~= 3,543 GB / day

I'd be curious to see somebody actually test these, see if the rated endurance is

accurate or conservative. But I doubt somebody is going to buy a $1300 drive just

to drive it into the ground.