Can't get RAM to OVERCLOCK

[THATDUDE_GAMES]

Hi All,

 

I can't seem to figure out why my RAM won't overclock. I can't seem to figure out if the RAM is compatible first of all. Secondly, if it's compatible, I can't seem to figure out how to overclock it. I have dual 16GB Gskill 4000mhz on my Gigabyte Aorus X570 Elite wifi motherboard. I've tried XMP profile 1, changing the voltage to 1.4v, manually changing CL values, manually changing clock speeds, enabling overclock and it doesn't seem to "engage" if that makes sense. When I view SPD info, it registers the XMP profile 1 & JEDEC profile and shows the details for both but, when I check CPU-Z it only registers at 1066mhz with a FSB:RATIO of 3:32.

 

SETUP - 

 

MOTHERBOARD - Gigabyte Aorus Elite wifi X570 rev 1

RAM - G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR4-4000MHz CL18-22-22-42 1.40V
32GB (2x16GB) installed on slots 2&4 I believe model is - F4-4000C18D-32GVK

CPU - Ryzen 9 5900x

GPU - Nvidia 3080 ti

 

[Skiiwee29]

Likely problem is not the RAM per say, but your infinite fabric, or Fclk. 1900mhz is about the highest you can really get it to go without tons of tweaking manually with all kinds of voltages and settings etc... Try enabling XMP, and set your RAM to 3800 and see if you get a boot. Ryzen systems work best with Fclock is 1:1 with RAM so 1900mhz RAM and 1900MHZ Fclock. Uncoupling them can introduce other problems and issues so its generally not advised. 

[Action_Johnson]

im an idiot

[Chris Pratt]

It's actually running at 2133MHz effective clock. What CPU-Z is showing is the actual clock, which is always half. Other than that, it's a little hard to tell what you actually tried in what order from your description.

 

First, you're not guaranteed to be able to run the FCLK 1:1 here, as not all Zen 3 chips can hit 2000MHz, and some BIOS software makes you manually set it async if that's what you want to do.

 

First, reset your BIOS back to factory and only enable XMP. If you can't get it to POST, then manually set the MCLK to 3600MHz and the FCLK to 1800MHz, with XMP still on and everything else at auto. If that POSTs, then you can try bumping up the MCLK and FCLK a little at a time to see where it starts to fail. You may also want to set the DRAM voltage to 1.4V and SOC voltage at 1.1V at this point to give it a bit of help.

 

Once you get the clocks locked in, then you can start dialing in the timings if you want. It's highly unlikely you'll able to actually run at 4000MHz in 1:1 if it didn't just work out of the box, and unless you can overclock the heck out of it, running async is going to hurt you more than the extra clockspeed will help. Just roll it over into better timings.

[THATDUDE_GAMES]

@Skiiwee29Thanks for the response. First note, I'm also not sure now if I need a new battery on my motherboard since when I access the BIOS, sometimes it says CMOS has been reset and other times it doesn't reset. I'm not exactly sure on which steps to take first based on your response but, I tried the following(added screenshots as well in the same order as the steps I took) - 

 

ATTEMPT 1 - I enabled XMP to "profile 1" which is the only option and changed the FCLK Frequency to 3800Mhz and I get the same stats shown in the original CPU-Z screenshot.

 

ATTEMPT 2 - I changed FCLK frequency to 1900Mhz, enabled overclock, put memory overclock speed to 1900Mhz, put Infinity Fabric Frequency and Dividers to 1900Mhz and I get the same stats shown in the original CPU-Z screenshot.

[THATDUDE_GAMES]

@Chris PrattThanks for your response. Here's what I've tried so far. (FYI, as stated in my response to @Skiiwee29just prior to this response, I did reset BIOS settings but, I didn't try to lol. Sometimes when I go into BIOS it resets and other times it doesn't, leading me to believe that I might have to change battery on motherboard. Not sure if that thinking is correct though.)

 

ATTEMPT 1 - XMP enabled to "profile 1" only option available. Same stats in CPU-Z remain as in screenshot in original post. 

 

Since it does post, and since I don't enter bios it goes into Windows, I didn't try changing MCLK & FCLK since you said, "If you CAN'T get it to POST, then manually set the MCLK to 3600MHz and the FCLK to 1800MHz, with XMP still on and everything else at auto. Also, I only see options to change FCLK & UCLK directly but, not MCLK. I only see MCLK when I go to "DDR and Infinity Fabric Frequency/Timings > Infinity Fabric Frequency and Dividers within the clock speed options as shown below. At the bottom left, it states "FCLK auto: FCLK=MCLK" but, I don't see any option to directly select MCLK.

Edited August 11, 2021 by THATDUDE_GAMES

[THATDUDE_GAMES]

UPDATE -

 

I was able to get it to OC by disabling XMP, then changing DRAM voltage to 1.4v and changing memory multiplier. The PC would post and boot up to Windows for each multiplier (32, 34, 37, 40) BUT, when I selected 40, motherboard would make make 2 or 3 click sounds and take a little longer and boot to windows with stock frequency at 1066(2133). Each time I raised multiplier the timings went up with it. Also, the NB frequency would match DRAM frequency on multipliers of 32 & 34 BUT, when 37 is in place, the NB frequency looks like it's half of DRAM frequency and I'm not sure if that's good, bad, or acceptable. Idk if I should just leave it since it accepted 37 multiplier or now mess with decreasing timings since it accepted 37.

 

Any thoughts?

[THATDUDE_GAMES]

I think I might be referring to memory frequency instead of multiplier as memory frequency is at 37 and multiplier says it's at 45.

[-rascal-]

1 hour ago, THATDUDE_GAMES said:

I think I might be referring to memory frequency instead of multiplier as memory frequency is at 37 and multiplier says it's at 45.

 

1600 MHz in CPU-Z = DDR4-3600 = Memory Multiplier of 36.

You need to pay close attention to WHICH multiplier you are looking at.

 

Where are you seeing this "45" ?

[THATDUDE_GAMES]

@-rascal-I've posted some pics below of what I see in Gigabyte's app center application called system viewer and another from gigabyte called easy tune along side CPUZ app. It says memory frequency 37 and multiplier 45.

[-rascal-]

29 minutes ago, THATDUDE_GAMES said:

@-rascal-I've posted some pics below of what I see in Gigabyte's app center application called system viewer and another from gigabyte called easy tune along side CPUZ app. It says memory frequency 37 and multiplier 45.

 

That 45 is the CPU Multiplier.

Your CPU is running at  4499.12 MHz ~= 4500 MHz = 4.5 GHz 

BCLK = 100 MHz, CPU Multiplier = 45

CPU Frequency = BCLK x CPU Multiplier = 100 x 45 = 4500 MHz.

 

Your RAM is running at the right frequency.

Memory Multiplier 37.33 = DDR4-3733

CPU-Z is showing 1866 MHz.

1866 MHz x 2 = 3732 MHz.

 

However, it doesn't look like the Infinity Fabric (IF) ...I think that is showing up as NB Frequency in CPU-Z is running at 1:1

It is running at 1:2 .... IF SO, that will negatively impact CPU performance.

If that is the case, I would not run it at DDR4-3733 then.

Better to drop it down to DDR4-3600 or whatever your CPU can handle to maintain 1:1 ratio between Infinity Fabric (IF) and DRAM.

[THATDUDE_GAMES]

@-rascal-okay, I see what you're saying in regards to the CPU multiplier.

 

So, I was able to change the RAM multiplier to 32, 34, 37, w/o any problems "seemingly" BUT, it did not accept a multiplier of 40. I also noticed, when I changed to 37, the NB frequency doesn't match the RAM frequency as you saw. If I change it to 32 or 34, the NB frequency & RAM frequency do match. Here are the questions I have. Sorry for all the questions. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

1) is the NB frequency not matching RAM frequency at 37 because some CPU algorithm is changing since it "seemingly" can't handle it or do I just need to adjust timings or some other settings to get the ratio to 1:1?

 

2) I think I've read in a couple of sources that Ryzen 9 5900x can handle 4000Mhz RAM, do you think this isn't the case?

 

3)Shouldn't my CPU be able to handle a RAm multiplier of 40 or is it the RAM that can't handle it(it says it's 4000Mhz RAM).

 

4) Do you think something might be faulty with any components given the details provided thus far?

 

5) I noticed each time I raised the RAM multiplier, the timings raised also. Do or should I decrease them & at what timings or incremental decrease?

 

6) Does the fact that I have my CPU OC at 4.5 instead of base change anything with the RAM multiplier or RAM output?

 

 

[-rascal-]

20 minutes ago, THATDUDE_GAMES said:

@-rascal-okay, I see what you're saying in regards to the CPU multiplier.

 

So, I was able to change the RAM multiplier to 32, 34, 37, w/o any problems "seemingly" BUT, it did not accept a multiplier of 40. I also noticed, when I changed to 37, the NB frequency doesn't match the RAM frequency as you saw. If I change it to 32 or 34, the NB frequency & RAM frequency do match. Here are the questions I have. Sorry for all the questions. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

1) is the NB frequency not matching RAM frequency at 37 because some CPU algorithm is changing since it "seemingly" can't handle it or do I just need to adjust timings or some other settings to get the ratio to 1:1?

 

2) I think I've read in a couple of sources that Ryzen 9 5900x can handle 4000Mhz, do you think this isn't the case?

 

3)Shouldn't my CPU be able to handle a RAm multiplier of 40 or is it the RAM that can't handle it(it says it's 4000Mhz RAM).

 

4) Do you think something might be faulty with any components given the details provided thus far?

 

5) I noticed each time I raised the RAM multiplier, the timings raised also. Do or should I decrease them & at what timings or incremental decrease?

 

6) Does the fact that I have my CPU OC at 4.5 instead of base change anything with the RAM multiplier or RAM output?

 

 

 

1) Yes, that is most likely the case. The CPU will automatically drop the ratio from 1:1 to 2:1 if it feels/detects that it cannot handle the higher DRAM frequency.

 

2) "UP TO" does not mean it is guaranteed. "Your mileage may vary" rule very, very much applies for such high frequency. From user feedback, DDR4-3600 is basically 90%+ success rate. Something like DDR4-4000 is like top 5% (or even less). AMD is only guaranteeing you up to DDR4-3200. Anything above DDR4-3200 requires overclocking the CPU's Integrated Memory Controller (IMC).

https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-9-5900x

 

3) Check my Point #2. The RAM is rated/tested for DDR4-4000. But your CPU and/or MOTHERBOARD might not be able to handle it.

 

4) No. You are pushing an aggressive DRAM overclock. It's like every Toyota Supra can get 1500+ HP (like the meme) .... no ..... yours could blow up at 700 HP.

 

5) Higher timings = higher latency = slower. If you want, you can READ UP, and THEN try your hands a manual DRAM overclocking.

As in don't use XMP, and control all/most of the Primary + Secondary + Tertiary memory timings, and voltages, etc, manually.

Here is the guide I followed... for my G.Skill TridentZ DDR4-3000 CL14 to run at DDR4-3600.

It wasn't an easy "set your numbers and good to go" thing....it took my like 4 days of a few hours each day, and a whiteboard / Microsoft Excel file full of different numbers.

That AND a bunch of trial-and-error, and stability testing.

https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/oc-guide/DDR4 OC Guide.md

 

6) Yes and no.

The CPU Multiplier should separated from the DRAM multiplier.

BUT, Because running the CPU at a higher frequency than stock (which is overclocking), and running the DRAM at higher than officially supported (which is overclocking) can drive overall CPU stability down.

 

Let's say if you run the Ryzen 5900X at Stock / Auto, and just overclock the DRAM to DDR4-3800. That will work.

Once you start pushing your Ryzen 5900X, say 4.5 GHz, or 4.8 GHz, etc. ... DDR4-3800 might not work anymore.

You may need to drop the DRAM down to say... DDR4-3733, DDR4-3600, or DDR4-3400.

[THATDUDE_GAMES]

@-rascal-this is making muchhhhh more sense now. Thank you so much for all of your help. I believe I comprehend what you're saying and will continue to tinker with it. You explained things very well for me. I'll try and provide another update soon enough.

[THATDUDE_GAMES]

@-rascal- So, I'm looking at the memory support list for Mobo and I believe from what the list shows, If I have 32gb RAM, I can only go up to 3600Mhz 2Rx8(2R meaning dual rank I believe), which is probably why if I go above 3600 MHz my memory frequency ratios no longer match. Based on the list, it doesn't support anything higher than 32GB since that's the highest density it shows. For 4000mhz and above, it only lists 8 or 16gb ram, some dual and some single. Idk if this means that I should get 4 sticks of 4000MHz RAM 2Rx8 and try that or if that will even work or if I should just leave as is.

 

Here is link to view support list, I downloaded the most recent version for Vermeer - https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/X570-AORUS-ELITE-WIFI-rev-1x/support#support-dl

 

Here is a screenshot of the most recent stats at 3600MHz from CPUZ attached. Fyi DRAM & NB frequency match and seem to be 1:1 but, FSB:DRAM ratio is at 3:54. If I choose 34,36,37 MHz, it will list a FSB:DRAM ratio of 3:5 to 3:54. If I choose 32, it will go to 1:16.

 

 

[-rascal-]

On 8/14/2021 at 1:08 PM, THATDUDE_GAMES said:

@-rascal- So, I'm looking at the memory support list for Mobo and I believe from what the list shows, If I have 32gb RAM, I can only go up to 3600Mhz 2Rx8(2R meaning dual rank I believe), which is probably why if I go above 3600 MHz my memory frequency ratios no longer match. Based on the list, it doesn't support anything higher than 32GB since that's the highest density it shows. For 4000mhz and above, it only lists 8 or 16gb ram, some dual and some single. Idk if this means that I should get 4 sticks of 4000MHz RAM 2Rx8 and try that or if that will even work or if I should just leave as is.

 

Here is link to view support list, I downloaded the most recent version for Vermeer - https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/X570-AORUS-ELITE-WIFI-rev-1x/support#support-dl

 

Here is a screenshot of the most recent stats at 3600MHz from CPUZ attached. Fyi DRAM & NB frequency match and seem to be 1:1 but, FSB:DRAM ratio is at 3:54. If I choose 34,36,37 MHz, it will list a FSB:DRAM ratio of 3:5 to 3:54. If I choose 32, it will go to 1:16.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The FSB:DRAM ratio is fine.

BCLK = FSB....

3:54.... (100 MHz x 54) / 3 = 1800

1:16 ... (100 MHz x 16) / 1 = 1600

 

I would not worry about chasing for DDR4-4000 RAM, unless you are trying to get the highest 3DMark world record / regional world record, or something. Shoot for DDR4-3600 with the best (lowest) memory timings you can get to run stable.

 

The more memory sticks you have, AND the higher density each stick is, the HARDER it is to have them run at higher frequency.

 

Your 32GB (2 x 16GB) kit is rated for CL18.

Even if you leave it at 18, but try reducing the other timings, that would be pretty good.

Of course, if you can drop the CL18 down to CL17 or CL16, WHILE keeping it stable, that would pretty damn impressive.

 

[THATDUDE_GAMES]

@-rascal- I think I have to get a new motherboard and RAM, it keeps crashing in game or while testing prime 95 with this setup no matter if I'm OC RAM or CPU or not.

[Mark Kaine]

On 8/14/2021 at 2:16 AM, -rascal- said:

Anything above DDR4-3200 requires overclocking the CPU's Integrated Memory Controller (IMC).

just a question , i have no idea what this is, i didnt do that either afaik, and had no issues overclocking 3200  RAM to 3600, so its an automatic thing perhaps? (i didnt use XMP because  *that* really didnt work…)

 

 

On 8/14/2021 at 2:16 AM, -rascal- said:

for my G.Skill TridentZ DDR4-3000 CL14 to run at DDR4-3600.

It wasn't an easy "set your numbers and good to go" thing...

hey, thats exactly  how I oc my RAM!

 

(ps: it definitely did this "training" thing, where it boots several times and checks everything… which i honestly thought was a myth, but it really  did it! So all i had to do was set voltage to 1.35 and let it do its "thing" )

 

 

2 hours ago, THATDUDE_GAMES said:

@-rascal- I think I have to get a new motherboard and RAM, it keeps crashing in game or while testing prime 95 with this setup no matter if I'm OC RAM or CPU or not.

Are you on latest BIOS?

 

And why new RAM? If u get a new mobo just check if the RAM is on the QVL, it should definitely work (unless its somehow broken , which you can test with memtest64)

[THATDUDE_GAMES]

I have the latest BIOS update, I've tried me rest but, not for a long duration. My RAM isn't on the memory support list I found out but, still has been working but, has been randomly crashing ever since I've tried to OC the RAM anything above 2133 which comes like that stock. I've also heard a loud Pop which mad PC power off and when I turned PC back on BIOS reset but, haven't been able to find any buldged or popped capacitors. CPUZ no longer shows both RAM stick slots but shows my total RAM capacity. Same thing for NZXT app only shows 16/32 GB but, windows system info and task manager show 32 and memtest uses around 30GB during test. Everything is so weird. Ive tried the RAM at 37, 36, 35, 32 and still crashes randomly in game or in prime 95.

[Mark Kaine]

Oh, i see, yeah that definitely sounds like something is broken (probably mobo)

[-rascal-]

11 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

just a question , i have no idea what this is, i didnt do that either afaik, and had no issues overclocking 3200  RAM to 3600, so its an automatic thing perhaps? (i didnt use XMP because  *that* really didnt work…)

 

 

hey, thats exactly  how I oc my RAM!

 

(ps: it definitely did this "training" thing, where it boots several times and checks everything… which i honestly thought was a myth, but it really  did it! So all i had to do was set voltage to 1.35 and let it do its "thing" )

 

 

Are you on latest BIOS?

 

And why new RAM? If u get a new mobo just check if the RAM is on the QVL, it should definitely work (unless its somehow broken , which you can test with memtest64)

 

I'm talking about the Z390 set-up with the i7-8086K, though.

That, and I have 4x (4 x 8GB setup) sticks, so it's going to be even harder compared to 2x sticks.

 

For my new Ryzen 5800X + Gigabyte B550 Aorus Pro AC build, it was pretty pain-free.

Literally enable XMP, save exit, motherboard did a little bit of self-training....and bam DDR4-3600 working.

 

And I usually look for G.Skill kits, and Samsung dies if possible.

But this time around, I went with a 2 x 16GB Crucial Ballistix RGB kit.

More specifically.... BL2K16G36C16U4BL

DDR4-3600 16-18-18-38 1.35V, worked literally out of the box, so I'm happy.