Is an H220 a good start to a loop?

[Ghost]

I'd

That part is key.

 

There are a few implications of a second GPU.

It runs hotter and louder. You have to dial most overclocks down.

Micro stutter.

More power draw.

 

Go to the Watercooling FAQ sticky and read my paragraph on "Is watercooling worth it"

[Hyydrah]

That part is key.

 

There are a few implications of a second GPU.

It runs hotter and louder. You have to dial most overclocks down.

Micro stutter.

More power draw.

 

Go to the Watercooling FAQ sticky and read my paragraph on "Is watercooling worth it"

They may run hotter but it isn't necessarily going to be noticeable. I've also never had a problem with having to lower any clock speeds ever. Micro stutter rarely occurs for most people and even when it does, it hardly affects anything, and power draw is negligible and shouldn't be an issue if you have a decent PSU (which you should have in the first place). For those minor or non-existent benefits, it's not worth sacrificing an almost doubled frame rate.

[Ghost]

They may run hotter but it isn't necessarily going to be noticeable. I've also never had a problem with having to lower any clock speeds ever. Micro stutter rarely occurs for most people and even when it does, it hardly affects anything, and power draw is negligible and shouldn't be an issue if you have a decent PSU (which you should have in the first place). For those minor or non-existent benefits, it's not worth sacrificing an almost doubled frame rate.

• Hotter = higher fan speeds = louder
• You need to lower clocks when you double up a gpu. You proably didn't max out the overclock on the one gpu (using voltage not temperature as a cap).
• Power draw is very important. Power costs money. In some places it isn't expensive but an extra 200W or power draw can end up costing you a lot after a year.
• The frame rate is not doubled. The only game I know of where it is close to being doubled is BF3. Some games don't even effectively use the second GPU.

[Hyydrah]

 

• Hotter = higher fan speeds = louder
• You need to lower clocks when you double up a gpu. You proably didn't max out the overclock on the one gpu (using voltage not temperature as a cap).
• Power draw is very important. Power costs money. In some places it isn't expensive but an extra 200W or power draw can end up costing you a lot after a year.
• The frame rate is not doubled. The only game I know of where it is close to being doubled is BF3. Some games don't even effectively use the second GPU.

 

1. Higher fan speeds doesn't necessarily mean that it will be noticeably louder.

2. Not always, especially with a very well performing cooler such as my GTX 680 DirectCU II TOP. (almost at a custom loop's temperatures, yet it's extremely quiet and wouldn't benefit with higher overclocks if its temperatures were lower)

3. If you're worried about the cost of electricity, why would you be spending money on a custom loop?

4. I said almost doubled, and in many common scenarios it is.

[Tony N]

I think I'm starting to have second thoughts about a custom loop. Is an h220 still a decent option if it is never expanded? I really like the look of it + my OC GPU temps are really not to bad considering its a reference cooler. My CPU temps to me are on the high side for such a mild OC, I don't think I scored very good in the silicone lottery.

[Ghost]

I think I'm starting to have second thoughts about a custom loop. Is an h220 still a decent option if it is never expanded? I really like the look of it + my OC GPU temps are really not to bad considering its a reference cooler. My CPU temps to me are on the high side for such a mild OC, I don't think I scored very good in the silicone lottery.

H220 is a great option if it is never expanded, in fact its an okay option expanded, is just that it is never as good as custom and therefore I advise people don't convert it.

 

All I can say is that people get too worried about watercooling. Leaks are rare. How often do people come on the forums saying they got a leak? I have yet to see a thread about it. I have personally had a leak in the past but its only because I screwed up badly.

 

In truth there is nothing to worry about. If you are worried about the money go to the FAQ and read my paragraph on "Is watercooling worth it?". I sum it up nicely there.

 

If you are changing your mind because of leaks don't. If it is because you think performance is more important than watercooling then change it. 

[Tony N]

I did actually read your paragraph on that and I decided right now for me spending that much money on it is not worth at the moment. My next rig ill probably go for it but for now ill just stick with closed loop stuff.

[The Ran]

Do not upgrade H220s. Its a waste of money. The re-sale value plummets if you touch them in any "disassemble" sort of way.

 

You are better off selling it and buying your own parts from scratch, you will end up with a better loop.

Who cares about resale value? You do realise the value of your custom loop dropped as soon as you ran liquid through it?

 

The expandability is a massive bucket of gimmickjuice. if you buy a h220 with the intention of expanding you're buying:

-a pump you can't decouple from the case

-an ugly cpu block

-a skinny 240 rad

It's just a tickbox feature swiftech has implemented to one-up the other aios and make sales imo.

-Why would you need to remove the pump from the CPU block? If it's for cleaning you can do that, and if for some reason the block won't work with a certain CPU (although why buy it if that's the case?) you can either run the pump still attached to the block or mount it to a separate pump top if Swiftech ever makes one to fit it.

-Being ugly is just an opinion and I think it looks rather good, better than a lot of block.

-Not everyone needs a 60mm thick 480, I'm doing fine with the single rad on a CPU and GPU and a second skinny 240 would be more than enough for any single GPU loop.

 

If you want to have both your CPU and GPU in your loop, just build a custom loop.  The H220 markets itself as expandable and while it certainly is "expandable" by that point, you're refilling the loop, probably buying your own tubing, and probably adding a second rad so you're building a whole loop anyway.  Personally, the H220 is a waste of money if you're immediately intending on expanding it. 

Even with adding that stuff the H220 is still cheaper. Think about what you get with it, a CPU block, pump, rad, res, two fans, and a pretty nifty fan splitter, buying all that stuff separately would have cost me at least an extra £100, took up more room, and taken more time to set up.

 

A good GPU and CPU loop will generally cost $300-400 CAD. I'd much rather add another 7950 than gain ~5FPS.

As above, the H220 is cheaper than buying it all separately. My whole loop cost barely more than another 7950 (disregarding that I'm using MITX) which would've meant a new power supply as well as still running hot and noisy. In fact I value the lower temps and noise more than I do the few frames I've gained during games.

[Hyydrah]

Who cares about resale value? You do realise the value of your custom loop dropped as soon as you ran liquid through it?

 

-Why would you need to remove the pump from the CPU block? If it's for cleaning you can do that, and if for some reason the block won't work with a certain CPU (although why buy it if that's the case?) you can either run the pump still attached to the block or mount it to a separate pump top if Swiftech ever makes one to fit it.

-Being ugly is just an opinion and I think it looks rather good, better than a lot of block.

-Not everyone needs a 60mm thick 480, I'm doing fine with the single rad on a CPU and GPU and a second skinny 240 would be more than enough for any single GPU loop.

 

Even with adding that stuff the H220 is still cheaper. Think about what you get with it, a CPU block, pump, rad, res, two fans, and a pretty nifty fan splitter, buying all that stuff separately would have cost me at least an extra £100, took up more room, and taken more time to set up.

 

As above, the H220 is cheaper than buying it all separately. My whole loop cost barely more than another 7950 (disregarding that I'm using MITX) which would've meant a new power supply as well as still running hot and noisy. In fact I value the lower temps and noise more than I do the few frames I've gained during games.

Then you're one of a kind. And don't expect temperatures anywhere near a custom loop, the H220 is disappointing for anything more than a CPU.

[Ghost]

Who cares about resale value? You do realise the value of your custom loop dropped as soon as you ran liquid through it?

Very incorrect. The value of a radiator for example will only drop by ~25% because its used. After that it will not drop no matter how long you use it. This works the same way for everything int he world though. As soon as you take the packaging off something and use it it will drop ~25% of its resale value.

[The Ran]

Then you're one of a kind. And don't expect temperatures anywhere near a custom loop, the H220 is disappointing for anything more than a CPU.

What would make using the H220 as part of my loop perform any worse than a completely custom loop with the same size, thickness, and thin density rad and fans? Except for perhaps a degree or two difference from the design of the CPU block the results will be identical except for cost.

 

Very incorrect. The value of a radiator for example will only drop by ~25% because its used. After that it will not drop no matter how long you use it. This works the same way for everything int he world though. As soon as you take the packaging off something and use it it will drop ~25% of its resale value.

A second hand new rad and second hand used rad would have different values, the former being higher. Perhaps the sellers would ask the same amount but the intrinsic value is still different, with a used rad there is the possibility of damage due to user error. If we use your reasoning that a used and unused rad have the same value then so would a new and used H220, if it wasn't for me trimming one of my fittings I could reassemble my H220 back to how it was and no one would know any different and thus it would have the same value.

[Hyydrah]

What would make using the H220 as part of my loop perform any worse than a completely custom loop with the same size, thickness, and thin density rad and fans? Except for perhaps a degree or two difference from the design of the CPU block the results will be identical except for cost.

 

A second hand new rad and second hand used rad would have different values, the former being higher. Perhaps the sellers would ask the same amount but the intrinsic value is still different, with a used rad there is the possibility of damage due to user error. If we use your reasoning that a used and unused rad have the same value then so would a new and used H220, if it wasn't for me trimming one of my fittings I could reassemble my H220 back to how it was and no one would know any different and thus it would have the same value.

No, the pump on the H220 is inferior to common custom watercooling pumps such as the MCP655 and the MCP35X. It makes a world of a difference. For reference, the H220 costs $150 while a MCP35X is $100, and that's just the pump alone.

[Ghost]

If it wasn't for me trimming one of my fittings I could reassemble my H220 back to how it was and no one would know any different and thus it would have the same value.

You would be lieing in your ad. If someone found out then they would get a refund.

[The Ran]

No, the pump on the H220 is inferior to common custom watercooling pumps such as the MCP655 and the MCP35X. It makes a world of a difference. For reference, the H220 costs $150 while a MCP35X is $100, and that's just the pump alone.

We're not talking about a quad GPU loop with 3 massive rads here, I'm running a single GPU, CPU, and currently the one rad and I'm sure it would be able to handle another 240.

 

You would be lieing in your ad. If someone found out then they would get a refund.

But that's the thing, they wouldn't find out as long as I used the same colour coolant. I wouldn't even have to lie either, just not mention that it had been disassembled, if the buyer didn't ask about it then I'd have no reason to bring it up. I'm not saying I would do this, I couldn't even if I wanted to, I'm just saying that even if you believed that the value would drop by a practical amount and the resale value was actually a big deal there are ways around it.

[Hyydrah]

We're not talking about a quad GPU loop with 3 massive rads here, I'm running a single GPU, CPU, and currently the one rad and I'm sure it would be able to handle another 240.

 

But that's the thing, they wouldn't find out as long as I used the same colour coolant. I wouldn't even have to lie either, just not mention that it had been disassembled, if the buyer didn't ask about it then I'd have no reason to bring it up. I'm not saying I would do this, I couldn't even if I wanted to, I'm just saying that even if you believed that the value would drop by a practical amount and the resale value was actually a big deal there are ways around it.

Even with a single CPU and GPU, multiple reviewers such as TimeToLiveCustoms AKA Overclock3D have been thoroughly disappointed by it. Adding more resistance with more radiators to an already struggling cooler like this is not recommended.

[Ghost]

But that's the thing, they wouldn't find out as long as I used the same colour coolant. I wouldn't even have to lie either, just not mention that it had been disassembled, if the buyer didn't ask about it then I'd have no reason to bring it up. I'm not saying I would do this, I couldn't even if I wanted to, I'm just saying that even if you believed that the value would drop by a practical amount and the resale value was actually a big deal there are ways around it.

I am sure with a cooler such as a H220 a buyer would directly ask if has been disassembled. I'm sure there would be marks on the screws that would show that a screwdriver has turned them as they are painted black.

[Hyydrah]

I am sure with a cooler such as a H220 a buyer would directly ask if has been disassembled. I'm sure there would be marks on the screws that would show that a screwdriver has turned them as they are painted black.

Exactly, it'll be really obvious that it's been modified.

[The Ran]

Even with a single CPU and GPU, multiple reviewers such as TimeToLiveCustoms AKA Overclock3D have been thoroughly disappointed by it. Adding more resistance with more radiators to an already struggling cooler like this is not recommended.

Well I seem to be doing fairly fine, I don't even think my pump runs at max under load. If the pump in a H100 can handle a CPU and 240 rad I don't see why the H220 pump which is about 3 times as powerful can't manage a GPU and second rad added to the loop. Quite frankly if it couldn't handle it do you really think a company like Swiftech would even suggest it (I do believe they also had a dual GPU loop running at one of the tech shows)?

 

I am sure with a cooler such as a H220 a buyer would directly ask if has been disassembled. I'm sure there would be marks on the screws that would show that a screwdriver has turned them as they are painted black.

They can be painted. Regardless it only cost me £120, even if I some how made a 50% loss on it that's not a huge amount of money, it's just not a big deal. I may even be able to make more money by actually parting it out, people buying it with the intention of expanding might just want the pump block and not the rad or fans and those can also be sold separately.

[Hyydrah]

Well I seem to be doing fairly fine, I don't even think my pump runs at max under load. If the pump in a H100 can handle a CPU and 240 rad I don't see why the H220 pump which is about 3 times as powerful can't manage a GPU and second rad added to the loop. Quite frankly if it couldn't handle it do you really think a company like Swiftech would even suggest it (I do believe they also had a dual GPU loop running at one of the tech shows)?

 

They can be painted. Regardless it only cost me £120, even if I some how made a 50% loss on it that's not a huge amount of money, it's just not a big deal. I may even be able to make more money by actually parting it out, people buying it with the intention of expanding might just want the pump block and not the rad or fans and those can also be sold separately.

A custom loop's temperatures will typically be better than "fairly fine". Sure they may work for you, but the H220 simply doesn't come close to a custom loop.

 

How do you know that the H220 pump is 3x as powerful?

 

Swiftech, as would any company, is obviously going to do whatever it takes to sell you their product. Just because it works doesn't mean that it will work well.

[Ghost]

Well I seem to be doing fairly fine, I don't even think my pump runs at max under load. If the pump in a H100 can handle a CPU and 240 rad I don't see why the H220 pump which is about 3 times as powerful can't manage a GPU and second rad added to the loop. Quite frankly if it couldn't handle it do you really think a company like Swiftech would even suggest it (I do believe they also had a dual GPU loop running at one of the tech shows)?

 

They can be painted. Regardless it only cost me £120, even if I some how made a 50% loss on it that's not a huge amount of money, it's just not a big deal. I may even be able to make more money by actually parting it out, people buying it with the intention of expanding might just want the pump block and not the rad or fans and those can also be sold separately.

A pump in a H100 is running in ideal conditions. The coolant is controlled.The restrictiveness of all the components is also controlled. They know exactly how much power they need for the pump to work. In fact they are so confident in the pump being powerful enough in the H100i they let you turn it down if you want and it still works.

 

Saying the H220 pump is 6 times more powerful is all good but did you know its half as powerful as a low-end laing pump and about a quarter as powerful as a high end laing pump.

 

You cannot paint a screw realistically. After it has been used. You would need the same paint and you would need a VERY thin layer. Impossible to recreate.

[Hyydrah]

They can be painted. Regardless it only cost me £120, even if I some how made a 50% loss on it that's not a huge amount of money, it's just not a big deal. I may even be able to make more money by actually parting it out, people buying it with the intention of expanding might just want the pump block and not the rad or fans and those can also be sold separately.

If $75 isn't a huge amount of money to you and you really value your temperatures, just build a custom loop.

[Tony N]

You can't really compair a H220 to a custom loop because of the price difference. It's like comparing a 7850 to a 7870, though the difference isn't significant, because they come in at a different price point you can't compair them apples to apples.

[Hyydrah]

A pump in a H100 is running in ideal conditions. The coolant is controlled.The restrictiveness of all the components is also controlled. They know exactly how much power they need for the pump to work. In fact they are so confident in the pump being powerful enough in the H100i they let you turn it down if you want and it still works.

 

Saying the H220 pump is 6 times more powerful is all good but did you know its half as powerful as a low-end laing pump and about a quarter as powerful as a high end laing pump.

 

You cannot paint a screw realistically. After it has been used. You would need the same paint and you would need a VERY thin layer. Impossible to recreate.

Aha, good point. I heard that the H100's pump runs at some measly wattage, especially compared to a MCP655 and the like.

[Hyydrah]

You can't really compair a H220 to a custom loop because of the price difference. It's like comparing a 7850 to a 7870, though the difference isn't significant, because they come in at a different price point you can't compair them apples to apples.

You're the one comparing them like apples to apples, thinking that you can add more radiators to it along with a GPU and CPU.

[Tony N]

I never said they performed the same, nor that adding more components to it would be a good decision. I just asked if adding stuff to an H220 was a good move and I got my answer.