Any recommendations

[TheeCanadian08]

I wanted to upgrade my current headphones which is an Astro a 40 for better sound when listening to music and also in game sounds. I did alittle bit of research and found that schiit modi magni stack is commonly used and I wanted to pair it with either sennheiser hd58x or hd 6xx both from mass drop. Main reason I wanted to upgrade is to be able to hear better footsteps 
 

I’m new to the whole audiophile scene any recommendations would help.

[OfficialTechSpace]

2 hours ago, TheeCanadian08 said:

schiit modi magni stack

I wanted to pair it with either sennheiser hd58x or hd 6xx both from mass drop

You did your research well, these look good. 

 

The Drop + Sennheiser products are pretty nice, especially for the price. I use the HD58X's personally, but something I think should be pointed out before going through with such a purchase is the benefits and drawbacks.

 

Benefits of the HD58X / HD6XX (Positive, Midpoint / Inconclusive, Negative)

+ Well built

+ Comfortable over long periods

~ Neutral sound signature (can be good or bad depending on your taste)

- Not very easy to drive to their maximum potential

- Can sound quite bland/boring, especially when paired with solid-state amplification (HD6XX in particular)

- Not great at imaging (helps with the locational direction for footsteps)

- Narrow soundstage

 

Either of these headphones would be decent daily-drivers for most tasks, although are a tad tiring for exclusively music. Might want to look into something more fun sounding like the Beyerdynamic Tygr 300R's for your headphones (slight V-Shaped tuning by comparison).

2 hours ago, TheeCanadian08 said:

Main reason I wanted to upgrade is to be able to hear better footsteps 

Footsteps mostly have to do with the upper midrange to lower-mid treble frequencies in terms of audibility. For better accuracy in locational direction, you'll want headphones with good imaging.

 

The kings of imaging at the moment (within reasonable price ranges, for headphones) are the Beyerdynamic Tygr 300R's, along with a few Audio Technica offerings such as the ATH R70X's. The Drop + Sennheiser PC38X's also get an honorable mention here.

 

Beyerdynamic Tygr 300R's review here:

 

Audio Technica ATH R70X review here:

 

Drop + Sennheiser PC38X's review here:

 

 

[rice guru]

2 hours ago, OfficialTechSpace said:

 

- Not very easy to drive to their maximum potential

The 58x is pretty damn easy to drive actually. 

[OfficialTechSpace]

9 hours ago, rice guru said:

The 58x is pretty damn easy to drive actually. 

"Not very easy to drive to their maximum potential" means what it says. I didn't say they were hard to drive, just hard to drive to their max potential.

 

You can make them audible off of onboard audio, but to power them well you need at least 0.5W+ at 150 ohms (which is hard to come by on a budget).

 

I have to run them on high-gain at 1 o' clock with my SP200 just to get a decent sound level. I just got lucky because THX amps have an extremely low noise-floor, unlike more budget amps like the Schiit Magni.

[rice guru]

59 minutes ago, OfficialTechSpace said:

"Not very easy to drive to their maximum potential" means what it says. I didn't say they were hard to drive, just hard to drive to their max potential.

 

You can make them audible off of onboard audio, but to power them well you need at least 0.5W+ at 150 ohms (which is hard to come by on a budget).

 

I have to run them on high-gain at 1 o' clock with my SP200 just to get a decent sound level. I just got lucky because THX amps have an extremely low noise-floor, unlike more budget amps like the Schiit Magni.

The 58x I not really at all hard to drive to their max potential. Though a d are pretty sensitive. I run them at 10 o'clock max otherwise it get deafening on my liquid spark on high gain. If we are talking the 6xx then I can see where your going with it. But the 58x is pretty damn easy to drive overall. 

 

Plus a schiit magni 3+ or even a heresy have noise floors that shouldn't be able to be heard until almost maxed out. 

 

 

 

[H713]

I might argue that no headphone is particularly hard to drive. Even the least sensitive 600 ohm headphones can be easily driven to deafening volume levels without having to resort to anything difficult. Most of the time, one or two parallel op-amps running off of +/- 15 V rails is plenty. If that isn't enough (which is rare), a discrete solution with +/- 24 V rails is easy enough to implement. Of course, the modern "fashionable" solution is to use a bridged output rather than higher voltage rails, but either solution can work perfectly well. 

 

Maybe my perspective is skewed from designing too many big power amplifiers, but it's so much easier to design a damn-near perfect amplifier for these kinds of loads using vacuum tubes and a note pad than it is to design a half-way respectable transducer with all the FEA software in the world. If you allow the use of transistors, op-amps and SPICE, then the amplifier is even easier. 

 

If we were talking about a 0.5 ohm load, it would be a different story.

 

 

 

 

 

[TheeCanadian08]

On 6/17/2021 at 11:46 PM, OfficialTechSpace said:

You did your research well, these look good. 

 

The Drop + Sennheiser products are pretty nice, especially for the price. I use the HD58X's personally, but something I think should be pointed out before going through with such a purchase is the benefits and drawbacks.

 

Benefits of the HD58X / HD6XX (Positive, Midpoint / Inconclusive, Negative)

+ Well built

+ Comfortable over long periods

~ Neutral sound signature (can be good or bad depending on your taste)

- Not very easy to drive to their maximum potential

- Can sound quite bland/boring, especially when paired with solid-state amplification (HD6XX in particular)

- Not great at imaging (helps with the locational direction for footsteps)

- Narrow soundstage

 

Either of these headphones would be decent daily-drivers for most tasks, although are a tad tiring for exclusively music. Might want to look into something more fun sounding like the Beyerdynamic Tygr 300R's for your headphones (slight V-Shaped tuning by comparison).

Footsteps mostly have to do with the upper midrange to lower-mid treble frequencies in terms of audibility. For better accuracy in locational direction, you'll want headphones with good imaging.

 

The kings of imaging at the moment (within reasonable price ranges, for headphones) are the Beyerdynamic Tygr 300R's, along with a few Audio Technica offerings such as the ATH R70X's. The Drop + Sennheiser PC38X's also get an honorable mention here.

 

Beyerdynamic Tygr 300R's review here:

 

Audio Technica ATH R70X review here:

 

Drop + Sennheiser PC38X's review here:

 

 

Thanks for the recommendation I’ve looked through all of them Found the best suited for me was the tygr 300r . Unfortunately couldn’t find it anywhere in stock or being sold. What about the dt990 I’ve heard a lot of people say they are really good for both gaming and music. Do you happen to have any experience on that 

[Dr0y]

I've heard that some found them a little too powerful in the highs ... never tried them tho so I'm just relating what I've read ...

 

I got the fidelio x2hr and also the akg k612pro ... I like them both but have a preference for the k612

[VoidX]

On 6/18/2021 at 4:43 AM, TheeCanadian08 said:

Main reason I wanted to upgrade is to be able to hear better footsteps

In this case, simply filtering the audio for this is way cheaper. It'll make the game sound horrible, but you can even filter out nearly footsteps only if done right.

[rice guru]

3 hours ago, TheeCanadian08 said:

Thanks for the recommendation I’ve looked through all of them Found the best suited for me was the tygr 300r . Unfortunately couldn’t find it anywhere in stock or being sold. What about the dt990 I’ve heard a lot of people say they are really good for both gaming and music. Do you happen to have any experience on that 

The treble can be a lot for most ears and it's not reccomended you get the modules lower than 250 ohm. And better to get a 250 or 600 ohm and an amp. I have the 990 and use it on the daily and for me it's hard to reccomend for music but as a gaming can it's excellent. If you want something both good for gaming and music without the need of an amp the 58x is my pick. If you are open to using an amp the he400i 2020 is pretty good just be prepared for almost no bass slam though. But if you still want to forgo the 990. I reccomend getting a liquid spark amp as it should help the treble response smoothen out along with warming up the bass and adding more control due to the power.

[TheeCanadian08]

44 minutes ago, rice guru said:

The treble can be a lot for most ears and it's not reccomended you get the modules lower than 250 ohm. And better to get a 250 or 600 ohm and an amp. I have the 990 and use it on the daily and for me it's hard to reccomend for music but as a gaming can it's excellent. If you want something both good for gaming and music without the need of an amp the 58x is my pick. If you are open to using an amp the he400i 2020 is pretty good just be prepared for almost no bass slam though. But if you still want to forgo the 990. I reccomend getting a liquid spark amp as it should help the treble response smoothen out along with warming up the bass and adding more control due to the power.

Originally i was going to go buy an amp anyways even if I went with the 58x. I was going to buy the schiit modi 3plus and magni. That’s enough to power the dt 990 250ohm correct ? 
 

also music is secondary my main reason for upgrading is I wanted to be able to hear better in games and also some what listen to music. If it’s not possible then mostly gaming. 
I’m guessing the 58x is the best balance out of the two ? 

[OfficialTechSpace]

4 hours ago, TheeCanadian08 said:

Thanks for the recommendation I’ve looked through all of them Found the best suited for me was the tygr 300r . Unfortunately couldn’t find it anywhere in stock or being sold. 

I believe they're currently restocking, some websites are still offering backorders and stock updates. 

 

Asking Beyerdynamic directly about the matter might be of more use. Contact (beyerdynamic.com)

4 hours ago, TheeCanadian08 said:

What about the dt990 I’ve heard a lot of people say they are really good for both gaming and music. Do you happen to have any experience on that 

The DT990's are good for what they are, but their intended purpose is for music production/mixing. This inherently means that you'll be missing out on a lot of soundstage, and getting a bland listening experience again. I protest recommending their mixing line of headphones for the average listener.

 

The next step (closer to the Tygr's) would be something more like the MMX300 MKII's. These would even be a step up from the Tygr's in most regards, but at least they're in stock. They have a lot more of a fun sound than you'd be getting with any of the Drop + Sennheiser cans or mixing-oriented Beyers.

 

MMX300 MKII review here:

 

23 minutes ago, TheeCanadian08 said:

I’m guessing the 58x is the best balance out of the two ? 

Not at all, we just went over this. Don't jump ship from Beyer just because one headphone was out of stock, the HD58X is still a bland/boring listening experience for the average user. Nothing's changed on that front.

[rice guru]

1 hour ago, TheeCanadian08 said:

Originally i was going to go buy an amp anyways even if I went with the 58x. I was going to buy the schiit modi 3plus and magni. That’s enough to power the dt 990 250ohm correct ? 
 

also music is secondary my main reason for upgrading is I wanted to be able to hear better in games and also some what listen to music. If it’s not possible then mostly gaming. 
I’m guessing the 58x is the best balance out of the two ? 

yep a magni will be enough for a 990. its just not as good as the liquid spark in regards to amp pairing but better than most amps in this price range. in regards to balance yes IMO the 58x has better balance of the 2. the 990 has a wider soundstage than 58x and better imaging than the 58x lending it to be better in gaming but the 58x is no slouch on imaging even though the soundstage is a bit intimate. the overall tuning is warm and smooth making it more enjoyable for more music. another alternative not yet considered is the dt 880 250 ohm. a much more flat frequency response than the 990 but just as good for gaming. but i would take @OfficialTechSpace advice and contacting beyerdynamic. directly to ask for a possible back order

[TheeCanadian08]

4 hours ago, OfficialTechSpace said:

I believe they're currently restocking, some websites are still offering backorders and stock updates. 

 

Asking Beyerdynamic directly about the matter might be of more use. Contact (beyerdynamic.com)

The DT990's are good for what they are, but their intended purpose is for music production/mixing. This inherently means that you'll be missing out on a lot of soundstage, and getting a bland listening experience again. I protest recommending their mixing line of headphones for the average listener.

 

The next step (closer to the Tygr's) would be something more like the MMX300 MKII's. These would even be a step up from the Tygr's in most regards, but at least they're in stock. They have a lot more of a fun sound than you'd be getting with any of the Drop + Sennheiser cans or mixing-oriented Beyers.

 

MMX300 MKII review here:

 

Not at all, we just went over this. Don't jump ship from Beyer just because one headphone was out of stock, the HD58X is still a bland/boring listening experience for the average user. Nothing's changed on that front.

Okay will do that yeah I’ve looked at mmx300 as well I wanted an open back as far as for the mic I don’t need one. But I seen it had good reviews I checked them out along side the tygr 300r .. I emailed them so I’ll wait for a respond on when’s a possible restock unfortunately these are not being sold any where in my local area I’m in Canada. 
 

[TheeCanadian08]

2 hours ago, rice guru said:

yep a magni will be enough for a 990. its just not as good as the liquid spark in regards to amp pairing but better than most amps in this price range. in regards to balance yes IMO the 58x has better balance of the 2. the 990 has a wider soundstage than 58x and better imaging than the 58x lending it to be better in gaming but the 58x is no slouch on imaging even though the soundstage is a bit intimate. the overall tuning is warm and smooth making it more enjoyable for more music. another alternative not yet considered is the dt 880 250 ohm. a much more flat frequency response than the 990 but just as good for gaming. but i would take @OfficialTechSpace advice and contacting beyerdynamic. directly to ask for a possible back order

Between the dt880 and dt990 which would you suggest for gaming / music. I noticed the dt 880 is a lot more pricy compared to the dt990 both 250ohm and right now the dt990 I could pick up for around 240cad.

 

also sorry noob question I’m new to this would I still need a dac if I buy the liquid spark. Only reason I took a look at the modi magni stack is because it was the most common ones to be used I’ve also look at other amps/ dacs like the senheiser gsx. Felt I didn’t need the extra 7.1 current headphones I’m using are Astro a40. So anything would honestly be an upgrade to me 

[rice guru]

34 minutes ago, TheeCanadian08 said:

Between the dt880 and dt990 which would you suggest for gaming / music. I noticed the dt 880 is a lot more pricy compared to the dt990 both 250ohm and right now the dt990 I could pick up for around 240cad.

 

also sorry noob question I’m new to this would I still need a dac if I buy the liquid spark. Only reason I took a look at the modi magni stack is because it was the most common ones to be used I’ve also look at other amps/ dacs like the senheiser gsx. Felt I didn’t need the extra 7.1 current headphones I’m using are Astro a40. So anything would honestly be an upgrade to me 

If you don't mind the sound of the 990. I prefer the 990. If you need a dac to go along with the modi the liquid spark dac exists to wmgo with the liquid spark amp

[TheeCanadian08]

35 minutes ago, rice guru said:

If you don't mind the sound of the 990. I prefer the 990. If you need a dac to go along with the modi the liquid spark dac exists to wmgo with the liquid spark amp

Unfortunately I’ve never tried dt990 and there’s no way that I can Canada doesn’t allow returns of used headphones 

[rice guru]

1 hour ago, TheeCanadian08 said:

Unfortunately I’ve never tried dt990 and there’s no way that I can Canada doesn’t allow returns of used headphones 

Strange I've been able to in the past. I'm. Canadian by the way and have returned several headphones before. To amazon at least.i just made sure it was being sold and shipped by Amazon.

[OfficialTechSpace]

3 hours ago, TheeCanadian08 said:

as well I wanted an open back

Any particular reason why you'd prefer an open-back pair? In this pricerange, you'll see no benefit but sound leakage.

[rice guru]

12 minutes ago, OfficialTechSpace said:

Any particular reason why you'd prefer an open-back pair? In this pricerange, you'll see no benefit but sound leakage.

In this price range if you want Soundstage it's perfectly attainable. 

[OfficialTechSpace]

8 minutes ago, rice guru said:

In this price range if you want Soundstage it's perfectly attainable. 

Not for Sennheisers sadly 

For the Beyers possibly, but they're still meant to be intimate mixing monitors. The closed-back MMX300 MKII's have more soundstage than all of their mixing-class cans by comparison, so soundstage is not necessarily directly linked to having an open enclosure.

[rice guru]

Just now, OfficialTechSpace said:

Not for Sennheisers sadly 

Yep aggreed. But adui technica ,akg, phillips , hifiman and of course beyer have oferrings that have wide sounddstages

[TheeCanadian08]

59 minutes ago, rice guru said:

Strange I've been able to in the past. I'm. Canadian by the way and have returned several headphones before. To amazon at least.i just made sure it was being sold and shipped by Amazon.

The only headphones out of this that are sold by Amazon is the dt990 pro which is the 80ohm the 58x 6xx only massdrop .. the tygr 300r I only found on the beyerdynamic which currently is sold out 

[rice guru]

1 minute ago, TheeCanadian08 said:

The only headphones out of this that are sold by Amazon is the dt990 pro which is the 80ohm and the mmx300 is around 400 cad that’s why I was a little hesitant to buy it since I still have to buy an amp and dac. 

Other options to look at to check out on amazon is the phillips fidelio x2 hr. It seems a lot of european brands are over priced currently probably due to low stock and hifiman he 400i 2020 would have been my other pick doesn't seem to be available currently. 

[TheeCanadian08]

1 hour ago, OfficialTechSpace said:

Any particular reason why you'd prefer an open-back pair? In this pricerange, you'll see no benefit but sound leakage.

Would I have to spend more in order to see a benifits to it ?