5800x problems with cooling a 5800x

[Raikalover]

so i bought a new pc a month ago (specs in the image + an old 1050 ti) but i have a problem with the cooling of my CPU when i am using it a little bit the temp sits around 70 degrees Celsius and if i hit it hard it instantly spikes to 90 degrees.

 

the cooler said it was for 150 watt TDP and my friend also said it was enough.

 

i first thought it was my airflow so i installed a 3 extra fans (2 in the front and 1 on the cooler).

 

this lowered the temp a little bit but it still hits 90 degrees.

 

do you have any idea wat causes this and how i can fix it?

 

Thanks.

[Bombastinator]

A decent four pipe cooler like a pure rock2 should be enough for a 5800x in most situations.  
possibilities I see:

bad cooler mount- repaste the cooler and see if that produces improved cooling.  What paste are you using?

 

hot case- you seem to be exploring that one. More fans isn’t always better though it’s about airflow not #of fans.

 

overclock- with enough overclock overwhelming a four pipe cooler is quite possible.  So either more cooler or less overclock.

 

[Chris Pratt]

First, the Pure Rock 2 is a decent cooler and an excellent value where it competes, but that's firmly in the middle of the pack. Adding an extra fan to it helps, but it's not the most capable cooler for a 5800X, which tends to run hot even as far as Zen 3 goes, which runs hot in general.

.

Second, the Pure Base 500 case, is a silence optimized case, which means it doesn't have great airflow. You only have the vents at the side to work with. Again, that's not necessarily "bad", but it compounds your problems here.

 

Finally, the Pure Wings 2 fans are airflow optimized fans, but when you're trying to pull fresh air from side vents in the front of the case, you need pressure optimized fans.

 

So, the first thing would be getting pressure optimized fans, which would give you more fresh air in your case to work with. Then, I'd get a higher end cooler. You can stick with Be Quiet! If you like. Even something like a Shadow Rock 3 or Dark Rock 4 would greatly improve your situation.

 

If you still need help, it may be time to consider a different case, preferably something with a mesh front. Unfortunately, Be Quiet! doesn't have a lot on offer here. The Silent Base 802 would work, but that's a *much* bigger case.

 

Other things you can try are running your fans with a more agressive fan curve. That's going to cause more noise, though. You can also try undervolting the 5800X using the PBO2 curve optimizer. Less voltage means lower temps, and Zen 3 usually performs much better undervolted anyways.

 

33 minutes ago, Raikalover said:

the cooler said it was for 150 watt TDP

TDP is entirely meaningless. Both AMD and Intel have their own separate ways of coming up with their number, and cooler manufacturers likewise decide TDP of their coolers on their own. There's no industry standard, so comparison is impossible, because there's no like for like.

[freeagent]

In hwinfo64 I saw my 5600X @ well over its 65w rating. It could do 120-130w no problem, and if you lean on it 140w.. You have two more cores.. Another example.. nowhere on the box for my 5900X does it say 105w.. because that would be fibbing. With the CPU running in its stock clock range up to 4950, with CO active @ -30, PPT in hwinfor64 says 202w @ 4500MMHz and the meter on the wall say's 370w during Linpack Xtreme lol. They might be 7nm but they are not that small on power. I didn't check to see what this pulls with a manual all core oc, I would imagine it would be pretty gross. I cant run it too far anyways.. its not that kind of CPU

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, freeagent said:

In hwinfo64 I saw my 5600X @ well over its 65w rating. It could do 120-130w no problem, and if you lean on it 140w.. You have two more cores.. Another example.. nowhere on the box for my 5900X does it say 105w.. because that would be fibbing. With the CPU running in its stock clock range up to 4950, with CO active @ -30, PPT in hwinfor64 says 202w @ 4500MMHz and the meter on the wall say's 370w during Linpack Xtreme lol. They might be 7nm but they are not that small on power. I didn't check to see what this pulls with a manual all core oc, I would imagine it would be pretty gross. I cant run it too far anyways.. its not that kind of CPU

Entirely meaningless is perhaps strong but not inaccurate.  The cpu makers like to minimize the amount of heat they say their product makes and the cooler makers like to maximize the claimed cooling ability of their product and they all use different measurement systems that may not actually agree.  This was a problem with horsepower and car manufacturers in the 1950’s and 60’s.  Some agency or other finally had to step in and force a common baseline.  This has not happened with computers.  

[Chris Pratt]

41 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Entirely meaningless is perhaps strong but not inaccurate.  The cpu makers like to minimize the amount of heat they say their product makes and the cooler makers like to maximize the claimed cooling ability of their product and they all use different measurement systems that may not actually agree.  This was a problem with horsepower and car manufacturers in the 1950’s and 60’s.  Some agency or other finally had to step in and force a common baseline.  This has not happened with computers.  

When, like in AMD's case, you have a formula to derive a number in watts, and that formula literally doesn't have power in it at all, that's pretty meaningless.

 

Some of the ways other manufacturers calculate TDP may be "better" to varying degrees, but if I, as a consumer, can't buy a 65W cooler for a 65W CPU and be good, then it all means nothing.

[Bombastinator]

15 minutes ago, Chris Pratt said:

When, like in AMD's case, you have a formula to derive a number in watts, and that formula literally doesn't have power in it at all, that's pretty meaningless.

 

Some of the ways other manufacturers calculate TDP may be "better" to varying degrees, but if I, as a consumer, can't buy a 65W cooler for a 65W CPU and be good, then it all means nothing.

That level of accuracy definitely isn’t there.

[freeagent]

Sorry I was mistaken.. it was 215w under that load from their advertised 105w part that shows 83w at the wall to type this message lol.. but I have seen 65w to 370w at the wall with just the CPU active.. talk about bipolar. Efficient when it suits them.. but for the most part they are. 5800X has always been a curiosity to me.. I wanted one just for the single core speed, but couldn't justify the price already owning a 5600X. I wanted to know if it was as hard to cool as everyone says.. I can say the 5900X isn't the easiest, but its not the worst.. those 100c core temps from Intel were always suspenseful, that's what made it fun.. Like a game of keep away.. 90 is ok but watch out for 100.. but 105-107 is when OTP kicked in

 

/ramble

[Bombastinator]

3 hours ago, freeagent said:

Sorry I was mistaken.. it was 215w under that load from their advertised 105w part that shows 83w at the wall to type this message lol.. but I have seen 65w to 370w at the wall with just the CPU active.. talk about bipolar. Efficient when it suits them.. but for the most part they are. 5800X has always been a curiosity to me.. I wanted one just for the single core speed, but couldn't justify the price already owning a 5600X. I wanted to know if it was as hard to cool as everyone says.. I can say the 5900X isn't the easiest, but its not the worst.. those 100c core temps from Intel were always suspenseful, that's what made it fun.. Like a game of keep away.. 90 is ok but watch out for 100.. but 105-107 is when OTP kicked in

 

/ramble

So people are saying a 5800x is HARDER to cool than a 5900x?! I don’t see how that could happen total heat wise.  a 5900x would have to have more cores in it.  I suppose a 5800 could have more concentrated heat at a single point depending on relative core layout.  The cores are the same though.  I’m not sure how many cores per chipset AMD is doing.  I suppose a 5900x could have more total cores but they’re more spread out under the ihs.  I’m not sure that makes all that much of a difference though.  I was under the impression the issue reviewers had with the 5800x when it came out before the chip crunch was poor price/performance compared to the 5600 & 5900, not engineering issues.  The 5800 i though ram a good bit cooler than the 11700k heat wise, not effectively the same or worse.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Bombastinator
Mia wrote in one instance wrote 5800 meant 5900

[freeagent]

25 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

So people are saying a 5800x is HARDER to cool than a 5900x?! I don’t see how that could happen total heat wise.  a 5800x would have to have more cores in it.  I suppose a 5800 could have more concentrated heat at a single point depending on relative core layout.  The cores are the same though.  I’m not sure how many cores per chipset AMD is doing.  I suppose a 5900x could have more total cores but they’re more spread out under the ihs.  I’m not sure that makes all that much of a difference though.  I was under the impression the issue reviewers had with the 5800x when it came out before the chip crunch was poor price/performance compared to the 5600 & 5900, not engineering issues.  The 5800 i though ram a good bit cooler than the 11700k heat wise, not effectively the same or worse.

Yeah I'm not too sure what to say about that

 

Biggest complaint I see from 5800X owners is heat.. but chances are a good chunk of them are undercooled in a variety of ways. I share your thinking on this, I would have thought the bigger CPU would have been harder to cool, and it is imo, but for different reasons.. mostly because there is just moar of everything

 

I know my 5600X had its moments too, depending on what its task was.. most of the time it was pretty decent. 

[rockyroller]

I only got my 5800x running yesterday, but to give you info with a MSI 240r AiO cooler it runs at 51-54C using stock BIOS setting.  MoBo is at 40C to give an idea of case temp, and 3 fans in, 1 x rear + 2 AiO fans out,  room temp is 23C.

[rockyroller]

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

So people are saying a 5800x is HARDER to cool than a 5900x?! I don’t see how that could happen total heat wise.  a 5800x would have to have more cores in it.  I suppose a 5800 could have more concentrated heat at a single point depending on relative core layout.  The cores are the same though.  I’m not sure how many cores per chipset AMD is doing.  I suppose a 5900x could have more total cores but they’re more spread out under the ihs.  I’m not sure that makes all that much of a difference though.  I was under the impression the issue reviewers had with the 5800x when it came out before the chip crunch was poor price/performance compared to the 5600 & 5900, not engineering issues.  The 5800 i though ram a good bit cooler than the 11700k heat wise, not effectively the same or worse.

 

the 5800x isn't tuned down in any way as it is like you say a single ccd, The 5900 and 5950 are both tuned down a bit to reduce heat as they have 2 ccd side by side.

I have no idea why reviewers took the position they did, but it seemed to be just based on shop price rather than what you actually get. But I view the 5800x as the only Zen 3 CPU running at its fullest stable potential with room to O/C and U/V, all the others are tuned down by turning off faulty cores and/or lowering the mhz a bit to reduce potential overheating. 

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, freeagent said:

Yeah I'm not too sure what to say about that

 

Biggest complaint I see from 5800X owners is heat.. but chances are a good chunk of them are undercooled in a variety of ways. I share your thinking on this, I would have thought the bigger CPU would have been harder to cool, and it is imo, but for different reasons.. mostly because there is just moar of everything

 

I know my 5600X had its moments too, depending on what its task was.. most of the time it was pretty decent. 

There was an instance where I wrote 5800 but meant 5900.  (fixed it) Is that what you mean?
 

[Bombastinator]

58 minutes ago, rockyroller said:

 

the 5800x isn't tuned down in any way as it is like you say a single ccd, The 5900 and 5950 are both tuned down a bit to reduce heat as they have 2 ccd side by side.

I have no idea why reviewers took the position they did, but it seemed to be just based on shop price rather than what you actually get. But I view the 5800x as the only Zen 3 CPU running at its fullest stable potential with room to O/C and U/V, all the others are tuned down by turning off faulty cores and/or lowering the mhz a bit to reduce potential overheating. 

Are you saying theirs is done in a different way than in previous iterations? There was a 3600 3709/3800 and a 3900 and 3950 to compare them to.

[freeagent]

Just now, Bombastinator said:

There was an instance where I wrote 5800 but meant 5900.  (fixed it) Is that what you mean?
 

No sir, I mean people have been saying the 5800X is harder to cool than the 5900X. The 5900 can be a challenge, especially if you have a high ambient temp. I think I read one guy had both and his 59 was easier to cool. Still kicking myself for getting the 5600 and not the 5800 my first go around. Because if I had.. I probably wouldn't have got the 5900x.

 

So.. the next time you have a choice between 6, 8 or 12.. and you have some cash, just skip the little guy..

[Bombastinator]

44 minutes ago, freeagent said:

No sir, I mean people have been saying the 5800X is harder to cool than the 5900X. The 5900 can be a challenge, especially if you have a high ambient temp. I think I read one guy had both and his 59 was easier to cool. Still kicking myself for getting the 5600 and not the 5800 my first go around. Because if I had.. I probably wouldn't have got the 5900x.

 

So.. the next time you have a choice between 6, 8 or 12.. and you have some cash, just skip the little guy..

The 5800 was not well liked when it came out mostly becaus it’s msrp was high compared to the 5600 or 5900.  It only really got bought after the chip crunch stated because it was on the shelf and available whereas the 5900 and 5950 weren’t. 

[rockyroller]

10 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Are you saying theirs is done in a different way than in previous iterations? There was a 3600 3709/3800 and a 3900 and 3950 to compare them to.

I don't know how the Zen 2 was made as I wasn't getting one so never researched it, but AMD for the Zen 3 made only one ccd of 8 cpu for all the CPUs,  The 5 and 7 series have one ccd each and the series 9 have two side by side. 

I found techpowerup review one of the best at explaining the chips in detail and you can see by the benchmarks how some were detuned and the 5800x wasn't.

I can only see heat instability of having 2 cdd side by side as the cause for detuning the series 9. More cores made up for the detune in other benchmarks.

[rockyroller]

8 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

The 5800 was not well liked when it came out mostly becaus it’s msrp was high compared to the 5600 or 5900.  It only really got bought after the chip crunch stated because it was on the shelf and available whereas the 5900 and 5950 weren’t. 

why is why I feel the comparisons were flawed. The 5600 and 5900 were both cdds with two cpus turned off per cdd. It was like comparing a fully working cdd to ones that failed the quality control and had 2 cores turned off to make it work.

In pricing the 5800x is more akin to the 5950x, as both used fully working ccds.

[rockyroller]

9 hours ago, freeagent said:

No sir, I mean people have been saying the 5800X is harder to cool than the 5900X. The 5900 can be a challenge, especially if you have a high ambient temp. I think I read one guy had both and his 59 was easier to cool. Still kicking myself for getting the 5600 and not the 5800 my first go around. Because if I had.. I probably wouldn't have got the 5900x.

 

So.. the next time you have a choice between 6, 8 or 12.. and you have some cash, just skip the little guy..

I believe you post starts to highlight what I found missing during my researching what cpu and cooler to buy.

To give more detail I knew I wanted a AiO as my last air cooler suffered room dust getting into the fins.

Every AiO brand said it fits AM4 but nothing about what CPU it couldn't cool. So I opted for the MSI based on 1) looks as I only had a 2 fan slot free in the top of the case.

I spend time here in the forum talking 5800x vs 5900x BUT It was only reading the bottom of the page on the MSI website under the fits AM4 the cooler I bought only supported the 5800x and no higher. This was not information provided by any of the retailers whilst I was price watching.

 

So summing up, what coolers are best for the higher heat generating cpus vs the mid range and lower is no simply task for the normal person.

[freeagent]

2 hours ago, rockyroller said:

I believe you post starts to highlight what I found missing during my researching what cpu and cooler to buy.

To give more detail I knew I wanted a AiO as my last air cooler suffered room dust getting into the fins.

Every AiO brand said it fits AM4 but nothing about what CPU it couldn't cool. So I opted for the MSI based on 1) looks as I only had a 2 fan slot free in the top of the case.

I spend time here in the forum talking 5800x vs 5900x BUT It was only reading the bottom of the page on the MSI website under the fits AM4 the cooler I bought only supported the 5800x and no higher. This was not information provided by any of the retailers whilst I was price watching.

 

So summing up, what coolers are best for the higher heat generating cpus vs the mid range and lower is no simply task for the normal person.

Your comment about the dust in the air cooler  got me thinking.. if you hated dusting out the heat sink, you are going to hate the rad even more

 

Makes sense about the detune, at TPU we have a thread just for aida64 where a bunch of us run the shit out of our rigs post a screenshot. With my 5600 the lowest latency I achieved in windows without cheating was 49.8ns, but generally 51ns was normal for me.. the lowest I got with my 5900 is 54 I think, maybe 53ns.

 

Ahh well. That 5800 is still a beast. Might sell my 5900 now

[rockyroller]

2 hours ago, freeagent said:

Your comment about the dust in the air cooler  got me thinking.. if you hated dusting out the heat sink, you are going to hate the rad even more

 

Makes sense about the detune, at TPU we have a thread just for aida64 where a bunch of us run the shit out of our rigs post a screenshot. With my 5600 the lowest latency I achieved in windows without cheating was 49.8ns, but generally 51ns was normal for me.. the lowest I got with my 5900 is 54 I think, maybe 53ns.

 

Ahh well. That 5800 is still a beast. Might sell my 5900 now

Where there is a vacuum cleaner and a brush there is a way  But I have to admit I added a lot more air filters to this build.

[freeagent]

In my Meshify C I have 4x 120x38s setup for intake, as well as a TY-143. And I have a single 120x38 exhausting.. so things get a bit dusty, I blow mine out once or twice a month

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, freeagent said:

In my Meshify C I have 4x 120x38s setup for intake, as well as a TY-143. And I have a single 120x38 exhausting.. so things get a bit dusty, I blow mine out once or twice a month

Some meshifys have top ventilation some don’t. I assume you have a “don’t”?  If you have a “do” there may be options to reduce the amount of dust if you care.  May cost noise and money.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Bombastinator

[freeagent]

32 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Some meshifys have top ventilation some don’t. I assume you have a “don’t”?  If you have a “do” there may be options to reduce the amount of dust if you care.  May cost noise and money.

Oh yes, I have all mesh and filters removed. I have all of the positions populated.. it is excessive.. but the plus side is I can run my fans @ 5v and not hear them and still get excellent cooling.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, freeagent said:

Oh yes, I have all mesh and filters removed. I have all of the positions populated.. it is excessive.. but the plus side is I can run my fans @ 5v and not hear them and still get excellent cooling.

With 3 in and one out as the only possible combo I suspect that overpressure is just going to be the way of things unless you run your exhaust fan very fast and your front fans very slow.