Ryzen RAM speeds a myth?

[Mark Kaine]

Ok this really didnt do much for the Tomb Raider score, 49.2FPS, and second time it crashed. Only the game though, not the PC. Thats why i use Tomb Raider, the thing hates overclocks lol...

 

18 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

200mhz = 210 CB score increase. 

Now run the memory stock 2133 + 200mhz OC and what is the difference?

Yeah, that would be one way to do it.

Although OC doesn't seem stable, maybe I lower it to 3.75?

18 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Of course tighten timings. One at a time though. 

By how much roughly? - 2 each?

And one at a time ok.

 

 

 

[Beerzerker]

10 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

I never said anything else though.

My approach was literally simple, out of the box, default settings vs XMP, because I think thats what most people do and what I do.  Of course it would be better if I had higher speed RAM to test too, but then probably my motherboard would hold me back?

 

Haha, I would probably try that but I think the mobo is really not meant for RAM overclocking? (b350m mortar)  i cant even get it to run 1hz above rated speed, immediate crash upon windows login lol (bios is "fine")

 

Literally the only reason I did these tests is because of my recent BIOS woes - I updated my BIOS and my R5 3600 wouldn't boot anymore ?? Can you believe it, MSI have a *broken* BIOS as the latest non beta BIOS… 

 

It basically removes compatibility with 3000 series lol, so luckily I had my 2200g  laying around and it boots with that! 

 

So i just thought new CPU Im going to test this, because I already knew the RAM makes zero noticable difference with my 3600 CPU, so in a way, if it did with the 2200g something would be probably wrong with the 3600 or the mobo - but it doesn't!

 

So whatever it is, its maybe just the motherboard being slow, or the RAM being subpar, its most likely not the CPU!?

 

But that *is* basically what im saying, ive seen "tests" with overclocked RAM and throughout better FPS, like 10, 20 + FPS only with memory tuning! So A I dont believe it and B even if true, who does that, memory tweaking for days? Almost no one, people dont really have time for that!

So yes, its a good show, but not really applicable for every day / average gamer use - in fact most people I talked with are scared af about overclocking,  they think it blows up their PC!  (well, it might!)

 

 

More believable imo, but thats not whats being shown by "influencers" , its the whole litany of popular games (or ones they think are popular)

 

 

You spoke the magic word "Why" right there.
Those boards and their lesser chipsets will not run your RAM like others will. You probrably have a few options for tweaking but nothing write home about, the exact chipset setup you've got is just above an A320 setup, which I do have one of those here with pratically zero RAM tweaking options aside from XMP profile and some basic PC speed settings.... Maybe CL and that's really about it. RAM voltage is limited if it's even there as an option period (Can't remember) and would have to set it up again to confirm if it does or not.

Some games respond to RAM tweaks, some don't care about it so the game being used for testing matters.
Benchmarks that are more RAM oriented like Super PI will reveal any differences, it's kinda weird but with Intel your RAM speed itself makes nearly no difference at all, those differences being in the timings used including secondaries and so on.

With Ryzen it's more of a factor with RAM speed but timings still matter too. You will see a difference in both, speeds and timings used (Of course) and unlike Intel based setups you have to crank the RAM MHz up a little to get the most out of it. They say 3600 is optimal but that can also come down to how you have them tweaked too, there are additional gains to be had even above 3600 - Thing is are you willing to take the time and trouble to get it?
For most probrably not.

Anyhoo, I believe I shown this before and definitley doing it here to prove it CAN be done at least.
I have a pair of screenies from running my 7700K in my Apex and was tweaking around the other evening, this shows with Intel, RAM speed itself doesn't make any real difference. Everything except for the actual RAM speed was identical between runs, all tweaks and timings set manually.

[dean_5234]

17 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

If you disagree please explain, and do not mention GN as he always heavily tweaks RAM and therefore is irrelevant to this discussion. This isnt about overclocking, this is about what you get if buy expensive, "fast" RAM.

 

Not as an accusation but a question, where do you get your information that GN's base tests are with overclocked and tweaked ram? I am curious since I use GN a lot when recommending products.

 

Look, I know this topic has been discussed to death and its pretty clear your conclusion is debatable to say the least, but its a pretty bold claim to try to disprove thousands of tests by reputable and smart reviewers such as GN Steve and many more with this evidence.

[Mark Kaine]

6 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

Those boards and their lesser chipsets will not run your RAM like others will

Yeah, thats expected, I still should see a difference between stock and xmp 3200 though? Which I kinda did with ROTTR, but its only *1FPS* which is really within margin of error.

 

I also can say i get about 100 points more in cb with 3200 vs stock, so there *is* a benefit, but its just not as big as its made out to be, and on top of it, what you guys say is that its not an universal boost or anything but rather heavily depended on games and applications.

Which is something I can live with, would have definitely wanted to know before buying 16GB 3200 though could have probably just kept my old 8GB 3000 lol.

[Craftyawesome]

AFAIK, ryzen needing fast memory is mostly because many ryzen CPUs have multiple CCXs. Core to core latency between CCXs is linked to the infinity fabric speed, which is linked to the RAM speed.

 

The 2200g only has one CCX, so this part isn't relevant. It also isn't very fast, so it's probably hard to actually reach performance that would need fast RAM. I would try the 3600 again.

 

[Mark Kaine]

On 5/18/2021 at 1:49 AM, ShrimpBrime said:

Of course tighten timings. One at a time though. 

 

200mhz = 210 CB score increase. 

Now run the memory stock 2133 + 200mhz OC and what is the difference?

So i updated my bios and  swapped my 3600/3070 back and it works again (previously was no boot because the "agesa 1.0.0.6 (?)" update was *not* compatible lol (thanks, MSI) 

 

But the conclusion for now is, neither my RAM nor my motherboard oc for shit...  at least i got the 2200g "stable" at 3.75 (although I have no idea how stable that really was, not enough  testing)

 

 

On 5/18/2021 at 7:57 PM, Craftyawesome said:

The 2200g only has one CCX, so this part isn't relevant. It also isn't very fast, so it's probably hard to actually reach performance that would need fast RAM. I would try the 3600 again

As i said for another similar post already , i dont think you're wrong, I however *do* remember that "fast RAM, at least 3000mhz" has been pushed heavily by *all* parties for exactly that CPU - "the budget gaming APU" .  Which in the end was nothing but a marketing gag, apparently...  

 

 

As for trying again, I would really like to, but I dont trust this motherboard, its extremely frickle, and I have the feeling its better not to touch the settings too much.

 

Funny enough there seems something not quite right since I set a "pbo offset" few weeks ago for example, even though i have reset CMOS several times ,and updated the BIOS.

 

 

BTW what the heck is "AMD overclocking"? Its something that was added with this BIOS, so at least MSI seems to think this board can OC. >.>

 

[Craftyawesome]

2 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

As i said for another similar post already , i dont think you're wrong, I however *do* remember that "fast RAM, at least 3000mhz" has been pushed heavily by *all* parties for exactly that CPU - "the budget gaming APU" .  Which in the end was nothing but a marketing gag, apparently...  

 

 

As for trying again, I would really like to, but I dont trust this motherboard, its extremely frickle, and I have the feeling its better not to touch the settings too much.

The suggestion of fast ram for the 2200g is intended when you are using the integrated GPU. Video memory needs to have high bandwidth. Look at the 1030 DDR4 vs GDDR5 for an example. When just used as a CPU, what I said earlier applies.

 

Also, did you ever try with the 3070 or with low res/settings? The 1060 is a somewhat slow pairing for the 3600, and you need to reach somewhat high fps to really see a difference. Maybe also check 1% lows if you do try again.