Router/WiFi Extender/Mesh Wifi

[Sachin Patel]

Hi,

 

I am looking upgrade my wifi system, at the moment I am using the modem that my internet provider (TalkTalk UK) with an Netgear Extender EX2700. I have researched Mesh WiFi and getting a better router that 'takes over' the orginal modems function and come up with lot of option. I personally was looking in £150 range for any improvement but can see a max of £200 depends on spec and future proof.  I was suggested website below but its a little steep,

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-wireless-satellite-extender/dp/B01N4F1192/ref=sr_1_9?crid=21Q55MNV8OZP6&dchild=1&keywords=netgear+extender&qid=1613769178&sprefix=netgear+ex%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-9

 

My Problem:

- there are more than 20+ devices on the wifi network including smart tvs, alexas, laptops, etc

- signal is weak upstairs 

- i pay for 70mbs and as my house is an older one and electric not updated, I don't have ethernet port or wire coming upstairs to connect to extender so acts as a repeater

- I looked into what frequency my wifi was on and matched with other peoples wifi near me so there is interference there but not really sure how to interpret data tbh and how to chnage what channel my 2.5+5 GHz runs on

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can improve it? Any suggest of alternative or comparison tables that I can view myself?

 

 

 

[GhostRoadieBL]

1 hour ago, Sachin Patel said:

I personally was looking in £150 range for any improvement but can see a max of £200 depends on spec and future proof. 

My Problem:

- there are more than 20+ devices on the wifi network including smart tvs, alexas, laptops, etc

- signal is weak upstairs 

- i pay for 70mbs and as my house is an older one and electric not updated, I don't have ethernet port or wire coming upstairs to connect to extender so acts as a repeater

- I looked into what frequency my wifi was on and matched with other peoples wifi near me so there is interference there but not really sure how to interpret data tbh and how to chnage what channel my 2.5+5 GHz runs on

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can improve it? Any suggest of alternative or comparison tables that I can view myself?

let's start with fixing the channel your wifi is on as that's the cheapest and easiest option. 

There's apps like https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.farproc.wifi.analyzer&hl=en_US&gl=US Wifi Analyzer which will display all the wifi signals in the area and what channels they are on. 

 

going to look like this, numbers on the bottom are the wifi channels which you can set in your router. basically try to find a channel where the fewest other networks are on.

in your router's settings (when you log into it through http://192.168._._ which is the router's IP address) you should find a channel setting in the same place you change the network name (if your router allows you to) Other options you may find are "Band" which can usually be set to 80, 40, 20 or something similar to that name, for a highly dense area of networks you should try to go with as low a number as available to keep the signal your router is sending crossing over the least number of other networks. 

 

The Netgear setup is very expensive for your use case as it is using wifi6, the newest standard which only the newest devices can utilize properly, everything else will be on AC or N wifi which has been the standard for years and much cheaper to put into wireless devices. 

The speed of wifi6 is fantastic but won't be noticeable with 70mbps internet, if you were streaming from a Plex server locally or doing a ton of wireless file moves from a new laptop (with wifi6) to a NAS then it's probably going to be worth it. 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-Zenwifi-AC1500-Whole-Home-System/dp/B08HNDJ1Y6/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=mesh+wifi&qid=1613774353&s=computers&sr=1-13

This setup will give you the same coverage without the extra wifi6 premium you don't actually need. 

 

as for setting them up, the access points communicate wirelessly on a "hidden" network so when you set them up you should setup the first one which plugs into your modem from the isp. Setup the network and see where the signal limit is and be sure to connect the addon one within that signal area, further away or weaker the signal the slower the access points can talk to each other and you'll have good signal but bad speed. 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AUSUS-Zenwifi-AC1500-Whole-Home-System/dp/B08HNHSLTM/ref=sr_1_23?dchild=1&keywords=mesh+wifi&qid=1613774353&s=computers&sr=1-23

for a little more there is a 3 unit set which is probably overkill but still within the budget and guarantees a strong signal as the units can hop signal from one to the next if the signal strength of 2 isn't enough to cover the whole space or there is a concrete wall or too much distance between the devices to get a strong signal. I don't think this is necessary for your situation if the current ISP supplied wifi can barely get signal where you need it, the 2-pack will be more than enough to cover. 

 

as per number of devices, that's more about picking which network which device should be on, for instance a wireless printer, alexa, smart lights etc should be on the 2.4ghz wifi network rather than the 5ghz network as they will never use the extra speed. Laptops, smart TVs, game consoles etc should be on the 5ghz network for the higher transfer speed for streaming video.

 

hope this helps

[Falcon1986]

16 hours ago, Sachin Patel said:

I am looking upgrade my wifi system

1. Run the wireless survey as @GhostRoadieBLsuggested.
2. Most people don't realize that they can still run ethernet to supply 1-2 APs, but believe it requires drilling holes or running cables through walls. Rental units might be the exception, but you can usually tack cables along the ceiling/wall edge or wall/floor edge and establish a neat cable run.

[Sachin Patel]

On 2/19/2021 at 11:15 PM, GhostRoadieBL said:

let's start with fixing the channel your wifi is on as that's the cheapest and easiest option. 

There's apps like https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.farproc.wifi.analyzer&hl=en_US&gl=US Wifi Analyzer which will display all the wifi signals in the area and what channels they are on. 

 

going to look like this, numbers on the bottom are the wifi channels which you can set in your router. basically try to find a channel where the fewest other networks are on.

in your router's settings (when you log into it through http://192.168._._ which is the router's IP address) you should find a channel setting in the same place you change the network name (if your router allows you to) Other options you may find are "Band" which can usually be set to 80, 40, 20 or something similar to that name, for a highly dense area of networks you should try to go with as low a number as available to keep the signal your router is sending crossing over the least number of other networks. 

 

The Netgear setup is very expensive for your use case as it is using wifi6, the newest standard which only the newest devices can utilize properly, everything else will be on AC or N wifi which has been the standard for years and much cheaper to put into wireless devices. 

The speed of wifi6 is fantastic but won't be noticeable with 70mbps internet, if you were streaming from a Plex server locally or doing a ton of wireless file moves from a new laptop (with wifi6) to a NAS then it's probably going to be worth it. 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-Zenwifi-AC1500-Whole-Home-System/dp/B08HNDJ1Y6/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=mesh+wifi&qid=1613774353&s=computers&sr=1-13

This setup will give you the same coverage without the extra wifi6 premium you don't actually need. 

 

as for setting them up, the access points communicate wirelessly on a "hidden" network so when you set them up you should setup the first one which plugs into your modem from the isp. Setup the network and see where the signal limit is and be sure to connect the addon one within that signal area, further away or weaker the signal the slower the access points can talk to each other and you'll have good signal but bad speed. 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AUSUS-Zenwifi-AC1500-Whole-Home-System/dp/B08HNHSLTM/ref=sr_1_23?dchild=1&keywords=mesh+wifi&qid=1613774353&s=computers&sr=1-23

for a little more there is a 3 unit set which is probably overkill but still within the budget and guarantees a strong signal as the units can hop signal from one to the next if the signal strength of 2 isn't enough to cover the whole space or there is a concrete wall or too much distance between the devices to get a strong signal. I don't think this is necessary for your situation if the current ISP supplied wifi can barely get signal where you need it, the 2-pack will be more than enough to cover. 

 

as per number of devices, that's more about picking which network which device should be on, for instance a wireless printer, alexa, smart lights etc should be on the 2.4ghz wifi network rather than the 5ghz network as they will never use the extra speed. Laptops, smart TVs, game consoles etc should be on the 5ghz network for the higher transfer speed for streaming video.

 

hope this helps

Hi, this was very useful. I have attempted to change the channel but had some slight difficulties but atm the moment I am testing that out and seeing if that work. 

 

Thanks for the other suggestions, I will keep them in mind when making my choice. I think I was looking at WiFi 6 as that what was suggest and what is future proof but I understand your point that it may not be compabilibe with most of my devices anyways. Plus in future they be more updates. 

[Sachin Patel]

On 2/20/2021 at 1:32 PM, Falcon1986 said:

1. Run the wireless survey as @GhostRoadieBLsuggested.
2. Most people don't realize that they can still run ethernet to supply 1-2 APs, but believe it requires drilling holes or running cables through walls. Rental units might be the exception, but you can usually tack cables along the ceiling/wall edge or wall/floor edge and establish a neat cable run.

Hi, one of the first things I was thinking was drilling though walls and follow edges but my house has concrete and/or cavity walls in most places and will be expensive and hard to drill to get cable down. I measured the intended area between the router and extender it would be ~4m+ depending how i implement it. 

[Falcon1986]

1 hour ago, Sachin Patel said:

Hi, one of the first things I was thinking was drilling though walls and follow edges but my house has concrete and/or cavity walls in most places and will be expensive and hard to drill to get cable down. I measured the intended area between the router and extender it would be ~4m+ depending how i implement it. 

I understand what you're facing because I too live in a region of the world where the house construction is similar. But that's why I chose to run cables within cable conduit that doubles as decorative molding along the wall/ceiling edge.

 

I still did a bit of drilling myself through concrete and wood but that wasn't difficult.

[Sachin Patel]

On 2/19/2021 at 11:15 PM, GhostRoadieBL said:

let's start with fixing the channel your wifi is on as that's the cheapest and easiest option. 

There's apps like https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.farproc.wifi.analyzer&hl=en_US&gl=US Wifi Analyzer which will display all the wifi signals in the area and what channels they are on. 

 

going to look like this, numbers on the bottom are the wifi channels which you can set in your router. basically try to find a channel where the fewest other networks are on.

in your router's settings (when you log into it through http://192.168._._ which is the router's IP address) you should find a channel setting in the same place you change the network name (if your router allows you to) Other options you may find are "Band" which can usually be set to 80, 40, 20 or something similar to that name, for a highly dense area of networks you should try to go with as low a number as available to keep the signal your router is sending crossing over the least number of other networks. 

 

The Netgear setup is very expensive for your use case as it is using wifi6, the newest standard which only the newest devices can utilize properly, everything else will be on AC or N wifi which has been the standard for years and much cheaper to put into wireless devices. 

The speed of wifi6 is fantastic but won't be noticeable with 70mbps internet, if you were streaming from a Plex server locally or doing a ton of wireless file moves from a new laptop (with wifi6) to a NAS then it's probably going to be worth it. 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-Zenwifi-AC1500-Whole-Home-System/dp/B08HNDJ1Y6/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=mesh+wifi&qid=1613774353&s=computers&sr=1-13

This setup will give you the same coverage without the extra wifi6 premium you don't actually need. 

 

as for setting them up, the access points communicate wirelessly on a "hidden" network so when you set them up you should setup the first one which plugs into your modem from the isp. Setup the network and see where the signal limit is and be sure to connect the addon one within that signal area, further away or weaker the signal the slower the access points can talk to each other and you'll have good signal but bad speed. 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AUSUS-Zenwifi-AC1500-Whole-Home-System/dp/B08HNHSLTM/ref=sr_1_23?dchild=1&keywords=mesh+wifi&qid=1613774353&s=computers&sr=1-23

for a little more there is a 3 unit set which is probably overkill but still within the budget and guarantees a strong signal as the units can hop signal from one to the next if the signal strength of 2 isn't enough to cover the whole space or there is a concrete wall or too much distance between the devices to get a strong signal. I don't think this is necessary for your situation if the current ISP supplied wifi can barely get signal where you need it, the 2-pack will be more than enough to cover. 

 

as per number of devices, that's more about picking which network which device should be on, for instance a wireless printer, alexa, smart lights etc should be on the 2.4ghz wifi network rather than the 5ghz network as they will never use the extra speed. Laptops, smart TVs, game consoles etc should be on the 5ghz network for the higher transfer speed for streaming video.

 

hope this helps

Sorry, another question

 

Do channel auto change even if that was not set in the ISP settings, as when I checked couple months ago it was on 33 (everyone was on this) and now its one 1 (no one else is on this) for the 2.4GHz. I didn't change it to 1 but when I did my test it did not interfer with other WiFis in my neighbourhood. Plus when went to change in my settings it was on 1 already and not on AUTO, just wanted to know so I can see if it may change in future and starts interfering again. 

 

Another question involves auto switching to the network with the best signal. For example, my 2.4GHz and 5GHz running on same name, but if I was in the back of the house then would device switch to 2.4GHz cause it has a better signal as has larger range. If I changed the name so 5GHz has own name would this be benefical or as signal is shorter it won't be useful to do this. 

Or if I did this and brought a mesh wifi/router/etc. would this be more benefical even if it cuts speed by half if dont use a lan cable. 

[GhostRoadieBL]

14 minutes ago, Sachin Patel said:

Do channel auto change even if that was not set in the ISP settings, as when I checked couple months ago it was on 33 (everyone was on this) and now its one 1 (no one else is on this) for the 2.4GHz. I didn't change it to 1 but when I did my test it did not interfer with other WiFis in my neighbourhood. Plus when went to change in my settings it was on 1 already and not on AUTO, just wanted to know so I can see if it may change in future and starts interfering again. 

 

Another question involves auto switching to the network with the best signal. For example, my 2.4GHz and 5GHz running on same name, but if I was in the back of the house then would device switch to 2.4GHz cause it has a better signal as has larger range. If I changed the name so 5GHz has own name would this be benefical or as signal is shorter it won't be useful to do this. 

Or if I did this and brought a mesh wifi/router/etc. would this be more benefical even if it cuts speed by half if dont use a lan cable. 

Auto Change no, auto set yes but only once and typically in the worst section of frequencies. Some routers set this after doing a wifi survey but it's fairly rare. 

 

the second question has to do with roaming, ideal case is you have 2 different network names for the 2.4 and 5ghz and have your device auto connect to both networks. depending on how deep your settings go you can set a minimum signal before change but that's in the higher end wireless access points and should be available in every mesh system (however since the mesh acts like one big network it does it on its own)

 

what do you mean by cuts the speed by half if you don't use a lan cable? 

a lan cable connection just increases the size of the pipe, not the amount of stuff going through it. So if your primary use is internet at 70mb/s into the network it won't make a speed difference between 1000mb/s capable or 700mb/s 5ghz or 300mb/s 2.4ghz networks. Don't worry about that side of things, network coverage is what matters until you step into the gigabit fibre internet tiers where hardline is king. 

[Sachin Patel]

On 2/23/2021 at 3:42 PM, Falcon1986 said:

I understand what you're facing because I too live in a region of the world where the house construction is similar. But that's why I chose to run cables within cable conduit that doubles as decorative molding along the wall/ceiling edge.

 

I still did a bit of drilling myself through concrete and wood but that wasn't difficult.

Ahh cheers for that advice, I didn't think of using cable conduits or similar items. 

[Sachin Patel]

18 hours ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

Auto Change no, auto set yes but only once and typically in the worst section of frequencies. Some routers set this after doing a wifi survey but it's fairly rare. 

 

the second question has to do with roaming, ideal case is you have 2 different network names for the 2.4 and 5ghz and have your device auto connect to both networks. depending on how deep your settings go you can set a minimum signal before change but that's in the higher end wireless access points and should be available in every mesh system (however since the mesh acts like one big network it does it on its own)

 

what do you mean by cuts the speed by half if you don't use a lan cable? 

a lan cable connection just increases the size of the pipe, not the amount of stuff going through it. So if your primary use is internet at 70mb/s into the network it won't make a speed difference between 1000mb/s capable or 700mb/s 5ghz or 300mb/s 2.4ghz networks. Don't worry about that side of things, network coverage is what matters until you step into the gigabit fibre internet tiers where hardline is king. 

Okay I see, I just leave the name, just thought I might ask to see if it maybe benefical to me. 

 

I did change my channel and when I went to check it today morning it has changed again even when it was on auto. However after talking to a mate, he said some providers 'packet reset' thus why it may changed as I changed the 2.4GHz to ch 1 (which stayed on it day after) but changed 5GHz to ch100 and it went back to 44 where everyone else is. 

[Falcon1986]

6 minutes ago, Sachin Patel said:

I did change my channel and when I went to check it today morning it has changed again even when it was on auto. However after talking to a mate, he said some providers 'packet reset' thus why it may changed as I changed the 2.4GHz to ch 1 (which stayed on it day after) but changed 5GHz to ch100 and it went back to 44 where everyone else is. 

Setting WiFi channels to auto-select tells the access point to “intelligently” guess which channel to use. Some APs do this well while others don’t. It’s all done in an effort to reduce signal overlap with your neighbours’ WiFi and avoid interference.

 

In crowded wireless zones, when set to auto, the AP will try to use a channel with the lowest signal from your neighbours (i.e. even if there is overlap). By doing this, there should still be less interference. The 2.4GHz frequency is notorius for frequent overlap as the spectrum can only accommodate 3 non-overlapping signals at 20MHz bandwith. That falls to about 2 non-overlapping signals if you choose to use 40MHz bandwidth, which should never occur if you’re in a crowded WiFi neighbourhood. There is less chance of overlap on the 5GHz frequency because there are much more channels and wider bandwidths to use. It doesn’t mean that overlap can’t happen; you still have to analyze the spectrum to make sure.

[Sachin Patel]

51 minutes ago, Falcon1986 said:

Setting WiFi channels to auto-select tells the access point to “intelligently” guess which channel to use. Some APs do this well while others don’t. It’s all done in an effort to reduce signal overlap with your neighbours’ WiFi and avoid interference.

 

In crowded wireless zones, when set to auto, the AP will try to use a channel with the lowest signal from your neighbours (i.e. even if there is overlap). By doing this, there should still be less interference. The 2.4GHz frequency is notorius for frequent overlap as the spectrum can only accommodate 3 non-overlapping signals at 20MHz bandwith. That falls to about 2 non-overlapping signals if you choose to use 40MHz bandwidth, which should never occur if you’re in a crowded WiFi neighbourhood. There is less chance of overlap on the 5GHz frequency because there are much more channels and wider bandwidths to use. It doesn’t mean that overlap can’t happen; you still have to analyze the spectrum to make sure.

Okay I see, this makes sense. 

 

I test check and analyse it over next week or so and see to get a better understanding on whats happening. 

 

I have decided to go with: https://www.amazon.co.uk/AUSUS-Zenwifi-AC1500-Whole-Home-System/dp/B08HNHSLTM/ref=sr_1_23?dchild=1&keywords=mesh+wifi&qid=1613774353&s=computers&sr=1-23

 

that @GhostRoadieBL suggest. I think that the three would be benefical with spacing as I was thinking of putting one in the side-extension which would be a good link for the upstairs too. 

 

I like to thank both of you for your help. I appreciate it .

 

[Sachin Patel]

I like to thank both of you (@Falcon1986 and @GhostRoadieBL) for your help. I set the ASUS ZenWiFi up yesterday and heard no complaint from my sis or mum today. Smooth sailing now. Plus I am getting 70mbps in my room now which I have never got before so that is great no more hotspotting. Probs gonna move it node around to see where it works best but all in all I am happy with everything.